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View Full Version : Help, Head gasket gone on 850T5



salokinsue
Tuesday 1st November 2005, 15:35
Hi everybody,

Can anybody advise as to the difficulty with changing the head gasket on an 850T5. The heater matrix leaked and my mum (who was driving the car at the time) did not realise and the car boiled and blew the gasket :slap:

Any ideas as to cost and is it a DIY doable job??

Cheers,

Mrsmopp
Tuesday 1st November 2005, 15:42
Where abouts are you based we may be able to point you in the direction of a recommended specialist?

x

salokinsue
Tuesday 1st November 2005, 15:45
Thanks Mrsmopp,

The car is near Chichester, but I live near Aylesbury.

My mum's local garage have quoted £1300 to change the matrix and head gasket. Unless the head is warped and then it would be a lot more!!

Justin
Tuesday 1st November 2005, 16:07
Hi and :welcome:

Personally after seeing 3 over the past 5 years i wouldnt repair it.

They never seem to be right again for some reason, i know of one owner that had to have the head skimmed and new gasket done 3 times in 18 months after it first went. If your considering £1300 to replace it i would buy a second hand engine from a breakers (£450) ish and then have it fitted (£450) ish :)

Theres loads about and if you have cracked or warped the head which is indeed possible, your basically gonna have to change the engine anyway :(

Just my take ;)

elliot
Tuesday 1st November 2005, 16:59
I have to agree,its more than likely the head will be warped.If i were you i would look at into a replacement head or a complete engine as mentioned.

Good luck

andi t5
Tuesday 1st November 2005, 17:25
I have to agree,its more than likely the head will be warped.If i were you i would look at into a replacement head or a complete engine as mentioned.

Good luckwhat are you on mate? a replacement engine because your headgaskets gone? get real, take the head to a reputable machine shop its not a difficult job and will return the head to as new, just take your time rebuilding the engine taking care to ensure all torque loadings are done with a accurate wrench and all should be well, good luck

spesh
Tuesday 1st November 2005, 18:25
If you were in south wlaes I would of done it for £300, but never mind, most the time the head never needs a skim, a piston smashed up and hit my head, but i never had my head skimmed, sod it thats what I say.

salokinsue
Tuesday 1st November 2005, 18:51
Thanks for the advice everybody.

Is there anything particularly hard about doing a head gasket on the T5?? Have rebuilt quite a few VW engines (GTi's) in the past, so know my way around.

Head gasket set from Euro car parts is £41, so am considering doing it myself.

As for the matrix, is this a common failure and is the how to in the how to section about changing a matrix on a 70 much the same as the 850??

Thanks again.

spesh
Tuesday 1st November 2005, 18:59
Same as a normal engine just with a extra bit (5th pot) and a turbo, but you should do it yourself, not hard. well ish

S60D5
Tuesday 1st November 2005, 19:07
o replace it i would buy a second hand engine from a breakers (£450) ish and then have it fitted (£450) ish :)




£450 to change an engine? I wish it were that cheap when I wanted mine done in March! Trust me, I phoned a *lot* of places and the cheapest I came up with was £960 all in inc fluids & VAT etc.

The cheapest engine I could get was £550 but it had covered 185,000 miles. I got my 60k engine for £800 (and the turbo for £150).

Mrsmopp
Tuesday 1st November 2005, 19:10
£450 to change an engine? I wish it were that cheap when I wanted mine done in March! Trust me, I phoned a *lot* of places and the cheapest I came up with was £960 all in inc fluids & VAT etc.

The cheapest engine I could get was £550 but it had covered 185,000 miles. I got my 60k engine for £800 (and the turbo for £150).

Did you try Salvo and DPA?

x

S60D5
Tuesday 1st November 2005, 19:13
Did you try Salvo and DPA?

x


I tried Salvo for sure, but who are DPA?

I ended up getting my engine from Braydon Volvo. I found about 10 T5 engines in breakers ranging from £550 to £1000 and mine was the best compromise between cost & mileage.

Mrsmopp
Tuesday 1st November 2005, 19:15
David Pengelly Auto's in Notts, they are probably the cheapest and best Specialists around so i think that may have been who Justin had in mind when he said the figures (plus we get a decent discount from Salvo ;))

x

S60D5
Tuesday 1st November 2005, 19:17
David Pengelly Auto's in Notts, they are probably the cheapest and best Specialists around so i think that may have been who Justin had in mind when he said the figures (plus we get a decent discount from Salvo ;))

x

Name rings a bell but I can't be sure!

£450 to fit an engine would be somewhat bargainous though! I guess you get cheap labour rates oop north :slap:

Justin
Tuesday 1st November 2005, 19:22
I actually paid £250 to have a new lump put in my S70, and was being generous with the costing tbh....i do know them very well though and was in no rush.

Just to add to this, i have just spoken to said mechanics, head gasket book hours is 10, @ £45 an hour plus parts for the head gasket comes to £585 inc VAT.

Engine change is booked at 10 hours and again £585 inc VAT.

Mark at Salvo says engines are individually priced, ie today he sold a T5 engine with 72k on it, guaranteed mileage, for £750, however just over the 100k mark lumps fetch around £600 minus our discount, so £540. ;)

I know which way i would go

Justin
Tuesday 1st November 2005, 19:36
what are you on mate? a replacement engine because your headgaskets gone? get real, take the head to a reputable machine shop its not a difficult job and will return the head to as new, just take your time rebuilding the engine taking care to ensure all torque loadings are done with a accurate wrench and all should be well, good luckSee my post that elliot replied to. I'm not saying all of them are like that but i have known many that are not 100% afterwards. you may aswel get a new lump, rebuild your own and then sell it to recoup :) If the heads not cracked or warped that is !

spesh
Tuesday 1st November 2005, 19:42
I would never say that an engine change was the same as an head change, who came up with that, head cone be done in half the time and thats with no air tools done on the side of the road, but engine took a while, 15-20 hours i guess, but again no air tools or speialist tools, head has been on off a few time and the times dont vary much. Head is quite simply to be honest.

Andrew
Tuesday 1st November 2005, 19:45
My other worry is not knowing the new engines history....

I've had a couple of cars with head gaskets and on my last one there was no difference once fixed with the exception the temp gauge sat ever so slightly higher when the car got up to operating temp.

That said my dad had his laguna done and it went 3 times inside of 12 months (under warrenty)... he used some small back street garage cos it was cheaper at the time...

If it's done by someone decent I don't think you should have a problem. I never have and the work is usually under warrenty for 12 months anyway is a second hand engine.

elliot
Tuesday 1st November 2005, 22:49
what are you on mate? a replacement engine because your headgaskets gone? get real, take the head to a reputable machine shop its not a difficult job and will return the head to as new, just take your time rebuilding the engine taking care to ensure all torque loadings are done with a accurate wrench and all should be well, good luck


What do you mean what am i on?!!The thing is he still has to pay someone to take the head off then take it to be skimed,chances are it will be warped and cracked if the discripion of the incident is correct,so will need a new head anyway,i have seen it before.As stated its a viable alternative with the same amount of work involved,unless you are going to do some head work which i doubt in this case.I agree with you on the basis of doing the work at home,just the head would be alot cheaper but from the post that looks out the question,plus i will put money on the fact that it will be warped!

BlackBeast
Wednesday 2nd November 2005, 01:20
To retrieve this thread from disaster, imo if you have the time and the proper tools (torque wrench, spanners, socket sets etc) and are relatively competant with those relevant tools then its a no brainer. Take the head off (make sure all th valves etc are in order when you take the out), take it to a machinists to get it checked, pressure tested and skimmed, should cost no more than £100 even down south. If all is good and there's no reason why it shouldnt, get the head back, purchase a head set (£41 i think someone mentioned it was), purchase a cambelt (no more than £20 for a cambelt) build the head back up and re-fit everything. Job done!

Al115
Wednesday 2nd November 2005, 01:24
Thank you! ;)

siamblue
Wednesday 2nd November 2005, 01:41
Give Central motors a bell in Portmouth on the Anchorage park estate, they have their own tool shop so can skim or repair your head if need being,

Gary

t5owner
Wednesday 2nd November 2005, 12:07
As for the matrix, is this a common failure and is the how to in the how to section about changing a matrix on a 70 much the same as the 850??

Thanks again.

Aye its very common the 70 write up was done by myself if you need the one for the 850 give "wobbly dave" a shout as i think he has the write up for yours but basically its mostly the same procedure just take your time and don`t cut any corners and you`ll do it just fine

Cheers

:remybussi

salokinsue
Friday 4th November 2005, 17:36
Thanks again for all the advice. Will keep you posted on what we do, still waiting for a guy my dad knows to come back with a quote for a replacement engine.

Cheers,

salokinsue
Sunday 13th November 2005, 19:07
Quick update!

Was down my parents today to inspect the damage. I was expecting an engine bay full of oil and/or water, but guess what, no signs!! Also, no sign of water in the oil or oil in the water that was left in the system!! Could this be another example of a local garage pulling the wool over the eyes of a couple of pensioners?

Car started first time, with no unexpected noises and sounded sweet! The footwells are full of coolant, so definately the heater matrix I think. Really not sure what to do now.

Would a compression check indicate if the head gasket had gone??

Thanks for any advice!

Andrew
Sunday 13th November 2005, 19:24
Certainly sounds like heater matrix

siamblue
Monday 14th November 2005, 02:55
To be honest if the matrix is leaking that bad don't run it, get it fixed if you want to keep the car, do a compression check on her take all 5 plugs out, then report back,

Gary

salokinsue
Monday 14th November 2005, 08:57
Can any one give me an idea of the compresion readings?

siamblue
Monday 14th November 2005, 11:50
11-13 bar on the early T5 pre 99. should all read roughly the same. you will know if you have a dodgy pot.

Thecloth
Saturday 14th January 2006, 17:47
Hi,

Logged in under my dad's new log in, but have some results from the compresion test.

Went like this,

First pot, nearest the distributor was 100PSI, then second was 140, third 150, fourth 160 and 5th 100. So do we think the head gasket has gone with these results?

Also, both plug holes near the small black pipe were full of oil?? any ideas?

Cheers,

Justin
Saturday 14th January 2006, 18:17
Cant tell on the compression results but the oil will be from a leaking oil filler cap seal. Sorry i cant help further

JUDGENINJA
Saturday 14th January 2006, 21:49
Hi,

Logged in under my dad's new log in, but have some results from the compresion test.

Went like this,

First pot, nearest the distributor was 100PSI, then second was 140, third 150, fourth 160 and 5th 100. So do we think the head gasket has gone with these results?

Also, both plug holes near the small black pipe were full of oil?? any ideas?

Cheers,

No. 100psi could just be worn piston rings or degrading oil...? Normal head gasket failiure is usually across two pistons (1-2, 2-3, 3-4, or 4-5). It would be very strange if the gasket had gone at both ends....

salokinsue
Monday 16th January 2006, 12:37
No. 100psi could just be worn piston rings or degrading oil...? Normal head gasket failiure is usually across two pistons (1-2, 2-3, 3-4, or 4-5). It would be very strange if the gasket had gone at both ends....

Thanks for that Judgeninja! Do you think those PSI readings would be indicative of the mileage 186K?

I think I will take a gamble and replace the matrix and see what happens!

Viffer
Tuesday 17th January 2006, 14:30
Good luck and TBH it does not sound the HG has gone.

Couple of points on this thread if it helps and all IMHO...

The price for an engine change varies all over the country... £450 is dirt cheap...down south the 1k mark is "average". You just need to work out how to get your car to the mechanic/garage versus cost of doing so.

Yet another vote for Salvo for engines etc....brilliant bunch there and have never been disspointed with them at all.

The book hours are pretty much a guesstimate for chargeing purposes based on the average mechanic...it depends on the skill of the mechanic as to how long they take. This is just ONE of the reasons I don't and will not use dealer mechanics for any work as when I use independants they charge me the time they took and NOT book prices and its always amazeing how much cheaper they are as they always take less time than the book. The only downside is that I do tend to have to wait longer untill they are free to do the work.

If the head gasket has gone then there really are 2 camps on this one as you have seen. Many say dont bother dont try although you can do this yourself.
However this is only my 1 off experience. I suggest it depends as to how badly the engine was cooked. I managed to do about 20 miles with no coolent IMHO (lower engine to matrix pipe burst/split) and no oil by the time I got home so I think we can say that was a well cooked engine. The previous owner bought her back and had a lot of contacts in the mechanic world who said go for it..and various police mechanics that said unlikely to be warped. Sure enough took the head off, head not warped, replaced said gasket and car runs like a beauty again. OK before it gets said this could be a one off BUT if I hadn't listened to the just replace engine mob I could have still been driveing my wonderful 850.

Cheers,
Viffer.

t5tart
Wednesday 18th January 2006, 01:40
anyone got that write up on 850 head removal ??

racer
Wednesday 18th January 2006, 08:34
The Haynes V70 manual is good enough if you've done this sort of thing before. OK, it's one of the newer dumbed down ones (ie spanner logos all over the place), but it got me through a complete stripdown and rebuild. I'd guess the 850 Haynes should be at least as good.

Worth getting a copy anyway, just for all the torque settings!

Get a new set of head bolts too.