V70r anyone used water/,eth injection?

[bongodave]

Don't know much about these, other than claims of 25-30% power improvement. Seen you can get kits for couple hundred quid and with Meth costing 65p litre over Nitrous at £7 it seems a viable option.

Be interested in anyone's views who have played with it.

[claymore]

I put 10% meth in my tank when I'm going to use my car in anger, I have got a water/meth injection kit, but haven't used it and will shortly have it and my nitrous kit for sale.

meth will only give you more power if you are at the limit of detonation, nitrous will give you real power gains, there is no comparison, nitrous every time :)

[bongodave]

Clearly nitrous is better as it across range, shortburst butcostsa fiver each time you use it. Was looking at meth as understand it cools air down enough to make a difference across range, plus it can be left on as I understand. 20-30% power increase on 300bhp sounds a tempting option too.

[deathrider311271]

who ever has told you 20-30% increase is talking a load of crap mate, i will be having it fitted to my V70 and the max difference it will make once mapped for w/m injection will be approx 20hp its more for the cooling.

However i do use it via the tank on my S70 at approx 7% mix to whats in the tank and yes it does give a noticable difference

[bongodave]

who ever has told you 20-30% increase is talking a load of crap mate, i will be having it fitted to my V70 and the max difference it will make once mapped for w/m injection will be approx 20hp its more for the cooling.

However i do use it via the tank on my S70 at approx 7% mix to whats in the tank and yes it does give a noticable difference

Lol. Isn't that what I said?

[jamesy12345]

Some stuff:

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=888584

http://www.methanol.org/Energy/Transportation-Fuel/Fuel-Blending-Guidelines/Blending-Handling-Bulletin-(Final).aspx

Cat in hells chance of getting 30% gains, but I like the idea of mixing a little meth in the tank, never thought of that before.

[claymore]

Lol, it's amazing the number of members who read posts but don't commenting..... Nitrous kit now sold....lol

[graemewelch]

what this meth kit you have forsale. any info i might be intrested.

[claymore]

Some stuff:

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=888584

http://www.methanol.org/Energy/Transportation-Fuel/Fuel-Blending-Guidelines/Blending-Handling-Bulletin-(Final).aspx

Cat in hells chance of getting 30% gains, but I like the idea of mixing a little meth in the tank, never thought of that before.
you have to use it sparingly as it corrodes pipes and perrishes rubber.

[bongodave]

Cheers for that. 10-20% still significant with outlay.

Issue I got is running on LPG so in tank no good. Gotta be super-careful too as meth totally screws rubber hoses and seals designed for petrol. I played with various mixes on FTO and rubber hoses visibly melt with any mix over 10%. Wouldn't wanna risk injectors, pump and hoses being destroyed with long-term use so decided against it.

Obviously, water/meth injection is designed to cool air and also has benefit of cleaning engine nicely.

Just wondered if anyone played withit on a Volvo turbo and if it worth the couple hundred quid outlay.

[jamesy12345]

Cheers for that. 10-20% still significant with outlay.

Issue I got is running on LPG so in tank no good. Gotta be super-careful too as meth totally screws rubber hoses and seals designed for petrol. I played with various mixes on FTO and rubber hoses visibly melt with any mix over 10%. Wouldn't wanna risk injectors, pump and hoses being destroyed with long-term use so decided against it.

Obviously, water/meth injection is designed to cool air and also has benefit of cleaning engine nicely.

Just wondered if anyone played withit on a Volvo turbo and if it worth the couple hundred quid outlay.

Yes, I heard about how corrosive it is......I've never tried it myself either injected with water or added into the tank, the cost can be really low if you do it yourself as below...

http://www.turbomirage.com/water.html

I don't know any numbers but as Deathrider says above to get the most out of it the map needs to take account of it, from what I read it helps with cooling so you can get away with higher compression ratio and/or boost and that is where the gains come from. Keeping the heat down will prevent the ECU backing the timing off (or whatever the protection systems are) when pinking is detected by the knock sensor.

I looked at the site above a while ago but decided against it and got a nitrous kit instead (still waiting to be fitted...). Might have a little dabble with the meth in the tank though....thanks for comments about perishing hoses etc chaps

[bongodave]

Nitrous just seems prohibitively expensive as the gas is a bloody rip-off now! lol. Had a kit fitted on my other car and never used it due to cost. Fiver a hit means you could use a 70quid tank in one outing with ease. Good for quarter mile runs and putting on Fiat Pandas to show-up Audi TT's lol.

Handy link btw. Thanks for that. :-)

[claymore]

what this meth kit you have forsale. any info i might be intrested.

Aquamist 1s, I got it off Huw Jardon, but never got around to fitting it:

http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u258/claymore2k/20131208_164119.jpg (http://s170.photobucket.com/user/claymore2k/media/20131208_164119.jpg.html)

[jamesy12345]

Nitrous just seems prohibitively expensive as the gas is a bloody rip-off now! lol. Had a kit fitted on my other car and never used it due to cost. Fiver a hit means you could use a 70quid tank in one outing with ease. Good for quarter mile runs and putting on Fiat Pandas to show-up Audi TT's lol.

Aye, I hear ya...but it's on my list to do before I die (probably death by over use of nitrous if I can afford it :D)

[bongodave]

Aye, I hear ya...but it's on my list to do before I die (probably death by over use of nitrous if I can afford it :D)

You'll go with a smile on yer face mind!

[Kingsford G]

Dave,remap it first and,change the exhaust manifold to me7 (WOODY T5 had one for sale),blue injectors,wallbro 255fuel pump,3.8fuel reg.etc

[bongodave]

Dave,remap it first and,change the exhaust manifold to me7 (WOODY T5 had one for sale),blue injectors,wallbro 255fuel pump,3.8fuel reg.etc

Map deffo getting done in couple weeks. Be good to get the 960 throt body too. Was looking at that turbo t-piece today and wondering where it goes. Be nice to get more boost higher up but understand care needs to be taken.

Not sure if the pump and injector thing worth it as running on LPG most of time. Independent place here sells for 60p litre! lol What's the inlet mod you talking about? Was thinking LCB exhaust manifold too further down line.

Gonna go for cheap n esay ones for now mind you so map, throt-body and t-piece (when i find out where it goes). Really chuffed to bits with car as-is mate and big thanks for selling it. Even the stereo kicks arse! lol

You know, a set of NGK spark plugs designed for LPG only cost 11 quid!? Bloody nearly 90 for the Mitsubishi!

[V70 Graham]

So.....do I need 'Meth' or 'Nitrous' ?

[bongodave]

So.....do I need 'Meth' or 'Nitrous' ?

Nitrous if you wanna spend 5-10 quid each time you flick the boost switch.

[Nealevo]

So.....do I need 'Meth' or 'Nitrous' ?

You my dear Sir, do not!!

[claymore]

Nitrous if you wanna spend 5-10 quid each time you flick the boost switch.

You can't compare meth and nitrous, all meth really does is raise the octane rating and cools down the intake charge which makes the air denser, Nitrous super cools the intake charge and adds a big dollop of extra oxygen, once you have the nitrous setup on your car all it costs to change the horse power is £6 worth of injectors, so for 6 quid you can go from an extra 25bhp to 200bhp if you wanted to.

[bongodave]

You can't compare meth and nitrous, all meth really does is raise the octane rating and cools down the intake charge which makes the air denser, Nitrous super cools the intake charge and adds a big dollop of extra oxygen, once you have the nitrous setup on your car all it costs to change the horse power is £6 worth of injectors, so for 6 quid you can go from an extra 25bhp to 200bhp if you wanted to.

No one is comparing lol. Nitrous is clearly more powerful. Meth, however, does not increase octane rating unless put in tank (where you risk melting lots of rubber and seals) but does, as you say, cool the inlet which is the point. It also keeps the engine free from carbon and contaminants as excellent cleaner. It also costs a couple of quid to fil reservoir with water/meth mix as opposed to 7 quid a litre for nitrous.

The nozzle jets on the fogger (not injector) are very cheap. The system, however, costs in excess of 500 quid with a ten litre bottle costing 70-80 quid to fill and going after 4 or 5 hits if you got big jets.

Nitrous would be good if the cost of gas was a quarter of current price. Biggest bang per pound thing no longer applies and it would work out cheaper getting a supercharger in the long-term.

just a few thoughts from someone who has already explored this road and realised the cost is paved with gold.....your gold.

[claymore]

Your very first post, you stated that meth might be a viable option over Nitrous, I would say that you were making a comparison.

I have nitroused just about every performance car i have ever owned, and can tell you, if you haven't tried it, you have no idea what you are missing, i can usually put a kit together for around £150, and have just sold my kit for £100, £70 worth of gas will easily last 2 or 3 quarter mile meets, I use a lot more than that in petrol to get to a meet and home again, where else can you get that sort of performance, putting water/meth injection on a virtually standard car will gain you nothing, you would normally only consider using it when you have exhausted every other way of keeping your intake temps down, which is why I haven't used my kit, because I would gain nothing from using it.

[bongodave]

But, I have nitroused just about every performance car i have ever owned, and can tell you, if you haven't tried it, you have no idea what you are missing, i can usually put a kit together for around £150, and have just sold my kit for £100, £70 worth of gas will easily last 2 or 3 quarter mile meets, I use a lot more than that in petrol to get to a meet and home again, where else can you get that sort of performance, putting water/meth injection on a virtually standard car will gain you nothing, you would normally only consider using it when you have exhausted every other way of keeping your intake temps down, which is why I haven't used my kit, because I would gain nothing from using it.

You must be using small jets and I have no idea how you can put a kit together for £150. The solenoids cost that! lol

You're right though, the performance gains are awesome, just expensive. Supercharger strikes me as way to go and that will be my next toy on FTO having tried nitrous and drained my wallet lol.

Can't see why you think 10-20%increase on a stock turbo aint worth it tho. Strikes me that's quite a good improvement.

How much you asking for your kit out of interest and is it complete?

[claymore]

You must be using small jets and I have no idea how you can put a kit together for £150. The solenoids cost that! lol

You're right though, the performance gains are awesome, just expensive. Supercharger strikes me as way to go and that will be my next toy on FTO having tried nitrous and drained my wallet lol.

Can't see why you think 10-20%increase on a stock turbo aint worth it tho. Strikes me that's quite a good improvement.

How much you asking for your kit out of interest and is it complete?
You will not get any measurable increase with meth untill you are already at the limit of the turbo, then it would be just as cheap to put a bigger turbo on, I've sold my complete kit and all my spares today for £100. I sold the last kit I had for £125.

Sorry, the meth kit is £75, I assume it's all there bar a tank.

[bongodave]

You will not get any measurable increase with meth untill you are already at the limit of the turbo, then it would be just as cheap to put a bigger turbo on, I've sold my complete kit and all my spares today for £100. I sold the last kit I had for £125.

Sorry, the meth kit is £75, I assume it's all there bar a tank.

Blimey! If you get any more nitrous kits, inc bottle, for around a ton, gimme a shout mate. I'll get one for the FTO.