Boost hesitation and intermittent lack of power

[LeeT5]

Right you lot!

I have had the following fault code consistently reoccurring for the last 4 months with no symptoms: ECM6805.
Turbo was replaced (as you all know) by the dealer a few months ago because my turbo seals were knackered and the car was burning tons of oil. After the Turbo was replaced I noticed the oil consumption was notably less and no more blue smoke off throttle (mainly after driving down a long hill). Boost was all good and seeing stable peak of around 15-16psi. Sweet!

However, now I'm also getting fault code ECM130A and ECM6805. Now the symptoms are fluctuating base idle when warmed up, but it doesn't fluctuate all the time, mainly when you restart the car after its been switched off for 30 minutes or so. The idle is jumping around all over the place, hunting and it takes about 20 seconds to calm itself down.
Also, when under hard acceleration in higher gears, ie 3rd or 4th it will "miss a beat" or jolt slightly, when boosting.

Its really beginning to get on my wick.

Before I take it to the dealer, cos that's likely at the moment, I wondered if anyway had any other ideas??

Is my MAF knackered? The TCV was replaced only last week and it has made no difference. I have cleaned the BPS and I'm unable to log any live data because my poxy DICE will not communicate with the dam car!!! :mad:

I'm at my wits end with the car at the moment cos I've been putting up with it for a while now, but the car drives 90% ok, most of the time!

Any 'constructive' answers please would be much appreciated.

[V70 Graham]

It could well be the MAF Lee, I'm having fun as we speak.

Take it out of its housing and give it a clean, I used 'Electrical cleaner' from Halfords @ £3.49 a can you can use half a can without bankrupting yourself, give it a good squirt from 8" or so and then let it dry out, repeat a couple of times, don't forget the temperature sensor on the side.

[stribo]

Sounds like it could be a MAF problem, but as you know mate, there are so many sensors without getting it plugged in, it's hard to pinpoint which one is playing up.

[stribo]

It could well be the MAF Lee, I'm having fun as we speak.

Take it out of its housing and give it a clean, I used 'Electrical cleaner' from Halfords @ £3.49 a can you can use half a can without bankrupting yourself, give it a good squirt from 8" or so and then let it dry out, repeat a couple of times, don't forget the temperature sensor on the side.


oooooooooooooooh, get the Volvo Master Technician. :lol:

[V70 Graham]

oooooooooooooooh, get the Volvo Master Technician. :lol:

We all know I know very little lol but if I think what little I do know will help someone then I like to try and help out.

[stribo]

We all know I know very little lol but if I think what little I do know will help someone then I like to try and help out.

I know mate, just taking the pee.;)

[960kg]

Right you lot!

I have had the following fault code consistently reoccurring for the last 4 months with no symptoms: ECM6805.
Turbo was replaced (as you all know) by the dealer a few months ago because my turbo seals were knackered and the car was burning tons of oil. After the Turbo was replaced I noticed the oil consumption was notably less and no more blue smoke off throttle (mainly after driving down a long hill). Boost was all good and seeing stable peak of around 15-16psi. Sweet!

However, now I'm also getting fault code ECM130A and ECM6805. Now the symptoms are fluctuating base idle when warmed up, but it doesn't fluctuate all the time, mainly when you restart the car after its been switched off for 30 minutes or so. The idle is jumping around all over the place, hunting and it takes about 20 seconds to calm itself down.
Also, when under hard acceleration in higher gears, ie 3rd or 4th it will "miss a beat" or jolt slightly, when boosting.

Its really beginning to get on my wick.

Before I take it to the dealer, cos that's likely at the moment, I wondered if anyway had any other ideas??

Is my MAF knackered? The TCV was replaced only last week and it has made no difference. I have cleaned the BPS and I'm unable to log any live data because my poxy DICE will not communicate with the dam car!!! :mad:

I'm at my wits end with the car at the moment cos I've been putting up with it for a while now, but the car drives 90% ok, most of the time!

Any 'constructive' answers please would be much appreciated.

As you have changed the TCV the code may stay as you know perhaps for quite a few colds starts.....but if it doesn`t go are the hoses connected to it OK?...or are they blocked with crud etc......from a damaged turbo or otherwise?

your other code as you probably know is for an air leak so seeing as the dealer changed the turbo has he damaged the PCV nipple or anything around that area to do with the PCV system to introduce an air leak ?....other than that maybe a damaged MAF!!..........is the irregular idle the common dirty or contaminated throttle flap??

[sizzlechest]

Hi, try unplugging the MAF then taking her for a spin. It could rule out a dodgy MAF.

[M-R-P]

how old is the fuel pressure sensor on the fuel rail? I believe they can throw weird codes when they fail.

[LeeT5]

how old is the fuel pressure sensor on the fuel rail? I believe they can throw weird codes when they fail.

replaced by Volvo last year.

[Harvey]

Fuel pump or pumps as there are two in the tank,does it make any difference when you have a full tank as the second pump only works to transfer to other side ?.
The pump controller have a look at the plug & socket as they can suffer from water ingress,it's near the fuel filter.

[Harvey]

Did the 2nd DiCE not work then ?.

[LeeT5]

Fuel pump or pumps as there are two in the tank,does it make any difference when you have a full tank as the second pump only works to transfer to other side ?.
The pump controller have a look at the plug & socket as they can suffer from water ingress,it's near the fuel filter.

No difference.

[LeeT5]

Did the 2nd DiCE not work then ?.

Nope.

[LeeT5]

Hi, try unplugging the MAF then taking her for a spin. It could rule out a dodgy MAF.

You cant do that on a P2 R. It needs the info from the MAF to correctly correlate boost pressure. Running without a MAF will just make it worse and cause lack of power.

[Ric@rdo]

My car will do the same occasionally, but no errors in the ECM... I know there is a small air leak in the charge pipe. Next month I'll be replacing the TCV, the vacuum lines and the ignition coils. Already left the car with the local dealer and nothing was found.

The throttle body has been cleaned, the maf has been replaced, new spark plugs installed, new petrol filter, new timing and accessories belt fitted.

[T5RatherAmusin]

check for boost leakage dude

[Harvey]

Nope.

So it does sound like software problem then.

[LeeT5]

Update

In the last week the car has been driving better. I am now seeing 12 psi of boost and it's gets there quicker, so maybe the new TCV is adjusting itself or rather, the ECM is learning and adapting. There is also less or almost no jittering under boost. All good! However, I'm still getting crap idle once warmed up, hunting and base idle fluctuating. It doesn't do this all the time just sometimes and it's very annoying. So, looking like it's more likely to be a MAF fault at the moment.
Like I said, car is totally drive able just abit annoying when the idle starts going mental when sitting at traffic lights! As soon as I pull away, it's fine.
Going to let dealer loose on it in a couple of weeks so we'll see what they say, assuming their DICE will communicate with the car. If it don't, then it looks like it will be having a new CEM.

[JamesT5]

Lee, it's rare for you to ask others for advice on here, you're normally the guy waving all the answers at us and telling us where the garages have gone wrong. Interesting to see the opposite situation right now! :shockedbi :shifty:

[Harvey]

Lee, it's rare for you to ask others for advice on here, you're normally the guy waving all the answers at us and telling us where the garages have gone wrong. Interesting to see the opposite situation right now! :shockedbi :shifty:

The real problem Lee has is he can't get into the cars software to read the fault.

[LeeT5]

So it does sound like software problem then.

You'd think so, but I think it's the car not my DICE. after all, I know the software is ok. I have tried VIDA 2012A and 2013A. In both instances DICE communicates with the laptop and software, yet only partially communicates with the car, ie, it will tell me battery voltage and laptop will tell me which version of DICE is connected but it will not communicate with the car. Doesn't even recognise it! I'm resigned to the fact that I may be looking at a big bill soon because it will explain the issues I was having end of last year with my lights, remember??
The dealer had the car in for half a day and could not rectify the problem, even going so far as trying a brand new light switch. That fault has not been rectified as the switch is just set to DRLs on, side, on. So the lights are all the time (which I don't mind) and I was warned I may have a CEM fault.

[Harvey]

You'd think so, but I think it's the car not my DICE. after all, I know the software is ok. I have tried VIDA 2012A and 2013A. In both instances DICE communicates with the laptop and software, yet only partially communicates with the car, ie, it will tell me battery voltage and laptop will tell me which version of DICE is connected but it will not communicate with the car. Doesn't even recognise it! I'm resigned to the fact that I may be looking at a big bill soon because it will explain the issues I was having end of last year with my lights, remember??
The dealer had the car in for half a day and could not rectify the problem, even going so far as trying a brand new light switch. That fault has not been rectified as the switch is just set to DRLs on, side, on. So the lights are all the time (which I don't mind) and I was warned I may have a CEM fault.

I think,like you said pull it out and have a very good look at the plugs/pins around there,is the windscreen still the first one in the car or has it been changed just thinking if its leaked and let any water in,have you looked under the scuttle panel at the way the harness enters the car ,seals look good.

[LeeT5]

Lee, it's rare for you to ask others for advice on here, you're normally the guy waving all the answers at us and telling us where the garages have gone wrong. Interesting to see the opposite situation right now! :shockedbi :shifty:

What's your point James?
The point of me posting this thread is because, somebody else in the future may have similar issues - therefore, when it's finally fixed this thread will hopefully help someone else out.
As Harvey has said, I cannot communicate with my car therefore I am unable to rectify my fault(s).
I am posting because I may have missed something out! Or maybe I do have a faulty MAF and also my CEM is f*****! Either way, it's a learning curve for me and it will be fixed, sooner or later - Clearly not with a 10mm spanner and a screwdriver thou! Eh?

[LeeT5]

I think,like you said pull it out and have a very good look at the plugs/pins around there,is the windscreen still the first one in the car or has it been changed just thinking if its leaked and let any water in,have you looked under the scuttle panel at the way the harness enters the car ,seals look good.

Windscreen is original mate. I've not pulled out the CEM, it's a massive job. Mine does have the modified harness hood and therefore, most likely, not contaminated by water ingress.

[JamesT5]

What's your point James?
The point of me posting this thread is because, somebody else in the future may have similar issues - therefore, when it's finally fixed this thread will hopefully help someone else out.
As Harvey has said, I cannot communicate with my car therefore I am unable to rectify my fault(s).
I am posting because I may have missed something out! Or maybe I do have a faulty MAF and also my CEM is f*****! Either way, it's a learning curve for me and it will be fixed, sooner or later - Clearly not with a 10mm spanner and a screwdriver thou! Eh?

Woah, don't take it so personally, it was just an observation not an insult to your expertise! :hbomb: :tank:

Personally, if there is communication issues and boost problems and such like, I'm no aficionado but I'd say you're ECU might be popping it's cloggs.

[Harvey]

Woah, don't take it so personally, it was just an observation not an insult to your expertise! :hbomb: :tank:

Personally, if there is communication issues and boost problems and such like, I'm no aficionado but I'd say you're ECU might be popping it's cloggs.

The problem is the not with the engines ECM it's the CEM of the network.
If the dice can't find it then there's a real problem as the cars network can't work as it should.
The fuel pump is controlled via the network as well.

http://i1168.photobucket.com/albums/r499/harveysr/75560079-C49E-4C2A-94F3-DCBBF255DF86-7156-00000CC4AB2F5D5C_zps00445042.jpg

[stribo]

The problem is the not with the engines ECU it's the CEM of the network.

http://i1168.photobucket.com/albums/r499/harveysr/75560079-C49E-4C2A-94F3-DCBBF255DF86-7156-00000CC4AB2F5D5C_zps00445042.jpg


I'm glad they didn't pack our cars full of control modules. lol

[Harvey]

I'm glad they didn't pack our cars full of control modules. lol

Sorry the wife's car that who will have to fix then...:shockedbi

[LeeT5]

In a quest to find the culprit I removed and cleaned my Throttle module and gave it a dam good clean.
Also used a smidge of Hylomar on the gasket to ensure no air leaks.
First drive for an hour and the difference is noticeable. She idles smoother and seems to accelerate cleaner, however, after about 30 minutes the idle started to fluctuate again (slightly) and boost under load is hesitant. I am now getting correct boost pressure so I guess the new TCV is a slow learner.
So, I'm beginning to think I have either a faulty MAF or a faulty Throttle module. I think Volvo will be the best place next as I still can't get my ££££ing DICE working.

Only other thing I know need s doing desperately is the PCV system. That's for the spring.

Any thoughts?

[Sperm1980]

Hi, just my two pennies worth. At the end of last year my 2001 t5 started running like poo, stalling, poor idle etc etc throwing codes relating to MAF issues. Before then it ran perfect. Due to poor funds I bought a cheap fleabay maf. It now all works but I too have hesitant boost, poor idling et times (usually when hot) . I'm just about to get an oe maf and hopefully all should be back to normal. Looking back at past threads, maf,s on these cars are a pain and could be your problem. Hope this helps, good luck sorting it.
Cheers
Paul

[LeeT5]

Hi, just my two pennies worth. At the end of last year my 2001 t5 started running like poo, stalling, poor idle etc etc throwing codes relating to MAF issues. Before then it ran perfect. Due to poor funds I bought a cheap fleabay maf. It now all works but I too have hesitant boost, poor idling et times (usually when hot) . I'm just about to get an oe maf and hopefully all should be back to normal. Looking back at past threads, maf,s on these cars are a pain and could be your problem. Hope this helps, good luck sorting it.
Cheers
Paul

Cheers Paul. I replaced my MAF 3 years ago with a genuine Bosch unit for Volvo. Since then the car ran brilliant. I really do hope it's not the MAF again!

[JamesT5]

Great cars these but it just goes to show that even with the best kept examples, when they go bad, they go bad!

[LeeT5]

Great cars these but it just goes to show that even with the best kept examples, when they go bad, they go bad!

Not really mate, it's just a minor fault that I can't get to the bottom of yet.

[LeeT5]

Hi, just my two pennies worth. At the end of last year my 2001 t5 started running like poo, stalling, poor idle etc etc throwing codes relating to MAF issues. Before then it ran perfect. Due to poor funds I bought a cheap fleabay maf. It now all works but I too have hesitant boost, poor idling et times (usually when hot) . I'm just about to get an oe maf and hopefully all should be back to normal. Looking back at past threads, maf,s on these cars are a pain and could be your problem. Hope this helps, good luck sorting it.
Cheers
Paul

How did you get on? Did the MAF sort it?

[Rudeyboy18]

I had enough the other day of unstable idle and it miss fired hard when 6up the other day. So I got a Bosch maf and engine lights not returned, no squeel under hard boost, perfect idle 850rpm continuously and holds boost hard. I've had replaced Tcv, gaskets, Pcv , injectors, vacuum pipes, spark plugs , bought mikalor clamps, tightened everything up plus more and nothing fixed it. Yet I changed the maf and it literally vanished. So glad i did, as now I'm love my R again.

[LeeT5]

Ok, thanks.

[LeeT5]

Update:

Last week I spent sodding around with car. Not visited dealer yet (holding off). Good news is, I've eliminated TCV. I put my old (known working IPD mk1 TCV) back on and road tested. Obviously I went through the painstaking process of 'ecu learning' and it has made f*** all difference! So refitted new mk2 TCV and tried again. Same symptoms.
So, removed BSR remap and went back to oe map. The car was almost undriveable with IPD TCV. After attempting learning process 4 times, resetting ECM and deleted DTCs I still could not get the car to boost stable above 12psi. It spikes and then goes into limp mode and will not boost at all, barely 3psi at best and was so lathargic.
So, DTCs cleared, BSR remap loaded, and ECM reset. I then attempted learning process again. This time it was successful and I'm now getting peak and stable boost at 16psi.
Only thing I notice is the car will instantly come off boost when the throttle gets to a certain point and it's quite violent and jerky, if I'm approx 50% throttle.
So I'm now almost 99% certain I have either a throttle fault or, more likely, a faulty MAF.
For now the car is drive able and I only hope the ECM adapts to the TCV better over time. Clearly, the IPD TCV is a very slow learner and I will be interested in seeing how you get on Harvey with your IPD TCV.
To confirm, I have checked and checked again ALL vac hoses and turbo pipes. All are free from debris and fitted correctly. There are no splits either. The only two DTCs that kept reoccurring was ECM6805 and ECM130A.
I know from when I went to MRG my MAF readings were high but just within spec on live readings. So maybe the MAF has gone out of tolerance and the ECM is trying to adjust. Causing the intermittent fluctuating idle and harsh boost symptoms.
For now, the car is drive able so she will be going to the dealer in April for further tests.

[graemewelch]

Ive got the mk2 tcv and i had no issues what so ever with it adapting. Ive no idea is that is of any use to you. Im sure youll get it sorted soon though.

[merc85]

after reading this thread, it would seem like a maf issue :(

[960kg]

As mentioned in my previous post you may have an air leak that you have missed........being a Volvo MAF it should not be ready yet for replacement as you know!

When they replaced the turbo they may of damaged the MAF as the pic. says or damaged the PCV forcing an air leak especially where the nipple is forced into the rubber bung on the intake pipe!

The ECM-6805 still points to the TCV boost pressure fault being too much boost........perhaps when fitting the new turbo again they set the Base Boost setting to high for the ECU tolerances!

If your MAF at fault then why no indication whatsoever of a MAF code which is down among the ECM-1300`s ??

................................................

[deathrider311271]

Lee just read this thread, i hope my experience helps you out, when my car was being mapped they couldnt get the boost stable with either of the ipd tcv's so i had to get a volvo one problem solved on that front, but it didnt get rid of the hesitation and the feeling of holding back, after several hours testing it turned out my 18 month old gen volvo maf was giving odd readings for air flow, so he used the same maf your car will have, so a further £220 for the new maf and all is well, mine had no codes just the symptoms.

[stribo]

Not sure why you're using an IPD TCV mate, I replaced the one on our R with a genuine Volvo one (because the old one had done 110,000 miles), and it's as good as gold, holds boost all the way to the redline (6750 rpm)

[LeeT5]

As mentioned in my previous post you may have an air leak that you have missed........being a Volvo MAF it should not be ready yet for replacement as you know!

When they replaced the turbo they may of damaged the MAF as the pic. says or damaged the PCV forcing an air leak especially where the nipple is forced into the rubber bung on the intake pipe!

The ECM-6805 still points to the TCV boost pressure fault being too much boost........perhaps when fitting the new turbo again they set the Base Boost setting to high for the ECU tolerances!

If your MAF at fault then why no indication whatsoever of a MAF code which is down among the ECM-1300`s ??

................................................

If my VIDA/DICE worked then I would have seen this!!

My PCV is indeed in need of attention and it is on my urgent list.
I think I will be bringing that to the top of the list. Who'd a thought a blocked PCV would cause a ECM130A fault?

To clarify I do have constant DTC's of ECM6805 and ECM130A

[LeeT5]

UPDATE:

Having removed this:

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e11/LeeT5/Before5_zps836273ff.jpg (http://s36.photobucket.com/user/LeeT5/media/Before5_zps836273ff.jpg.html)

Fitting this:

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e11/LeeT5/After9_zpsbf39ff92.jpg (http://s36.photobucket.com/user/LeeT5/media/After9_zpsbf39ff92.jpg.html)
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e11/LeeT5/After5_zps629a4d3c.jpg (http://s36.photobucket.com/user/LeeT5/media/After5_zps629a4d3c.jpg.html)

general driving was improved but I still had hesitation under boost at approx 60-80% throttle. WOT seemed fine, but peak boost was only 12psi.

Now I removed my MAF a few days ago:

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e11/LeeT5/IMG_2089_zps3df48987.jpg (http://s36.photobucket.com/user/LeeT5/media/IMG_2089_zps3df48987.jpg.html)
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e11/LeeT5/IMG_2088_zps5b0e84da.jpg (http://s36.photobucket.com/user/LeeT5/media/IMG_2088_zps5b0e84da.jpg.html)

...and cleaned it using this:

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e11/LeeT5/IMG_2081_zps67cf760a.jpg (http://s36.photobucket.com/user/LeeT5/media/IMG_2081_zps67cf760a.jpg.html)
£10 off ebay. Almost impossible to buy in any shop in UK, inc Halfords.

After some research I discovered that using Carb cleaner to clean a MAF may get rid of carbon deposits, Tar, traffic grime and other airborne pollutants etc that over time, contaminate the thin MAF sensor wire and inhibit it's function - Carb cleaner ALSO leaves it's own deposits. So, that's why I bought this special MAF cleaner.
4 squirts of the stuff onto the thin wire and refitted.

The results are awesome!! Base idle improved and now normal. Smoother acceleration, smoother gear changes and now able to drive at lower revs. The best result was the boost. No hesitation at any point and peak boost now up to 15psi. This has been a significant improvement and the car now drives like it did last year. Cleaning my MAF will now become part of my annual service!

Now all I gotta do is replace my PCV system.....Thread to follow!

24631

Thank to 960KG for the VIDA photo.

[silverhorse]

RESULT Lee!!! Just had my PCV replaced. Pig of a job, but at 112k miles and still the original, it needed doing. Was well clogged.

[LeeT5]

RESULT Lee!!! Just had my PCV replaced. Pig of a job, but at 112k miles and still the original, it needed doing. Was well clogged.

Who changed it, You or a garage?

[silverhorse]

Had my local Indie do it. I had a look at what is involved with a view to doing it myself, but concluded that it is a fairly hefty job and I want it done properly. I can do some things, but I was not confident with this one. Cam seals were being done at same time and there was a lot of dismantling, so I left it to the experts!
Tech who did it says that it was quite bad, so new one should last for another 100k hopefully.

Edit. just ordered some of that MAF cleaner.

[LeeT5]

Looks like it may possibly be the MAF. I checked dtc's this morning before my 140 mile drive to MRG and I now have an extra code: ECM1300. I will see what MRG have to say, but I reckon the MAF is goosed and the PCV needs replacing (which I know).
I now have all the parts needed for PCV replacement. Just need two days clear to fit.

[LeeT5]

Still getting 3 DTCs including ECM130a and ECM 1300.

After removing my severely blocked pcv system I've now discovered my inter cooler is cracked.
That explains everything! FFS.

Watch this space.....

[Wobbly Dave]

Glad you got it sorted. MAF is a PITA.

[JamesT5]

When I had boost hesitation and intermittent lack of power my turbo popped its cloggs and the rubber hose that connects the turbo to the charge pipe was split. You may want to check that if you haven't done so already.

[LeeT5]

When I had boost hesitation and intermittent lack of power my turbo popped its cloggs and the rubber hose that connects the turbo to the charge pipe was split. You may want to check that if you haven't done so already.

Sorry James, which pipe are you talking about? Do you mean the rubber hose from the inter cooler to the OTE charge pipe?
Besides, the fault with my car is a cracked inter cooler not a split pipe.

[stribo]

I think he means the short hose between the turbo, and over the top pipe, which our cars don't have because we have the V band connector.

[JamesT5]

I think he means the short hose between the turbo, and over the top pipe, which our cars don't have because we have the V band connector.

That's the hose I was on about Steve, yes. Just a suggestion but if it's not on the R then obviously that rules it out.

[LeeT5]

Ahh, I did wonder. Yes, the V band connector is a brilliant design and never fails because of its construction. The OTE pipe goes straight into the top of the turbo.

[LeeT5]

Boost issue now resolved after 5 weeks of fault finding, smoke leak test, interrogation and a trip to local dealer.

To recap:

PCV system was blocked (which I knew about)
The following codes were all logged at some point randomly, consistently and some were intermittant too:

ECM130A
ECM6805
ECM6814
ECM262A.

Inbetween work, life, heavy downpours, trauling the net, speaking to ppl that know.....the faults were finally fixed! It took about 5-6 weeks. What a total PITA!!!

So, the faults were:

Cracked intercooler
Split pipe from Manifold to Turbo boost gauge
Blocked PCV
Leak from MAF to Turbo
Leak from TCV (red line) to Turbo.

[wezo00]

Lee,
Smoke leak test was it the best tool to find all that leaks?

[LeeT5]

Lee,
Smoke leak test was it the best tool to find all that leaks?

It's a machine not a tool but it's the quickest way to properly diagnose external leaks no matter how small!
Internal leaks you will need a mityvac tool.

[htomi]

Currently trying to find the source of the ECM 130A code myself.
No rough idle, just some light hesitation during boost.

PCV replcament done 2 months ago.
TCV hoses are fine, running the OEM Pierburg TCV unit.
IC fine, no cracks, no leaks.
Stock airbox, stock filter.

Once started started looking for possible leaks found the following:
1. Looking at the Boost Pressure sensor (connected to the IC), there is oil around and the sensor and the unit has some little movement while still bolted into its place. I assume its not normal.
The clamp at the IC side (holding the charge pipe coming from the throttle body) is not fully tightened.
The amount of oil around this area is more than just a film.

2. I was able to rotate the clamp (applying only a small force) where the upper aluminium air charge pipe connecting to the turbo. Once disconnected the pipe, discovered the O ring is split and a very small piece is missing. The rest of the O ring was still on the pipe.
At this point, I got really surprised as seen my mechanic buddy tightening the clamp once finished with the PCV replacement. Also before we put back the alu charge pipe I did check the O ring and it was definitely in one piece.

I assume the once the clamp is tightened, then there is no way that this can be rotated by hand at all. Right?

My second concern is the boost pressure sensor. As said it has a very little movement. Would it be vise to replace this too? (I hate wasting money... )

[M-R-P]

Replace the bps as it's a service part in some ways - like a lambda or thermostat. Oil around any connecting point in the charge air system is a classic sign of leaking boost.
Personally, I'd have the lot off, check the pipes for splits and remake all the connections with new, quality jubilee clips.

[LeeT5]

Currently trying to find the source of the ECM 130A code myself.
No rough idle, just some light hesitation during boost.

PCV replcament done 2 months ago.
TCV hoses are fine, running the OEM Pierburg TCV unit.
IC fine, no cracks, no leaks.
Stock airbox, stock filter.

Once started started looking for possible leaks found the following:
1. Looking at the Boost Pressure sensor (connected to the IC), there is oil around and the sensor and the unit has some little movement while still bolted into its place. I assume its not normal.
The clamp at the IC side (holding the charge pipe coming from the throttle body) is not fully tightened.
The amount of oil around this area is more than just a film.

2. I was able to rotate the clamp (applying only a small force) where the upper aluminium air charge pipe connecting to the turbo. Once disconnected the pipe, discovered the O ring is split and a very small piece is missing. The rest of the O ring was still on the pipe.
At this point, I got really surprised as seen my mechanic buddy tightening the clamp once finished with the PCV replacement. Also before we put back the alu charge pipe I did check the O ring and it was definitely in one piece.

I assume the once the clamp is tightened, then there is no way that this can be rotated by hand at all. Right?

My second concern is the boost pressure sensor. As said it has a very little movement. Would it be vise to replace this too? (I hate wasting money... )

Have you replaced the two 'one way valves' in the vacuum tubing? One under the plenum and the other is right side of the block (as you face the engine). You'll need to remove the MAF hose and airbox to access both. Remove the OTE pipe and the plastic injector rail cover and then the dog can see the rabbit ;)
If either of these valves leak, they will cause a boost leak and ECM130 fault code.

Are you 100% sure your IC is not cracked? Mine was cracked underneath the BPS and the crack was very hard to see until the plastic end chamber was cleaned using carb cleaner and a rag.

Oily residue around the BPS indicates a leak. As pressure increases the crack/split O ring will allow pressure to escape and the car will not meet target boost. The ECM will then try to compensate. If boost pressure is allowed to escape suddenly, as in a crack that opens up, you'll see a boost spike on the gauge quickly followed by lack of boost. As the fault is sporadic and not permanent, you won't get an EML but you will get a fault code.

If you want my advice htomi, I would do the following:

1. Remove the MAF to turbo pipe and inspect for cracking plastic at the turbo end (Where the jubilee clamp goes on). Any plastic missing or if it feels brittle or hard - Replace the entire pipe. They are not expensive. Also any residue around the PCT nipple indicates a leak. Replace the entire MAF to turbo pipe and clean the PCT with Carb cleaner and a stiff small brush.

2. Remove the BPS and replace with a new sensor #31355463. You cannot buy the O ring alone, Volvo do not sell it. Besides, they clog up with carbon residue over time. £91.20 inc vat. Make sure you get a new screw also as the old ones tend to rust and are difficult to access with a torqs and easy to round off.

3. Replace the two 'one way valves' in the vac lines. Volvo sell them but I can't find the part#. They are about £16 ea. <<<< These do not show on a smoke leak test and will cause MAF codes and will give you symptoms of low or no boost>>>>

4. The OTE clamp is available from Volvo. If the thread on the clamp is damaged, get a new one. The trick with the OTE clamp and seal is to obviously, check that the O ring is not damaged (as you did). Clean and lubricate with a smear of Vaseline then carefully push home the OTE pipe. The reason for the vaseline is to prevent damage to the O ring when pressing into the Turbo The Clamp is the last thing to be tightened, so make sure all the other fittings are tight. Tighten the clamp ensuring it is properly home. It does not need to be over tight but when tight, the two ends of the clamp virtually meet.
There is absolutely no requirement to try and twist it. You physically won't be able to once tightened!

Once you've done this, clear fault codes and test car. You'll need to drive for about 50 miles with 2/3 switch on/off cycles and varying degrees of driving gentle and hard. Then re read the fault codes.
If the fault code ECM130* comes back then you'll need a smoke leak test to eliminate any further leaks.

Good luck!

[LeeT5]

Replace the bps as it's a service part in some ways - like a lambda or thermostat. Oil around any connecting point in the charge air system is a classic sign of leaking boost.
Personally, I'd have the lot off, check the pipes for splits and remake all the connections with new, quality jubilee clips.

:stupid:

[htomi]

Thanks Lee!

1. I haven't replaced the one way valves yet.

Looking @ the us site, someone posted the 1275226 as part number. It looks the same as the one on the car, however it is listed as S40 part.
http://forums.swedespeed.com/showthread.php?238028-Hot-Tip-For-Those-Doing-PCV-and-or-EVAP-Service-On-Their-Cars
As mentioned on the US site, for our engine Volvo sells the hose and valves as a kit.
In case if someone interested: Part number: 30757307 ; 30622238

I'll call the local dealership and order the one way valves.

2. BPS+ bolt, OTE O ring, new clamp has been ordered. Expecting these to arrive @ Thursday.

part numbers as follows:

Boost Pressure Sensor: 31355463
Boost Pressure Sensor Bolt: 986049
OTE Pipe O ring: 983891
OTE Pipe Clamp (V band): 983322


I'll check again for a crack around the BPS.

Thanks for the tips!

[LeeT5]

Thanks Lee!

1. I haven't replaced the one way valves yet.

Looking @ the us site, someone posted the 1275226 as part number. It looks the same as the one on the car, however it is listed as S40 part.
http://forums.swedespeed.com/showthread.php?238028-Hot-Tip-For-Those-Doing-PCV-and-or-EVAP-Service-On-Their-Cars
As mentioned on the US site, for our engine Volvo sells the hose and valves as a kit.
In case if someone interested: Part number: 30757307 ; 30622238

I'll call the local dealership and order the one way valves.

2. BPS+ bolt, OTE O ring, new clamp has been ordered. Expecting these to arrive @ Thursday.

part numbers as follows:

Boost Pressure Sensor: 31355463
Boost Pressure Sensor Bolt: 986049
OTE Pipe O ring: 983891
OTE Pipe Clamp (V band): 983322


I'll check again for a crack around the BPS.

Thanks for the tips!

The hose and valve kit from Volvo is bloody expensive, circa £60!! Just get the one way valves and be very careful with the hose when you replace. You can afford to cut about a 1/4" off the hose if they split on the edge but no more!

The crack on my IC was below the BPS and around the neck of the outlet port....

31031

...as you can see, I was adding tension to the neck to open up the crack so you can see it. If I let go, the crack closed up and was almost impossible to see. The tell tale sign was the oil vapor misting and collecting around the area of the crack.
You may have to put tension on the inlet/outlet port necks to see if any cracks are present. Access is difficult on the Inlet port, so please take your time and be ultra eagle eyed. You seriously don't want to miss a crack on the IC, otherwise you'll be looking at months of pain trying to diagnose the fault.

I strongly advise a smoke leak test at your local Main dealer!! :B_thumb: It's only 1 hours labour and my dealer found 4 leaks when they did my car and that was AFTER I replaced my IC! It will also confirm your system is 'Leak free' and 'Air tight'!

AH HA!!

I found the valves I fitted. Bought them from Mercedes Dealer...

31032

Part# MA000 431 61 07 ...£3.95 ea

[htomi]

Thanks again Lee! When I inspected the area, I haven't seen such cracks at the IC side. As said above, the BPS has some unusual movement in its place ( while still bolted) and seems to me the oil was coming out at the top of the outlet port where the sensor is connected. Anyway, I'll check again possibly tonight and report back.
One way valves ordered.
In case if this not solves the problem, my buddy who owns a mechanic shop has a smoke leak tester so it can be done there. I'd like to avoid to go to the dealer as those guys are useless.

[Gold 'N' Brown]

Just a wee comment on the 1 way valves....

Lee, there was a topic - way back - with some chat about the valves, and I think it was you who mentioned the Mercedes items back then. Then there was a comment from someone about preferring to use genuine Volvo items as the Merc parts may not be as good quality. I recently bought the valves from Rufe and what I got looked the same as what you have pictured above (white valves). Now I'm no expert on such matters, and perhaps functionally they are every bit as good, but I just couldn't help but feel that the valves I've just fitted seemed of a lesser quality than the originals (which FYI were black on one half, grey on the other). They just don't feel as sturdy.

So getting to the point, if something like those Merc valves are available at a better price than the Volvo ones then this is one example where sticking to genuine OE Volvo parts is perhaps not of any benefit.

[htomi]

TBH, I haven't even asked for the price of the 1275226 Volvo Valves. Based on the US price it comes around £17 - €18 per piece. The Merc part is cheaper.
Just went back to Lee's own thread (LeeT5's V70R Project) and at page 6 he replaced the Merc's valve with the Volvo one ;)

[LeeT5]

Just a wee comment on the 1 way valves....

Lee, there was a topic - way back - with some chat about the valves, and I think it was you who mentioned the Mercedes items back then. Then there was a comment from someone about preferring to use genuine Volvo items as the Merc parts may not be as good quality. I recently bought the valves from Rufe and what I got looked the same as what you have pictured above (white valves). Now I'm no expert on such matters, and perhaps functionally they are every bit as good, but I just couldn't help but feel that the valves I've just fitted seemed of a lesser quality than the originals (which FYI were black on one half, grey on the other). They just don't feel as sturdy.

So getting to the point, if something like those Merc valves are available at a better price than the Volvo ones then this is one example where sticking to genuine OE Volvo parts is perhaps not of any benefit.

I agree with you on the quality, my OE ones were black and cream (I guess, originally white but go off white with age....but not grey). The ones I bought from Mercedes did seem slightly smaller but they work absolutely fine.

Volvo don't make these one way valves, but the OE ones do have a part# on them.

One would hope that the genuine part supplied from Volvo would be them same or better quality than original. I guess Volvo deem these ones perfectly adequate and with advances in technology, things do get smaller.

[LeeT5]

TBH, I haven't even asked for the price of the 1275226 Volvo Valves. Based on the US price it comes around £17 - €18 per piece. The Merc part is cheaper.
Just went back to Lee's own thread (LeeT5's V70R Project) and at page 6 he replaced the Merc's valve with the Volvo one ;)

Oh yes, I did indeed! Forgot about that. They were IIRC about £16 each.

[kmb]

I fancy changing those valves as a serviceable part on my 850... I've already done the BCS and all vacuum lines.

Are those valves (#MA000 431 61 07) the same as the ones on the 850 T5?

I've seen where one of them is i.e. right hand side of the radiator as you look at the car - where is the other one, if there are also 2 on the 850?

[LeeT5]

I fancy changing those valves as a serviceable part on my 850... I've already done the BCS and all vacuum lines.

Are those valves (#MA000 431 61 07) the same as the ones on the 850 T5?

I've seen where one of them is i.e. right hand side of the radiator as you look at the car - where is the other one, if there are also 2 on the 850?

No idea on an 850.

The valves will be the same.

[LeeT5]

genuine part# for Volvo one way valves is 9485451... £16.80 ea plus vat.

[htomi]

genuine part# for Volvo one way valves is 9485451... £16.80 ea plus vat.
Is this the same as the 1275226?

[LeeT5]

Is this the same as the 1275226?

Nope, obviously the number is different mate ;)

[htomi]

:) Ok, I'll called the dealer and told them to order 9485451 valve (2x).

[htomi]

Update.

Took out the BPS, it seems there are no cracks around. At least I can't find any. It looks like the BPS O ring is aged and the oil was weeping out of the outlet port where the sensor is connected.
Also removed the one way valves. The one closer to the turbo is definitely failed. Blowing trough opposite the flow direction, it leaks. The second one closer to the intake manifold seems still holding off fine. As ordered 2 valves, both will be replaced. While I cannot see any cracks on the rubber hoses, still leaning towards to replace some, due to those look aged from outside. The rest of the hoses are fine.

Made a silly mistake. Didn't take any note about the flow direction when I removed the valve closer to the turbo.
Looking at the picture attached. Can you confirm the flow direction is correct?

31033

[LeeT5]

Update.

Took out the BPS, it seems there are no cracks around. At least I can't find any. It looks like the BPS O ring is aged and the oil was weeping out of the outlet port where the sensor is connected.
Also removed the one way valves. The one closer to the turbo is definitely failed. Blowing trough opposite the flow direction, it leaks. The second one closer to the intake manifold seems still holding off fine. As ordered 2 valves, both will be replaced. While I cannot see any cracks on the rubber hoses, still leaning towards to replace some, due to those look aged from outside. The rest of the hoses are fine.

Made a silly mistake. Didn't take any note about the flow direction when I removed the valve closer to the turbo.
Looking at the picture attached. Can you confirm the flow direction is correct?

31033

As per the picture mate ;)

Flow should be towards the Turbo and towards the manifold.

[htomi]

Thanks Lee!

[kmb]

Lee - Why did you move away from the Mercedes one way valves to the Volvo ones?

[LeeT5]

Lee - Why did you move away from the Mercedes one way valves to the Volvo ones?

...Because the Volvo ones were more manly.

[Gold 'N' Brown]

I recently bought the valves from Rufe and what I got looked the same as what you have pictured above (white valves). Now I'm no expert on such matters, and perhaps functionally they are every bit as good, but I just couldn't help but feel that the valves I've just fitted seemed of a lesser quality than the originals (which FYI were black on one half, grey on the other). They just don't feel as sturdy.



I agree with you on the quality, my OE ones were black and cream (I guess, originally white but go off white with age....but not grey).

Just for the record, I must point out that I was mistaken on the colour (piss poor memory). My original ones were all one colour, which was a creamy beige. The new ones from Rufe are black on one half and white on the other.

[htomi]

I got the same black & white yesterday.

[htomi]

Finally the car is back on the road. Checked after a 20-25 miles test drive. No errors/DTCs
Slight hesitation is now definitely gone.
31039
List of failed parts:
1. One of the one-way valves was slightly leaking
2. Vaccum lines were aged and weak (on the one way boost circle)
3. Boost pressure sensor O ring aged
4. OTE pipe O ring damaged
5. V band clamp needed a replacement as it got loose.

Replaced parts:

One way valve (2)
Vacuum lines on the one way circle ( ended up using stronger & thicker hoses with the same inside diameter) + jubilee clips
Boost Pressure sensor
New O ring for the OTE pipe
New V band clamp.


Part numbers as follows:

Boost Pressure Sensor: 31355463
Boost Pressure Sensor Bolt: 986049
One-way valve (black & white) 9485451
OTE Pipe O ring: 983891
OTE Pipe Clamp (V band): 983322


I did 99% of the work myself, only the V clamp has been installed by my buddy mechanic. ( I lost my patient with this f** thing)

@LeeT5 & M-R-P
Thanks for all the help, much appreciated!

[LeeT5]

V band clamps are easy when you've had them on and off a few times. There's a certain knack to it.

[LeeT5]

Does the car drive nicer, feel stronger and more responsive?

[htomi]

Does the car drive nicer, feel stronger and more responsive?

Absolutely! Yesterday evening went for a longer drive (60 miles) and it felt more responsive, stronger. Overall the acceleration is smooth across the entire rev range and the car feels quicker.
The only concern remains, the 3rd gear 6100 rpm end limit in manual mode. I've asked this in another topic, however no definitive answers received yet.

Here is what I found on the us forum:
http://forums.swedespeed.com/showthread.php?25084-Torque-power-reductions-for-GT-models-and-SAEJ1349

The GT engine is tuned to deliver less power throughout the rev range. Volvo claims it will produce 300hp at 6000rpm except for the conflicting claim of max torque of 258lb-ft (it would take a tad over 6100rpm to get 300hp from 258lb-ft ). However, the entire area under the horsepower versus rpm curve is what I'm referring to. Here there is a substantial difference between the 6MT and the GT. And don't forget that torque is further limited to something around 240-245lb-ft in 1st and 2nd gears in the GT, so this is a hidden power limitation that is not disclosed to customers in their literature. Not only will peak HP be something around 275hp in 1st and 2nd, but the entire area under the power vs rpm curve is even that much lower. When you finally get to 3rd gear and up so you can experience the 258lb-ft, you of course find out that it is limited to about 5800rpm -- hence there is no case in which you can ever experience 300hp in the GT cars.

[LeeT5]

Absolutely! Yesterday evening went for a longer drive (60 miles) and it felt more responsive, stronger. Overall the acceleration is smooth across the entire rev range and the car feels quicker.
The only concern remains, the 3rd gear 6100 rpm end limit in manual mode. I've asked this in another topic, however no definitive answers received yet.

[/I]

With the greatest respect Htomi, why is it a concern? Seriously mate. Your thrashing the nuts off the car for what reason?

[htomi]

Just bugging me.... till I receive/find a definitive answer.

If this is the confirmed stock - factory limit on the 04 GT, then so be it and it will no longer bother me.
In case if I need to rev up that high, just needs to keep in mind to switch gear around 5600-57000 and that's it.

2 wks ago I ran into this limitation after a very long time. ( nearly forgot about that the limit exists). A 'Sunday driver ' made a long queue on the open road, driving around 50-60 km/h @ 100km speed limit. 5 cars were front of me inc the reason of the q, when saw a chance to do a take over. Pushed the S button, switched back to 3rd and floored the pedal. Passing the 4th car in one go, reached the 6100 limit and got surprised why the engine keeps screaming and no more acceleration. Half a second later realized what's happening and same time switched from 3rd to 4th.
So without this limit I would have been able to rev up to 7000-7100 (like on my old S60) and not loosing a 2-3 sec during the take over action.

[stricky1967]

Just bugging me.... till I receive/find a definitive answer.

If this is the confirmed stock - factory limit on the 04 GT, then so be it and it will no longer bother me.
In case if I need to rev up that high, just needs to keep in mind to switch gear around 5600-57000 and that's it.

You could go for the RICA TCM tune that removes the torque limits from the module, I did this when I first got the car 11 or 12 years ago, GT box has been fine, but have to say I never really thrash it. :)

[htomi]

You could go for the RICA TCM tune that removes the torque limits from the module, I did this when I first got the car 11 or 12 years ago, GT box has been fine, but have to say I never really thrash it. :)

Thanks!
I know there is a possibility with tuning such as MTE, RICA, Hilton to modify the TCM limitations, however it will put more stress on the drive-line.
That extra load can be compensated with frequent fluid change in all drive line parts.

Just one question, so you recon that you had the same/similar upper rev limit before the RICA tune. Correct?

[antonys60r]

I have a s60r geartronic but mine will rev until the rev limiter cuts in at 6700 rpm. I have only done this twice as I rarely rev it beyond 5000 anyway. In regards to the issue over torque limiting. 1st and 2nd are limited , the boost is limited to 11psi then 3rd and above 15psi boost is allowed. As far as I known torque is 260 ft lb in 1st and 2nd then 295 ft lb in 3rd and above.

[htomi]

Thanks Anthony!
Do you have a 04 S60R 5spd GT?

[stricky1967]

Just one question, so you recon that you had the same/similar upper rev limit before the RICA tune. Correct?

tbh I cant remember what the car used to be like before the tune, remember it being a fair bit slower off the line, I'll try a 3rd gear run when I dont have the mrs. sat beside me and let you know what mine does. :)

[antonys60r]

Thanks Anthony!
Do you have a 04 S60R 5spd GT?

No problem and yes I have

[htomi]

Gents,

I found several topic on the us forum where various members stating the same, that there is a soft limiter around 6100-6300 rpm 3rd gear on the '04 - 5spd GTs.
So my car is fine and this an expected behavior.

http://forums.swedespeed.com/showthread.php?77212-people-with-2004-R-GT
http://forums.swedespeed.com/showthread.php?109352-Weird-redline

[antonys60r]

I'm always a little bit skeptical on some of the info on American sites. I know when in auto the tcm calls for a gear change at 6000rpm but I thought in manual you could rev to the limiter. What did yours feel like at 6300rpm. Mine hit the red line and I could feel it as the ignition was cut. Exactly the same happens on the Mrs car when that revs to the redline and the ignition is cut.

[htomi]

....I know when in auto the tcm calls for a gear change at 6000rpm but I thought in manual you could rev to the limiter....
Yes and no.

1st & 2nd I can hit the red line, no problem.
In 3rd I cannot go above the 6300 rpm. It feels exactly the same as you hit the red line limiter. As soon as the rpm drops below the limiter by few hundred, it pulls again hard till the limit.

Tbh, I cannot see exactly the needle (my eyes are not the best) but its somewhere between 6100-6400rpm.

I haven't tried to do the same in 4th as it will be a crazy speed.

[antonys60r]

Ok perhaps that is just the way it is then. A good car is hampered by an inadequate gearbox. ! Having said that the manuals have their own issues as well.

[htomi]

Ok perhaps that is just the way it is then. A good car is hampered by an inadequate gearbox. ! Having said that the manuals have their own issues as well.

As said above: it does not bother me anymore, and certainly can live with this limitation. Like the comfort of the GT.

[antonys60r]

I agree . I've had mine 6 years so far. I drive a truck for a living and it's nice to cruise home after work.

[kmb]

I fancy changing those valves as a serviceable part on my 850... I've already done the BCS and all vacuum lines.

Are those valves (#MA000 431 61 07) the same as the ones on the 850 T5?

I've seen where one of them is i.e. right hand side of the radiator as you look at the car - where is the other one, if there are also 2 on the 850?

At the risk of being a pain on these Merc valves, any idea where I can order them online?

Cheers - I'm stuck in France for at least a month, and my usual ebay searches have proven useless, with no knowledge of where the Merc chaps order their parts online.

[htomi]

Just buy the Volvo ones.
One-way valve (black & white) 9485451 fits for second gen R.

[kmb]

Just buy the Volvo ones.
One-way valve (black & white) 9485451 fits for second gen R.

Not at 5 times the price :lol:

[kmb]

Just to add to this thread (I know it's an 850 T5 in the wrong place).

I've just bought a couple of those £4 each Mercedes one way valves #MA000 431 61 07 and next week will replace my original 140k mile old items as a serviceable item.

All other vacuum pipes and BCS previously changed for new.