4.4 ecu free tuning???

[Biff]

I've been doing a lot of reading as of late about remaps & ecu compatability. I've heard of turbo tuner & guess its for pre obd2 cars but just wondering if anyone has used any of the tools surrounding a vag-com wire.
There seems to be a few theads on volvospeed & other forums & it does make some sense although I wouldn't trust myself to make a map, I would trust myself to "flash" a map. Most of the maps I've seen are to the same spec as mine for manual t5's but for the £20 or so for the lead & links to software it does seem good... But too good to be true?
Seems its pretty popular with the techno geek yanks but I can find very limited info in this country. Guess this is why HLM maps are cheap (£150) on pre me7 cars?
I await your comments, info & suggestions kind sirs..... :)

[jamesy12345]

Interested but no skills here

21927

[Biff]

Here's the link to what I've seen;
http://volvospeed.com/vs_forum/topic/159506-tuners-rejoice-free-tuning-for-m44/

[Dangerous Dave]

The problem with M4.4 is different ecus have different map locations, though it's easy enough to compare two maps in WinOLS to find the

You can use Motronic Suite to a greater effect (as more of the maps are listed in the program) but it can't flash M4.4 it can only do M4.3 and further development of motronic suite has stopped at the moment. So you could use motronic suite to edit the maps and flash them with the flasher tool in that thread.

Once you get into it finding the maps is really easy. The hard part is editing them to get the best results, which is what you pay for from an ECU tuner. Though I would have thought that after 16 years the price of a map would be a lot cheaper considering its just 64kb or 128kb of data :/

If you look really deep you can find the maps

And you can get turbo tuner for 4.3 or 4.4 cars.

[Biff]

The problem with M4.4 is different ecus have different map locations, though it's easy enough to compare two maps in WinOLS to find the

You can use Motronic Suite to a greater effect (as more of the maps are listed in the program) but it can't flash M4.4 it can only do M4.3 and further development of motronic suite has stopped at the moment. So you could use motronic suite to edit the maps and flash them with the flasher tool in that thread.

Once you get into it finding the maps is really easy. The hard part is editing them to get the best results, which is what you pay for from an ECU tuner. Though I would have thought that after 16 years the price of a map would be a lot cheaper considering its just 64kb or 128kb of data :/
Cheers for that mate, I thought to myself it wasn't really a lot of data but guess your paying for the tried & tested route. :(
I understood what was said about advancing the timing etc & the codes but its a load of numbers that could be very hit & miss. Lol
I have had it mentioned about putting an older ecu on it & it being cheaper by a lad who knows his stuff. I'll certainly be speaking to him about it.
It would be a damn site cheaper than having a different custom map after big mods as I plan in due course.

[Dangerous Dave]

Cheers for that mate, I thought to myself it wasn't really a lot of data but guess your paying for the tried & tested route. :(
I understood what was said about advancing the timing etc & the codes but its a load of numbers that could be very hit & miss. Lol
I have had it mentioned about putting an older ecu on it & it being cheaper by a lad who knows his stuff. I'll certainly be speaking to him about it.
It would be a damn site cheaper than having a different custom map after big mods as I plan in due course.
You would have to do your own maps with turbo tuner anyway, starting with a base map and changing to suit, so the DIY route is essentially the same (except with TT you can change maps on the fly). The other way is with the Ostrich emulator and Tunerpro (as said on the Volvospeed website) but again you have to risk your own mapping skills.

[Biff]

Don't think they will be my mapping skills! Lol
We have a local company called BD performance who specialize in focus st & rs. They have a really good reputation with tuning the fords & when I spoke to Darren he mentioned it as did Shem from Shemtek racing in Nottingham.
I'll speak to Darren & see if he fancies a crack, it could be done on the rolling road to.

[jamesy12345]

there are loads of words in the link there that I don't understand. I've done some programming before in BASIC and such but that looks like rocket science. Will take a few cups of tea and maybe even some chocolate biscuits this one.

I was wondering that also: after I get the ECU flashed with a 'known' map, what comes next......especially if something falls off and I want to make it better

[MoleT-5R]

liking the idea of flashing your own map, as this could be the final answer in my v70r awd (p1 ph3) manual conversion, how could I read of the existing data on the existing ecu and would it be in an understandable format or just a jumble of hex or the like?

[Dream3r]

The problem with M4.4 is different ecus have different map locations, though it's easy enough to compare two maps in WinOLS to find the

You can use Motronic Suite to a greater effect (as more of the maps are listed in the program) but it can't flash M4.4 it can only do M4.3 and further development of motronic suite has stopped at the moment. So you could use motronic suite to edit the maps and flash them with the flasher tool in that thread.

Once you get into it finding the maps is really easy. The hard part is editing them to get the best results, which is what you pay for from an ECU tuner. Though I would have thought that after 16 years the price of a map would be a lot cheaper considering its just 64kb or 128kb of data :/

If you look really deep you can find the maps

And you can get turbo tuner for 4.3 or 4.4 cars.

You can flash M4.4, just not READ both memory banks mate, they went from 64 to 128k from the M4.3

You'd all be MAD to buy turbo tuner whilst this is free. Stage one on these cars is simple enough just up the boost map is basically what most tuners do for a stage 1.

I've posted the damos files for m4.4 on T5D5 and there is an XDF file on the Volvospeed forum, with time and a bit of reading and a £5 eBay cable you'll be sorted.

Me7 is next :D then ME9.

[Biff]

You can flash M4.4, just not READ both memory banks mate, they went from 64 to 128k from the M4.3

You'd all be MAD to buy turbo tuner whilst this is free. Stage one on these cars is simple enough just up the boost map is basically what most tuners do for a stage 1.

I've posted the damos files for m4.4 on T5D5 and there is an XDF file on the Volvospeed forum, with time and a bit of reading and a £5 eBay cable you'll be sorted.

Me7 is next :D then ME9.

I thought I'd got my wires crossed, I knew I'd seen a file for the 4.4! Next on the list is a laptop! Lol
It was on Volvo speed & t5d5 I read it. Be great to do a spot of mapping on mine if you reckon it's simple. Cheers.

[Biff]

liking the idea of flashing your own map, as this could be the final answer in my v70r awd (p1 ph3) manual conversion, how could I read of the existing data on the existing ecu and would it be in an understandable format or just a jumble of hex or the like?
I see your point, save going through the hassle of a manual loom get a manual map?

[Dream3r]

It's very simple for a stage 1 or 2 map. You need a wideband to go nuts though.

[Dream3r]

I'll help anyone tune there ME4.4 cars, time providing, as long as the tune is open source after.

[Biff]

I'm unfamiliar with the various stages but I'd like to see 280-290bhp eventually when the awd is fixed. I'm very interested but need me a home computer of some type to open the files for a browse.
Fair play to you for sitting down & working through this. The more I've read the more it appeals to me.

[Dream3r]

The stages, I mean just a remap or a remap with exhaust. Those are simple enough for the hobbyist to have a crack at.

I seen a tune recently that had one map changed, and was from a pro tuner, so it made me wonder about the rest.

This was a supposed stage 3 map, and I tweaked it for the owner as the boost was building too fast. Some stage 3 file.

[jamesy12345]

The more I've read the more it appeals to me.

and me....one of the main reasons for getting a 70-series car was more scope for $$$$ing about with ECUs. One of the 400-series gurus did a couple of ECUs for me and that was the start of it.

I'm waiting for delivery of a TME ECU which is supposed to be good for 420 Nm. That is the same as a stage 3 MTE map I think.

21936

That is about as good as it gets on my motor without changing injectors/turbo/cams/etc....? If I am wrong shoot me down pls

Found some more info below....

http://volvospeed.com/vs_forum/topic/140233-motronic-44-overview/

[jamesy12345]

that is expensive!

http://shop.mte.se/product.asp?product=87

MTE stage 3 says 430 Nm...close enough

[Dream3r]

and me....one of the main reasons for getting a 70-series car was more scope for $$$$ing about with ECUs. One of the 400-series gurus did a couple of ECUs for me and that was the start of it.

I'm waiting for delivery of a TME ECU which is supposed to be good for 420 Nm. That is the same as a stage 3 MTE map I think.

21936

That is about as good as it gets on my motor without changing injectors/turbo/cams/etc....? If I am wrong shoot me down pls

Found some more info below....

http://volvospeed.com/vs_forum/topic/140233-motronic-44-overview/

You won't be able to read your eeprom without desoldering it on m4.4.

[jamesy12345]

You won't be able to read your eeprom without desoldering it on m4.4.

lol u read my mind....

[Dangerous Dave]

You can flash M4.4, just not READ both memory banks mate, they went from 64 to 128k from the M4.3
Ahh, my mistake. Its all good then :D :D

[Dangerous Dave]

Just been reading the Volvospeed thread, the map switching looks interesting, will give it a go as soon as I can :D

[Biff]

Does that mean its possible to run 2 maps & switch between them?

[Dangerous Dave]

Does that mean its possible to run 2 maps & switch between them?
Indeed it does :D Looks like currently you go to full throttle and back with the ignition on to change the maps, but think development on a switch is being looked at.

And it isn't limited to two maps (though you need to select them via serial interface) :)

[jamesy12345]

Well that took some finding...

http://www.yumpu.com/en/document/view/3792172/volvo-motronic-m44-trionic-suites

Also, a link to explain hexadecimal stuff....FF = 255 km/h

http://tunerpro.net/tutorials/UnderstandingHex.htm

[Biff]

Indeed it does :D Looks like currently you go to full throttle and back with the ignition on to change the maps, but think development on a switch is being looked at.

And it isn't limited to two maps (though you need to select them via serial interface) :)
That would be lovely combined with the blitz ebc I'm supposed to be having off a mate.
Jamesy me thinks a fair bit of revising will be done on nights! Lol

[jamesy12345]

You won't be able to read your eeprom without desoldering it on m4.4.

So...as above soon I will have a couple of mapped ECUs from known companies....to compare the Volvo mapping to the modified version I would need to de-solder the EPROM chip, stick it in one of these (recommended on Volvospeed somewhere but I am just using it for example):

http://www.mcumall.com/comersus/store/comersus_viewItem.asp?idProduct=4219

Then read off the map and save it somehow using Motronic Suite, WinOLS or similar, pen/paper whatever

THEN I guess get Volvo to return the map to standard. Which they may or may not want to do if they are aware that the ECU has been opened. Or get hold of an equivalent stock ECU and de-solder etc.

I'm not talking about making the hard work of tuners freely available to all cos I don't own the intellectual property. But I do own the ECUs and want to have a look in detail at something that I will have paid for - modifications to the Volvo mapping.

If I ever get through all of the above then this should help me gain some knowledge on actually tuning something myself...which I am a long way from at the moment :B_newbie:

[jamesy12345]

n
That would be lovely combined with the blitz ebc I'm supposed to be having off a mate.
Jamesy me thinks a fair bit of revising will be done on nights! Lol

Yes mate I am reading up now cos 'between' jobs right now :D

No doubt a pretty girl will walk past or the sun will come out and I'll get distracted again

[Dangerous Dave]

So...as above soon I will have a couple of mapped ECUs from known companies....to compare the Volvo mapping to the modified version I would need to de-solder the EPROM chip, stick it in one of these (recommended on Volvospeed somewhere but I am just using it for example):
http://www.mcumall.com/comersus/store/comersus_viewItem.asp?idProduct=4219
Then read off the map and save it somehow using Motronic Suite, WinOLS or similar, pen/paper whatever

Its a pity you're not closer as I've got a willem programmer board I use to do all my chip flashing.

Found a UK based one (cheap too)
http://www.c-u-s.co.uk/willem-programmer-pcb5-0/prod_47.html

Oh and also its worth noting that some boards need a parallel port (like in the link above) to connect to and most computers these days don't come with parallel ports as they are hardly used nowadays. There are some usb boards available but they cost more AFAIK. If you have an old computer with winxp you're sorted :D

The standard Volvo maps are bundled in with Motronic suite if you wanted to return it to standard.

HTH

[Doingitsideways]

No doubt a pretty girl will walk past or the sun will come out and I'll get distracted again

She gonna bend over your 460 again?! ;)

[jamesy12345]

Its a pity you're not closer as I've got a willem programmer board I use to do all my chip flashing.

Found a UK based one (cheap too)
http://www.c-u-s.co.uk/willem-programmer-pcb5-0/prod_47.html

Oh and also its worth noting that some boards need a parallel port (like in the link above) to connect to and most computers these days don't come with parallel ports as they are hardly used nowadays. There are some usb boards available but they cost more AFAIK. If you have an old computer with winxp you're sorted :D

The standard Volvo maps are bundled in with Motronic suite if you wanted to return it to standard.

HTH

Sorry, missed this thread. Thanks very much Dave I may take you up on that. Apart from trying to start a new job, I got distracted and started reading up on Bosch LH Jetronic and EZK ECUs....like what is fitted in the 400-series cars and some models of the older Porche engines. One ECU controls the fuel and the other ignition & boost in my case. I'm interested but just haven't got the skills....it might be a good idea (for me) to start off with Jetronic 2.2 before attempting something like 4.4.

The EZ210K ECU in my 460 has been fiddled with to make the boost come in a little earlier and go higher. But the stock fuel mapping, controlled by the LH 2.2 ECU, hasn't been changed so maybe there is a little bit of scope for fiddling with that. I'm off topic now I know.

In any case I think the first job of seeing if there is a little more power with any tune would be an AFR gauge or some means of reading this ratio. On the 70-series cars I think some of the OBD software can do this like OBDWiz Professional. Since this thread is all about DIY:

http://www.scirocco.org/tech/misc/afgauge/af.html

A bit rough but at least a starting point :). My plan is to knock this up, as there is no OBD socket on my 460, then maybe see what is the effect of adding a little more fuel by adjusting the mapping as we talked about above. I have a spare ECU ready to go for this just need to get the EPROM chip out and read the map. Easy to say :)


She gonna bend over your 460 again?! ;)

Only if I can find her in Peterlee again :D

[jamesy12345]

...I have a spare ECU ready to go for this just need to get the EPROM chip out and read the map...

Some links associated with that train of thought....

http://saabworld.net/f5/lh2-2-tweaking-diary-403/

http://www.batronix.com/shop/programmer/BX32/eprom-programmer.html

http://www.futurlec.com/Memory/2732A-200.shtml

Maybe I should start another thread here for LH 2.2....

[Doingitsideways]

Only if I can find her in Peterlee again :D

Nah, I'll be wearing her like a hat!! ;)

I'd be interested to see if you come up with anything for 2.2 James, not much about for us old-skoolers any more! :(

Steve

[Dangerous Dave]

Good luck! At least with the LH its just fuelling you have to deal with, though m4.4 isn't hard to do, as dream3r says some pro maps only have the boost map changed.

Have you seen the LH editor that was made by ipdown on ecuproject.com?

Been following the VS thread a lot and picking through my ecu in more detail, this is when I realised my ecu is actually for an automatic gearbox car :/ so will be flashing the manual software and seeing how much difference it makes. I know the engine has been changed, I wonder whether it had a remapped ecu at some point and someone popped an auto one in when they sold the car. It runs ok with the auto ecu, but there are different parameters like boost control in lower gears that aren't enabled with the auto ecu.

[jamesy12345]

Good luck! At least with the LH its just fuelling you have to deal with, though m4.4 isn't hard to do, as dream3r says some pro maps only have the boost map changed.

Have you seen the LH editor that was made by ipdown on ecuproject.com?

Been following the VS thread a lot and picking through my ecu in more detail, this is when I realised my ecu is actually for an automatic gearbox car :/ so will be flashing the manual software and seeing how much difference it makes. I know the engine has been changed, I wonder whether it had a remapped ecu at some point and someone popped an auto one in when they sold the car. It runs ok with the auto ecu, but there are different parameters like boost control in lower gears that aren't enabled with the auto ecu.

Thanks, I joined ECUproject a few weeks ago and got the status of Junior Tuner :D :D....will have a look for LH editor

I have a couple of auto 4.4 ECUs now you are welcome to compare if it is any use


Nah, I'll be wearing her like a hat!! ;)

I'd be interested to see if you come up with anything for 2.2 James, not much about for us old-skoolers any more! :(

Steve

LOL I thought you preferred celebrities?? If I come up with something worth reading will make a thread. Smithy on here runs a 940 with LH ECU...not sure if it is 2.2 or 2.4 will ask him.

Steve if we can arrange it somehow have a go of mine in your 460. My modified EZ210K ECU that is, I don't want to be your next hat

[Doingitsideways]

I don't want to be your next hat

I actually just spat a gob full of "35p Whoop-Ass" (cheap rip off of...Erm, I'm gonna say Beige Rhino) all over my windscreen. That's gonna go sticky me thinks!!

I don't want you to be my next hat!! :D

Well, if you're trusting enough to send a random Mancunian your ECU to play with and honestly think you'll get it back once I've seen the difference, then fair play to ya fella!!

Oh, Smithy's 140bhp 940 will be LH2.4.

Steve :)

[jamesy12345]

I actually just spat a gob full of "35p Whoop-Ass" (cheap rip off of...Erm, I'm gonna say Beige Rhino) all over my windscreen. That's gonna go sticky me thinks!!

I don't want you to be my next hat!! :D

Well, if you're trusting enough to send a random Mancunian your ECU to play with and honestly think you'll get it back once I've seen the difference, then fair play to ya fella!!

Oh, Smithy's 140bhp 940 will be LH2.4.

Steve :)

LOL cheers, don't know about posting....not cos of dodgy mancs but would be worried about damage etc. I'll be at York Raceway on the 25th if that is any help. I was going to go on the 26th instead/also but just agreed to Land Rover racing again so spine is in for another battering. I think I'm getting too old for it

[jamesy12345]

Started an LH2.2 thread over on the 480 forum

http://www.volvo-480-europe.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=34017&p=202189#p202189