Modified s60r - tyre choice??

[julz]

Hi peeps,

I'm looking for advice on selecting tyres for my modified S60R. I vaguelly understand tyre width and profile but start to get confused when it comes to how these sizes affect performance.

I have 18" alloys. I've upgraded the downpipe (IPD USA) and the entire exhaust. She's also been electronically mapped.

The manufacturer recommended sizes are 225/40 but I have 235/40s on.

Can any of you gurus advise:

- Will upsizing improve performance?
- What specifically? (torque, handling, responsiveness, grip)
- Is it better to upsize width or profile or both?

At the moment I have Goodyear F1 Asymetrics (235/40, R18, 95Y XL). I don't like them and won't be getting them again. I've had the Toyo Proxes before and also the Pirelli P-Zero. Both are good but I slightly preferred the Toyo's. Rubbish wear but I guess that's a good thing in terms of performance. Never had Bridgestones, don't know much about them.

Thanks guys.

[claymore]

Look at Syron Street Race.

[M-R-P]

You could go up to 19" and 30/35 profile tyres but the ride will most likely be horrible. 235 is probably the widest you can go without destroying the inner arches, unless you go for hubcentric spacers too.

The tyre debate is a long standing and regular occurrence on any car forum but it would be interesting to hear from just R owners, what experience they've had with what rubber.

[stribo]

Ours has always had 235/40/18s on it, which do rub at the front, but that's just a P2 thing. We've got Nexen N1000 on ours, which offer decent grip, but don't wear too quickly.

[S70T5Chris]

I use these - Continental Force Contact's:

http://www.lancerregister.com/mlr_images/forum/conti_force.jpg

I run 235/40/18's, the car is lowered and does rub a smidge on full lock.

They're a bit extreme though, if your car isn't going to see a track at all. I'm suprised you're not a fan of the Eagle F1's. I used the GSD3's in the past, and run the Asymetrics on my ATR, a very good all round tyre IMHO.


I can highly recommend Vredtein Ultrac Sessanta's, and @ £93 a corner on Camskill they're a bargain. The Ultrac Vorti's are supposed to be very good also, but haven't used them myself.

[T5RatherAmusin]

I use the vred vortis and theryr the dogs danglies!

[Harvey]

The size on mine are 235-40-18.

The Hankook v12 evo tyres are a summer tyre which are good in the summer but not good great in the winter.

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=hankook%20v12%20evo&source=web&cd=8&ved=0CFIQFjAH&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hankooktire-eu.com%2Ftires%2Ftire-presenter-single-view%2Fview%2FsingleView.html%3Faoetirepresenter%2 55Btire%255D%3D11%26aoetirepresenter%255Bback%255D %3D194%26cHash%3D925cfd0485&ei=7n3dUo7uMvKS7AaF_YDwDw&usg=AFQjCNH_k3dWHszg0FcbVj81LkR91LwUMg

[Santa]

R888's arent bad......lots of noise though and may cause accelerated wheel bearing wear. (Personal experience with tbe wheel bearing, not uber scientific tests)

[steveyorks]

I suppose the question is why you want to upgrade? Looks, the ultimate in handling etc? Have you got a handling issue to want to redress?

[LeeT5]

On all R models 03> if you go 19" then the ride will be Very harsh indeed because you'll need to drop the profile from 40mm to 35mm at least. I mean, the ride is harsh enough on 18"s but on 19"s it will be worse.
The increase from 18" to 19" won't affect the rubbing because the tyre width will remain at 235mm. However, ALL P2R models with 18" wheels scrape the wheel arch liners, that's why Volvo sell the metal protector plates that fit onto the liner to stop the tyre rubbing through the plastic. The only way to stop the rubbing is to fit spacers that are 10mm minimum and to make sure you fit brand new 'black' steering stops. If yours are worn, then the rubbing will be even worse.
I have 18" wheels with 235/40ZR18 tyres and my tyres do not rub on the liners on full lock. I have new steering stops and metal protector plates fitted too. I also have 12mm spacers.

Hope that helps.

[julz]

I suppose the question is why you want to upgrade? Looks, the ultimate in handling etc? Have you got a handling issue to want to redress?


Steve you've hit the nail on the head! The reason for the question is because I'm having handling and comfort issues and reading all the replies it's not down to the brand or size of the tyres.

I've had this car since new so I know how she handles. For about 10 months I've been having lots of handling problems. The grip isn't there on cornering and the ride is SO uncomfortable. Feel every tiny bump on the road and the car shifts when hits small bump.

I've had her to 3 different garages who have inspected the suspension and said arms, bushes, everything fine. They can't see the cause. Suggested I try alignment and tyres.

I've asked 2 to visually check my bearings, not the spin and listen check but both insisted that you'd hear it if there were problems with the bearings and that wouldn't cause the problems I'm experiencing.

I've had 4-wheel alignment on one of those Hunter machines done. Was very little adjustment required.

So now I'm at a complete loss and tyres were the last resort. I've always had the 235s on, never 225s so wasn't convinced changing back to the 225s would fix it but I'm desperate now and been listening to whatever the garages are telling me.

Any ideas?

One thing I did wonder is non-Volvo garages often mistake the S60R for the standard S60 or the T5 engine. I know those Hunter machines are pre-programmed with manufacturer's settings. Anyone know if they're programmed with the S60R settings?

I guess I could get the geometry done through a Volvo dealership, I assume they will make sure it's done correctly but that's like £300 versus £90, quite a difference.

[stribo]

I'd suggest if the ride is that bad, then either the 4C shocks need replacing, or the SUM needs recalibrating.

[julz]

I'd suggest if the ride is that bad, then either the 4C shocks need replacing, or the SUM needs recalibrating.

Urgh, that's another issue. The 2nd garage, which is same place that tuned her, said front driver side shock needed replacing. They told me came in pair at £180 for the pair. Which I find hard to believe but they said they were non-oem but they were compatible. When dropped car off they said that they only replaced one but as I'd paid for the pair they put the other in the boot. It wasn't there and I've argued with them about that but I can't even see what it is they supposedly replaced since the other one wasn't in the boot.

Looks like I'm going to have to take her to a proper dealership and have the shocks looked at. Regarding the SUM recal, is that something they'd be prompted to do when hooked her up to VIDA? Problem I have with these places is they won't just carry out work you ask. If I say look at the shocks and recalibrate the SUM they always want to have the car for a road test, check for error codes, carry out a full diagnostic and don't do what you asked. I wish I could just find someone reliable that'd just do the things I wanted without going through the hassle and expense of 3 hours labour for a road test, full visual inspect and hook up to VIDA for diagnostics while not even bothering to things that needs to be hooked up to VIDA to do like recalibrate the SUM.

I'm in Basingstoke/Hampshire if anyone has any recommendations. The problem is finding someone with VIDA.

[V70 Graham]

I'm in Basingstoke/Hampshire if anyone has any recommendations. The problem is finding someone with VIDA.

I use PWCars in Beaconsfield.....but they are shutting at the end of February, Steve (stribo) lives in Basingstoke, I'm sure he'll give you the low down on local garages.

[julz]

I use PWCars in Beaconsfield.....but they are shutting at the end of February, Steve (stribo) lives in Basingstoke, I'm sure he'll give you the low down on local garages.

Is that PWCars in Farnham Common? Wow, surprised they're shutting down, I've heard of them before.

[V70 Graham]

Is that PWCars in Farnham Common? Wow, surprised they're shutting down, I've heard of them before.

It is, from what I can make out Mr Whitaker is selling up.

[stribo]

Urgh, that's another issue. The 2nd garage, which is same place that tuned her, said front driver side shock needed replacing. They told me came in pair at £180 for the pair. Which I find hard to believe but they said they were non-oem but they were compatible. When dropped car off they said that they only replaced one but as I'd paid for the pair they put the other in the boot. It wasn't there and I've argued with them about that but I can't even see what it is they supposedly replaced since the other one wasn't in the boot.

Looks like I'm going to have to take her to a proper dealership and have the shocks looked at. Regarding the SUM recal, is that something they'd be prompted to do when hooked her up to VIDA? Problem I have with these places is they won't just carry out work you ask. If I say look at the shocks and recalibrate the SUM they always want to have the car for a road test, check for error codes, carry out a full diagnostic and don't do what you asked. I wish I could just find someone reliable that'd just do the things I wanted without going through the hassle and expense of 3 hours labour for a road test, full visual inspect and hook up to VIDA for diagnostics while not even bothering to things that needs to be hooked up to VIDA to do like recalibrate the SUM.

I'm in Basingstoke/Hampshire if anyone has any recommendations. The problem is finding someone with VIDA.

We used to use K tech in Houndmills, and Sharkey R still uses him, never had a problem with him until he diagnosed our R with a split liner, and said it needed a new engine. After some advice on here, and a nit of investigation myself, it turned out to be the water pump. I took the car to Martin Matthewson, they're on the way to Cliddesden, very helpful, and reasonably priced. Might be worth giving them a ring, they're Volvo specialists, so should have a few ideas.

[LeeT5]

Steve you've hit the nail on the head! The reason for the question is because I'm having handling and comfort issues and reading all the replies it's not down to the brand or size of the tyres.

I've had this car since new so I know how she handles. For about 10 months I've been having lots of handling problems. The grip isn't there on cornering and the ride is SO uncomfortable. Feel every tiny bump on the road and the car shifts when hits small bump.

I've had her to 3 different garages who have inspected the suspension and said arms, bushes, everything fine. They can't see the cause. Suggested I try alignment and tyres.

I've asked 2 to visually check my bearings, not the spin and listen check but both insisted that you'd hear it if there were problems with the bearings and that wouldn't cause the problems I'm experiencing.

I've had 4-wheel alignment on one of those Hunter machines done. Was very little adjustment required.

So now I'm at a complete loss and tyres were the last resort. I've always had the 235s on, never 225s so wasn't convinced changing back to the 225s would fix it but I'm desperate now and been listening to whatever the garages are telling me.

Any ideas?

One thing I did wonder is non-Volvo garages often mistake the S60R for the standard S60 or the T5 engine. I know those Hunter machines are pre-programmed with manufacturer's settings. Anyone know if they're programmed with the S60R settings?

I guess I could get the geometry done through a Volvo dealership, I assume they will make sure it's done correctly but that's like £300 versus £90, quite a difference.

If the car is shifting when you hit bumps in the road and the handling is crap, its because your wheel alignment is not correct. Mine was the same for a few months before christmas, 'Side hop' issue was present and it really felt unstable and skittish at speed. Had the wheel alignment rechecked and it was miles out!!
Once they set the car to Volvo's latest specs she now handles beautifully :)

Here is my cars current alignment sheet to Volvo latest spec:

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e11/LeeT5/V70R%20Suspension/IMG_1957_zps68dac1dc.jpg (http://s36.photobucket.com/user/LeeT5/media/V70R%20Suspension/IMG_1957_zps68dac1dc.jpg.html)

As you can see, The HUNTER machine does recognize V70R/S60R models. You need to make sure you tell the technician that the car is an R not a T5 or standard S60.



Urgh, that's another issue. The 2nd garage, which is same place that tuned her, said front driver side shock needed replacing. They told me came in pair at £180 for the pair. Which I find hard to believe but they said they were non-oem but they were compatible. When dropped car off they said that they only replaced one but as I'd paid for the pair they put the other in the boot. It wasn't there and I've argued with them about that but I can't even see what it is they supposedly replaced since the other one wasn't in the boot.

Looks like I'm going to have to take her to a proper dealership and have the shocks looked at. Regarding the SUM recal, is that something they'd be prompted to do when hooked her up to VIDA? Problem I have with these places is they won't just carry out work you ask. If I say look at the shocks and recalibrate the SUM they always want to have the car for a road test, check for error codes, carry out a full diagnostic and don't do what you asked. I wish I could just find someone reliable that'd just do the things I wanted without going through the hassle and expense of 3 hours labour for a road test, full visual inspect and hook up to VIDA for diagnostics while not even bothering to things that needs to be hooked up to VIDA to do like recalibrate the SUM.

I'm in Basingstoke/Hampshire if anyone has any recommendations. The problem is finding someone with VIDA.

You do not have to buy shocks from the dealer, if you do, your looking at £430 each + fitting + SUM calibration.
You should NEVER replace shocks individually, even R models. They must always be replaced as a pair.
The only company that makes shock absorbers for 03-07 R models is Monroe and if you buy them direct they are about £190 each. If your car has done more than 80k and still on 'original from new shocks' then its fair to say they are at or nearly at the end of their life. Replacing them is the only way forwards and whilst doing so, you should replace the spring seats and support plates too, as these wear and make a massive difference to the way the car handles.
Once replaced, the car will need a SUM calibration. The Dealer can either calibrate the SUM with no update OR update the SUM to the latest version and calibrate.
When I had my SUM updated it made a big difference and relieved the car of some of the harshness and also rectified a slight knocking noise from the rear shocks when in 'COMFORT'.
I highly recommend it!!

Do not let the garage fit the shocks they have quoted you for. At £180 a pair, they are clearly, NOT the correct ones.
Volvo's latest alignment specs will completely eradicate the dreaded 'Side Hop' issue and make the car handle really well. It will feel more composed and stable and a lot more forgiving in 'COMFORT'.

If you live in Hampshire then your only and hours drive or so from MRG in Chippenham. I highly recommend them and they will not rip you off. They know what they are doing and see a lot or R models there because many R owners, including myself, take their cars there for them to work on. If you speak to Simon Chu or Tony Mac, they may even give you a discount!

[stribo]

If the car is shifting when you hit bumps in the road and the handling is crap, its because your wheel alignment is not correct. Mine was the same for a few months before christmas, 'Side hop' issue was present and it really felt unstable and skittish at speed. Had the wheel alignment rechecked and it was miles out!!
Once they set the car to Volvo's latest specs she now handles beautifully :)

Here is my cars current alignment sheet to Volvo latest spec:

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e11/LeeT5/V70R%20Suspension/IMG_1957_zps68dac1dc.jpg (http://s36.photobucket.com/user/LeeT5/media/V70R%20Suspension/IMG_1957_zps68dac1dc.jpg.html)

As you can see, The HUNTER machine does recognize V70R/S60R models. You need to make sure you tell the technician that the car is an R not a T5 or standard S60.




You do not have to buy shocks from the dealer, if you do, your looking at £430 each + fitting + SUM calibration.
You should NEVER replace shocks individually, even R models. They must always be replaced as a pair.
The only company that makes shock absorbers for 03-07 R models is Monroe and if you buy them direct they are about £190 each. If your car has done more than 80k and still on 'original from new shocks' then its fair to say they are at or nearly at the end of their life. Replacing them is the only way forwards and whilst doing so, you should replace the spring seats and support plates too, as these wear and make a massive difference to the way the car handles.
Once replaced, the car will need a SUM calibration. The Dealer can either calibrate the SUM with no update OR update the SUM to the latest version and calibrate.
When I had my SUM updated it made a big difference and relieved the car of some of the harshness and also rectified a slight knocking noise from the rear shocks when in 'COMFORT'.
I highly recommend it!!

Do not let the garage fit the shocks they have quoted you for. At £180 a pair, they are clearly, NOT the correct ones.
Volvo's latest alignment specs will completely eradicate the dreaded 'Side Hop' issue and make the car handle really well. It will feel more composed and stable and a lot more forgiving in 'COMFORT'.

If you live in Hampshire then your only and hours drive or so from MRG in Chippenham. I highly recommend them and they will not rip you off. They know what they are doing and see a lot or R models there because many R owners, including myself, take their cars there for them to work on. If you speak to Simon Chu or Tony Mac, they may even give you a discount!

Do you know what the camber settings should be Lee, as our's seems to have positive camber on the front, and negative on the rear, personally I'd like zero to negative on the front, but if Volvo specify differently I'll go with it.

[julz]

We used to use K tech in Houndmills, and Sharkey R still uses him, never had a problem with him until he diagnosed our R with a split liner, and said it needed a new engine. After some advice on here, and a nit of investigation myself, it turned out to be the water pump. I took the car to Martin Matthewson, they're on the way to Cliddesden, very helpful, and reasonably priced. Might be worth giving them a ring, they're Volvo specialists, so should have a few ideas.

Cheers Stribo, K Tech is one of the garages that I went to that wasn't happy with, clearly didn't know what they were talking about and suggested the problem was in my head and tried to tell me that it was 'bumpy' and side-hopping because I drive her in Sport. Ludicrous, I've had her since new so I'm well aware of the difference in the driving modes, what I'm experiencing is not related to that and side-hopping shouldn't happen in any setting.

Gonna give Martin Matthewson or MRG Chippenham suggested by LeeT5 a go.

[julz]

If the car is shifting when you hit bumps in the road and the handling is crap, its because your wheel alignment is not correct. Mine was the same for a few months before christmas, 'Side hop' issue was present and it really felt unstable and skittish at speed. Had the wheel alignment rechecked and it was miles out!!
Once they set the car to Volvo's latest specs she now handles beautifully :)

Here is my cars current alignment sheet to Volvo latest spec:


As you can see, The HUNTER machine does recognize V70R/S60R models. You need to make sure you tell the technician that the car is an R not a T5 or standard S60.


Awesome, as I suspected the last place didn't use the R specs, even though I reminded them. I did a google search on elitedirect.com which is on your geometry results, is that Elite Direct in Rainham, Essex? A Bit out of the way but they clearly know what they're doing and I could pop out on a Saturday and have it done.

I'm also guessing that these Hunter machines get regularly updated with manufacturer's specifications? If that's the case then how good a job they do also depends on when they last updated the specifications database on their machine?


You do not have to buy shocks from the dealer, if you do, your looking at £430 each + fitting + SUM calibration.

You should NEVER replace shocks individually, even R models. They must always be replaced as a pair.

The only company that makes shock absorbers for 03-07 R models is Monroe and if you buy them direct they are about £190 each. If your car has done more than 80k and still on 'original from new shocks' then its fair to say they are at or nearly at the end of their life. Replacing them is the only way forwards and whilst doing so, you should replace the spring seats and support plates too, as these wear and make a massive difference to the way the car handles.

Once replaced, the car will need a SUM calibration. The Dealer can either calibrate the SUM with no update OR update the SUM to the latest version and calibrate.
Do not let the garage fit the shocks they have quoted you for. At £180 a pair, they are clearly, NOT the correct ones.

Yeah that's what I thought. I had an idea of the dealer prices for the shocks as had 2 front replaced a few years ago and in total it cost over a grand. So was dubious when they said £180 a pair, then when said only replaced one and the other is in the boot (which it wasn't) I was fuming.

I'm thinking I might just try to buy the monroe ones direct and ask someone reliable and honest to replace them for me. Martin Matthewson or MRG Chippenham since you guys recommend them.


Volvo's latest alignment specs will completely eradicate the dreaded 'Side Hop' issue and make the car handle really well. It will feel more composed and stable and a lot more forgiving in 'COMFORT'.

Excuse me being thick Lee, but is this the latest alignment specs for the Hunter machine or for the SUM?

Here's a question, if I buy a DICE and VIDA software could I recalibrate the SUM myself?

I can get the DICE tool on ebay 141090035426, seems to be from the UK, unsure if it's OEM but it's not one of the ones from China at least. Then there's the software cd 321295035425, 2013 version.

I'm assuming that the SUM update and recalibration are just software updates run via the DICE? So I'm guessing it depends on whether the above software cd includes the facility to recalibrate and update the SUM and what version it is.

[LeeT5]

I did a google search on elitedirect.com which is on your geometry results, is that Elite Direct in Rainham, Essex? A Bit out of the way but they clearly know what they're doing and I could pop out on a Saturday and have it done.

Yes, it is in Rainham, Essex.

I'm also guessing that these Hunter machines get regularly updated with manufacturer's specifications? If that's the case then how good a job they do also depends on when they last updated the specifications database on their machine?

I have been using them for over 15 years! I will not get my tyres or alignment done anywhere else. I know ppl have come down from Scotland to have these guys work on their cars! They are very, very good and with regards to alignment, I would say they are the best. They will align your car to what ever spec YOU want, as they did my R last year. I had them do the HEICO setup, but I found it wasn't that good.

Yeah that's what I thought. I had an idea of the dealer prices for the shocks as had 2 front replaced a few years ago and in total it cost over a grand. So was dubious when they said £180 a pair, then when said only replaced one and the other is in the boot (which it wasn't) I was fuming.

I'm thinking I might just try to buy the monroe ones direct and ask someone reliable and honest to replace them for me. Martin Matthewson or MRG Chippenham since you guys recommend them.



Excuse me being thick Lee, but is this the latest alignment specs for the Hunter machine or for the SUM?

It's the alignment spec for the car. It's Volvo's latest spec. -0.02 front and -0.08 rear. The SUM (Suspension Module) can only be updated by Volvo. It can be calibrated by anyone with VIDA/DICE.

Here's a question, if I buy a DICE and VIDA software could I recalibrate the SUM myself? YES, but you need to have car on a 'perfectly flat' surface else your wasting your time. Volvo workshops are just that, so I let them do it.

I can get the DICE tool on ebay 141090035426, seems to be from the UK, unsure if it's OEM but it's not one of the ones from China at least. Then there's the software cd 321295035425, 2013 version.

I'm assuming that the SUM update and recalibration are just software updates run via the DICE? So I'm guessing it depends on whether the above software cd includes the facility to recalibrate and update the SUM and what version it is.

No. SUM update - only by dealer. Calibration - only via VIDA/DICE or Dealer.