T5 problems continue...

[Leeds_finest]

Refitted my overhauled throttle body and my car runs just as bad, if not worse.

On automatic choke it seemed fine, as soon as the revs settled on idle it just seemed to misfire and splutter.

Typically, no EML - yet there's quite clearly a problem (it's not even registering a misfire).

Getting sick of this car I cannot believe I bought another P2 Volvo, my first one was unreliable and now this is too.

[M-R-P]

Domn that thing hates you!

You and Jamse should both grab the petrol and the matches and meet up in a fiels somewhere.

Seriously though, maybe it's time to let someone like MRG have a look at it?

[Leeds_finest]

When I checked the coils and plugs it all seemed ok but maybe they need a closer look as it does just have a rhythmic splutter like its misfiring??

I'm just getting sick of it now. I could take it to a local specialist... But at what cost?

There's always a reason cheap cars are cheap - because they're absolute toss normally.... I would say this applies to my scenario.

[M-R-P]

Any plugs a different colour to the others? Fueling issue?

[Leeds_finest]

Ill check them all for spark. I didn't notice anything unusual.

As for fuelling well maybe but I've changed the filter so what else could it be? Dead injector? They all seemed ok when I checked.

[M-R-P]

Blocked injector?

Faulty fuel pump? faulty FPR? I have a spare FPR (the one on the bottom of the fuel rail)

[Leeds_finest]

I wouldn't even know how to test the pump or FPR!

Unless I had spares to swap over, is there any other way?

[M-R-P]

I think you can fit a gauge to the valve on the end of the fuel rail but I don't know what type or how to use it.

[Leeds_finest]

Ok mate, I'll see what I can come up with and if not maybe I'll have to trailer it to a garage.

[volvokid]

Martin is rite if your near mrg take it there. I hated my car when volvo up here couldn't fix it on several attempts. Mrg found the fault really fast now I love the car been fine since .

[Leeds_finest]

Where abouts are they based?

Thanks

[V70 Graham]

where abouts are they based?

Thanks

M R G
Methuen Park,
Bath road,
Chippenham,
Wiltshire,
SN14 0GX

[silverhorse]

I'm just getting sick of it now. I could take it to a local specialist... But at what cost?



Thats what I would do. Might cost a few bob, but what price peace of mind. When it is fixed and running 100%, you will forget how p155ed off you have been.
I recently did my wishbone bushes as I thought I could easily do it and save some money. MUCH MUCH aggro and grief later, I wish I had bitten the bullet and taken it to my local indie!!

[Leeds_finest]

M R G
Methuen Park,
Bath road,
Chippenham,
Wiltshire,
SN14 0GX

Sadly they're a little far from West Mids :(


Thats what I would do. Might cost a few bob, but what price peace of mind. When it is fixed and running 100%, you will forget how p155ed off you have been.
I recently did my wishbone bushes as I thought I could easily do it and save some money. MUCH MUCH aggro and grief later, I wish I had bitten the bullet and taken it to my local indie!!

It's a fair point you make, sometimes it isn't worth the anguish of doing the work yourself is it?

[JamesT5]

Refitted my overhauled throttle body and my car runs just as bad, if not worse.

On automatic choke it seemed fine, as soon as the revs settled on idle it just seemed to misfire and splutter.

Typically, no EML - yet there's quite clearly a problem (it's not even registering a misfire).

Getting sick of this car I cannot believe I bought another P2 Volvo, my first one was unreliable and now this is too.

Oh, this sounds exactly like my problem and I can fully empathise! Listen, I've got another ETM coming and my current one on the car is not causing anymore rough idle yet so it would be a good 'tool' to use for testing.

Perhaps you and I should meet up and see if I can help you troubleshoot and I'll bring my old ETM and we can see if it's the ETM or something more obvious. Just a thought!

PM me if you think I can be of any help. :B_thumb:

[volvokid]

Mrg is based in Chippenham

[Leeds_finest]

Oh, this sounds exactly like my problem and I can fully empathise! Listen, I've got another ETM coming and my current one on the car is not causing anymore rough idle yet so it would be a good 'tool' to use for testing.

Perhaps you and I should meet up and see if I can help you troubleshoot and I'll bring my old ETM and we can see if it's the ETM or something more obvious. Just a thought!

PM me if you think I can be of any help. :B_thumb:

PM'd thanks

[JamesT5]

PM'd thanks

PM reply sent. :B_thumb:

[M-R-P]

Perhaps the two of you can get together and build one good p2 out of the two you have :D

[V70 Graham]

Perhaps the two of you can get together and build one good p2 out of the two you have :D

Low blow Mr Peachey.....but you may be right lol

[claymore]

I would still take it to MRG personally.

[Harvey]

Low blow Mr Peachey.....but you may be right lol

Computer canbus high & low would say NO.:frown:

[Leeds_finest]

Perhaps the two of you can get together and build one good p2 out of the two you have :D

Or one P2 with combined faults... Knowing our luck ;)

[Leeds_finest]

Just been told by a local specialist that after re-fitting my ETM, I should have an 'ETM reload' at a dealers.

The person who did the work on the ETM claims you do not need any kind of re-coding...

...i'm stumped?


EDIT: just had a call back £72 for ETM reload.

[M-R-P]

Should just need to leave the ignition on for an hour and it'll sort itself out. Well, the early ME7 worked like that anyway. Can't see it being any different.

[JamesT5]

Just been told by a local specialist that after re-fitting my ETM, I should have an 'ETM reload' at a dealers.

The person who did the work on the ETM claims you do not need any kind of re-coding...

...i'm stumped?


EDIT: just had a call back £72 for ETM reload.

It doesn't need recoding if it's a like for like swap.

[JamesT5]

Just been told by a local specialist that after re-fitting my ETM, I should have an 'ETM reload' at a dealers.

The person who did the work on the ETM claims you do not need any kind of re-coding...

...i'm stumped?


EDIT: just had a call back £72 for ETM reload.

Oh, and if your ETM isn't the problem then that's £72 down the drain, hence I said let's troubleshoot first (it won't cost you a penny!) :B_thumb:

[M-R-P]

It doesn't need recoding if it's a like for like swap.

But your replacement ran like a 3 legged dog.... Perhaps there's something in the recoding thing after all?

[Leeds_finest]

The Volvo repair guy even said himself that it wouldn't require any recoding - and i'm sure he's done plenty - doesn't make sense does it :(

[M-R-P]

It's a P2 - what works for one, won't always work on another. Interior light for example... Some will take LED festoon bulbs with no drama at all, others will have an ambient glow, even with the ignition off! Same with sidelights. And it doesn't appear to be related to year either.

[Leeds_finest]

Oh, and if your ETM isn't the problem then that's £72 down the drain, hence I said let's troubleshoot first (it won't cost you a penny!) :B_thumb:

Yes I agree maybe I missed something during my trouble shooting.

[graemewelch]

take it to harrogate volvo specialist

[Harvey]

You say there are no codes listed.

Try the cars own display and see what it say back.

1 turn key to on (lights on the dash on)
2 press read button on l/h arm and hold on
3 press rear fog lamp switch button 3 times quite fast then the left hand dim display will say if there are codes in the car.
4 let go of the read button .
5 press the read button to go thought the list of control boxes one at a time.

Take a pen and paper as they can log a lot of faults most are not important .

[JamesT5]

take it to harrogate volvo specialist

I don't think so, not after the attitude I had from him on the phone the other day. Epic fail!

[JamesT5]

I would still take it to MRG personally.

Why pay out for garage labour when a friends and fellow drivers can lend a hand for diddley squit! Garages should be a last resort IMO.

[graemewelch]

Why pay out for garage labour when a friends and fellow drivers can lend a hand for diddley squit! Garages should be a last resort IMO.


cause hes had months of trying to fix and failed like your self james. only easy to fix if know how.

[jbconno]

cause hes had months of trying to fix and failed like your self james. only easy to fix if know how.

Hahahaha. Harsh but fair.

[960kg]

My knowledge about these does not exist as i have the pre ME7 but i found this........any good?

[JamesT5]

cause hes had months of trying to fix and failed like your self james. only easy to fix if know how.

No, I haven't failed and nor has Ed, it's work in progress. Just because you haven't had any issues with your car doesn't mean to say the rest of us who try and fix ours on a shoe string budget have failed. If your car had done ultra high miles I guarantee, post 2004 or not, it WILL have had major issues at some point.

So, perhaps the rest of us who are learning something about our cars all the time and showing persistence and backbone should be congratulated. It's not all about how much money you spend on it, it's the effort and the goal at the end that actually matters. Perhaps we want to spend time on our cars like this, did you consider that?

[V70 Graham]

No, I haven't failed and nor has Ed, it's work in progress. Just because you haven't had any issues with your car doesn't mean to say the rest of us who try and fix ours on a shoe string budget have failed. If your car had done ultra high miles I guarantee, post 2004 or not, it WILL have had major issues at some point.

So, perhaps the rest of us who are learning something about our cars all the time and showing persistence and backbone should be congratulated. It's not all about how much money you spend on it, it's the effort and the goal at the end that actually matters. Perhaps we want to spend time on our cars like this, did you consider that?

I agree with what your saying James, it's just some of us really shouldn't be allowed anywhere near tools.....

[M-R-P]

No, I haven't failed and nor has Ed, it's work in progress. Just because you haven't had any issues with your car doesn't mean to say the rest of us who try and fix ours on a shoe string budget have failed. If your car had done ultra high miles I guarantee, post 2004 or not, it WILL have had major issues at some point.

So, perhaps the rest of us who are learning something about our cars all the time and showing persistence and backbone should be congratulated. It's not all about how much money you spend on it, it's the effort and the goal at the end that actually matters. Perhaps we want to spend time on our cars like this, did you consider that?

Easy tiger ;)

The way it looks to a lot of us is that there's something going on that can't be diagnosed by the average spanner-monkey on his driveway.
You've both had issues when replacing/repairing the ETM and amongst conflicting opinions, the fact that that the ETM might need flashing seems to be becoming more and more prominent. I honestly didn't think this would be the case but looking at what's been recently posted, and remembering that the P2 ME7 is more complicated than the P1 (P2 is actually ME7.1 iirc) The "plug 'n' play" idea could very well only apply to the P1.

Have either of you phoned somewhere like MRG or HLM etc ? you might get a simple yes or no and possibly solve both your problems. Or at least, rule out the ETM being the problem.

[Leeds_finest]

You say there are no codes listed.

Try the cars own display and see what it say back.

1 turn key to on (lights on the dash on)
2 press read button on l/h arm and hold on
3 press rear fog lamp switch button 3 times quite fast then the left hand dim display will say if there are codes in the car.
4 let go of the read button .
5 press the read button to go thought the list of control boxes one at a time.

Take a pen and paper as they can log a lot of faults most are not important .

Sadly my left hand display has failed :( thanks for the suggestion though.


Why pay out for garage labour when a friends and fellow drivers can lend a hand for diddley squit! Garages should be a last resort IMO.


No, I haven't failed and nor has Ed, it's work in progress. Just because you haven't had any issues with your car doesn't mean to say the rest of us who try and fix ours on a shoe string budget have failed. If your car had done ultra high miles I guarantee, post 2004 or not, it WILL have had major issues at some point.

So, perhaps the rest of us who are learning something about our cars all the time and showing persistence and backbone should be congratulated. It's not all about how much money you spend on it, it's the effort and the goal at the end that actually matters. Perhaps we want to spend time on our cars like this, did you consider that?

I agree.

Look guys, I don't have bags of money to fix the car so as James said a garage at £30/40/50 per hour PLUS VAT is a last resort. I have basic tools, a basic knowledge of mechanics and two healthy hands/arms... so i'd rather have a go myself and save myself some money and feel that sense of achievement IF I were to manage to fix it myself.

I paid £1,400 for my car and I bought it as a cheap (meant to be reliable) run around until I could afford something nicer/better. I'm trying to avoid spending a lot of money as I spent thousands on my S60R and lost every penny when the value dropped out of them. Yes, I understand, that's cars for you, but I am trying to keep my cheap car running without the expense. If I had a lot of money in the first place, I wouldn't have bought a sub £2,000 Volvo would I?


Easy tiger ;)

The way it looks to a lot of us is that there's something going on that can't be diagnosed by the average spanner-monkey on his driveway.
You've both had issues when replacing/repairing the ETM and amongst conflicting opinions, the fact that that the ETM might need flashing seems to be becoming more and more prominent. I honestly didn't think this would be the case but looking at what's been recently posted, and remembering that the P2 ME7 is more complicated than the P1 (P2 is actually ME7.1 iirc) The "plug 'n' play" idea could very well only apply to the P1.

Have either of you phoned somewhere like MRG or HLM etc ? you might get a simple yes or no and possibly solve both your problems. Or at least, rule out the ETM being the problem.

I spoke to my local specialist who said, yes, you need to go to the dealer and have an ETM reload. Whilst I haven't got a problem with this, I would rather rule out every other possibility first.



...but back onto the tech issue at hand - the symptoms are as such:

Fire up from freezing cold and comes onto auto choke fine, singing on five cylinders.

Drops down to idle and seems to still be on all five.

If left for 5-10 minutes idling it will start to misfire (or so it seems with lumpy idle and exhaust almost making a slight pop noise). At least it has stopped cutting out, or so it seems, maybe the ETM fix did help?

When revved, sometimes the revs will fly right upto 4/5/6k as you want them to. Other times it will limit at around 2.5/3k as though something is wrong with the throttle?

Also, sometimes even holding your foot constant on full or part throttle, the revs will fluctuate even though you asre holding the pedal constant.


Ok, so it all sounds throttle related, but where does that random misfire come in? Idles fine on cold startup then seems to misfire and IF it is a misfire why does it not register and throw a light up like it did when my coilpack was dead?




Thanks

Ed

[M-R-P]

What about the throttle pedal sensor? they can have similar effects to the etm but rarely fail.

The thing with the throttle body, the way I've read it, is that it's not the butterfly misbehaving but the sensor that tells the ecu where the butterfly is. if the readings from the sensor go crazy or blank, the ecu will attempt to adjust the butterfly position, fueling and timing to suit. The ecu responds much faster than the throttle ever could, so it could potentially lead to the injectors massively overfueling (fuel delivery and pressure are also controlled "on demand")

Potentially, a problem that the pedal could cause too but very rare.

There's also the possibility of the wiring to the coil packs degrading and arking, once the engine is hot.

[V70 Graham]

What about the throttle pedal sensor? they can have similar effects to the etm but rarely fail.

The thing with the throttle body, the way I've read it, is that it's not the butterfly misbehaving but the sensor that tells the ecu where the butterfly is. if the readings from the sensor go crazy or blank, the ecu will attempt to adjust the butterfly position, fueling and timing to suit. The ecu responds much faster than the throttle ever could, so it could potentially lead to the injectors massively overfueling (fuel delivery and pressure are also controlled "on demand")

Potentially, a problem that the pedal could cause too but very rare.

There's also the possibility of the wiring to the coil packs degrading and arking, once the engine is hot.

Pedal sensor, coil packs.....are you sure it's not worth a £40 diagnostic to find out once and for all ?

[M-R-P]

Exactly my point.

[graemewelch]

when i had running issues with mine i took it to a local garage to be diagnosed. came up wth loads of fault codes. i bought a fuel pressure sensor as advised and it made no difference, £70 down the drain. plus £40 dianostic. so £110 wasted. next step was a trip to hlm who identified the fault in under a minute. instaled a standard map on to ecu, job done. turned out my ppc unit had gone hay wire and only instaled half of the new file. my point is youve just spent money on a refurbed etm, new plugs fuel filter etc, while these parts havnt cost a fortune it would of payed for a dianostic on dice and youd prob know your problem. and have some change. instead youve had these issues for months and for sake of penny pinching a few quid you could of had 6 months enjoyable motoring. please dont take my comments personaly as james has. modern cars are complicated things these days. best of luck which ever way you go though.

[Leeds_finest]

What about the throttle pedal sensor? they can have similar effects to the etm but rarely fail.

The thing with the throttle body, the way I've read it, is that it's not the butterfly misbehaving but the sensor that tells the ecu where the butterfly is. if the readings from the sensor go crazy or blank, the ecu will attempt to adjust the butterfly position, fueling and timing to suit. The ecu responds much faster than the throttle ever could, so it could potentially lead to the injectors massively overfueling (fuel delivery and pressure are also controlled "on demand")

Potentially, a problem that the pedal could cause too but very rare.

There's also the possibility of the wiring to the coil packs degrading and arking, once the engine is hot.

Agreed it is the TPS so the butterfly will open and the TPS will give false readings to the ECU - that should now be fixed and the ETM has been tested before it was returned to me.

As for pedal sensor, quite possibly, again wouldn't it throw an EML?


Pedal sensor, coil packs.....are you sure it's not worth a £40 diagnostic to find out once and for all ?


Exactly my point.

My main gripe with paying a dealer to diagnose a fault is that VIDA will surely read a code as any OBD2 reader will, which, once googled, should return some description or explanation of what's wrong.

If it really does have more detail and depth than a generic reader then yes I would agree it is worth a go.

[Leeds_finest]

when i had running issues with mine i took it to a local garage to be diagnosed. came up wth loads of fault codes. i bought a fuel pressure sensor as advised and it made no difference, £70 down the drain. plus £40 dianostic. so £110 wasted. next step was a trip to hlm who identified the fault in under a minute. instaled a standard map on to ecu, job done. turned out my ppc unit had gone hay wire and only instaled half of the new file. my point is youve just spent money on a refurbed etm, new plugs fuel filter etc, while these parts havnt cost a fortune it would of payed for a dianostic on dice and youd prob know your problem. and have some change. instead youve had these issues for months and for sake of penny pinching a few quid you could of had 6 months enjoyable motoring. please dont take my comments personaly as james has. modern cars are complicated things these days. best of luck which ever way you go though.

Well I had only paid £10 for a fuel filter and my justification for the ETM was because they are prone to failure so I was trying to get one step ahead but I do take your point and it wouldn't hurt to have it diagnosed...

...you just hear the 'horror' stories of "I spent hundreds on parts because that's what diagnostic said was wrong - but it didn't fix my fault"

^^ just didn't want that to happen that's all.

[graemewelch]

Well I had only paid £10 for a fuel filter and my justification for the ETM was because they are prone to failure so I was trying to get one step ahead but I do take your point and it wouldn't hurt to have it diagnosed...

...you just hear the 'horror' stories of "I spent hundreds on parts because that's what diagnostic said was wrong - but it didn't fix my fault"

^^ just didn't want that to happen that's all.

if you do go down the dianostic route then id strongly advice you get it done from a place that uses volvo software. this dosnt mean a dealer. they are small specialist dotted about everywear. i got mine done using generic software and the advise and knolodge of volvos was terrible. many volvo specialist have told me only use volvo software and it wasnt to make a extra few quid as he never charged me for to read codes as it didnt fix my issue but he did give me some advise and he was right

[Harvey]

My main gripe with paying a dealer to diagnose a fault is that VIDA will surely read a code as any OBD2 reader will, which, once googled, should return some description or explanation of what's wrong.

If it really does have more detail and depth than a generic reader then yes I would agree it is worth a go.

When you see Vida/dice at work at a dealer it gives a hole lot more info than a £25 code reader.

It can give you a live scan of all the engine sensors.you could have a engine temp sensor fault that's why it's runs ok when it's cold but when it's warm .
the ecu will try to adjust the running settings to lower the emissions so it also could be a sensor in the down pipe,cat.

You do say that the dim is starting to fail this can also cause running faults.

It's could be anything that's why you need it looked at with a proper code reader.

[M-R-P]

As above, a code reader will only pick up the OBD codes that it would find on most cars (hence the term Generic) There's so much more going on in a P2 that it'll never find.

Although - with the DIM failure, the only "running" issue I had was the cruise control would stop working, throw a "clutch position sensor" fault and only work when I cleared the code. This is normally attributed to the clutch master leaking and ruining the pedal sensor but the fault hasn't reappeared since I changed the DIM. I had no engine trouble caused by the DIM failing and it failed about as spectacularly as it could lol.

[mr shifter]

Personally i would bite the bullet and have a live scan done. You can be faffing around with it for months, changing bits here and there, which could be unecessary and could possibly cost you more than having the scan and repairs done in the 1st place.

[Leeds_finest]

Ok guys,

I take your point onboard.

James is going to help me this weekend have a look over the car and we are going to just rule a few things out - plugs/coils etc which can't possibly hurt can it?

Following this, if I am non the wiser I will try and get it to somewhere with Volvo software.

Are HLM good? I am about 20-30 miles from there. I am closer to GRN I suppose. In all honesty I am unsure it will make it to the bottom of my road in current running condition. May need towing there OR someone mobile with VIDA. Any suggestions?

Thanks

[graemewelch]

ill say two thing. knolodge in wrong hands in dangerous. hlm will get to the bottom of it.

[Leeds_finest]

"knowledge in wrong hands in dangerous."

Considering I recently melted a piston (not in my Volvo) I would totally agree with you, can't be too careful.

[JamesT5]

ill say two thing. knolodge in wrong hands in dangerous. hlm will get to the bottom of it.

HLM will get to the bottom of it at some cost. I'm offering my help at no cost and Ed and I won't do anything we're not 150% sure on I'll say that now. Not everybody wants to throw cash down the drain paying a garage when the problem could be fixed on the driveway by two owner-drivers with some common sense.

[jardon]

http://www.cardiag.co.uk/volvo-vida-dice-diagnostic-tool-56.html

That and Tim Williams are my recommendations. My DiCE has paid for itself many times over and I haven't §§§§ed anything up badly enough that Tim can't fix it. DiCE will log codes in all modules and live log all sensors. I would never be without it and you are §§§§ing in the wind without proper diagnostic kit on OBD2 vehicles. Good luck with it whatever you choose to do - I won't offer advice on this specific issue as without some datalogging/codes any suggestion is speculation at best.

[JamesT5]

So if Ed and I actually find the fault on Saturday then I can see this thread going very quiet and a few people here walking about the forum with egg on their face. We'll see what we find on Saturday! ;)

[Harvey]

So if Ed and I actually find the fault on Saturday then I can see this thread going very quiet and a few people here walking about the forum with egg on their face. We'll see what we find on Saturday! ;)

All I will say if you get It running is GREAT & WELL DONE

[JamesT5]

All I will say if you get It running is GREAT & WELL DONE

Yes Harvey, from you I don't doubt that for a minute but it just seems some people here think that paying out for a VIDA session is the only option and it's the magic solution. Personally I think it should be used as a last resort after all the other options have been exhausted. I also feel like some comments to this thread are people wishing failure on others who are offering practical help to fellow members, I'm not saying that's peoples intentions but this is how it comes across.

Anyway, I look forward to Saturday!

[graemewelch]

i bet this thread is still going on in a months time. id rather parts with £50 and enjoy my weekend.

[graemewelch]

so give us the heads up. what yous going to test, the coils? cant see what else you can do woth out swaping parts. but i wouldnt recoment this as neither are running right.

[Jamest5r]

Ok guys,

I take your point onboard.

James is going to help me this weekend have a look over the car and we are going to just rule a few things out - plugs/coils etc which can't possibly hurt can it?

Following this, if I am non the wiser I will try and get it to somewhere with Volvo software.

Are HLM good? I am about 20-30 miles from there. I am closer to GRN I suppose. In all honesty I am unsure it will make it to the bottom of my road in current running condition. May need towing there OR someone mobile with VIDA. Any suggestions?

Thanks

Chad (GRN) only lives around the corner from me mate so only about 5 miles? if you ask him nicely im sure he would at least read your codes for you :)

[V70 Graham]

I can see both sides, Graeme is simply stating (correctly imho) that a trip to a Volvo specialist, and a few quid spent on diagnostics would pinpoint the problem(s) and James is adamant that he wants to try as much as he can himself and rule out things as he goes along without spending too much money.

At the end of the day it's James who has to decide, though there is nothing wrong with us all giving our opinions.

[jardon]

Have either of you sought the help of T5D5 and VOC on this issue - I'd recommend canvassing a wider audience as this is a small community and lots of the members on the other forums don't read/post on this one.

[M-R-P]

So if Ed and I actually find the fault on Saturday then I can see this thread going very quiet and a few people here walking about the forum with egg on their face. We'll see what we find on Saturday! ;)
You're wrong mate. If you guys sort the problems with at least on of the cars we'll all be behind you.

Yes Harvey, from you I don't doubt that for a minute but it just seems some people here think that paying out for a VIDA session is the only option and it's the magic solution. Personally I think it should be used as a last resort after all the other options have been exhausted. I also feel like some comments to this thread are people wishing failure on others who are offering practical help to fellow members, I'm not saying that's peoples intentions but this is how it comes across.
Anyway, I look forward to Saturday!

You're looking at our opinions the wrong way mate. As a collective of people, we have a fair bit of knowledge on the subject.
Here's what we know...
You both have very similar issues with your engines. Both your engines are the same age and high mileage. You both have a Marelli ETM. You both did something relating to the ETM that could possibly need a software update. You both have exhausted pretty much all obvious courses of action. I personally believe there's nothing left but to bite the bullet and get it checked as there's nothing you can do with a spanner that'll change things, unless, by some freak of fate, you both have a cracked boost pipe (or similar) and haven't noticed it.

Nobody wants you to fail guys, the "tortch the thing" comments are meant as a bit of banter, as always. you've gotta laugh or you'll cry - trust me ;). We all want to see another volvo (or two) kept on the roads.

[silverhorse]

Good luck James and Ed! Hope you get to the bottom of the problem on Saturday. Keep us posted..........

[mr shifter]

Yep, good luck guys. If you happen to find the fault then thats all good. Plus its additional knowledge and info which could help others in the future.

[jdavis]

Good luck guys. I reckon you've got an air leak somewhere personally.

[V70 Graham]

Fingers crossed for tomorrow guys.

[Harvey]

Any news yet ?

[Leeds_finest]

http://www.cardiag.co.uk/volvo-vida-dice-diagnostic-tool-56.html

That and Tim Williams are my recommendations. My DiCE has paid for itself many times over and I haven't §§§§ed anything up badly enough that Tim can't fix it. DiCE will log codes in all modules and live log all sensors. I would never be without it and you are §§§§ing in the wind without proper diagnostic kit on OBD2 vehicles. Good luck with it whatever you choose to do - I won't offer advice on this specific issue as without some datalogging/codes any suggestion is speculation at best.

I did have the exact same thing - but flogged it when I got rid of my S60 :(

I think for the fact that I can probablynot interpret data as well as a professional, it may be a trip to the specialists.


Chad (GRN) only lives around the corner from me mate so only about 5 miles? if you ask him nicely im sure he would at least read your codes for you :)

Yes i'll have to pop down there - may need trailering though - they're by Euro and GSF aren't they.


I can see both sides, Graeme is simply stating (correctly imho) that a trip to a Volvo specialist, and a few quid spent on diagnostics would pinpoint the problem(s) and James is adamant that he wants to try as much as he can himself and rule out things as he goes along without spending too much money.

At the end of the day it's James who has to decide, though there is nothing wrong with us all giving our opinions.

Totally agree, Graeme is saying don't waste time when a proper diagnostic will tell you straight away. James is saying at least try practical things first as we have all had the moment when a fuse has gone, or a plugs come undone, or a clip has come off etc - both are valid points.


Have either of you sought the help of T5D5 and VOC on this issue - I'd recommend canvassing a wider audience as this is a small community and lots of the members on the other forums don't read/post on this one.

Admittedly no, I will have to sign up on there and post up, see if they can help more.


You're wrong mate. If you guys sort the problems with at least on of the cars we'll all be behind you.


You're looking at our opinions the wrong way mate. As a collective of people, we have a fair bit of knowledge on the subject.
Here's what we know...
You both have very similar issues with your engines. Both your engines are the same age and high mileage. You both have a Marelli ETM. You both did something relating to the ETM that could possibly need a software update. You both have exhausted pretty much all obvious courses of action. I personally believe there's nothing left but to bite the bullet and get it checked as there's nothing you can do with a spanner that'll change things, unless, by some freak of fate, you both have a cracked boost pipe (or similar) and haven't noticed it.

Nobody wants you to fail guys, the "tortch the thing" comments are meant as a bit of banter, as always. you've gotta laugh or you'll cry - trust me ;). We all want to see another volvo (or two) kept on the roads.

Agreed other than my problems started at 98k and currently on 100k - I don't consider that high mileage compared to some but I see your point everything has been ruled out now but it was worth it just in case it was something simple :)


Good luck James and Ed! Hope you get to the bottom of the problem on Saturday. Keep us posted..........


Yep, good luck guys. If you happen to find the fault then thats all good. Plus its additional knowledge and info which could help others in the future.


Good luck guys. I reckon you've got an air leak somewhere personally.


Fingers crossed for tomorrow guys.

Thanks all.


UPDATE:

The overall outcome of yesterday afternoon is that the car is not fixed.

However, we did manage to rule out a fair few bits which, in my eyes, made the time spent on the car worthwhile...


1. Tested all coil packs with spare units.

2. Swapped ETM's. This is the interesting part as my car started and ran with James ETM and therefore would suggest that these units do not need any kind of re-flash or reload. Albeit the running problem remained, so we can probably rule the ETM out as being the issue, as my car behaved this way prior to my ETM overhaul, after my ETM overhaul and with James ETM too... but it started and drove which possibly puts that point to rest.

3. Swapped MAF's. Wow, those anti tamper screws, I really love those things :wallbash: anyway, swapped them over and no change.

4. Swapped one of the air sensors from the intercooler to throttle body pipe - admittedly it would've been a better idea to swap James whole pipe onto my car but this is in hindsight. One thing we noticed was, the sensor pulled out of my boost pipe very easily, almost too easily, but James removed his with great trouble (as you would imagine for a sensor that's meant to be air tight). Anyway, fitted this and gave it a good bit of movement while the engine was running but it didn't really make any difference at all.

5. Got part of the way to swapping the valve/solenoid/sensor that is attached to the side of the airbox. Sadly, beaten by the smell of steak and chips on the dinner table (red wine sauce, mushrooms, garlic bread). So we didn't manage to get this swapped over although was interesting to have a mess with those vac pipes and it seems they are a bit worn but no splits or cracks - I don't think anyway?!


Across the whole of our test the car threw no fault codes. Great. To add insult to inury, after the day was over I reversed my car off the driveway to let James off and as I took the car down the road opposite my house, gave it 'WOT' and the car took off like a rocket. There was me thinking 'wow maybe something has fixed itself'... spun the car round and drove back and it began to splutter again, pulled onto the driveway and it cut out. So we know it's intermittent which probably doesn't help matters. When we test drove the car throughout the day, James said it felt like some kind of boost problem as at times it seems to pull then it stutters... pulls... stutters and feels very on/off when driven. Air leak? Who knows!

Massive thanks to JamesT5 who cam two hours from Wales to West Mids to help me out. He's a good person to know.

I think I've reached the end of the line for what I can do and the time I can spend on the car. With running my own business and currently house hunting, I haven't got the time or energy to be bent over with my head stuck inside the engine bay. So it's off to a Volvo specialist maybe this week or next...

...all I know is it needs sorting out quickly, my work van doesn't have heated seats!


Thanks Ed :B_thumb:

[jardon]

Good effort chaps.

[M-R-P]

Saw a friend of a friend yesterday. He has a MY 2000 V70 2.4 N/A. His etm played up and he sourced a brand new remanufactured marelli unit, fitted it and it cured the erratic idle, mostly, but it ran like a bag of $h1te. He had a software update from the local stealer and hey-presto car runs perfect.

That's confirmation if you needed it.

[graemewelch]

just a thought but have you tried doing a continuity test on the coil pack wiring. its could be a break in a wire and its moving about. well done for trying and admiting defeat not allways easy to do. fault finding isnt as easy as people think. look forward to hearing its fixed soon and was sumit realy silly

[Leeds_finest]

Saw a friend of a friend yesterday. He has a MY 2000 V70 2.4 N/A. His etm played up and he sourced a brand new remanufactured marelli unit, fitted it and it cured the erratic idle, mostly, but it ran like a bag of $h1te. He had a software update from the local stealer and hey-presto car runs perfect.

That's confirmation if you needed it.

Hmmmm that could possibly be what I need then! The throttle body overhaul did seem to stop the cutting out on idle - but still runs like turd as you say.

Interesting to know what his actual symptoms were prior to him replacing the TB.

[Leeds_finest]

just a thought but have you tried doing a continuity test on the coil pack wiring. its could be a break in a wire and its moving about. well done for trying and admiting defeat not allways easy to do. fault finding isnt as easy as people think. look forward to hearing its fixed soon and was sumit realy silly

So would that be pulling the plug connectors off each one and sticking a multimeter across the pins? Are there three pins per plug or two I can't remember? Well worth a try though and we didn't check that yesterday.

Agreed - it's not easy and there was some car cursing when we were refitting ETM's but was worth ruling a few things out and yes hopefully nothing too hard to fix (will take to GRN or HLM soon).

[M-R-P]

Hmmmm that could possibly be what I need then! The throttle body overhaul did seem to stop the cutting out on idle - but still runs like turd as you say.

Interesting to know what his actual symptoms were prior to him replacing the TB.

Rough idle, stalling, wouldn't rev properly, major flat spots at 2k rpm, wouldn't go past 3k rpm and no eml.

It's the first time I've seen him in ages or I'd have added to this thread sooner as it seems to confirm the P2 etm theory.

[graemewelch]

well there yous have it fellas. looks like mrp has hit nail on the head

[Leeds_finest]

Ok and was it an ETM reload or a complete software update... Or are they part of the same thing?

Cheers

[Harvey]

Ok and was it an ETM reload or a complete software update... Or are they part of the same thing?

Cheers

It's not a software update or a reload, it's more a reset of the engine ECU . Or a adaption procedure

But before this can be done all fault codes must be removed from the engine then the reset can be done which is easier said than done.

The engine ECU has learnt how to get the emissions correct when there's a worn component it just adjust it self to bring it back into line,so it just needs to be told there is a new component then it just goes back to day one and relearns what it needs to do.

[Leeds_finest]

Is this not the same as clearing codes with a code reader and/or leaving the battery disconnected?


Many thanks

[Harvey]

Is this not the same as clearing codes with a code reader and/or leaving the battery disconnected?


Many thanks

No it's not the same as a reset with a code reader,also if you get a brand new unit it will need programmed to the car.

Link for a aftermarket machine. So it's not just a main dealer thing.

https://www.launchtech.co.uk/common-procedure-pdf/Volvo%20-%20ECM%20Adaptation%20of%20the%20throttle%20unit.p df

[Leeds_finest]

Useful info - looks like a trip to the dealers may be in order.

I did call my local dealer last week and they specifically quoted me for an ETM reload so I'm guessing they're not making it up.

[mike 850]

I must admit when I was looking at etm issues I always read they need to have a reload, I didn't have mine done but I read and spoke to my local dealer and they said it would be able to limp in but it definitely wouldn't run right and would need to be adapted to the car, same as a lot of newer electronics, (diesel injectors etc) they need to be matched to the car

[Leeds_finest]

I must admit when I was looking at etm issues I always read they need to have a reload, I didn't have mine done but I read and spoke to my local dealer and they said it would be able to limp in but it definitely wouldn't run right and would need to be adapted to the car, same as a lot of newer electronics, (diesel injectors etc) they need to be matched to the car

Fair point.

The only reason I thought it wasn't necessary was because the chap who fitted the new TPS to my existing throttle body said that, due to the fact the internals/electronics of the throttle body are not touched, it will not require any kind of update or coding...

...whether or not this is a load of cobblers, only a visit to the dealers will tell I suppose. Still, £72.00 for an ETM reload, they really know when they have you by the nuts don't they?

[JamesT5]

Right, my turn now. I got after 11pm and was up for work at 4.30am today so this is the first chance I've had to give my verdict.

To me it seemed like a Boost problem, most likely the BCS or similar because the car would boost and then cut out and then boost and cut out. Having pretty much ruled out the ETM as far as I'm concerned, the coil packs, the MAF and the a sensor on the intercooler pipe, it seems there's little left but a Boost issue somewhere which also is creating an erratic idle. It could also be a Lambda or O2 sensor hence our attempts to change the grey sensor over that clips on to the Air Filter housing.

Personally I think we made very good progress yesterday and it was a good effort that has narrowed down the problem by a massive factor, plus it was great to take the hands-on approach to assisting another VPC member with their car and Ed, it was a pleasure to meet you as well! I don't think yesterday was a wasted effort in any way shape or form and I think we should be very proud of our achievements. This sort of thing is what the forum is about, helping others!

Unfortunately, we ran out of time and it was a pity we didn't get more time to go through the car in more detail but having been on a night shift the night before I wasn't able to get there until around 3.30pm. Still we made good use of the time finishing up around 9pm. To be perfectly honest, it felt more like one of Stribo's 'Mini Fix' meets.... :B_thumb:

Anyway, the cuts and scratches to our hands are no doubt slowly healing and would I be tempted to help out again like this? Of course I would because it's exactly the thing we should all aspire to do if we can and it's practical. It can save us from expensive garage bills and we learn more about our cars all the time. Only when we have exhausted every possibility in the time available like we have done, should we spend money in a garage for something like this. At least that way we know what it isn't and can avoid getting fleeced!

Ed - a good effort all round! By the way, I was convinced it was curry that your family were having but I was obviously 'mis-steak-en'. :P

In the end I stopped at a Tesco Express in Kidderminster for some food rather than McDonalds as planned as I realised I needed to buy some stuff to take to work today, it seemed the logical choice. :beer:

[mike 850]

I completely agree and I am always helping friends with cars etc, I hate paying a garage and would only do so if I had no choice! it is what its all about and good on you, hope you get to the bottom of it!

[jamesy12345]

Good read guys, I agree do what you can yourself...you get a sense of achievement when the car is sorted but can be a real pain in the bum if you can't track a fault down. That's where I would eventually head to a specialist also (dealer would be last option for me).

I don't think it's only dealers who can load the software btw - I once had a conversation with Russ at RT Mechanics about ETMs and I'm sure he said it was possible for RT to adapt new stuff on the car. I've never used them so can't say 'go there', just saying that maybe there is a middle ground here by heading to an independant near you with the right gear.

[V70 Graham]

GRN (specialist who didn't really seem to have a clue

To be honest there are only 4 people I let work on my car, 2 specialist Volvo independents with 30+ years experience each, M-R-P and GRN Motors, Benny has a great deal of knowledge and has never let me down yet.

[jez.w]

I have a similar problem on my C70 2.4T (1999 ME7). Im positive it is my repaired ETM, as was ok before repair. The repair fixed my idling/stalling problems and turned the engine light off, but now i have intermitant rough running and hestitation for a few seconds every now and again, maybe twice for a few seconds during a 1 hour drive, but sometimes it wont do it for 500 miles. It started doing this immediately (same day) after i refitted the repaired ETM. I have 5 new quality coil packs, plugs, new Volvo BCS, recent Bosch Maf etc. Annoyingly when i took it to HLM it didnt do it and was ok for a few days after the remap too, no fault codes were showing and hoses and vac pipes were good and it mapped perfectly, so it is very intermitant and is not getting any worse at the moment. If it gets worse i will bite the bullet and buy a new ETM from Volvo and have it programmed to the car, and bin the repaired ETM. I will loose my remap though as when car is plugged in at Volvo it overwrites and updates all software automatically apparently, which is why i will wait until my problem gets worse as very occasional at the moment, and not worth losing my remap for an occasional hesitation and momnetary lack of boost.

A chap at the local Volvo garage where i get my service parts from immediately told me my problem was very likely the ETM or possibly a boost leak from my description as he had exactly the same thing on his V70 and a new ETM fixed his. Also he said that you need to program a new ETM to the car as it wont work properly and will run in limp mode. Secondhand ETM's work ok as if the part number matches your old ETM and was off the same model of car, the programming may be an older or newer software version to what you had before but should work, but chances are the secondhand ETM will probably be off a different car and so might not have exactly the correct software and so run rough also.


I think both your cars could also be ETM related. One of you needs to try a new ETM and reprogramming at a Volvo dealer. Pre 2004 Morelli Magnetti EMTs have 96 percent failure rate within 100K apparently, so it is going to fail at some point..........

[Harvey]

Yes but .............. You still need your codes downloaded with a reader.

[Leeds_finest]

I'm not disputing that.

Had the car produced EML and/or codes I would've been taking it to be read with Volvo software following this weekend (drawing a blank)

However, it has no EML or codes. Having said this, it should flag up any faults when they plug it in for ETM reset.

[jez.w]

I have the contactless repair from Volvo Diagnostic £130. It has 100 percent fixed the idle and stalling and turned the engine light off. But ever since i fitted the repaired ETM i have had this occasional rough running, lack of power, and hesitation which last a few seconds and then goes which was definitely not there before. If i drove gently all the time i wouldnt even notice, as once the car has warmed up it only really plays up when you accelerate quickly, although it is also hard to pull away smoothly sometimes when the engine is cold and revs are low. All I'm saying is the contactless repair itself is probably fine but my ETM is now causing a hestitatation and lumpyness now and again, so there is something else wrong with my ETM or the current software is having a problem with the repaired ETM? I'm 99 percent sure a new ETM and new software will fix mine, although as i said i will not do this until it gets worse as i can live with it at the moment, there are no error codes, and its not that bad. It might never get worse and i can live with it as-is. As i said in the early post, my car can run everyday for a week spot on, then it might run lumpy for a few seconds a couple of time the following week, so it is occasional.

Prehaps we have the same fault? I will watch this thread with interest to see what the outcome is.

[Harvey]

I'm not disputing that.

Had the car produced EML and/or codes I would've been taking it to be read with Volvo software following this weekend (drawing a blank)

However, it has no EML or codes. Having said this, it should flag up any faults when they plug it in for ETM reset.

Yes you are spot on ,if the car has a small error it will log it but it won't always put the cel on.

That's why is told you how to test for them but your dim is not working.

[Leeds_finest]

Yes you are spot on ,if the car has a small error it will log it but it won't always put the cel on.

That's why is told you how to test for them but your dim is not working.

I agree it does need a live check with VIDA and hopefully they will carry this out at the same time as resetting my throttle module... or do you reckon a further diagnostic check is extra?

Either way they said they need the car for an hour for any diagnostic so hopefully it's a thorough check.

[Leeds_finest]

I have the contactless repair from Volvo Diagnostic £130. It has 100 percent fixed the idle and stalling and turned the engine light off. But ever since i fitted the repaired ETM i have had this occasional rough running, lack of power, and hesitation which last a few seconds and then goes which was definitely not there before. If i drove gently all the time i wouldnt even notice, as once the car has warmed up it only really plays up when you accelerate quickly, although it is also hard to pull away smoothly sometimes when the engine is cold and revs are low. All I'm saying is the contactless repair itself is probably fine but my ETM is now causing a hestitatation and lumpyness now and again, so there is something else wrong with my ETM or the current software is having a problem with the repaired ETM? I'm 99 percent sure a new ETM and new software will fix mine, although as i said i will not do this until it gets worse as i can live with it at the moment, there are no error codes, and its not that bad. It might never get worse and i can live with it as-is. As i said in the early post, my car can run everyday for a week spot on, then it might run lumpy for a few seconds a couple of time the following week, so it is occasional.

Prehaps we have the same fault? I will watch this thread with interest to see what the outcome is.

Well I'm glad you've said that as that's the same person I used to repair mine although the running is almost as bad as before.

Mine idles poorly and drives without any poke, it's very flat most of the time.

The Volvo Diagnostic chap claims you don't need to reset anything, but I'm unsure now...

...do you think this could be my fault?


Yes you are spot on ,if the car has a small error it will log it but it won't always put the cel on.

That's why is told you how to test for them but your dim is not working.

Yes sadly my DIM is out otherwise could've checked the codes :( bloody car!

[Harvey]

I agree it does need a live check with VIDA and hopefully they will carry this out at the same time as resetting my throttle module... or do you reckon a further diagnostic check is extra?

Either way they said they need the car for an hour for any diagnostic so hopefully it's a thorough check.

No to read all the codes ,as they all will come up when you plug the machine in
Also ask for the printout of the codes handy to keep.
,the but is if they won't clear as there is a proper fault on a Component that is what could cause a problem,
to clear and reset the faults from the car you need to run the engine for 30 secs or so so it can do a self test to see if the fault returns if it does return with a fault ,it won't reset the codes.
It's a bit chicken and egg situation what comes first.

[silverhorse]

All I can say on this subject is..... I am mighty relieved that I don't have the MM module!!

[Leeds_finest]

Whatever it is, it's something ridiculously intermittent.

Just fired it up from cold, smooth at first, then idled a little rough.

Took it round the block and did its usual lumpy running lacking power.

Got it home, let it idle (rough) then gave the engine a little rev then let it idle again and the idle became smooth?

[jez.w]

Well I'm glad you've said that as that's the same person I used to repair mine although the running is almost as bad as before.

Mine idles poorly and drives without any poke, it's very flat most of the time.

The Volvo Diagnostic chap claims you don't need to reset anything, but I'm unsure now...


...do you think this could be my fault?



Yes sadly my DIM is out otherwise could've checked the codes :( bloody car!
Sounds like the same problems and symptoms as mine, but mine is ok most of the time.

I wonder if it is same problem too... as i said the ETM repair did fix my erratic idle and stalling problems and did turn off the EML, so no problems there, the repair did fix what they said it would. But maybe my ETM still has another fault, or has a software issue as I have had this intermitant rough running issue ever since the repair. Could be my ETM software doesnt work 100 percent perfectly with the contactless repair? Or something else is wrong with my ETM? I'm almost willing to pay £300 for a new ETM and reprogramming from Volvo just to find out, but i will loose my remap in the process........

Do you get any other symtoms apart from lumpy running?

[Leeds_finest]

So does £300 include a new TB and programming?

Well mine started off just being a slight pain when engine was freezing cold. It would idle fine and drive ok but until engine came upto temperature it was a little hesitant.

It gradually got worse and got to the point where idle was ok but driving at any speed, any engine temperature it was hesitant on/off driving and my girlfriend lost all hope and refused to drive the thing on the basis it was dangerous pulling out of junctions.

Then got so bad that it would switch on and idle but if left to idle for 5-10 minutes the engine would cut out.

Since ETM fix, the engine doesn't appear to cut out anymore, so I believe it has helped... But still plays up at present.

[LeeT5]

Refitted my overhauled throttle body and my car runs just as bad, if not worse.

On automatic choke it seemed fine, as soon as the revs settled on idle it just seemed to misfire and splutter.

Typically, no EML - yet there's quite clearly a problem (it's not even registering a misfire).

Getting sick of this car I cannot believe I bought another P2 Volvo, my first one was unreliable and now this is too.

I can understand your frustration, but i do feel that your §§§§ed off with your car and claiming its unreliable ONLY because you've spent sooo much time, energy and effort in trying to fix a fault that, lets be honest, was totally over your head and you had no chance right from the outset, without the proper diagnostic equipment. If you had only done what most of us were saying to you, which was to just drive to a dealer or HLM and with the correct diagnostics, they could of saved you the headache and maybe your opinion would be different and you'd not be so fed up.

Generic code readers are great as a quick (plug in and see why my EML is on) but, if you have no EML on then it just means that the upper or lower limits of the ECU's software ave not been reached and therefore, will not display an EML.
This, however, does not mean you won't have any codes. You will only be able to read those codes using VIDA/DICE or a code reader that has specific VOLVO software to read them, ie BSR diagnostic reader.

When you spend you £75 at the Dealer, that will include 30 minutes labour + the cost of the software (normally about £30).
If you have a new ETM fitted by the dealer then the £300 includes software + fitting as they are very easy to get to.

P1 Cars are not the same as P2's. Very close, but as MRP said...P2's are ME7.1

Jez.w ....Yes, you do get other symptoms of a faulty ETM. Namely the car will cut out and restart and in a worse case (as i had) it will cut out and completely not restart! My P1 did it to me as i came off the M20 at Junc 5 in lane 2.

Me personally, i think you have a faulty O2 sensor. However, i'm not going to speculate as with reading the cars ECU's for codes...You really are pis s ing in the wind!

DICE/VIDA will automatically read EVERY single ecu on the vehicle when its plugged in. I bet you have lots of faults, not just one.

[LeeT5]

Good luck guys. I reckon you've got an air leak somewhere personally.

Nah...its §§§§ in the carburetor! :hidesbehi

[LeeT5]

Moving forwards....

I think a very valuable lesson will be learned here, when the Dealer actually get to the bottom of the fault and fix it.

Don't get me wrong, i'm all for mates helping each other out and lending a hand etc, but if neither of you are trained vehicle Technicians with the correct diagnostics equipment then you really should be leaving well alone. Stick to replacing ball joints and wishbones, things that are physically obvious and can be replaced at fairly low cost.
Doing my job i've come across so many wannabe home mechanics that think they can diagnose and fix their cars with little more than a socket set from Halfrauds and the internet. Most of the time they make matters worse and then expect us to come along, wave a magic wand and fix it. You should see their faces when i tell them that it can't be repaired anymore because they've broken this or short circuited that and then tell them that their car has gotta go to a dealer and could cost hundreds if not thousands!!

Anyone got a Merc here? You may or may not know about the SAM units on these cars are ultra sensitive. I know a few ppl that have tried to jump start their car which only had a flat battery, only to do irreversible damage to one of the SAM units. Dealer fix = £1500. Worse thing is, they didn't even know they had blown the SAM unit cos there was no symptoms other than (when i arrive) the headlights don't work or the car won't lock/unlock. They then tell you 'Well it worked before...' before what, before you did something you shouldn't have and caused more damage.

I'm not trying to take anything away from what you've done in the past, indeed, i admire your hard work and effort on stuff you've done previous but as someone said, sometimes you just gotta bite the bullet....and this time i know they are right.

If you wanna be able to see the whole picture when your car is not playing ball, then with Volvo P2's you gotta own a proper diagnostics tool. Whether that be DICE/VIDA or BSR diags or some other reader with Volvo specific software that can read ALL the ECU's and modules. :wink:

[LeeT5]

It's not a software update or a reload, it's more a reset of the engine ECU . Or a adaption procedure

But before this can be done all fault codes must be removed from the engine then the reset can be done which is easier said than done.

The engine ECU has learnt how to get the emissions correct when there's a worn component it just adjust it self to bring it back into line,so it just needs to be told there is a new component then it just goes back to day one and relearns what it needs to do.

It's actually an ECM reload - Engine Control Module.

Volvo will plug in VIDA/DICE which will read all the ecu's/modules and report. They will then log, erase and restart car, Possibly even road test to have faults re occur. Then once they know what the fault is, if it requires an ECM reload then they will Wipe the stored data from the ECM and then reload the latest file from Volvo Sweden. Then start the car and retest/read faults.

Any additional faults will then be reported back to yourself for you to say yes or no to have them fix.

[LeeT5]

UPDATE:

The overall outcome of yesterday afternoon is that the car is not fixed.

However, we did manage to rule out a fair few bits which, in my eyes, made the time spent on the car worthwhile...


1. Tested all coil packs with spare units.

2. Swapped ETM's. This is the interesting part as my car started and ran with James ETM and therefore would suggest that these units do not need any kind of re-flash or reload. Albeit the running problem remained, so we can probably rule the ETM out as being the issue, as my car behaved this way prior to my ETM overhaul, after my ETM overhaul and with James ETM too... but it started and drove which possibly puts that point to rest.

3. Swapped MAF's. Wow, those anti tamper screws, I really love those things :wallbash: anyway, swapped them over and no change.

4. Swapped one of the air sensors from the intercooler to throttle body pipe - admittedly it would've been a better idea to swap James whole pipe onto my car but this is in hindsight. One thing we noticed was, the sensor pulled out of my boost pipe very easily, almost too easily, but James removed his with great trouble (as you would imagine for a sensor that's meant to be air tight). Anyway, fitted this and gave it a good bit of movement while the engine was running but it didn't really make any difference at all.

5. Got part of the way to swapping the valve/solenoid/sensor that is attached to the side of the airbox. Sadly, beaten by the smell of steak and chips on the dinner table (red wine sauce, mushrooms, garlic bread). So we didn't manage to get this swapped over although was interesting to have a mess with those vac pipes and it seems they are a bit worn but no splits or cracks - I don't think anyway?!


Across the whole of our test the car threw no fault codes. Great. To add insult to inury, after the day was over I reversed my car off the driveway to let James off and as I took the car down the road opposite my house, gave it 'WOT' and the car took off like a rocket. There was me thinking 'wow maybe something has fixed itself'... spun the car round and drove back and it began to splutter again, pulled onto the driveway and it cut out. So we know it's intermittent which probably doesn't help matters. When we test drove the car throughout the day, James said it felt like some kind of boost problem as at times it seems to pull then it stutters... pulls... stutters and feels very on/off when driven. Air leak? Who knows!

Massive thanks to JamesT5 who cam two hours from Wales to West Mids to help me out. He's a good person to know.

I think I've reached the end of the line for what I can do and the time I can spend on the car. With running my own business and currently house hunting, I haven't got the time or energy to be bent over with my head stuck inside the engine bay. So it's off to a Volvo specialist maybe this week or next...

...all I know is it needs sorting out quickly, my work van doesn't have heated seats!


Thanks Ed :B_thumb:

wow!!

All you needed was a multimeter and you could have checked your own MAF, Coils, ETM, MAP (that's the one on the turbo pipe) in about 30 minutes without swapping parts from car to car.

nevermind eh :wink:

[Leeds_finest]

I can understand your frustration, but i do feel that your §§§§ed off with your car and claiming its unreliable ONLY because you've spent sooo much time, energy and effort in trying to fix a fault that, lets be honest, was totally over your head and you had no chance right from the outset, without the proper diagnostic equipment. If you had only done what most of us were saying to you, which was to just drive to a dealer or HLM and with the correct diagnostics, they could of saved you the headache and maybe your opinion would be different and you'd not be so fed up.

No, completely DISAGREE.

A problem is only over your head once you've exhausted every option yourself, with all the knowledge and tools you have whether youre a Volvo master tech or average Joe at home on his driveway. Its only over your head from the outset if you choose to pass on trying to fix it yourself.

I take everyone's point on the whole Volvo specific equipment ad yes I agree it does need to be read by VIDA however I have fixed misfires before with a generic code reader and the will to do something simple, in that instance, swapping coil packs ad fitting a new one fixed the problem. Money saved from NOT visiting a dealer? Well - the quote for a genuine Volvo coil pack alone was ridiculous let alone labour on top...

I agree, that now is the time to wave the white flag and it will be going to the dealers this week hopefully as I have reached the limits of what I can do myself. Up until this point, it was not over mine or anybody else's heads.

I take on board what you say about those Mercedes units... Some components are sensitive!

Just a thought to leave you with... My 'money bags' neighbour drives a 335 D coupe. His parking sensors packed up an so he took it to a dealership to be fixed. £100 bill and the parking sensors work again. Shortly after, they stopped working again and he went back to the dealers and complained. The chap on the service desk popped outside with him, sat in the car, fiddled through the idrive and switched them back on with a simple on/off function. My neighbour had basically been accidentally switching them off each time and was charged first time for switching them back on...

If you're the kind of person that likes to try and avoid POTENTIALLY unnecessary cost, I suggest you get your spanners out first and take it to a garage last.

Yes I completely 150% agree, in hindsight, the problem is above me. Was it above me from the outset? Of course not. The amount of times many of us have fixed faults at home at zero cost - I'm sure we all couldn't count on both hands.

[JamesT5]

LeeT5, Ed has not wasted his time because like me, he wants to avoid a garage bill which may not be needed.

I'm getting really fed up of all the jumped up "know it all's" on this forum criticising other members for having a go themselves when doing so may actually solve the problem. If it's a complex job or requires special equipment or an engine remap that requires specialist software then fair enough, take it to a garage. But I fixed my misfire problem on my own driveway without an expensive session on Vida.

[claymore]

LeeT5, Ed has not wasted his time because like me, he wants to avoid a garage bill which may not be needed.

I'm getting really fed up of all the jumped up "know it all's" on this forum criticising other members for having a go themselves when doing so may actually solve the problem. If it's a complex job or requires special equipment or an engine remap that requires specialist software then fair enough, take it to a garage. But I fixed my misfire problem on my own driveway without an expensive session on Vida.

Who's criticizing, we all have opinions, and the majority of opinions was to get the car onto a proper diagnostic, as far as I can see, 10 days have been wasted faffing about in the dark for nothing.

[JamesT5]

Who's criticizing, we all have opinions, and the majority of opinions was to get the car onto a proper diagnostic, as far as I can see, 10 days have been wasted faffing about in the dark for nothing.

It's not what people do/say, it's the way they do it!

[M-R-P]

LeeT5, Ed has not wasted his time because like me, he wants to avoid a garage bill which may not be needed.

I'm getting really fed up of all the jumped up "know it all's" on this forum criticising other members for having a go themselves when doing so may actually solve the problem. If it's a complex job or requires special equipment or an engine remap that requires specialist software then fair enough, take it to a garage. But I fixed my misfire problem on my own driveway without an expensive session on Vida.
Your misfire problem was a physical problem that you could see and subsequently fix.
The problem you have now, going by the vast amount of descriptions of not only the symptoms but your efforts to resolve them, isn't something that can be sorted without a proper diagnostic. Fair play for trying James, I've nothing but respect for your efforts but you should realise when you're beat mate.

I've seen no criticism so far other than asking why you've not done the obvious and plug the bloody thing into vida and get it sorted!

Are we being jumped - up knowitalls or are you being pig-headed and blind to the facts?

Personally, I'm fed up with banging my head against a brick wall with this - I'm out.

[Leeds_finest]

Personally, I'm fed up with banging my head against a brick wall with this - I'm out.

Hold on a second, we've tried, we've failed... and now it's being taken to a dealer this week as suggested - what's your problem????

:eye-poppi

James is fed up with people for knocking other peoples efforts. I sympathise with him. Admittedly you did say try MRG from the start but even you suggested swapping the FPR so you must have thought there was a point in trying ourselves first?

Some people won't say anything at all, until you fail, then come out with silly comments like "I knew all along you should've had a Volvo diagnostic"... easy to say afterwards isn't it?

Will update once has been plugged into VIDA.

[M-R-P]

Hold on a second, we've tried, we've failed... and now it's being taken to a dealer this week as suggested - what's your problem????

:eye-poppi

James is fed up with people for knocking other peoples efforts. I sympathise with him. Admittedly you did say try MRG from the start but even you suggested swapping the FPR so you must have thought there was a point in trying ourselves first?

Some people won't say anything at all, until you fail, then come out with silly comments like "I knew all along you should've had a Volvo diagnostic"... easy to say afterwards isn't it?

Will update once has been plugged into VIDA.

That's not my problem mate. It's having said (along with many others) to get the thing (s) (yours and James' cars) plugged in some time ago, and being ignored, then having said it again and again but getting an attitude back for my efforts.
I don't recall mentioning the fuel pressure regulator (I have a spare if you want it) but I could list a load of stuff you haven't tried but you probably wouldn't be able to test those things without specialist equipment.

I just don't like to see people waste their time and I feel I've wasted mine, constantly saying the same thing, only to get it knocked back. I did sympathise with James but he's not doing himself any favors by gobbing - off at the people who have been trying to help him and you for months now.

I hope you guys get your cars sorted, I honestly do. I've done all I can so I'm gonna leave it there as I don't want any animosity between us all.

[Leeds_finest]

That's not my problem mate. It's having said (along with many others) to get the thing (s) (yours and James' cars) plugged in some time ago, and being ignored, then having said it again and again but getting an attitude back for my efforts.
I don't recall mentioning the fuel pressure regulator (I have a spare if you want it) but I could list a load of stuff you haven't tried but you probably wouldn't be able to test those things without specialist equipment.

I just don't like to see people waste their time and I feel I've wasted mine, constantly saying the same thing, only to get it knocked back. I did sympathise with James but he's not doing himself any favors by gobbing - off at the people who have been trying to help him and you for months now.

I hope you guys get your cars sorted, I honestly do. I've done all I can so I'm gonna leave it there as I don't want any animosity between us all.

You haven't been ignored by me at all. I acknowledge people's points but this weekend was the first opportunity to actually put pen to paper and try and figure the problem out.

Given that there's no codes or EML showing whatsoever it actually defies logic to plug a computer into it doesn't it... When you stop and think about it? I do see that there maybe something in resetting the throttle body, however.

There's no animosity at all, some people (excluding yourself) just need to realise that negative input doesn't solve a problem. We can all sit on the fence until the end and then say 'told you so' but that's doesn't help anyone.


Thanks

[LeeT5]

Given that there's no codes or EML showing whatsoever it actually defies logic to plug a computer into it doesn't it... When you stop and think about it?


Thanks

Actually, NO. As i have said and others before, just because you don't have an EML and no generic codes from your generic code reader, does not mean there aren't any fault codes logged.

A generic code reader will only interrogate the main engine ECU and it's only as accurate as the software that is built into the reader to enable it to correctly decipher the ECU's codes in the first place.
So you read the car with your code reader and as said (the blind leads the blind) assume there is nothing serious or faulty with your car and crack on trying to fix it by swapping bits out, just because your code reader says "No fault codes logged".

As Claymore said, a complete waste of time and effort when all you needed to do was have VIDA plugged in. So it would of cost you £75 at the dealer, so what! At least you would have put this to bed ages ago. Also, not knowing what the actual fault was, how do you know you weren't doing more damage by continuing to drive/use the car? I have seen a catalyst on a Citroen glow cherry red because of a faulty coil pack and the bloke only drove 3 miles!! He has probably done irreversible damage to the catalyst but we will never know until its next MOT.

Gone are the days that most problems can be fixed by hitting them with a hammer. In this day an age, ALL garages have to rely on Diagnostic equipment to be able to accurately interrogate vehicle ECUs and Modules. You both own P2 cars and thus you must, at the very least, have them code read (properly) before you undertake trying to fix them.

Cast your mind back to Martyns P2R with his running problems when he had the AMS system fitted. I don't know who else he spoke to but i know he regularly rang me for advice, which i willingly gave. He had tried everything and for months the saga went on. I kept saying to him, get your codes read and live readings checked! He was even raping parts from his Dad's car in a vain effort to eliminate components.

At the end of the day he admitted defeat and drove the epic journey to MRG where i actually drove 230 miles myself to meet him. Once there MRG plugged into his car to get MAF readings (live), as my car also has the AMS system and drove perfect, they would also compare his readings to mine. They correctly diagnosed a faulty MAF and when plugged into mine, this was confirmed and it was plain to see his MAF was just out of operating limits but not enough to put on an EML. Due to the increased airflow from the AMS S/S filter the faulty MAF was not able to accurately measure air flow and therfore the ECU was doing its own adjustments causing the car to run rich/lean (i can't remember). One new MAF later and Martyn was a happy bunny.......well, until his Angle gear blew up on the way home :slap:

The point is, you cannot own a P2 or any car post 2001 without relying heavily on Diagnostics, good ones at that. Also being able to decipher what they mean! Then apply that to accurately diagnosing and rectifying the fault.

If that's not above your head then i've no idea why it's taken so long to sort and why so much time and effort was wasted in trying to cure the problem.

MRP is right too. JamesT5 fault was physical and relatively easy to fix. Well done James!! Thou, it would have been diagnosed a lot quicker if he had VIDA. :saythat:

Leeds Finest, i'm afraid, yours was never going to be obvious and that is what we've all been trying to say all along.

CODES< CODES< CODES!!!!

Am interested to find out what the problem was! ;)

[LeeT5]

LeeT5, Ed has not wasted his time because like me, he wants to avoid a garage bill which may not be needed.

I'm getting really fed up of all the jumped up "know it all's" on this forum criticising other members for having a go themselves when doing so may actually solve the problem. If it's a complex job or requires special equipment or an engine remap that requires specialist software then fair enough, take it to a garage. But I fixed my misfire problem on my own driveway without an expensive session on Vida.

No offense taken! :hug:

[jardon]

£80 for a DiCE!!!!!

It will show you stuff that's "half broken" - pending/soft faults as well as hard faults (the type your generic code reader spots).

[Leeds_finest]

If it is the case that VIDA can pick up codes that a generic code reader can't and can in fact pick up codes that don't show an EML then I have got the wrong end of the stick.

I was under the impression that VIDA picks up on the codes just as a normal code reader does but can also provide live data (which some detailed generic code readers do too)... It would seem this is not the case.

I still stand by what I said before - it wasn't over our heads from the outset as it couldve been something simple like a loose clip or plug - had it have been that which was a perfectly conceivable idea - would it have been over our heads then? No.

Our efforts cost us nothing but a Saturday afternoon (and I replaced a fuel filter which was probably due anyway). I don't rely on my car as I use a work van...

...nothing lost if you ask me.

[Leeds_finest]

£80 for a DiCE!!!!!

It will show you stuff that's "half broken" - pending/soft faults as well as hard faults (the type your generic code reader spots).

I know mate I had the VIDA/dice but sold it and didn't think I would need to reinvest.

Just out of interest which throttle body does yours have? The original one?

[jardon]

I know mate I had the VIDA/dice but sold it and didn't think I would need to reinvest.

Just out of interest which throttle body does yours have? The original one?

A DiCE will also read and record live data. My car had the later 2002- Bosch ETM which CAN be replaced without Volvo making any software alterations. They are not prone to failure though I did "§§§§ in the wind" by changing it on a hunch for a 2008 unit and it made no difference.

My signature should now read "Bog standard 2005 D5". Must change that soon.

[Leeds_finest]

So if an ETM plays up on an early P2 your advice is to go Bosch?

Due in tomorrow 12pm we will hopefully find the fault.

[V70 Graham]

Due in tomorrow 12pm we will hopefully find the fault.

If its plugged in at 1200 you should have a good idea by 1215

[silverhorse]

If it is the case that VIDA can pick up codes that a generic code reader can't and can in fact pick up codes that don't show an EML then I have got the wrong end of the stick.

I was under the impression that VIDA picks up on the codes just as a normal code reader does

The difference between ViDA and even the best generic readers is like night and day. I bet when you get plugged in, there will be a few things waiting for you. ViDA uses a traffic light system. Green fault is info only. Yellow and you should maybe get on the case. Red, it needs doing fairly sharpish.
Interestingly, in some cases even a red warning may not put EML on.
I am running around with a couple of yellows and a green.
As LeeT5 has said, techies nowadays plug the car in as a matter of course and go from there according to what the screen says, not what the customer says.

You and James have done some sterling work over the past few weeks, good effort all round. BUT, I think the time has come to go to a dealer or an indie. They probably see Volvo's with your symptoms every week and will know instantly what needs doing. If nothing else, it sounds like you both had a good poke around the cars on saturday and had a nice steak dinner, but ultimately you are both still at square one!!

In a weird sort of way, I hope when you do get plugged in there are some serious codes, as at least then you and James will be able to see whats what. I don't mean that in a nasty way, but it will put the matter to rest.

May I suggest too that your next post on this subject is one saying that it is all fixed and you are on the road again!!:beer:

[jardon]

So if an ETM plays up on an early P2 your advice is to go Bosch?

Due in tomorrow 12pm we will hopefully find the fault.

Sadly they are not interchangeable so no. The Bosch unit is "dumb" and does no processing but the MM unit does - hence the software issues,

[LeeT5]

If its plugged in at 1200 you should have a good idea by 1215

precisely!

[Santa]

Just read through this thread. At least its balanced but I think maybe some have taken things a bit personally.

Really its all down to "Each to their own".

Many who have commented on the thread have put their views across respectfully and should be commended in doing so. Everyone's different and some people will want a car or problem fixed ASAP, others will want to have a tinker and can take their time, maybe even learn something. Others have experienced a similar issue before and have the benefits of that experience to impart.

Anyway chill, its a forum, it's supposed to be a place where (sometimes differing) views and ideas are exchanged :)

[V70 Graham]

Today's the day, looking forward to seeing what shows up on the diagnostic scan.

[Leeds_finest]

Right then:

Car went to my local dealers today. They plugged it into VIDA and there was a lambda and TPS code which were both OLD codes. These were cleared and the ECM/ETM reload was carried out.

Sadly, the car still runs poorly and the codes did not reappear either. The technician said if he had to put his money on a fault, it would be the throttle body still (but that was a stab in the dark and there's no clear answer like we were all hoping for).


MOVING ON AND PUTTING OUR DIFFERENCES ASIDE...


I see my options as:

1. £300 for a Volvo throttle body and reload. If this doesn't fix the problem, surely I won't have to foot the bill?

2. Try and send my throttle body back to the person who did the TPS repair and get it looked at.

3. Seek other knowledge/advice and assume that the throttle body repair and reload has worked fine and in fact the problem is not this at all.

I welcome any advice from any VPC members that still wish to help.



Many thanks :rainfro:

[claymore]

That's a §§§§§§, out of interest, during all your diagnostics, did you check the throttle switch as Martin suggested?

[Leeds_finest]

The switch on the pedal itself? No I haven't checked it but I can if one of you guys walks me through it...

...or if its self explanatory ill have a prod at the weekend?!



Thanks

[JamesT5]

So here we are then, the 'magical fix' that is Vida has done jack all. Perhaps Ed, you and I did better than we thought!

[graemewelch]

my money is on a faulty part been fitted. if vida hasnt done it then yous never stood a chance. did they take it for a decent drive befor trying to read codes again. my local specialist didnt charge me last time read codes cause couldnt fix it was spot on with diagnosis. was it a dealer you went to or specialist. some dealers realy dont have a clue and other are genuine clever people like mrg hlm and several others. dont give up but at same time be sensible and dont throw money at it. has the car had a compression check done. if not id one. id send you.mine but im stuck.in bed

[claymore]

So here we are then, the 'magical fix' that is Vida has done jack all. Perhaps Ed, you and I did better than we thought!

James, I think you were secretly hoping that vida wouldn't turn up anything, so that you could vindicate yourself, just remember you didn't fix the problem either, so stop gloating.

[JamesT5]

James, I think you were secretly hoping that vida wouldn't turn up anything, so that you could vindicate yourself, just remember you didn't fix the problem either, so stop gloating.

Not at all, it just proves Vida isn't the be all and end all.

[V70 Graham]

Bit of a bummer that there is no definitive answer.

[Leeds_finest]

Faulty throttle body repair Graeme? Quite possibly although Jez's repair by same person seems ok but could be yes. I'm not sure if it was driven again as I wasn't present but I doubt it was mate.

I was genuinely hoping it WOULD fix the car as I want to use it again!! I could take it to MRG although they're a bit far from here... Maybe Pye Volvo next :(

[Leeds_finest]

That's a §§§§§§, out of interest, during all your diagnostics, did you check the throttle switch as Martin suggested?

As above, is it easy to test and is it situated behind the pedal? Is it easy to find?

Thanks

[graemewelch]

Faulty throttle body repair Graeme? Quite possibly although Jez's repair by same person seems ok but could be yes. I'm not sure if it was driven again as I wasn't present but I doubt it was mate.

I was genuinely hoping it WOULD fix the car as I want to use it again!! I could take it to MRG although they're a bit far from here... Maybe Pye Volvo next :(


yes it could be possible. did they give you any discount saying as they never gave you a answer. idealy they should of took it out. i alway write down my milage if i use a garage which is getting more and more often. im back home sat if want yo do a compression check. i can happily talk you through it. its def worth speaking to t5lee. he has a dantastic amount of knolodge when it comes to this kind of problem. not only is he a breakdown guy hut hes a volvo enthusiast and perfectionist. did you say were you close to hlm. might be worth a xall yo hamish. he will be ablevto do a rolling road run and read the live date. i also beleve shark performance have all the latest software to and very very good knolidge of volvos. excuse my spelling. its on a mobile and im full of morphine

[Leeds_finest]

yes it could be possible. did they give you any discount saying as they never gave you a answer. idealy they should of took it out. i alway write down my milage if i use a garage which is getting more and more often. im back home sat if want yo do a compression check. i can happily talk you through it. its def worth speaking to t5lee. he has a dantastic amount of knolodge when it comes to this kind of problem. not only is he a breakdown guy hut hes a volvo enthusiast and perfectionist. did you say were you close to hlm. might be worth a xall yo hamish. he will be ablevto do a rolling road run and read the live date. i also beleve shark performance have all the latest software to and very very good knolidge of volvos. excuse my spelling. its on a mobile and im full of morphine

Yes mate they discounted from a full hours labour down to 2/3 hours labour as fault was not found - seemed fair to me.

Yes HLM not too far could always call them and see what they say??

[Leeds_finest]

As for compression test, it's worth a try, had to compression test my S60R before so I'm no stranger to that one.

I'll do that at weekend and report back.


Thanks mate

[graemewelch]

bet you wish youd kept the s60r now. prob a cracking motor with all the jobs you done to it. ive been very lucky with mine. only real thing to let me down was the rica ppc unit which hamish sorted in no time. he put it on rolling road. saw that the ppc unit had only removed part of the remap file so wasvrunning mega rich and fouling the plugs. he put standard file on done 2nd run and checked codes. all fine then put the autotech map one. job done. been perfect ever since. apart from the map made the clutch slip butvthats wear and tear

[silverhorse]

Thats a bummer!! I was hoping you would be sorted now. That is a shame:(
I have never used HLM but alot of guys here swear by them so I think you may have to get it to them and leave it with them for a few days. This sounds like a time consuming fault finding exercise, with try something and then a test drive repeated many times. Actually fixing it will probably be simple, its just finding the damn problem....!

[Leeds_finest]

bet you wish youd kept the s60r now. prob a cracking motor with all the jobs you done to it. ive been very lucky with mine. only real thing to let me down was the rica ppc unit which hamish sorted in no time. he put it on rolling road. saw that the ppc unit had only removed part of the remap file so wasvrunning mega rich and fouling the plugs. he put standard file on done 2nd run and checked codes. all fine then put the autotech map one. job done. been perfect ever since. apart from the map made the clutch slip butvthats wear and tear

To be honest mate I'm glad I got rid. The bodywork was nice and clean but mechanically it was a real dog :(

Ok bud maybe a trip to HLM in order then...


Thats a bummer!! I was hoping you would be sorted now. That is a shame:(
I have never used HLM but alot of guys here swear by them so I think you may have to get it to them and leave it with them for a few days. This sounds like a time consuming fault finding exercise, with try something and then a test drive repeated many times. Actually fixing it will probably be simple, its just finding the damn problem....!

Exactly... It's definitely something simple I know this but finding it is a pain as you say.

[JamesT5]

Ed, remember we tested my reasonably healthy (as it turns out), ETM in your car it we still encountered problems. I have a feeling the ETM is not therefore at fault and my money is still sitting firmly on a sensor most likely linked to boost control (remember the road test we did).

By the way, I tried phoning you yesterday but it went to answerphone, we'll have to get in touch later today for a chat. :B_thumb:

[graemewelch]

live date on the rolling road will give all the info needed. james i thought your motor wasnt running perfectly. if yous have simular problems then might be changing poor part for bad part. just a thought and not a dig

[JamesT5]

live date on the rolling road will give all the info needed. james i thought your motor wasnt running perfectly. if yous have simular problems then might be changing poor part for bad part. just a thought and not a dig

No, mine seems to be running fine now, I've had no rough running and no MAF or Throttle Position Sensor codes since I last reported it.

My main focus right now is my transmission issue but this is the wrong thread to discuss that in.

[Chad]

Hi Ed,

can you remember who you spoke to at GRN?

As it was not myself or Benny...

I did ask and no body recalls speaking to you about this problem.

thanks

Chad

[LeeT5]

yes it could be possible. did they give you any discount saying as they never gave you a answer. idealy they should of took it out. i alway write down my milage if i use a garage which is getting more and more often. im back home sat if want yo do a compression check. i can happily talk you through it. its def worth speaking to t5lee. he has a dantastic amount of knolodge when it comes to this kind of problem. not only is he a breakdown guy hut hes a volvo enthusiast and perfectionist. did you say were you close to hlm. might be worth a xall yo hamish. he will be ablevto do a rolling road run and read the live date. i also beleve shark performance have all the latest software to and very very good knolidge of volvos. excuse my spelling. its on a mobile and im full of morphine

:wave23d: Did you mean....LeeT5? That's me! :banana:

I know nothing. In fact I've sold my Volvo and now own a Toyota previa! :rotfl::rolleyes:

[LeeT5]

Refitted my overhauled throttle body and my car runs just as bad, if not worse.

On automatic choke it seemed fine, as soon as the revs settled on idle it just seemed to misfire and splutter.

Typically, no EML - yet there's quite clearly a problem (it's not even registering a misfire).

Getting sick of this car I cannot believe I bought another P2 Volvo, my first one was unreliable and now this is too.

OK,

lets start again.

firstly, your definition of a misfire! Can you elaborate?

What do you mean by "splutter"?

Aside from the fact it's been to a dealer and they only spent 1 hour on it, they were unlikely to get anywhere in such a short space of time. You haven't said what their conclusion was? Did they want to spend more time on it or did they (rather ashamedly) say they can't find what's wrong?

Can you do me a massive favor?? I need you to post a video of the engines behavior from cold start please. You don't need to do a running commentary, just a video from cold start to warm idle. Include some revving from base idle to 3000rpm from outside the car if possible. Get your missus to hold the camera and you do the revving.

Lets go from there....

[graemewelch]

:wave23d: Did you mean....LeeT5? That's me! :banana:

I know nothing. In fact I've sold my Volvo and now own a Toyota previa! :rotfl::rolleyes:


haha id laugh if i saw you in a toyota people carrier. i bet that R will be with you for a lot of years. im sure now eds getting the right advice and not listening to hearsay that gose on on forums. thatl hell get to the bottom of a annoying issue.

[Leeds_finest]

Hi Ed,

can you remember who you spoke to at GRN?

As it was not myself or Benny...

I did ask and no body recalls speaking to you about this problem.

thanks

Chad

Hi Chad.

I really don't know who it was. Whoever it was, they didn't sound as switched on as whoever I've spoken to at GRN before?

I mentioned that I had swapped my throttle position sensor and was seeing if I needed a reload/reconfigure and the person thought I had changed my MAF?

Anyway, car will need attention soon if you think you guys can shed some light - I shall bring it down.


Many thanks



OK,

lets start again.

firstly, your definition of a misfire! Can you elaborate?

What do you mean by "splutter"?

Aside from the fact it's been to a dealer and they only spent 1 hour on it, they were unlikely to get anywhere in such a short space of time. You haven't said what their conclusion was? Did they want to spend more time on it or did they (rather ashamedly) say they can't find what's wrong?

Can you do me a massive favor?? I need you to post a video of the engines behavior from cold start please. You don't need to do a running commentary, just a video from cold start to warm idle. Include some revving from base idle to 3000rpm from outside the car if possible. Get your missus to hold the camera and you do the revving.

Lets go from there....

Right,

On idle the car runs fine at first. Then I suppose you could say it sounds reminiscent of 'hunting'. Sometimes it's rhythmic, like it would be if you disconnected one coil pack for example, and other times it has no rhythm and is literally all over the place between say 600rpm-1000rpm.

By splutter I mean it's as though you are taking your foot on and off the throttle even when your foot is at a steady, constant throttle depression.

Apparently one hour is run of the mill for a diagnostic session and that included the ECM reload - what else can I say? They were typically 'grey' about the answer... apparently the technician and service desk adviser said they would put their money on it being the throttle body still - although this was not a solid answer.

Yes, i'll try to record it from cold start over the weekend.


Thank you.

[Leeds_finest]

Just wanted to say thank you to Chad from GRN for takin the time to speak to me today about my car.

Will hopefully get it down there this week if they can fit me in.


Thanks again.

[Jamest5r]

Just wanted to say thank you to Chad from GRN for takin the time to speak to me today about my car.

Will hopefully get it down there this week if they can fit me in.


Thanks again.

Post 63 :)

[Leeds_finest]

I wasn't opposed to taking it there or anywhere to be honest mate, I just wanted to try and get it sorted myself first :)

(Which I failed at miserably haha)

[mr shifter]

I wasn't opposed to taking it there or anywhere to be honest mate, I just wanted to try and get it sorted myself first :)

(Which I failed at miserably haha)

I see failure as not bothering in the first place. Trying to sort issues and not doing so is not failing in my opinion. At least you tried !!!

[JamesT5]

I see failure as not bothering in the first place. Trying to sort issues and not doing so is not failing in my opinion. At least you tried !!!

Well said!

[graemewelch]

hope things are going well at grn. i look forward to hearing what was up.

[LeeT5]

Video?????

[Leeds_finest]

hope things are going well at grn. i look forward to hearing what was up.


Video?????

Right guys,

Admittedly I did forget to take a video but the lumpy idle is now solved so I suppose I need to video the car moving through the revs...

UPDATE:

Took car to GRN who diagnosed the problem as throttle body fault with three permanent throttle body error codes. As the chap who "repaired" mine is away for a few weeks I had to keep things moving so bought a genuine Volvo item and had it reloaded at Volvo once fitted.

It didn't fix the running problem, just straightened out the lumpy idle, so I picked the car up and drove home. On the way home, the car seemed to semi-fix itself. I would describe it as running smoothly through the revs at about 80% of it's usual power/potential. However, I was pleased with this progress.

Popped to supermarket and on way home, typical, started to play up again. At wide open throttle, the car feels under powered and is very on/off as though my foot is being taken on and off the pedal.

The car is now back at GRN for further diagnosis.

Thoughts?

[JamesT5]

Right guys,

Admittedly I did forget to take a video but the lumpy idle is now solved so I suppose I need to video the car moving through the revs...

UPDATE:

Took car to GRN who diagnosed the problem as throttle body fault with three permanent throttle body error codes. As the chap who "repaired" mine is away for a few weeks I had to keep things moving so bought a genuine Volvo item and had it reloaded at Volvo once fitted.

It didn't fix the running problem, just straightened out the lumpy idle, so I picked the car up and drove home. On the way home, the car seemed to semi-fix itself. I would describe it as running smoothly through the revs at about 80% of it's usual power/potential. However, I was pleased with this progress.

Popped to supermarket and on way home, typical, started to play up again. At wide open throttle, the car feels under powered and is very on/off as though my foot is being taken on and off the pedal.

The car is now back at GRN for further diagnosis.

Thoughts?

Just what happened when we put my "healthy" throttle body on your car, rough idle went and then it surged on the road test.

Ed, did they investigate the possibility it's a boost control sensor or solenoid as I suggested when we met? I still think it's something along those lines......

Regards

James

[graemewelch]

let grn crack on mate. there the experts mate. theyll get to the bottom of it.

[JamesT5]

let grn crack on mate. there the experts mate. theyll get to the bottom of it.

And if they don't?

[V70 Graham]

And if they don't?

They will.....nothing's un-fixable car wise

[V70 Graham]

They will.....nothing's un-fixable car wise

.....they will at least diagnose it, having it fixed is up to you.

[graemewelch]

And if they don't?

as graham says they will. thats what they do. theyve all the equipment to pin point the problem or problems. this car obvisily has more than one issue which is prob why yous didnt get to the bottom of it

[Leeds_finest]

Yes I agree with Graeme, it must have had more than one problem.

New throttle body has calmed the erratic idle, but driving it is power less and lumpy.

I really hope they do pin point the issue, although they reckon it may be trial and error too if the car doesn't show any codes :(

Ed

[volvokid]

At least they are willing yo persevere most garages are useless with fault finding.

[graemewelch]

thing is theyll be able to use live data to sees whats happening and thats somthing we cant do as a diy mechanic.

[M-R-P]

Yes I agree with Graeme, it must have had more than one problem.

New throttle body has calmed the erratic idle, but driving it is power less and lumpy.

I really hope they do pin point the issue, although they reckon it may be trial and error too if the car doesn't show any codes :(

Ed

Has any of the replacement etms been coded for the car yet?

When my mate fitted a brand new etm from a scrapper, it idled fine but drove like a dog.

[Leeds_finest]

I really hope they do otherwise I will be forced to draw the line and sell it as spares or repair I think.

Have to draw the line somewhere just thrown £300 at a new throttle body etc can't spend much more on a car only worth approx £1700 at best.

[Leeds_finest]

Has any of the replacement etms been coded for the car yet?

When my mate fitted a brand new etm from a scrapper, it idled fine but drove like a dog.

Yes bud, following your advice it had an ETM reload and sadly didn't fix the fault.... Or may have fixed one of the many faults?

[M-R-P]

Yes bud, following your advice it had an ETM reload and sadly didn't fix the fault.... Or may have fixed one of the many faults?

Hmmm...

Proper pickle there.

Had a go at the pedal sensor yet?

[JamesT5]

Boost sensor, I keep saying. :D

[silverhorse]

I can't be ars3d to read all the posts on this thread again from the start, so apologies if you have already covered it.....

I have been doing a bit of work on my 2005 V70 2.4 T5, one of the jobs being ETM off and clean. After doing the rear ARB links this afternoon I thought I would go for a spin.
I was giving the car full beans in 3rd when there was a big pop, gush of air and the turbo released all its boost and the car started to splutter and fart and then die.
I got the car going again but it was very lumpy at idle, very low power and generally not good.
My immediate thought was I had popped a hose but I could not see anything obvious. When I got home (only just!!) and the car had cooled down I did a bit of poking about and found that the pipe to the ETM had popped off nearly completely. It was still seated, but not sealed so I assume that this caused the loss of air pressure and caused the car to fart and die.

My point is...........-lumpy idle
- no power
- ETM pipe.
also worth noting, NO FAULT CODES OR EML lights!!!

This all sounds familiar to you doesn't it?

Anyway, pipe to ETM now secured and all is well.
I know I have the Bosch unit and you the MM, but the principle of operation will be the same. Is all the pipework secure and not split?

[graemewelch]

i think its time to stop with the guessing about random sensors and let the garage do what they do best and fix volvos. the garage havnt even viewed it for a 2nd time yet and its back to might be this could be that.

[silverhorse]

and its back to might be this could be that.

It could also quite conceivably be the other

[Leeds_finest]

Hmmm...

Proper pickle there.

Had a go at the pedal sensor yet?

Not yet.

With keeping in line with the "don't throw money at it" and "take it to a professional" I haven't done any further work although pedal sensor isn't a bad suggest still.

Had anyone on here replaced theirs?


Boost sensor, I keep saying. :D

Mate I appreciate your spirit and enjoyed trying to find the fault myself but I'm with Graeme now it needs diagnosing properly and GRN didn't suggest a boost sensor even after test driving it several times.

That's not to say it isn't a boost sensor, but lets see what they come up with first.


I can't be ars3d to read all the posts on this thread again from the start, so apologies if you have already covered it.....

I have been doing a bit of work on my 2005 V70 2.4 T5, one of the jobs being ETM off and clean. After doing the rear ARB links this afternoon I thought I would go for a spin.
I was giving the car full beans in 3rd when there was a big pop, gush of air and the turbo released all its boost and the car started to splutter and fart and then die.
I got the car going again but it was very lumpy at idle, very low power and generally not good.
My immediate thought was I had popped a hose but I could not see anything obvious. When I got home (only just!!) and the car had cooled down I did a bit of poking about and found that the pipe to the ETM had popped off nearly completely. It was still seated, but not sealed so I assume that this caused the loss of air pressure and caused the car to fart and die.

My point is...........-lumpy idle
- no power
- ETM pipe.
also worth noting, NO FAULT CODES OR EML lights!!!

This all sounds familiar to you doesn't it?

Anyway, pipe to ETM now secured and all is well.
I know I have the Bosch unit and you the MM, but the principle of operation will be the same. Is all the pipework secure and not split?

Thanks for the input but the problem occurred long before the throttle body was first removed and I have swapped it on and off several times now so unless it was loose in first instance and I've put it on wrong each time, then I don't think this is the culprit plus GRN will spot it easily if it is (I hope).


i think its time to stop with the guessing about random sensors and let the garage do what they do best and fix volvos. the garage havnt even viewed it for a 2nd time yet and its back to might be this could be that.

As above.

[silverhorse]

Keep plugging away mate. You'll get there in the end!!!
I can't wait to hear what is wrong with yours and James car! Hope it is nothing too drastic. You are doing the right thing though by taking it to a garage. some things are best done by a pro.

[Leeds_finest]

Thanks mate I just want it sorted now so I can get rid of the money pit. Fantastic when it works, but horrendous when it doesn't.

Agreed, I tried all I could now a garage needs to diagnose the fault.

[graemewelch]

youve just been unlucky. once its fixed youll get loads of trouble free motoring

[Leeds_finest]

Somebody else will lol.

End of the road for me and Volvo I think. Anything I touch goes wrong though... Thinking back, the most reliable brand I've owned (no joke) was Vauxhall and for my dad it's been Peugeot. No others have compared: Honda, BMW (3 times), VW, Volvo...

...but as you say a lot is down to bad luck.

[JamesT5]

Somebody else will lol.

End of the road for me and Volvo I think. Anything I touch goes wrong though... Thinking back, the most reliable brand I've owned (no joke) was Vauxhall and for my dad it's been Peugeot. No others have compared: Honda, BMW (3 times), VW, Volvo...

...but as you say a lot is down to bad luck.

I've been more unlucky but then my car has twice the mileage on of yours.

[jardon]

thing is theyll be able to use live data to sees whats happening and thats somthing we cant do as a diy mechanic.

DiCE. £80. All the live data action a Volvo dealer or indie will have.

[graemewelch]

DiCE. £80. All the live data action a Volvo dealer or indie will have.


having the software and the ability to use it correctly are two totally different things

[jardon]

having the software and the ability to use it correctly are two totally different things


Agreed but if I can use it I reckon it's a cheap DIY tool.

[JamesT5]

having the software and the ability to use it correctly are two totally different things

Don't tell me, you've "been on the course" and got a 90% discount on the fee?

[graemewelch]

Don't tell me, you've "been on the course" and got a 90% discount on the fee?
im not going to rise to your sarcastic comments james. ive tried to ignore them but your childish behavour is getting annoying

[LeeT5]

having the software and the ability to use it correctly are two totally different things

I couldn't agree more!

[graemewelch]

hows the car coming on. have they managed to get to the bottom of it yet

[Leeds_finest]

hows the car coming on. have they managed to get to the bottom of it yet

Graeme - just noticed you're running a decat now. How is this holding up with EML or limp mode? Any funny behaviour?

UPDATE:

GRN have finally fixed the car. It is believed to have been one of the boost sensors in the intake pipe between TB and IC. In addition, a brand new lambda sensor (pre-cat) was fitted which has now cured all problems.

SO, to summarise, it would seem that the car had three problems all along: boost, lambda and throttle :( I don't think any one of us would have anticipated this much going wrong all at once.

Thank you to everyone who has had an input into this thread, I hope we all remember this for future reference when somebody elses car shows same symptoms.


Many thanks

Ed

[graemewelch]

glad your car is sorted mate. hope its a keeper now. havnt the decat yet but have spoke to others who have and they fitted a spacer and all is well

[silverhorse]

Happy days Ed. Now you can enjoy your car!! Glad you are all sorted.
Hows James getting on BTW?

[V70 Graham]

Glad your all sorted mate GRN to the rescue.....again.

[Harvey]

I really do hope this very long thread is now at a close.
And even better the car is now running the way it should ,great new after all.

[LeeT5]

Glad your car is fixed. I'm gonna go 200 cell not decat.

[Harvey]

Glad your car is fixed. I'm gonna go 200 cell not decat.

Funny you say that that's what most people say as it then not a problem at MOT time that's what I am looking at.

[Leeds_finest]

I really hope the problems are over and IF it is driving as it was when I first bought it, I know it will put a smile on my face :)

As for downpipe, I don't really see the point changing unless you go for full flow. I have a 3 inch decat made by Graeme although not yet fitted.

Chad from GRN seems to think the ECU doesn't like a decat, which is a fair point.

I know lads with Focus ST's though and they run 3" Piper systems from turbo back with no cat what so ever and they never have faults. This is the Volvo derived 2.5 turbo.

[graemewelch]

just the increase in bore makes a huge difference. ive ran the 3" down pipe with 100 cell cat and i noticed a difference as soon as i fitted it. youll gain moe bhp with a decat but then youve got the chalange of the ecu not liking it and having to change it come mot time.

[M-R-P]

Graeme - just noticed you're running a decat now. How is this holding up with EML or limp mode? Any funny behaviour?

UPDATE:

GRN have finally fixed the car. It is believed to have been one of the boost sensors in the intake pipe between TB and IC. In addition, a brand new lambda sensor (pre-cat) was fitted which has now cured all problems.

SO, to summarise, it would seem that the car had three problems all along: boost, lambda and throttle :( I don't think any one of us would have anticipated this much going wrong all at once.

Thank you to everyone who has had an input into this thread, I hope we all remember this for future reference when somebody elses car shows same symptoms.


Many thanks

Ed

Glad you've finally got somewhere Ed, I was cringing when you were talking of "cutting your losses".

I'm surprised the problems weren't picked up on the scan though.

[Leeds_finest]

just the increase in bore makes a huge difference. ive ran the 3" down pipe with 100 cell cat and i noticed a difference as soon as i fitted it. youll gain moe bhp with a decat but then youve got the chalange of the ecu not liking it and having to change it come mot time.

This is true - I look forward to trying mine out!


Glad you've finally got somewhere Ed, I was cringing when you were talking of "cutting your losses".

I'm surprised the problems weren't picked up on the scan though.

It would've been a last resort but i'm glad it hasn't come to that :)

[M-R-P]

So, now she's running properly, give her a detail and let's have some pictures :)

[V70 Graham]

So, now she's running properly, give her a detail and let's have some pictures :)

Wot he said !

[M-R-P]

I really hope the problems are over and IF it is driving as it was when I first bought it, I know it will put a smile on my face :)

As for downpipe, I don't really see the point changing unless you go for full flow. I have a 3 inch decat made by Graeme although not yet fitted.

Chad from GRN seems to think the ECU doesn't like a decat, which is a fair point.

I know lads with Focus ST's though and they run 3" Piper systems from turbo back with no cat what so ever and they never have faults. This is the Volvo derived 2.5 turbo.

The engine may be similar but they use different engine management. Chances are, the decatted STs are remapped to cope with the mods.

[JamesT5]

Graeme - just noticed you're running a decat now. How is this holding up with EML or limp mode? Any funny behaviour?

UPDATE:

GRN have finally fixed the car. It is believed to have been one of the boost sensors in the intake pipe between TB and IC. In addition, a brand new lambda sensor (pre-cat) was fitted which has now cured all problems.

SO, to summarise, it would seem that the car had three problems all along: boost, lambda and throttle :( I don't think any one of us would have anticipated this much going wrong all at once.

Thank you to everyone who has had an input into this thread, I hope we all remember this for future reference when somebody elses car shows same symptoms.


Many thanks

Ed

Hurray! Did I not say a boost sensor problem earlier in the thread..? ;)