Post Gearbox change - this will shock you!

[JamesT5]

Ok so I've hopped back on to VPC earlier than anticipated but really I think this is important that you all read this and see the photos, some of you already have because you've been following my facebook feeds.

For those of you who are completely unaware of the recent chain of events, I took the car in to a company called French Auto Solutions (FAS) in Pontypool (Gwent), for the work on the T5. They advertise themselves as "South Wales' leading Peugeot, Renault, Citroen and Volvo Specialists" although to be honest after getting the car back from them I would dispute this 100%. It also goes to show that some of these so-called 'Specialists' aren't Specialists at all because a true Specialist would not hand me back a car in the condition in which I'm about to tell you about. I know we have true Specialists on this forum so I'd be interested to hear their feedback on this because I was gob smacked at the results.

Firstly, I need to tell you what I asked FAS to do for me, considering as well that they had the car for 2 whole days! This is a list of the work I asked them to carry out;


Change Gearbox, DMF, Clutch, Slave Cylinder and fill with appropriate fluids


Polybush Anti-roll bar


Change Fuel Sender unit (my gauge is showing a false reading)


Fit new genuine Volvo Boost Control Solenoid/TCV (whilst the car was in I got them to do it - might as well I thought).


Ok, so would you not agree that for someone claiming to be a Volvo Specialist (a leading one at that), would find this sort of task relatively straight forward? I think you would agree. So, now on with the results (sorry, this might seem a little like a crown court statement but I need to tell you all the whole story).......

They informed me that the fuel sender I supplied was faulty so I asked them to put the unit that was on the car when I brought it in, back on and I know they did this because the replacement unit was marked up on top. This was right at the end of the day and what concerned me was the 'bang, bang, bang, bang' I heard coming from the workshop. It turns out the guy was using a hammer and chisel instead of the official Volvo tool (which you can get online btw).

When I got the car back the steering column was squeaking and there was a knocking sound when I went over a bump in the car park, OMG I thought, so I got the owner to take the car back in to the workshop and give it a full suspension, steering and underside inspection and to fix the squeak. He claimed there was a rubber seal that had come loose and it needed popping back in to place and credit where it's due he did sort the squeak out.

He claims however, that the knocking sound was the new Polyurethane ARB bushes settling down. Just to note at this point as well, I did notice the car wouldn't start properly when he took it back from the car park to the workshop and it took a while to fire up. I also asked him specifically whether the 'O' ring that holds the fuel sender down had been properly tightened to prevent a fuel leak and he said, "Yes, that's all nice and tight".

So I drove the car away and heard this horrible squeak coming from under the car, I had my suspicions that the ARB bushes hadn't been greased and this later turned out to be correct. I also noticed that my tracking was now way out and the car pulls to the left although in a conversation today the owner basically denied this was anything to do with him, I thought "you liar" knowing I'd had this perfectly aligned by ATS around 6 weeks beforehand. I put it to him that when they disconnected the inner tie-rods to drop the subframe down they would have knocked the tracking out when they reconnected them. He denied this was possible which even I know is a total load of rubbish because touching anything steering related on the car is likely to throw out the tracking and wheel alignment.

Anyway, going back to the chain of events after picking the car up.... I went to a Shell garage and put in 42 litres of V-Power Nitro + and then drove to the local Asda supermarket because the other half wanted to buy herself some new shoes and a pair of trousers. So we went there and got that plus some food, hoping there would be no more engine issues with the car and it was just the ECU learning new parameters after fitting the new TCV etc.

When we got back to the car, I went to fire it up and it just turned over and over and over, the rev meter spiked briefly at around 3000 - 4000 rpm but it wouldn't turn over properly. So I gave it a bit more and it fired up but I put my foot on the throttle and there was no throttle response at all, the engine didn't rev. At this point I noticed a really strong smell of petrol, and recognised the smell from the first time I had a fuel leak. It came as no surprise to me therefore, that the cowboy at the garage hadn't in fact tightened that 'O' ring down correctly as stated and I had petrol coming up over the top of the sender and dribbling down the side of the fuel tank (see photo of fuel leak on top of the sender), leaving a strong petrol vapour smell in the car - very dangerous. I was and still am absolutely seething!

http://i1306.photobucket.com/albums/s562/_JamesT5/P1011143_zpsdd361c60.jpg (http://s1306.photobucket.com/user/_JamesT5/media/P1011143_zpsdd361c60.jpg.html)

Now, sensibly I've armed myself to the teeth with AA cover and gone for the full monty apart from European Cover, so I got on the phone and called the AA and about 90 minutes later the guy turns up. The AA patrol man who was very helpful and even organised me a loan car through my policy, told me that had I brimmed the tank then the fuel would have been 'gushing' over the top of the sender and it would have been alot worse.

When I started the car up for him, it did actually fire up first time but when we took a detailed look under the bonnet we discovered that a vacuum hose had been disconnected down where it connects, I believe, to the air intake hose (correct me if I'm wrong). In a later conversation (today) with the garage owner, when I asked him about why it had been pulled off at that end he stated it must have been removed during the gearbox change. The picture below shows the hose and location in question.......

http://i1306.photobucket.com/albums/s562/_JamesT5/P1011148_zpsf5f80f03.jpg (http://s1306.photobucket.com/user/_JamesT5/media/P1011148_zpsf5f80f03.jpg.html)

Also, I noticed the garage had snapped/broken one of the piece of mounting points on the top boost hose and lost the Torx 25 screws holding the boost pipe on. They had taken a 10mm bolt from my Rad fan housing and another from somewhere else (can't find where yet), and used them to screw the boost pipe and I think it's a fuel line in to place. The owner denied taking the bolt from the Rad fan housing claiming it was flapping around loose when I took the car in, this made me angry given the fact that I personally tightened these bolts up myself when Leeds_Finest (Ed) and myself were swapping bits over on our cars a few weeks ago! The guy is telling me a pack of lies!

Here's some photos, the wrong bolts/screws is taking the piss, the broken mount in the boost pipe is really upsetting......

http://i1306.photobucket.com/albums/s562/_JamesT5/P1011146_zps4067f436.jpg (http://s1306.photobucket.com/user/_JamesT5/media/P1011146_zps4067f436.jpg.html)

http://i1306.photobucket.com/albums/s562/_JamesT5/P1011147_zps851412f8.jpg (http://s1306.photobucket.com/user/_JamesT5/media/P1011147_zps851412f8.jpg.html)

http://i1306.photobucket.com/albums/s562/_JamesT5/P1011153_zpsdaa69682.jpg (http://s1306.photobucket.com/user/_JamesT5/media/P1011153_zpsdaa69682.jpg.html)

So I'm now left with a fuel leak when the tank is filled high, a car that still doesn't start properly (I've a video of that to upload later), tracking that's out by miles and a load of botched stuff under the bonnec. Also, here's a picture of the new Polyurethane ARB bushes which should be copper greased, something the garage also deny, claiming they shouldn't be greased at all. I told them they should be greased up to prevent premature deterioration of the polyurethane, the reply I got was "well there was no copper grease with them". I said to that, that they were a garage and would have had some in the workshop!

http://i1306.photobucket.com/albums/s562/_JamesT5/P1011151_zpsc8efe974.jpg (http://s1306.photobucket.com/user/_JamesT5/media/P1011151_zpsc8efe974.jpg.html)

http://i1306.photobucket.com/albums/s562/_JamesT5/P1011152_zpsf4cd9280.jpg (http://s1306.photobucket.com/user/_JamesT5/media/P1011152_zpsf4cd9280.jpg.html)

And what better way to attach the TCV/BCS but with a cable tie instead of the clip on the side......

http://i1306.photobucket.com/albums/s562/_JamesT5/P1011149_zps273f168a.jpg (http://s1306.photobucket.com/user/_JamesT5/media/P1011149_zps273f168a.jpg.html)

Copy of the AA report......

http://i1306.photobucket.com/albums/s562/_JamesT5/AAReportEdit_zpsbbd69fa0.jpg (http://s1306.photobucket.com/user/_JamesT5/media/AAReportEdit_zpsbbd69fa0.jpg.html)

On a foot note, I asked the garage whether they had topped up the PAS fluid because to me it looks rather overfilled, they deny touching this.....

http://i1306.photobucket.com/albums/s562/_JamesT5/P1011150_zps273c231e.jpg (http://s1306.photobucket.com/user/_JamesT5/media/P1011150_zps273c231e.jpg.html)

Now it's a case of where I go from here. The garage have claimed they'll put stuff right for me but can I trust them? Probably not. I'm so tempted to do what a lot of you do on here and visit GRN although that's a long way for me to go, particularly in a car that's dodgy although I'm sure Chad would put the car right at some more cost obviously.

I'm thinking of writing back the the garage after I've spoken to Consumer Direct and ask formally for a refund to cover my costs for rectification work. I've only got the hire car until Tuesday morning and I'm working Monday and Tuesday night. What a headache!

Ok, so let's see what your reactions are to this first of all and I'd be particularly interested to read reactions from well respected Volvo specialists who may be reading this also.

James

[LiamT4]

Nothing worse than taking your car somewhere to get things fixed and having it come back worse than before.

I always give people a second chance to put things right though, hopefully they will do better 2nd time around........then i'd find somewhere else to go.

[Biff]

What a mare! Hope you get it sorted soon. You must've had a belly full by now.

[silverhorse]

:wow::cussing::grumpy::(:hidesbehi:cry::help::jaw: :bricks::mad::shockedbi:slap:peepo:wallbash::mad11 1:

[claymore]

Lol, and so it continues.

[JamesT5]

What a mare! Hope you get it sorted soon. You must've had a belly full by now.

This time it's not so much the car, it's the people!

[JamesT5]

Nothing worse than taking your car somewhere to get things fixed and having it come back worse than before.

I always give people a second chance to put things right though, hopefully they will do better 2nd time around........then i'd find somewhere else to go.

That's what I was thinking. I've managed to scratch around for some Torx 25 screws and changed them for the 10mm bolts they'd shoved in the screw holes. I've managed to rebolt the rad fan housing back in to place now so at least the screw side is sorted. Now how hard was that? Perhaps I should set myself up as a Volvo Specialist...... no hang on, on second thoughts...

[theflyingbrick]

when people ask me why I do all the work myself I find myself telling them a story like this!! id go back in to the garage demand it put right and ask for a full tank of fuel to compensate for what you've lost through the leak.

[stephenevans99]

Firstly, good to see you back James :B_thumb:

I know the correct thing to do would give the 'Specialist' the opportunity to put things right, BUT I certainly wouldn't want my car anywhere near that garage again if it were mine. Not sure how realistic it would be to expect the 'Specialist' garage to refund the cost of another garage rectifying the faults - although this would be my preferred way forward.

It's a cr@p situation to be in & I feel sorry for you, but I wouldn't be taking my car back - I'd be seeking a partial refund.

[jdavis]

Firstly - welcome back

Thats shocking workmanship mate. Definately go back and seevthem. Write everything down that you are not happy with and get them to rectify it. Horror stories like these are why I try and do as much as I can myself.

[MoleT-5R]

There's a lot to be said for taking your so called specialist, if I did, I'd want recommendations from over similar vehicle owners, glad I have the facilities to carry out the work for myself, only one person to blame if it all goes tits up

[Wobbly Dave]

you have to give the trader a fair chance to fix the issues.

[MoleT-5R]

you have to give the trader a fair chance to fix the issues.

and you would have to notify him if you where still unhappy with the work carried out and where going to get another garage to fix there problems and be looking for repayment from them to cover the cost of correcting the repairs, it is likely to be a long and uncertain affair

[stephenevans99]

I think the important factor here also is that payment was made in cash....ouch. Credit Cards EVERY time !! At least you have some extra protection in form of opening a dispute.

[JUDGENINJA]

That is bad... I can sometimes understand a bolt missing, as we've all finished something with that one extra bolt! But to actually damage it or not do things up fully. That is just wrong!

Unfortunately I believe for any claim you make to the small claims court would arbitrate that you must give the garage the opportunity to put things right. Take a concise list if each item you've found to be clear in what you expect from them, including a list of parts.

[LeeT5]

I agree with Ninja ^^^^.

For a garage to be 'Specialist' in a particular make, then they need to have first hand, knowledge and lots of experience working on that particular make and more over, a technician that came from a Dealer as a master tech. Sounds to me like you had the Citroen specialist work on your car because the Volvo specialist was on holiday!

Bad luck dude. You must allow the garage to put things right AND i would seek compensation, else take him to court. You already have the evidence.

[M-R-P]

Unbelievable!

How can a business do work like that and expect to get away with it?

There's nothing I can add that's not already been added mate.

I have spare screws for most of the engine fittings, so if you need anything just let me know and I'll get it in the post asap.

[oblark]

The condition your came back in doesn`t surprice me as garage these days are just interested in get cars in and out as some as possible.

Don`t get me wrong they are some good garages out there, you just need to find one.

Me personally would do the work myself as my car has never been in a garage.

[smithy]

This is why I do all my work myself because I cannot trust garages to do the work to my standard .sorry most garages that is .

[graemewelch]

http://www.vpcuk.org/forums/showthread.php?50704-the-volvo-specialist-huddersfield

i used these guys when i got my clutch sorted. only a small outfit with two very knoldgeable guys. very resonably priced. good crack to. you know they have nothing to hide when you can sit in there work shop and watch them at work. for me a specialest only works on one make of car. like the volvo specialist only works on volvos. i wouldnt hesatate to use these guys again, mabe next time ill introduce the two bucket method

[V70 Graham]

Firstly, glad to see your back.....we had no one to pick on for a while there :redface:

Secondly, now your back no spitting the dummy again mate, as you can see (even from this thread) you have asked for peoples opinion and received some useful advice.

Thirdly, where are we....oh yes the car, I am disappointed for you that the car has come back in the condition it has. It is in a dangerous state with the fuel leak and I'm not surprised you are unhappy.
As has already been said, you need to make a list of all the things you are not happy with and give them a chance to put them right, nothing more you can do till they have had a chance to make amends.

As per your 'specialist' they quite clearly aren't dedicated Volvo specialists, though I believe garages can be proficient in more than one marque at a time, maybe not 4 though. As Lee pointed out they are very unlikely to have 4 previous master tecs from main dealers working there.

Personally with any service I use or product I buy I do plenty of research beforehand, then I ask for past customers to contact for references (in the case of services) or read product reviews on line (for products).
Yes it may take a few hours, and truth be told I probably end up paying slightly more ie not just going on the cheapest price I can get, but using this method I find has seen me right over the years.

You never did say how the clutch/gearbox is now (unless I have missed it) hope it's fine, keep us informed how you get on.

[JamesT5]

Thanks for all the advice and offers of parts, I do appreciate sensible advice as I always have done.

I agree with the comments of giving the garage chance to fix the problems first, and then if they don't I'll have the ammo to take it further.

I've managed to get enough spare bolts together to fix things back in to place as normal, I'm really pissed off about the fuel leak though and the fact that the car won't start properly first time. I'm also annoyed about the broken bit on the boost pipe so I might negotiate some money back to replace that part with a second hand bit.

I'll keep you all updated on the way things go but this may take a week or two.

As for the gearbox, the grinding has gone so at least I know my front drive won't lock up, the only thing is the replacement box is a fair bit 'notchy' in to gear so there's a change the syncros are past their best. But all things considered at least the car sounds better and I can now hear the induction filter.

As out of character as this might sound, I look forward to giving the car 'a good ragging' when it's all sorted out. I'll post pictures of the old parts soon as well - watch this space!

[Volvo_Mad]

what a mess, i'd want my money back and the car fixed mate!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[MoleT-5R]

if the gearbox is a bit notchy ,as you describe, I'll consider popping in a dose of molyslip ptfe gearbox treatment, old skool I know (lol), but check label first that it's compatable, was always an improvement in stiff gearboxs in the past and got a good few extra years out of boxes that were we'll past there sell by dates

[M-R-P]

I have the same gearbox james (2003 LK) and the gear change is slow and notchy. I doubt there's anything wrong with it, just a characteristic of that particular box. Compared to Graham's, Mr-D's Vinto's and pretty much every other Volvo's gearbox, mine's like stirring a bucket of bricks with a wooden spoon.

[JamesT5]

I have the same gearbox james (2003 LK) and the gear change is slow and notchy. I doubt there's anything wrong with it, just a characteristic of that particular box. Compared to Graham's, Mr-D's Vinto's and pretty much every other Volvo's gearbox, mine's like stirring a bucket of bricks with a wooden spoon.

Good to know then, perhaps the versions with the bigger input shaft splines are like this.

Oh, incidentally I did change my flywheel but for a second hand unit which was in pretty good condition. I paid £50 for it including a genuine Volvo clutch with hardly any wear on it (see photo of the clutch). Interestingly, the garage told me that they had to change the flywheel over because my original flywheel wouldn't fit the gearbox!

http://i1306.photobucket.com/albums/s562/_JamesT5/P1011140_zpsa6b3607e.jpg (http://s1306.photobucket.com/user/_JamesT5/media/P1011140_zpsa6b3607e.jpg.html)

This is interesting given what the gearbox centre said, and I just happened to have purchased the right flywheel by luck because I brought it based on the description of it's condition and the price. Looks like I got lucky there.

I have all the old parts back so I'll try and photograph them and put them up on here for people to see.

[M-R-P]

That clutch looks brand new mate.
With the flywheel, it's likely that they got their information from a spreadsheet rather than actual experience of the job, as most clutch/gearbox/repair firms do. There's only so much their software can tell them and cross-compatibility of parts is probably not a priority when developing software that covers every car built in the last 25 years or so.

[y2blade]

Flippingheck James, I'm lost for words!

[graemewelch]

i hope they reset the pressure plate. looks like it needs it looking at the pics. clutch will wear out quickly if they havnt

[JamesT5]

Ok, I've done a bit of self-help trouble shooting this morning so I can give the garage a little more direction on how to fix things.

You will recall me saying that the garage told me the replacement fuel sender was faulty and that the car wouldn't start? Well, I've been busy with the multimeter and carried out a continuity test on every circuit within the unit I have ready to fit to the car and I established that all circuits are healthy. Therefore, I thought it can't be the sender at all.

What's more interesting is that I couldn't initially work out why the car wouldn't fire-up properly as it did before it went in to the garage, given the current sender unit on the car was fine when I took it in apart from the faulty reading on the DIM. So, I thought this has to be engine related and I ran a diagnostic with the OBD2 reader. With this, up came the following error and it answered my problem straight away.....

"P0335 Crankshaft Position Sensor "A" Circuit"

In other words, the engine timing is out!

No wonder it won't start properly, they must have either damaged the sensor at some point although how they did this with it being next to the timing belt is anybody's guess or my other theory is backed up by some investigation I did looking at the timing belt area (see photos). There are some Tipex or paint marks on the gears or wheels that drive the timing belt. I know they mark these wheels/gears up when carrying out a timing belt change to avoid knocking the engine timing out. I noticed the marks are not aligned so I'm guessing they disturbed the engine timing when removing and refitting the flywheel to the crankshaft.

See what you think, look at these photos.....

http://i1306.photobucket.com/albums/s562/_JamesT5/P1011162_zpsa27bee1c.jpg (http://s1306.photobucket.com/user/_JamesT5/media/P1011162_zpsa27bee1c.jpg.html)

http://i1306.photobucket.com/albums/s562/_JamesT5/P1011160_zps040b5933.jpg (http://s1306.photobucket.com/user/_JamesT5/media/P1011160_zps040b5933.jpg.html)

Either way, the engine timing is the main culprit and the replacement sender unit is ok so they can fix both of these. I'll keep you posted!

[M-R-P]

The marks on the cam wheels could be from several belt changes mate - 230+k miles would mean there's been at least 3.

The crank position sensor is located....

Wait for it.....

On the engine, where it joins to the gearbox (at 12' o' clock) and gets it's signal from the flywheel.

If the timing was as far out as the marks on the belt would suggest, you'd have a sump full of bits of piston by now.

[graemewelch]

as above sensor has either been knocked. has been disconected and not connectected cercurly or it fully of fillings or its goosed, i nearly fell out my chair when i read cps was cam belt timing lol.

[JamesT5]

The marks on the cam wheels could be from several belt changes mate - 230+k miles would mean there's been at least 3.

The crank position sensor is located....

Wait for it.....

On the engine, where it joins to the gearbox (at 12' o' clock) and gets it's signal from the flywheel.

If the timing was as far out as the marks on the belt would suggest, you'd have a sump full of bits of piston by now.

Ok, sorry, I thought the big grey electrical connector to the side of the coil packs was the power for the sensor. I'll check the gearbox to see if the sensor has been plugged in - basics first! :B_thumb: :D

[graemewelch]

engine wont run if it isnt connected. more lickley it needs to be removed and cleaned. if a clean fails then with out doubt its knackered.

[M-R-P]

Ok, sorry, I thought the big grey electrical connector to the side of the coil packs was the power for the sensor. I'll check the gearbox to see if the sensor has been plugged in - basics first! :B_thumb: :D

In the first pic?

That's the VVT solenoid ;)

[Wobbly Dave]

There are 2 painted marks on the VVT cam sprocket - this is for marking the relaxed and timed up position. Mechanics often put them on the wrong side of the cams to help with realignment.

You can't possibly say that the engine timing is out without using the cam lock tool & by removing the top half of the timing belt cover. The time marks are on the other side of the cam sprocket.

You'd need to rotate the engine on the crank by hand and look at the oil pump marks on the crank & reference them to the ones on the top of the cam cover.

It is more likely that the Crankshaft position sensor (which is on top of the gearbox, next to the heater matrix return pipe) has been damaged - particularly if it has been bashed when removing the flywheel or clutch. It's pretty easy to do if you're not careful. This sensor is inductive (no contact is made). Probably needs a new sensor.

So keep your hair on & take the car back, with a list of issues & get it sorted. As for Lee suggesting that compensation is due - that's utter rubbish - what for??? Emotional distress?

Sales of Goods & Services act is quite clear - you must give the trader a fair chance to rectify. If they refuse to help then you can file a claim. You can include consequential losses.
You can only claim back court costs if it goes that far if you win. It's not a pleasant or easy process & for the sums of money involved not really worth the effort. So let's not go there just yet.

[Wobbly Dave]

Here are the marks for the Cam

http://i1279.photobucket.com/albums/y530/WobblyDave/T5%20Engine%20rebuild%20repair%20July%202013/InletCamsprocket_zps618a672c.jpg (http://s1279.photobucket.com/user/WobblyDave/media/T5%20Engine%20rebuild%20repair%20July%202013/InletCamsprocket_zps618a672c.jpg.html)

http://i1279.photobucket.com/albums/y530/WobblyDave/T5%20Engine%20rebuild%20repair%20July%202013/VVTexhaustcamsprockettimingmark_zps8ae1adbd.jpg (http://s1279.photobucket.com/user/WobblyDave/media/T5%20Engine%20rebuild%20repair%20July%202013/VVTexhaustcamsprockettimingmark_zps8ae1adbd.jpg.ht ml)

So stop flapping about with the ODB2 thing - put the tool box down & arrange an appointment to take the car back.

If you don't want to take the car back then fine - but there is no come-back - no refund & the garage in question has no legal obligation.

[Wobbly Dave]

I've highlighted the crank position sensor. Replacing it is not difficult - though it might be a little buried under breather pipes etc. It picks up the inductive castellations in the edge of the flywheel. That's how it knows where the crank is, in it's rotation cycle.

22203

As Billy at HLM said during my January engine swap - make sure you take the CrPS off when changing the flywheel.

Have you been back to see them yet?

[V70 Graham]

I've highlighted the crank position sensor. Replacing it is not difficult - though it might be a little buried under breather pipes etc. It picks up the inductive castellations in the edge of the flywheel. That's how it knows where the crank is, in it's rotation cycle.

22203



That looks quite an easy part to knock/damage.

[graemewelch]

There are 2 painted marks on the VVT cam sprocket - this is for marking the relaxed and timed up position. Mechanics often put them on the wrong side of the cams to help with realignment.

You can't possibly say that the engine timing is out without using the cam lock tool & by removing the top half of the timing belt cover. The time marks are on the other side of the cam sprocket.

You'd need to rotate the engine on the crank by hand and look at the oil pump marks on the crank & reference them to the ones on the top of the cam cover.

It is more likely that the Crankshaft position sensor (which is on top of the gearbox, next to the heater matrix return pipe) has been damaged - particularly if it has been bashed when removing the flywheel or clutch. It's pretty easy to do if you're not careful. This sensor is inductive (no contact is made). Probably needs a new sensor.

So keep your hair on & take the car back, with a list of issues & get it sorted. As for Lee suggesting that compensation is due - that's utter rubbish - what for??? Emotional distress?

Sales of Goods & Services act is quite clear - you must give the trader a fair chance to rectify. If they refuse to help then you can file a claim. You can include consequential losses.
You can only claim back court costs if it goes that far if you win. It's not a pleasant or easy process & for the sums of money involved not really worth the effort. So let's not go there just yet.


good advise WD. also worth saying i wouldnt play about with anything untill its been returned to the garage. a little knolodge in the wrong hands can be dangerous and land you in a bit more bother than your in already. if in doubt leave for some one who dose.

[silverhorse]

All sensors on all cars have the ability to go phutt. My wifes old MX 5 did a CPS and an O2 sensor. My V70 has done an O2 sensor and my Shogun has done a couple of ABS sensors. They just go, especially if they get a clatter, like yours probably has.

[JamesT5]

It's booked in for Wednesday which as soon as I can get it there. I have a spare CPS as I had one with the gearbox that I got from ebay, in fact I think the CPS on the car now might be from that gearbox so the spare I have is most likely my original.

The garage have agreed to rectify the faults at no extra charge and I'm bringing a list in too.

[graemewelch]

cps is located on engine not the gearbox

[JamesT5]

All the old parts minus the gearbox which I will attempt to open up and photograph later in the week.

Incidentally, I can't get the old flywheel to move at all like it's 'locked' in position. Anyway, the clutch was a genuine Volvo one and it looks pretty worn to me.....

http://i1306.photobucket.com/albums/s562/_JamesT5/P1011154_zps67dd52ef.jpg (http://s1306.photobucket.com/user/_JamesT5/media/P1011154_zps67dd52ef.jpg.html)

[M-R-P]

Looks pretty cooked James. Was it slipping much?

[JamesT5]

Looks pretty cooked James. Was it slipping much?

Yeah, it seemed to by when I revved the guts off the car the revs would stay up after de-clutching. The flywheel feels ok though but I can't move it at all, not left or right and it doesn't 'rock' either. Wierd!

[M-R-P]

Well the friction plate is deffo screwed, that much is obvious. Without getting my hands on the flywheel, I couldn't say how bad it is but if you say there's no movement in it, then it's not as bad as mine was. You did the right thing by changing it tho as the cost of changing it later on would be the same as the cost of changing the clutch, labor-wise.

Did you get them to change the crank seal while they were at it?

[JamesT5]

As far as I know they wouldn't have changed any seals unless I supplied them with one.

[M-R-P]

Keep checking your pcv as a monthly bit of maintenance then, an old seal will blow quicker than a new one and then you'll be looking at a gearbix/clutch/flywheel off job to put it right.

When is it due in to have the shoddy work put right?


Good to have you back by the way James, i was running out of cheesy jokes ;)

[JamesT5]

Today I've been back to the garage and here is the current situation.....

The wheel alignment has been adjusted although unlike at ATS I can't verify whether it is correct although I have my suspicions about it because the steering feels all out of balance and the car seems to be 'tram lining' far too much.

Remember those brand new wishbones I put on in September last year? Well it looks like the casing of the front bushes is separating from the wishbone or so they claim by showing me earlier (I could see the separation). They said they couldn't get the wheel alignment completely right because there is some movement in the wishbone front bushes. Not sure this will truly affect the alignment that much so the jury is out on that one.

Either way, the control arms will be under warranty but I think I might just take the car to Chad and get the control arms powerflexed, the way things are going with garages at the moment I can't trust anybody else to do a job like that because another garage will probably brake the driveshaft taking the control arm out. It seems garages around here seem to make the car worse than better which says one of two things, either the people are incompetent or these P2's are a pain in the bum to work on and are easily messed up. One advantage to a Main Stealer is the technical expertise, the downside is the price!

They claim to have pressure tested the seal around the fuel sender using a pressure tester connected to the fuel filler hole area and tested to 3 psi. They stated it is now fully sealed - great, so why didn't they do this first time around I thought! With time pressing on, I decided to brim the tank tomorrow because the last thing I wanted was a fuel leak late in the day again.

Some better news, the owner of the garage has agreed to replace my boost pipe with a new one after snapping the mount on my current one and also replace the crank sensor all for no extra charge. Graeme was right about one thing, the sensor we discussed on the gearbox is the reverse switch and not the CPS.

One new problem has cropped up tonight, just before I got home I was accelerating under full boost and the boost cut out abruptly and then came back briefly and then died off again (boost cut??), only the seatbelt stopped my smacking my head of the front window when it happened. The TCV was replaced with a genuine Volvo part straight from the Main Stealers so I wonder if that part is faulty or whether the garage have mucked about with something else. I'll plug to OBD2 reader in tomorrow to see if it has generated a code.

I also have a fear they may have damaged the air con system somewhere when removing or refitting the box, because my air con doesn't seem as cold as it did last week when I took the car in. I'm going to go to my local ATS tomorrow who to be fair, are good to me and have done me good service when I needed it. I'll ask them to check the Air con system for leaks using the UV lamp and do a pressure check and also check the wheel alignment on their machine. The Air con was only serviced in June and there was only a 15% loss in pressure in the last year so if there is a leak due to damage, that'll be another 'to fix' job on the garage list.

I'm really upset my all of this, the job was supposed to be a Gearbox change which is not exactly hard for a so-called specialist but instead the car has come back in worse condition.

I'm going to take some advice from other members here and take the car to GRN because from what I hear their working practices are bullet proof and they can sort anything. I've never been against taking it there and I've never doubted the expertise, the only issue for me is distance otherwise I would have gone there much earlier. Anyway, first things first, I'll get this garage to deliver what they promised and then sort out the other mess from there.

What a nightmare! :mad:

[M-R-P]

Interesting read mate. I'm just about to have dinner but if your about later, there's a few things I might be able to add.

[JamesT5]

Interesting read mate. I'm just about to have dinner but if your about later, there's a few things I might be able to add.

Ok thanks, we'll chat later if we're both about at the same time.

[graemewelch]

i dont see why theyd touch the aircon. the gearbox is a tight fit and is a bugger to get out and even worse to get back in, might be a small chance it got stuck on the rad pack and they yanked it but prob just bad luck. you sure your not just looking for faults and your playing mind games with your self lol. i often hear noises that arnt there in mine. always when the missus is driving it. she now refuses to drive it. im to much of a paint apparantly.

[M-R-P]

i dont see why theyd touch the aircon. the gearbox is a tight fit and is a bugger to get out and even worse to get back in, might be a small chance it got stuck on the rad pack and they yanked it but prob just bad luck. you sure your not just looking for faults and your playing mind games with your self lol. i often hear noises that arnt there in mine. always when the missus is driving it. she now refuses to drive it. im to much of a paint apparantly.

Removing the gearbox usually requires dropping the engine a little, there's a chance a A/C hose could be disturbed in the process?

[graemewelch]

they must of realy rough. when they droped my engine they dropped about 4". i think james is just the unluckiest bloke around. im sure everyone had a unlucky car. i know i have.

[M-R-P]

Little known fact - the guys who did my clutch snapped a bolt-eye off my starter motor :( I let it go as they charged me a days labor for a 2 day job when I supplied them the wrong clutch.

[graemewelch]

accidents happen. no one is perfect but its annoying if they dont come clean and own upto it. if i mess up i always hold my hands up

[volvokid]

accidents happen. no one is perfect but its annoying if they dont come clean and own upto it. if i mess up i always hold my hands up

Yeah but who would ever own up to breaking a part, i wish they would though. i wouldn't necessarily make them replace it but it would be good to know they are honnest

[M-R-P]

Yeah - talk about awkward silence - when I snapped the head off one of Graham's locking wheel bolts :yikes:

[V70 Graham]

Yeah - talk about awkward silence - when I snapped the head off one of Graham's locking wheel bolts :yikes:

.....you swung on that till it broke lol, I'm still having flashbacks, that counselling ain't cheap you know.

[stephenevans99]

Yeah - talk about awkward silence - when I snapped the head off one of Graham's locking wheel bolts :yikes:

I would've used Blue-Tac to stick it back on - it would've stayed on - Graham doesn't go fast enough for it to fall off ;)

[JamesT5]

Yeah but who would ever own up to breaking a part, i wish they would though. i wouldn't necessarily make them replace it but it would be good to know they are honnest


They haven't outright confessed to breaking anything but when they offer to buy a new top boost pipe and a new crankshaft sensor, that says a thousand words!

[stephenevans99]

Someone obviously knew it had been broken as they tried to glue it. At least they're going to replace them. A step in the right direction.

[silverhorse]

and the car seems to be 'tram lining' far too much.



You have put poly bushes on at the front haven't you James? I have put purple powerflexes on only the front of my wishbones and the first thing I noticed was slightly more tram lining. You did yours with black powerflexes I think (?), so it would be that much more noticeable.
With regard to alignment, I have just had a 4 wheel setup done by STS on their Hunter machine (what a bit of kit!!) and the car is now transformed. They also said that they only do the alignment if everything is tight and no play.

I am starting to think like you as well with regard to main dealers or specialists. More money but, in the long run, worth it. I am trying jobs myself and am starting to realise that i might just bite the bullet and pay the experts!!!!

[silverhorse]

Yeah - talk about awkward silence - when I snapped the head off one of Graham's locking wheel bolts :yikes:


I done that too. Scary!!!!!
http://i1348.photobucket.com/albums/p727/1silverhorse1/SAM_0886_zps9af97c0d.jpg (http://s1348.photobucket.com/user/1silverhorse1/media/SAM_0886_zps9af97c0d.jpg.html)

[JamesT5]

You have put poly bushes on at the front haven't you James? I have put purple powerflexes on only the front of my wishbones and the first thing I noticed was slightly more tram lining. You did yours with black powerflexes I think (?), so it would be that much more noticeable.

No, my wishbones are rubber bushes but I plan to get them Polybushed with Powerflex Black series as much as I can.

The only Polybushing I've done or have had done on my car is the Powerflex Black Series top engine mount and strut brace tension bushes (did those myself), and I now have IPD Blue Polyurethane Anti-roll bar bushes that the garage put on for me. I think these will have to come off to be greased but I can do that myself now because the clamp separates in to two parts. This means the top part can be loosened enough to slide the bushing out leaving the bolts in place and negating the need to drop the subframe! :D :B_thumb:

[JamesT5]

I done that too. Scary!!!!!
http://i1348.photobucket.com/albums/p727/1silverhorse1/SAM_0886_zps9af97c0d.jpg (http://s1348.photobucket.com/user/1silverhorse1/media/SAM_0886_zps9af97c0d.jpg.html)

I bet you went 'nuts'.... ;)

[graemewelch]

Yeah but who would ever own up to breaking a part, i wish they would though. i wouldn't necessarily make them replace it but it would be good to know they are honnest

not many i guess but if im working on a car and brake sumit i always own up. itll come back and bite you if you dont. and as you said you wouldnt be pi$$ed off if they come clean and prob wouldnt make a fuss. if a garage owned up to me id prob be more lickley to use them again. but the things mentioned in this thread is the main reason why i do as much as i can myself on my cars. electrics is the only job i cant do or would even attempt. but space often stops me from doing jobs i wanted to do my self. like when i got my clutch fitted. but i was able to supervise them on that job.

[JamesT5]

Filled it up today, the fuel gauge still says 1/2 a tank when full even though it's a different sender unit (it was marked up on top so I know it's the replacement unit). The main thing is there is no more fuel leaking out so I'm back to where I started with it on that side of things anyway.

[graemewelch]

could be the pointer on your clocks thats sticking or could be worn tracks on the rear.

[M-R-P]

could be the pointer on your clocks thats sticking or could be worn tracks on the rear.

They're completely digital mate, if it fails it goes completely rather than playing up.

Maybe resetting the car (pull the negative for a couple of hours) will help it recalibrate?

[graemewelch]

They're completely digital mate, if it fails it goes completely rather than playing up.

Maybe resetting the car (pull the negative for a couple of hours) will help it recalibrate?

im still a bit old school with some things. for reset remove both battery connection and hold poss and neg together for 90 sec. dont let them touch battery. thatll drain any charge left in any ecus or those other things i cant remember the name of

[M-R-P]

Not sure if that's a good idea with a P2 but you are supposed to have the key in position II before reconnecting the battery as there's been reports of all the airbags deploying :yikes:

[graemewelch]

Not sure if that's a good idea with a P2 but you are supposed to have the key in position II before reconnecting the battery as there's been reports of all the airbags deploying :yikes:

i was told to doit by a well known volvo tuner. done it a few times with no issues

[M-R-P]

Fair enough ;)

[merc85]

Id say the fuel sender is faulty tbh, had this with a few cheap aftermarket unit's, what sort of quality was the replacement?

[JamesT5]

Id say the fuel sender is faulty tbh, had this with a few cheap aftermarket unit's, what sort of quality was the replacement?

It's a genuine second hand Volvo unit and it was sent to me last year by someone on ebay who supplied my first one that also gave the same reading. In other words, the replacement unit they sent me gives the same reading. The only dead cert is to buy a new unit from a Stealers and have them fit it, that way if it is a dodgy reading I know it's not the sender unit itself.

[Fubar1977]

I done that too. Scary!!!!!
http://i1348.photobucket.com/albums/p727/1silverhorse1/SAM_0886_zps9af97c0d.jpg (http://s1348.photobucket.com/user/1silverhorse1/media/SAM_0886_zps9af97c0d.jpg.html)

That photo has just prompted me to finally order 4 standard bolts to replace the dodgy locking nuts on mine.
£8 from my friendly main dealer and free delivery, not too shabby.
He`d have given me a set if I could have been bothered to drive over.
Dan at Ray Chapman Volvo you are a top bloke!

[JamesT5]

I phoned the garage up today and just felt I was being slightly fobbed off as I will explain.....

Spoke to a "Fitter" from the workshop who answered the phone (they do refer to them as 'Fitters' there which concerns me somewhat), anyway he said he thinks the Boost pipe is there but not the Crank sensor. 10 minutes later...... the receptionist phones me back, "The boost pipe is here, your crank sensor should be here either tomorrow or Monday". I then replied by stating this car is my daily runner and it's getting worse everyday so it's kind of urgent. "Let me speak to Ian (the owner) and I'll get back to you".

So I carry on with what I was doing, then around 30 minutes later the phone goes again, it was the receptionist (who as it so happens is also the owners girlfriend)....

"Hi, I've spoken to Ian, he's got a sensor for you but the earliest we can fit it is Monday...". So I'm thinking at this point, have they actually got my sensor or have they just ordered my sensor and are trying to put me off until Monday knowing they haven't got it? I explained to them that when parts are ordered from Volvo they either turn up the same day or the next day at the latest, and asked them why it was taking so long to get the most critical part.

I know you'll always catch a liar so I said to them, "How long will it take to fit the sensor and the boost pipe?", the receptionist replies "About an hour.." :yikes:

This isn't right I thought, so I said... "Well the boost pipe will take about 5 minutes because it's held on by two jubilee clips and the crank sensor just plugs in around the gearbox area near to the flywheel". Thinking they may not actually have my sensor and to test out a theory I then went on to say...

"I tell you what, I'll come over tomorrow and fetch the sensor and the boost pipe and I'll fit them at home myself"......(slight hesitation by the receptionist at this point)...."Ok..... that shouldn't be a problem......"

Now, my bet is if they haven't got my CPS in yet then they come up with an excuse tomorrow that they ordered it but the supplier has sent the wrong one (I wasn't born yesterday!). But, if the part is there, I'm really annoyed that they aren't prepared to pull their finger out and get it fitted for me given it's their fault for mucking me around in the first place and leaving me with an embarrassing situation every time I go to start my car. You'd think they'd be giving me top priority in this rather than making me wait until the next week to sort it out. And I told them, I'm back at work in Sunday so I need this fixed asap!

Not looking good really is it! :mad:

[graemewelch]

youll never be priority to them as youve already paid your bill unlike the garage full of cars they have. 1 hr sounds about right to me. fitting the cps will be a pain as access isnt easy and youll prob need to move a few pipes to get at it. then your going to need extra long arms. theyll know your never going to return as a custermer so theyll be in no hurry id say. theyll prob see it as do i fit those parts on the volvo and upset another custermer cause his car isnt finished on time or tell the twisty volvo bloke to come back next week

[JamesT5]

youll never be priority to them as youve already paid your bill unlike the garage full of cars they have. 1 hr sounds about right to me. fitting the cps will be a pain as access isnt easy and youll prob need to move a few pipes to get at it. then your going to need extra long arms. theyll know your never going to return as a custermer so theyll be in no hurry id say. theyll prob see it as do i fit those parts on the volvo and upset another custermer cause his car isnt finished on time or tell the twisty volvo bloke to come back next week

Doesn't look that hard to me.....

http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/eurotec/2010-09-06_230435_Removing_the_engine_speed.pdf

[graemewelch]

never said was hard but access is limited. youll see

[JamesT5]

never said was hard but access is limited. youll see

I've got long arms, shear guts and determination and a desire to get this fixed before Sunday morning.

[JamesT5]

By the way, my anti-roll bar IPD bushes are still squeaking (no grease which proves my point to the garage), and there is a nasty knocking sound over some bumps coming from the ARB. Time to jack the car up this coming week and take a look......

[stephenevans99]

Did you have Black polybushes fitted to the wishbones? Those Black poly wishbone bushes ARE very unforgiving apparently - just to keep this in mind that you will feel at lot more over bumps etc.

[JamesT5]

Did you have Black polybushes fitted to the wishbones? Those Black poly wishbone bushes ARE very unforgiving apparently - just to keep this in mind that you will feel at lot more over bumps etc.

No, I want them fitted to the wishbones, that's just my point. :)

[JamesT5]

Update for today....

I've changed the CPS and unfortunately the car still doesn't crank over first time, although to look at the state of the old sensor you'd think they'd given it to the dog to chew.

Old sensor (bashed to hell)...

http://i1306.photobucket.com/albums/s562/_JamesT5/P1011187_zpsbc073b82.jpg (http://s1306.photobucket.com/user/_JamesT5/media/P1011187_zpsbc073b82.jpg.html)

http://i1306.photobucket.com/albums/s562/_JamesT5/P1011188_zps34cf4828.jpg (http://s1306.photobucket.com/user/_JamesT5/media/P1011188_zps34cf4828.jpg.html)

Anyway, the following photos show the location of the CPS (for reference in case anyone needs or wants to know and doesn't), it's situated to the right of the engine on the passenger side but to the left of the air intake hose and it hidden under the vacuum hoses. It's held in by a 10mm bolt but you'll probably need to remove the 3 x 12mm bolts holding the metal plate with the holes in it as well, first to get access.....

http://i1306.photobucket.com/albums/s562/_JamesT5/P1011183_zpseb71ac21.jpg (http://s1306.photobucket.com/user/_JamesT5/media/P1011183_zpseb71ac21.jpg.html)

This photo shows the hole in to which the sensor is inserted...

http://i1306.photobucket.com/albums/s562/_JamesT5/P1011189_zpsbd8afd55.jpg (http://s1306.photobucket.com/user/_JamesT5/media/P1011189_zpsbd8afd55.jpg.html)

It's plugged in under the inlet manifold, see the 2 side-by-side grey connectors in the middle of the photo below, it's the lower connector that you need to unplug. The wiring is tucked in behind some hoses and is tethered by some open ended plastic clamps.......

http://i1306.photobucket.com/albums/s562/_JamesT5/P1011185_zpsb9d38c8c.jpg (http://s1306.photobucket.com/user/_JamesT5/media/P1011185_zpsb9d38c8c.jpg.html)

I also changed my old broken boost/charge pipe for the new one and now everything is back in place.......

http://i1306.photobucket.com/albums/s562/_JamesT5/P1011182_zpse6bbb5f5.jpg (http://s1306.photobucket.com/user/_JamesT5/media/P1011182_zpse6bbb5f5.jpg.html)

http://i1306.photobucket.com/albums/s562/_JamesT5/P1011181_zps541ddd1e.jpg (http://s1306.photobucket.com/user/_JamesT5/media/P1011181_zps541ddd1e.jpg.html)

Just got to get to the bottom of why the car won't fire up properly despite the new sensor (yes it is plugged in correctly). I wonder of the engine timing is out because DTC P0335 'Crankshaft Position Sensor "A" Circuit' hasn't come back.......... :confused:

Other than that not a bad afternoons work, next chance I get (next week) I'm changing the fuel filter (you should see the condition of my current one) and also dropping the engine coolant and refilling it with the Volvo stuff 50/50 with water. I also have the bulbs to go behind the buttons on the A/C and Heater switches as a few of mine have blown. I couldn't believe the price of them though - £4.00 a bulb!!! :yikes:

[graemewelch]

your not going to like this but your more than likley going to need volvo software to get to bottom of your latest issue. itll be money well spent on your motor and sumit youll use regulary if your historybis anything to go by.

[stribo]

I doubt the timing is out, because they won't have had the timing belt off. As Graeme's said, only VIDA/DICE is likely to give you the answer.

[jdavis]

if you are ever near Doncaster James you are welcome to plug it into my PC to see what results it shows

[silverhorse]

I agree with Graeme, James. If there is one person on this forum that NEEDS VIDA, it's you!!!:redface:
It allows to to try things in a 'trial and error' way with the comfort of knowing you can get rid of any nasty lights that come on.
Best £100 I have spent.

[V70 Graham]

+1 for the VIDA

It WILL be money well spent, the only guaranteed way to tell you exactly what's up.

[M-R-P]

Just have a look at the New tcv and make sure it's plumbed in correctly.

The metal port is the feed from the compressor housing, the port on the other end is the vent to the inlet and the port at 90 degrees to the others is the feed to the wastegate actuator. Incorrect plumbing of these pipes could cause weird reactions from the me7.

[JamesT5]

The garage that did the work have Vida because the owner admitted it, so they could easily find this problem but I wonder if they're scared of spending more money. The guy on the parts desk at the Stealers kindly tipped me off about the cost of the parts they have had to fork out for already and it was £120 + the Chancellors cut.

[LeeT5]

Any chance of a video please James? Also, can you be more specific? First your say it won't 'crank' over straight away.....then you say it won't fire up!

I'm confused? Have you fixed it or not?

[JamesT5]

Any chance of a video please James? Also, can you be more specific? First your say it won't 'crank' over straight away.....then you say it won't fire up!

I'm confused? Have you fixed it or not?

Basically the starter motor runs, the engine just makes that turning over noise (like you get with the 'Start Prevented' situation), and the RPM needle spikes to 4K or 3K or whatever it wants to now and again.

I've been back to see the owner of the garage today and he seems to think it's electrical interference or some sort of earthing issue. He's booked me back in for the 2nd of September (that's the earliest I could get the car to him) and he said he'll go right through the car with Vida again and do some tests to establish the cause of the issue.

Although the job was a balls up, I'll be fair to the guy and give him credit where it's due and say he has made a decent attempt to put the problems right and forked out a 3 figure sum for replacement parts at his expense. Then there's the extra labour he's had to pay out and there's more to come a week on Monday. His guys may have made a hash of the job initially (and yes I'm annoyed at that), but he has and is doing his best so far to fix it.

[V70 Graham]

Fair play James, at least your giving him credit for the job he's doing now.

[stribo]

Your rev counter shouldn't be reading 3-4k whilst cranking, it should just come of the bottom of the dial.

[graemewelch]

daft question but whats the condition of your battery. is it good. once a battery loses it ability to hold enough charge it can cause all kinds of probs. try getting a mate to connect some jump leads to your battery and try that, also have a look at the positive terminal under the bonnet. i think its on the passanger side

[graemewelch]

just put a new battery on mine. wasnt holding charge for more than a day after sitting for a few months. with old battery the was on constantly. new battery fitted and its fine

[LeeT5]

daft question but whats the condition of your battery. is it good. once a battery loses it ability to hold enough charge it can cause all kinds of probs. try getting a mate to connect some jump leads to your battery and try that, also have a look at the positive terminal under the bonnet. i think its on the passanger side

Yes it is a daft question!

If the engine cranks ok, without petering out within 15 seconds then i can already confirm, it has nothing to do with the battery. Applying jump leads will make no difference.

I agree with the mechanic about maybe a possible earth fault. However, its very easy to get misled. Start with the basics as 9 out of 10 times its nearly always something simple.

Battery voltage above 12.5v before crank. If below 12.2v then you need to charge and test! Any battery showing voltage below 12.2v is technically Discharged.
If engine cranks ok, check for rpm signal. Should be 200-300rpm on 'live readings' when cranking.
If you have an rpm signal then one must assume (at this point that you have a spark, switching at the injectors and 4-6amps draw on the fuel pump circuit.
you must also have 12v at the MAF and also 5v at the MAF.
(If any of these are not present, then the car will never start!!)

12v means that the main relay is powered up and live and 5v means that the CEM/ECM are live and powered up.

A bad earth will give you sporadic faults and intermittent symptoms - but they will be easily identifiable on AUTODATA. It will list the Earth points on your car and thus, your mechanic bloke should be able to check resistance at each one. Any voltdrop above 0.5v will indicate a bad earth and a potential problem.
Undo said earth point, derust, wirebrush and electro lube it, then retighten.

then check if the car starts again.

If your mechanic is worth his salt, then he'll know all this anyway. :D

[JamesT5]

daft question but whats the condition of your battery. is it good. once a battery loses it ability to hold enough charge it can cause all kinds of probs. try getting a mate to connect some jump leads to your battery and try that, also have a look at the positive terminal under the bonnet. i think its on the passanger side

Battery is fine, only 12 months old with a 3 year warranty. Besides, if the battery was knackered it wouldn't even try and start because there would be nothing to power the starter motor.

[graemewelch]

Battery is fine, only 12 months old with a 3 year warranty. Besides, if the battery was knackered it wouldn't even try and start because there would be nothing to power the starter motor.

i meant was it not supplying enough amps. was only a suggestion.

[graemewelch]

Yes it is a daft question!

If the engine cranks ok, without petering out within 15 seconds then i can already confirm, it has nothing to do with the battery. Applying jump leads will make no difference.

I agree with the mechanic about maybe a possible earth fault. However, its very easy to get misled. Start with the basics as 9 out of 10 times its nearly always something simple.

Battery voltage above 12.5v before crank. If below 12.2v then you need to charge and test! Any battery showing voltage below 12.2v is technically Discharged.
If engine cranks ok, check for rpm signal. Should be 200-300rpm on 'live readings' when cranking.
If you have an rpm signal then one must assume (at this point that you have a spark, switching at the injectors and 4-6amps draw on the fuel pump circuit.
you must also have 12v at the MAF and also 5v at the MAF.
(If any of these are not present, then the car will never start!!)

12v means that the main relay is powered up and live and 5v means that the CEM/ECM are live and powered up.

A bad earth will give you sporadic faults and intermittent symptoms - but they will be easily identifiable on AUTODATA. It will list the Earth points on your car and thus, your mechanic bloke should be able to check resistance at each one. Any voltdrop above 0.5v will indicate a bad earth and a potential problem.
Undo said earth point, derust, wirebrush and electro lube it, then retighten.

then check if the car starts again.

If your mechanic is worth his salt, then he'll know all this anyway. :D

i love your answers lee. least you get a proper reply to why im wrong and not a daft reply

[jardon]

Basically the starter motor runs, the engine just makes that turning over noise (like you get with the 'Start Prevented' situation), and the RPM needle spikes to 4K or 3K or whatever it wants to now and again.

I've been back to see the owner of the garage today and he seems to think it's electrical interference or some sort of earthing issue. He's booked me back in for the 2nd of September (that's the earliest I could get the car to him) and he said he'll go right through the car with Vida again and do some tests to establish the cause of the issue.

Although the job was a balls up, I'll be fair to the guy and give him credit where it's due and say he has made a decent attempt to put the problems right and forked out a 3 figure sum for replacement parts at his expense. Then there's the extra labour he's had to pay out and there's more to come a week on Monday. His guys may have made a hash of the job initially (and yes I'm annoyed at that), but he has and is doing his best so far to fix it.

Starter motor. It's drawing to much current on cranking which means the ECU thinks there is an electrical fault - always throws a crank position code and sends the rev counter all over the place as the crank sensor churns out spurious data. It may sound ok on cranking but mine was identical and there are plenty of others with the same issue. DiCE helped me diagnose mine as I could plot the (brand new) battery voltage as it fell to ~7 volts on cranking due to starter motor failing. It shouldn't get anywhere near that low. I may have a good spare starter if you'd like to try it out.

OR, nasty voltage drop in the starter circuit. http://www.aa1car.com/library/voltage_drop_testing.htm

My money is on the starter motor failing though. http://forums.t5d5.org/topic/19463-hard-hot-starting/

[Gold 'N' Brown]

Battery is fine, only 12 months old with a 3 year warranty. Besides, if the battery was knackered it wouldn't even try and start because there would be nothing to power the starter motor.

Please don't take this the wrong way (just some constructive criticism). Don't assume that that a 1 year old battery must be fine simply due to it's age. Nor does the 3 year warranty mean anything, except obviously the fact that you can get it replaced if it fails within that time. Your answer above implies that you've made an assumption that the battery is fine based on it's age.

Given the amount of problems you've had with the car, and a possible tendency to jump to conclusions, then I would encourage you to check things thoroughly and logically and not to make assumptions. It's the only way. Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting for one moment that you may have a problem with your battery, I'm merely interpreting from you reply above that you may be making assumptions about other factors rather than validating the symptoms and checking things off the list.

Apart from that, hat's off to you for sticking with it, working through a lot of these things yourself, and good luck getting it sorted :B_thumb:

[silverhorse]

Starter motor. It's drawing to much current on cranking which means the ECU thinks there is an electrical fault - always throws a crank position code and sends the rev counter all over the place as the crank sensor churns out spurious data. It may sound ok on cranking but mine was identical and there are plenty of others with the same issue. DiCE helped me diagnose mine as I could plot the (brand new) battery voltage as it fell to ~7 volts on cranking due to starter motor failing. It shouldn't get anywhere near that low. I may have a good spare starter if you'd like to try it out.

OR, nasty voltage drop in the starter circuit. http://www.aa1car.com/library/voltage_drop_testing.htm

My money is on the starter motor failing though. http://forums.t5d5.org/topic/19463-hard-hot-starting/

Thats interesting and worth remembering for the time that it inevitably happens to me!! Cheers