Boost question R

[Nev]

Afternoon,

Boost on a R should be around 1bar, I believe, please confirm anyone who has a standard tune R and a gauge fitted.
I am currently getting approx 0.5bar and feels way down on power.

Is there anything that controls the boost other than the ecu. I have had this issue for a while but it has now started to be bother me, up to 20mph slower than it was. Originally I didn't have a gauge fitted so don't know what it used to be.
Our local specialist says he can't find anything wrong, smoke tested system etc, and says it feels as quick as any other R, but it's slower than it was....

I recently changed the TCV, do these have different specs according to model. I know they have something to do with limiting/controlling boost, but are they all the same?

Cheers

[T5RatherAmusin]

What r? A 60R should be 1 bar....
controlled by ecu, bcs tcv and actuator

[T5frankie]

What r? A 60R should be 1 bar....
controlled by ecu, bcs tcv and actuator

And your foot?

[Nev]

Thought so.

Assuming standard tune the ecu should be fine. The actuator rod feels right, no slack and tight spring, also garage checked that too.
When you say bcs TCV are you talking about one item? If that is the case then I need to know if they vary and I have an incorrect part fitted.

[Nev]

And your foot?

The foot works, max pressure at all times

[T5RatherAmusin]

Thought so.

Assuming standard tune the ecu should be fine. The actuator rod feels right, no slack and tight spring, also garage checked that too.
When you say bcs TCV are you talking about one item? If that is the case then I need to know if they vary and I have an incorrect part fitted.

No two sensors. One on your intercooler outlet (bcs- boost control sensor) and tcv by your air box with 3 pipes going to (turbo control valve)

[graemewelch]

might be worth replacing the recirc valve and trying a different maf and map sensor. your welcome to try mine.

[Nev]

No two sensors. One on your intercooler outlet (bcs- boost control sensor) and tcv by your air box with 3 pipes going to (turbo control valve)

Right, the bcs has not been looked at by me, I didn't know it existed. Will see if I can check it out, assuming it's not too difficult to get to.
I don't think there is anything serious, it's the finding the problem part that's difficult

[Nev]

might be worth replacing the recirc valve and trying a different maf and map sensor. your welcome to try mine.

Hi Graeme,

Where's this recirc valve, I shall have a look at that too. If I get no joy, then it may be worth swapping bits to see of it starts to fly again

[graemewelch]

is it possible your boost gauge is reading wrong and that the car had been mapped in the past and the ecu has been updated by volvo and wiped the the map. just a thought. you could be trying to fix something thats not broken

[graemewelch]

Hi Graeme,

Where's this recirc valve, I shall have a look at that too. If I get no joy, then it may be worth swapping bits to see of it starts to fly again


its on the turbo and is a bitch to do. not realy hard but but fiddly if you have sausage fingers

[M-R-P]

The BCS is boost control solenoid or TCV (turbo control valve) same thing. the boost pressure is detected by the bps/map sensor. is it possible your last tcv was plumbed-in wrong? that can make the car feel more aggressive.
To test the recirc, find the pipe that comes off it, pull it off the manifold connector and try to blow/suck down it. if pressure/vacuum escapes at all, it's split and needs changing. (you're gonna get a dirty mouth doing that - you could use a bicycle pump with an adapter on it)

[T5RatherAmusin]

aye I ment bps not bcs lol

[Nev]

The map has never been changed during my ownership.
Lost boost without any garage intervention, so unless it had been remapped with some sort of timer on the map that erased it by magic then that isn't an option.
Checked it all out, replaced TCV, got 0.5bar after plumbing in gauge. With original TCV there was 0 boost.
Gauge is reading as near as dammit right, checked with another gauge and both read the same.
I have no vacuum leaks, garage did smoke test of pipes and gave full bill of health. No faults showing, or there weren't, garage checked and fettled everything.
Car runs really well, but slow, well slower, it could hardly be described as slow but you know what I mean.

Since getting it back from the garage nothing has changed, nothing got worse so no issues have developed since, still as it was when they got it to repair, except without angle gear noises etc etc

I'm beginning to wonder if I should get it remapped, unless, as I wondered in earlier post, are the TCV's of different specs which could limit boost?

[M-R-P]

Are you 100% sure the new tcv is plumbed in correctly?

After that, I'd be looking for something like a split in the rubber connector that only shows up under load. Look for damp, oily patches on all the boost pipes and connections, that's a giveaway of a leak.
Then, possibly the inlet manifold gasket or even knackered turbo.

I wouldn't map it until it's running right.

[Nev]

Are you 100% sure the new tcv is plumbed in correctly?

After that, I'd be looking for something like a split in the rubber connector that only shows up under load. Look for damp, oily patches on all the boost pipes and connections, that's a giveaway of a leak.
Then, possibly the inlet manifold gasket or even knackered turbo.

I wouldn't map it until it's running right.

I've checked for leaks, and signs of leaks.
I will have to recheck piping to TCV but am certain it's correct, surely garage would have checked too as they knew it was newly fitted. I don't think turbo is knackered as it passed mot with no emission issues so seals are fine. There's no smoke at all from pipe, had someone watch from behind when they were trying to keep up.
Other than the boost not reading what it should it seems perfect.
I shall check piping again in morning.

[graemewelch]

I've checked for leaks, and signs of leaks.
I will have to recheck piping to TCV but am certain it's correct, surely garage would have checked too as they knew it was newly fitted. I don't think turbo is knackered as it passed mot with no emission issues so seals are fine. There's no smoke at all from pipe, had someone watch from behind when they were trying to keep up.
Other than the boost not reading what it should it seems perfect.
I shall check piping again in morning.


they should be colour coded so almost impossible to get them wrong. i wouldnt rely on emisions to prove the turbo is fine. bearing could be goosed and not allowing it to spool up as it should. probobly a sensor though

[960kg]

Just to add to the above ........don`t know what R??......so first check the actuator setting as the actuator rod wears elongated and the boost pressure will drop.....i have just reset mine with startling results!

The recirculating valve on the Mitsubishi TD04 family of turbos is tooooo robust and reliable to cause any problems on any model!.......the KKK24 i don`t know......

TCV`s are recommended to be replaced every 100,000 mls with NEW and not 2nd hand ones....if connected the wrong way, won`t work...if connected the correct way it will work the boost normally.

[graemewelch]

as its in the phase 2 area id say its a v70r with the 2.5 engine and k24 turbo

[LeeT5]

as its in the phase 2 area id say its a v70r with the 2.5 engine and k24 turbo

Phase 2 or P2 R?? Come on guys, we need to be specific here. Which model we talking about?
if it's a Phase 2 V70R >00 then 0.5 bar (7.2psi) is absolutely spot on!! Infact, that's high! OE spec on a 1997-2000 R is 4.2psi. On the later models 03> it's 4.4psi.

So, if your getting 0.5bar then that's good.

Worth noting that earlier R models (Phase 1, 2 + 3 models >00) don't have a BPS. They use the MAF, Throttle position and RPM to calculate boost via the ECM. The ECM will then actuate the BCS to operate the Turbo wastegate.

[graemewelch]

lee its a phase 2 R same as your car. 2003 i beleve.

[T5RatherAmusin]

Phase 2 or P2 R?? Come on guys, we need to be specific here. Which model we talking about?
if it's a Phase 2 V70R >00 then 0.5 bar (7.2psi) is absolutely spot on!! Infact, that's high! OE spec on a 1997-2000 R is 4.2psi. On the later models 03> it's 4.4psi.

So, if your getting 0.5bar then that's good.

Worth noting that earlier R models (Phase 1, 2 + 3 models >00) don't have a BPS. They use the MAF, Throttle position and RPM to calculate boost via the ECM. The ECM will then actuate the BCS to operate the Turbo wastegate.
No way does an s60r see .5 bar of boost!

[960kg]

He`s talking Base Boost .......what the turbo wastegate is adjusted to!.......which is a high Base Setting

[graemewelch]

No way does an s60r see .5 bar of boost!


be prepared to be proven wrong. its not very often lee gets something wrong and saying as he drive a v70r i doubt it very much that hes wrong

[T5RatherAmusin]

He`s talking Base Boost .......what the turbo wastegate is adjusted to!.......which is a high Base Setting
this is what I believe to but op is not

[T5RatherAmusin]

be prepared to be proven wrong. its not very often lee gets something wrong and saying as he drive a v70r i doubt it very much that hes wrong

I ain't wrong grae. you'll find lee is on about something totally different to what the OP is....

[LeeT5]

He`s talking Base Boost .......what the turbo wastegate is adjusted to!.......which is a high Base Setting

thankyou!

[LeeT5]

Yeah, Sorry, I should have been more specific. If he's adamant that he has no air leaks (vac) or boost leaks then you gotta start at basics.

Remove the Turbo heat shields and set the waste-gate to the correct setting. As I said, it's 4.4psi on a 03> R. That means the wastegate will start to open at 4.4psi. Once you have correctly set the wastegate then you can re fit the heat shields and road test. Then see what boost your getting on you gauge. You need to be under load (going uphill) 3rd gear at about 3000rpm. Floor it!! You should get at least 6-8psi boost on the gauge immediately then rise to a peak boost of about 10 - 12psi at 4500rpm. That's on a standard mapped car.
If you don't see those readings then there are many variables that can affect it, such as:

The most likely cause is the Turbo recirculating valve. They will naturally become weak and the rubber degrades over time. They are subject to huge high temps being bolted directly on the turbo and I would urge anyone to replace with a new one every 60-80k (If fitting OE), or with an aftermarket alloy piston type (Fit and forget).
The TCV will also affect boost if it's slow to react and or not functioning correctly.
Air filter. Never under estimate a dirty air filter. It will rob your turbo of air and the car will then under boost and just not build up boost quick enough.
The BPS (Boost pressure sensor). These are easily affected by oil residue that naturally builds up in the Intercooler pipes. If this is minging and caked in crud then it will not provide the correct information to the cars ECU which in turn, will cause the TCV to not react soon enough and ultimately affect when the wastegate opens and closes. Very simple to remove and clean - Thou be careful!! The Torx 20 screw is normally rusty and easily rounded off.

Hope this helps!! ;)

[Nev]

If I unplug the TCV should I see any boost at all on the gauge?
Before I replaced it I got nothing at all on gauge, which suggests not even base boost. I've never checked this as it was running well and quick. Could I now, somehow, only be seeing base boost as this sounds like what I'm getting. If so this would point to some electronic trickery not working.

Still got no leaks, checked again.
Pipes to TCV look right too, correct colours etc

The car is an 03 V70R, p2, geartronic.

[LeeT5]

The wastegate is controlled by the TCV, which ultimately is told what to do by the ECU (based on information received from the BPS). It's all rather complex but simple at the same time.
If you disconnect the TCV you will still see boost because the turbo is always spooling when driving. You'll achieve nothing by doing this.
What reading are you seeing when the car is stationary,idle, warmed up with a/c off? You should be seeing -20psi!

[R-200vi]

is it possible your boost gauge is reading wrong and that the car had been mapped in the past and the ecu has been updated by volvo and wiped the the map. just a thought. you could be trying to fix something thats not broken

I know its a bit off subject but if you have the volvo software update does it wipe the map to does anyone know? Been think about this as my S60r is in need off some updates. And it has been mapped by HLM in the past.

[LeeT5]

I know its a bit off subject but if you have the volvo software update does it wipe the map to does anyone know? Been think about this as my S60r is in need off some updates. And it has been mapped by HLM in the past.

A normal software update at the dealer will not erase the ECU map. The only way it is possible to do that is if the Dealer were to do a full ECM reload. This type of reload is not normal and the dealer would only do it if the ECM were not communicating with DICE/VIDA. Under these circumstances, the Dealer would normally discuss this with the owner as there is an inerrant cost involved including labour and software costs.
The reload would involve downloading the software for your ECM directly from Sweden and this takes time.

If your car has had a remap by anyone, then a normal 'software update' will not affect the MAP.

Also, to clarify, If the needle of the boost gauge settles on '0' when the engine is off and -20psi when at idle, then the boost gauge is working correctly.

[960kg]

Also, to clarify, If the needle of the boost gauge settles on '0' when the engine is off and -20psi when at idle, then the boost gauge is working correctly.


You do of course mean -20inHg

[LeeT5]

You do of course mean -20inHg

;) Of course!

[Nev]

The wastegate is controlled by the TCV, which ultimately is told what to do by the ECU (based on information received from the BPS). It's all rather complex but simple at the same time.
If you disconnect the TCV you will still see boost because the turbo is always spooling when driving. You'll achieve nothing by doing this.
What reading are you seeing when the car is stationary,idle, warmed up with a/c off? You should be seeing -20psi!

When the TCV was knackered I saw no boost whatsoever. Fitted a new TCV and it went to 0.5bar.

On idle, warmed up, no air on, I read -7ish psi, or just over -0.5bar on my gauge. On the overrun it only drops to -0.75bar, and has never dropped lower. Are you sure about -20psi? Gauge only drops to -1bar


Typically, the last few posts weren't there when I started my reply. Conversion works out about spot on with inHg

[R-200vi]

A normal software update at the dealer will not erase the ECU map. The only way it is possible to do that is if the Dealer were to do a full ECM reload. This type of reload is not normal and the dealer would only do it if the ECM were not communicating with DICE/VIDA. Under these circumstances, the Dealer would normally discuss this with the owner as there is an inerrant cost involved including labour and software costs.
The reload would involve downloading the software for your ECM directly from Sweden and this takes time.

If your car has had a remap by anyone, then a normal 'software update' will not affect the MAP.

Also, to clarify, If the needle of the boost gauge settles on '0' when the engine is off and -20psi when at idle, then the boost gauge is working correctly.

Hi Cheers for that information. Been have problems connecting my S60r to the works diagnostic. Wont connect to any of the systems. We work on plenty of volvo and just seems to have a problem connecting to the phase 2 R's. Anyone else had this?

[LeeT5]

When the TCV was knackered I saw no boost whatsoever. Fitted a new TCV and it went to 0.5bar.

On idle, warmed up, no air on, I read -7ish psi, or just over -0.5bar on my gauge. On the overrun it only drops to -0.75bar, and has never dropped lower. Are you sure about -20psi? Gauge only drops to -1bar


Typically, the last few posts weren't there when I started my reply. Conversion works out about spot on with inHg

Of course I'm sure its -20psi. I'm not blind! It's what my gauge is reading and always read. Incidentally, that's -1.3bar.

[T5RatherAmusin]

ye ill normally see bout -22

[LeeT5]

ye ill normally see bout -22

At idle (stationary) -20psi
When driving (off throttle) -24psi.

[960kg]

Mine is a digital guage and it reads -11psi which equals -22inHG on hot idle

[Nev]

Mine is a digital guage and it reads -11psi which equals -22inHG on hot idle

Yep, that's what I'm reading, allowing for my gauge inaccuracy, (or eyes that can't differentiate enough).
I have another gauge that reads +vePSI and -ve inHg but it needs power feed so haven't plumbed it in yet.

Checked all pies again, still no leaks. Checked connectors, seem fine.
Unplugged TCV, and still have same boost, so now points to

1. New TCV from volvo is faulty
2. Signal not getting to TCV from ecu
3. Broken wire in cable to TCV.

No time to check tonight with multi meter to see if I'm getting power to TCV. Do these TCV's click when powered up with the ignition as vauxhalls and saabs do? Will be quicker than a meter if they do..

[LeeT5]

Yep, that's what I'm reading, allowing for my gauge inaccuracy, (or eyes that can't differentiate enough).
I have another gauge that reads +vePSI and -ve inHg but it needs power feed so haven't plumbed it in yet.

Checked all pies again, still no leaks. Checked connectors, seem fine.
Unplugged TCV, and still have same boost, so now points to

1. New TCV from volvo is faulty
2. Signal not getting to TCV from ecu
3. Broken wire in cable to TCV.

No time to check tonight with multi meter to see if I'm getting power to TCV. Do these TCV's click when powered up with the ignition as vauxhalls and saabs do? Will be quicker than a meter if they do..

I doubt all the above. I think you maybe looking too hard or even barking up the wrong tree. I think you need to take it to the dealer so they can run live readings and make sure things are doing what they're meant to.

[LeeT5]

Nev, have you got to the bottom of this?

I believe I too may have the same problem. Need to do some more checks but at the moment I'm only getting 7psi boost WOT in third gear across the rev range.

[LeeT5]

all sorted now. Was my new TCV. Slow learner!