Confused about wishbone bush......

[silverhorse]

Replacing front wishbone bushes and got old ones out. About to try to fit new ones but they are too big??!!

2138721388

There is a metal sleeve inside the wishbone and there is a metal sleeve on the outside of the bush. It seems there should only be a metal sleeve on one or the other.
What do I do??

[M-R-P]

Should've gone powerflex mate ;)

You'll need to press it in with a vice or a press of some kind, it's supposed to be a very tight fit.

[stephenevans99]

The metal sleeve that's sits in the wishbone, does this need to be chiseled out before the new bush is pressed in ? or is that just when you're polybushing them?

[silverhorse]

Should've gone powerflex mate ;)

You could be right!!


You'll need to press it in with a vice or a press of some kind, it's supposed to be a very tight fit.

So when the bush is pressed in, it deforms slightly/crushes itself and sits very tight??
Thats gonna be a tight fit!!

[silverhorse]

The metal sleeve that's sits in the wishbone, does this need to be chiseled out before the new bush is pressed in ?
Thats what I was wondering.....

or is that just when you're polybushing them?

Looking at MRP's how to guide, the poly bushes slide in easily. No metal sleeve

[M-R-P]

The polys have a lip that locks the bush in place. The OE ones don't, they rely on interference (being jammed in hard) the sleeve should be left in the wishbone.

[silverhorse]

The polys have a lip that locks the bush in place. The OE ones don't, they rely on interference (being jammed in hard) the sleeve should be left in the wishbone.

Poly it is then!!

[graemewelch]

im getting my rear bushes changed today. getting charged 50 inc parts and fitting and 160 to fit dmf

[M-R-P]

LOL, good man - you won't regret it, they make a huge difference to the feel of the car.

Although, I think PFV supply them with metal sleeves on them lol.

use these ;) (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Volvo-S60-V70-S80-2000-on-Powerflex-Front-Lower-Wishbone-Front-Bush-PFF88-601-/120955912970?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item1c2988c30a)

[JamesT5]

Replacing front wishbone bushes and got old ones out. About to try to fit new ones but they are too big??!!

2138721388

There is a metal sleeve inside the wishbone and there is a metal sleeve on the outside of the bush. It seems there should only be a metal sleeve on one or the other.
What do I do??

This is why I gave up trying to polybush my old wishbones and struck a deal with MRP who will be having them off me at Haynes tomorrow. :B_thumb:

[partsforvolvos.com]

The oe peg has a recess so its thinner in the middle. If yours hasent it might be aftermarket. The poly sleeves only fit a peg with the thinner section.

[M-R-P]

I'd just bore the bush out a bit ;)

[V70 Graham]

I'd just bore the bush out a bit ;)

....or bore us to death talking about it lol

[M-R-P]

....or bore us to death talking about it lol

:finger:

[partsforvolvos.com]

here we go, i remembered that i have a reference picture which powerflex kindly gave me , to show what i was trying to explain about the original volvo design being thinner in the middle of the peg.
this is the only design that the powerflex bushes can be fitted to, without it, the bush is too large to go in.

21471

[silverhorse]

Thats put a spanner in the works. My bushes that I have just stripped the rubber off are the straight peg, not the indent peg.:blowingup

[stephenevans99]

I think when i change my wishbones I'll be opting for the Meyle HD ones....less hassle. lol

[M-R-P]

Thats put a spanner in the works. My bushes that I have just stripped the rubber off are the straight peg, not the indent peg.:blowingup

Know anybody with a bench - grinder? just run them down a bit, test fit the peg, run them down a bit more if needed. It's a pretty easy job.
You could even put a 4 1/2" angle grinder in a bench vice and use than (be careful tho ;))

[partsforvolvos.com]

we were just discussing the possiblity of turning them down a bit , i havent seen one of these offending pegs, but in the picture it can't be be more than a 3mm indent.

i assume the large lip at each end is to retain the rubber bushing on the shaft a bit better.

[M-R-P]

Yeah, the OE bush is bigger and oil filled. I've seen these pattern ones machined down before to fit the powerflex bushes (I think Leedsfinest did it) It looks a 5 minute job on a decent bench grinder :)

[M-R-P]

Silverhorse - are you using the bar from the new bush or the one you removed to start with?

[partsforvolvos.com]

they are both without the indent thinner part - new and old.
although apparently the old one that came out still has volvo on it.


i'm going to destroy one of mine to see what's inside.

[M-R-P]

i'm going to destroy one of mine to see what's inside.

I used to do that with video recorders :D

[JamesT5]

i used to do that with video recorders :d

lmao!

[silverhorse]

Silverhorse - are you using the bar from the new bush or the one you removed to start with?

One that came off the car. Has got Volvo stamped on the bush, so must be OE, but they must have changed the design at some point.
Jamie is going to split one of the ones that I have already got from him to see if it is the indent or not.
If push comes to shove, I have 2 options. I have found someone near me with a 25 tonne press, so get wishbone off and press in the bushes I have bought from Jamie, OR grind down pegs to give the indent and fit the powerflex bushes I have got.
Will wait to see what Jamie says

[graemewelch]

when i done mine i turned down one of the pegs. the other i bored out the bush. both are fine.

[partsforvolvos.com]

It's a straight peg. I vote to turn down the peg rather than bore the powerflex bush.

[JamesT5]

By the way, I have a couple of genuine Volvo bars from my old wishbones if they're any use to anyone. I'll need to burn the rubber off of them though.

[silverhorse]

By the way, I have a couple of genuine Volvo bars from my old wishbones if they're any use to anyone. I'll need to burn the rubber off of them though.
PM sent

[silverhorse]

It's a straight peg. I vote to turn down the peg rather than bore the powerflex bush.
Cheers for trying mate

[JamesT5]

Ok, PM sent to Paul but in case anyone can help with the compatibility of these - they're the ones of out of my old wishbones. I've tried cutting away as much rubber as possible.....

http://i1306.photobucket.com/albums/s562/_JamesT5/P1011051_zps46f4d29a.jpg (http://s1306.photobucket.com/user/_JamesT5/media/P1011051_zps46f4d29a.jpg.html)

[Harvey]

Ok, PM sent to Paul but in case anyone can help with the compatibility of these - they're the ones of out of my old wishbones. I've tried cutting away as much rubber as possible.....

http://i1306.photobucket.com/albums/s562/_JamesT5/P1011051_zps46f4d29a.jpg (http://s1306.photobucket.com/user/_JamesT5/media/P1011051_zps46f4d29a.jpg.html)

I can see a BBQ coming out for a hour or so.

[graemewelch]

oxy cetalyne will make easy work of those

[M-R-P]

Not a good idea to get them too hot. It changes the metal and can make it brittle.

I've just cut the metal sleeve from a pair of wishbones (James, you had the right idea!) It was easy too. Then clean the inside of the wishbone with sandpaper, greace it and you can hammer the bush in with a bit of wood!

[graemewelch]

wouldnt be getting them hot enough to change the properties of the metal. just enough to soften the rubber

[M-R-P]

Burning the rubber off the rods is a weird one - you need to get it to carbonize, wait for it to cool, wipe or scrape the charcoal off and repeat. otherwise I found myself just burning and burning with little effect - the carbonized rubber acts like intumescent paint and protects the layer beneath.
If you get it hot enough to incinerate the rubber in one go, the rod can become red hot and that's where you risk problems. It's a risk I wouldn't want to take.

[M-R-P]

Strangely, the polyeurathane bushes that Jamie supplies (the ones with the metal sheath already on them) have rods with the narrowed middle lol...

I fitted a pair earlier...

http://i1100.photobucket.com/albums/g413/martinrpeachey/DSCF0182_zpsf62a6d52.jpg (http://s1100.photobucket.com/user/martinrpeachey/media/DSCF0182_zpsf62a6d52.jpg.html)

http://i1100.photobucket.com/albums/g413/martinrpeachey/DSCF0181_zps8806a1a5.jpg (http://s1100.photobucket.com/user/martinrpeachey/media/DSCF0181_zps8806a1a5.jpg.html)

[Jimmie]

Martin have you ever had to remove the thin metal sleeve to get them to fit?
If you did there might be movement in the bush when fitted as my dealer tried that one .
They also got an engineering shop to try and press the polybush in with the sleeve in place and gave up in the end.
I just fitted new wishbones in the end but the worst of it was there was nothing wrong with the old ones according to volvo but the mot station i use said they were worn.LOL

[silverhorse]

Strangely, the polyeurathane bushes that Jamie supplies (the ones with the metal sheath already on them) have rods with the narrowed middle lol...

I fitted a pair earlier...

http://i1100.photobucket.com/albums/g413/martinrpeachey/DSCF0182_zpsf62a6d52.jpg (http://s1100.photobucket.com/user/martinrpeachey/media/DSCF0182_zpsf62a6d52.jpg.html)

http://i1100.photobucket.com/albums/g413/martinrpeachey/DSCF0181_zps8806a1a5.jpg (http://s1100.photobucket.com/user/martinrpeachey/media/DSCF0181_zps8806a1a5.jpg.html)

Martin, looking at your pics above, are they metal sleeves resting on top of your wishbones? I am confused as when I offer up my bushes I got from Jamie to the wishbone, there is already a metal sleeve on the bush, and a metal sleeve in the wishbone hole as well. Have you cut out metal sleeves from your wishbones? I was following your 'how to' and there was no mention of it there.
I know the bushes have to be a tight fit, but I can't see how the bushes with a sleeve on will press in to a wishbone with a metal sleeve already in.
Thought this would be an easy job!!!

[M-R-P]

I only worked this out last night mate...
If the bush doesn't come with the outer sleeve (like the powerflex ones) then the metal sleeve in the wishbone has to stay put.
For bushes with the outer sleeve, feed a hacksaw blade through the old sleeve and cut through (without cutting the wishbone) then use a punch to fold the sleeve into itself. Took 10 minutes to do the pair :)
Clean the inside of the wishbone with sandpaper and the new bush will press in with the vice.

[M-R-P]

The polys have a lip that locks the bush in place. The OE ones don't, they rely on interference (being jammed in hard) the sleeve should be left in the wishbone.

Ignore the above lol ;)

[silverhorse]

For bushes with the outer sleeve, feed a hacksaw blade through the old sleeve and cut through (without cutting the wishbone) then use a punch to fold the sleeve into itself. Took 10 minutes to do the pair :)
Clean the inside of the wishbone with sandpaper and the new bush will press in with the vice.

Ahhh, that the bit in your how to. I thought that was just excess rubber that was stuck to the wishbone.
In a quandary now. I have some poly bushes here, but my bars are straight. JamesT5 has possibly got some indent bars, but hard to tell from his pics. Hmmmmm, what to do!!??

[M-R-P]

I can say 100% sure James' rods are fluted (narrow in the middle ;)) - without a doubt.

If you have the OE bushes still, just cut the sleeves out of the wishbones and fit the standard bushes, unless you can wait for the rods and polys to arrive?

[silverhorse]

I can say 100% sure James' rods are fluted (narrow in the middle ;)) - without a doubt.

Oooh, thats good! How can you tell? Anyway, if you are sure, I will bow to your superior expertise!! Will PM James and have them off him.


If you have the OE bushes still, just cut the sleeves out of the wishbones and fit the standard bushes, unless you can wait for the rods and polys to arrive?
Car is SORNED and I have been doing lots of jobs on her, so another week waiting won't hurt. I think I will have the Polys today and looking at your how to guide, it seems a fairly straight forward job:nutkick: Also, I don't fancy p1ssing about doing this on a regular basis, so Polys it is I think.

[silverhorse]

Poly bushes arrived just as I was typing my last post!!

[M-R-P]

Ahhh, that the bit in your how to. I thought that was just excess rubber that was stuck to the wishbone.
In a quandary now. I have some poly bushes here, but my bars are straight. JamesT5 has possibly got some indent bars, but hard to tell from his pics. Hmmmmm, what to do!!??

Actually, the bit in the How-to was the outer shell of the OE bush, which is press-fitted into the steel sleeve in the wishbone (getting complicated again...) I left the steel sleeve in as I was fitting a powerflex bush with no outer casing.

[M-R-P]

Poly bushes arrived just as I was typing my last post!!

Are they the purble ones with no outer steel sleeve?

[partsforvolvos.com]

I only worked this out last night mate...
If the bush doesn't come with the outer sleeve (like the powerflex ones) then the metal sleeve in the wishbone has to stay put.
For bushes with the outer sleeve, feed a hacksaw blade through the old sleeve and cut through (without cutting the wishbone) then use a punch to fold the sleeve into itself. Took 10 minutes to do the pair :)
Clean the inside of the wishbone with sandpaper and the new bush will press in with the vice.

correct- apparently this fitment is one of only a handful in the entire powerflex reange where the sleeve is left in - the rest it is always removed.

[M-R-P]

correct- apparently this fitment is one of only a handful in the entire powerflex reange where the sleeve is left in - the rest it is always removed.

They obviously decided it was the best/cheapest way to have this mod - I, and many others, will vouch for the fact it works - and works well.

The blue Swedish ones you supply, with the metal sleeves are actually quicker to fit than the powerflex ones. I don't know if there's a difference in ride quality bit they feel everso slightly harder than the Purple powerflex ones (dunno about the black series).

[partsforvolvos.com]

i've never compared them , but from speaking to them the powerflex black are rock solid - about 90% apparently.

not really recommended for road use

[M-R-P]

The standard ones make the ride harder and noisier but the improvement in feedback in the steering is worth it. I wouldn't entertain the idea of solid ones for road use - I like my fillings lol.

[silverhorse]

Are they the purble ones with no outer steel sleeve?
No, they are the PURPLE ones with no outer sleeve!!:biggrin:

[M-R-P]

lol. Get 'em fitted then :D

[silverhorse]

lol. Get 'em fitted then :D

Yep, just waiting for James. He has dipped off the radar today so hopefully will be about tonight and I can get the bars off him.

[M-R-P]

Grind your rods down ;)

[silverhorse]

Grind your rods down ;)

Yeah, was thinking of that. Can't be too hard, but if James has got the proper bars like you say he has, then I would rather get them. I do like grinding things though!!

[M-R-P]

You're far more patient than I, sir lol.

[JamesT5]

Yep, just waiting for James. He has dipped off the radar today so hopefully will be about tonight and I can get the bars off him.

It's ok, I've been at work. Paul, I'm sending you a PM and we'll do a deal on my rods! :B_thumb:

[JamesT5]

I only worked this out last night mate...
If the bush doesn't come with the outer sleeve (like the powerflex ones) then the metal sleeve in the wishbone has to stay put.
For bushes with the outer sleeve, feed a hacksaw blade through the old sleeve and cut through (without cutting the wishbone) then use a punch to fold the sleeve into itself. Took 10 minutes to do the pair :)
Clean the inside of the wishbone with sandpaper and the new bush will press in with the vice.

You can see why I was having problems fitting them and why I said the outher sleeve needed cutting out too (I had the right idea). I'm glad you've managed to finish what I started and Silverhorse has my old bars so happy days. :D :beer:

[M-R-P]

I can see why you struggled though James, those sleeves were tough little swines. I began trying to press them out but they expanded and lodged in tighter.

I had to heat the wishbone to get the bush in, not much as it's alloy - just warm. Went in relatively easy but one did stick, so I removed it and ran some emory paper round the inside and ground off the screwdriver damage ;)

Having the right tools is essential when attempting this sort of thing, makes life that much easier (and access to an engineering workshop lol)

[silverhorse]

Right.
Got the bars from JamesT5 today. Cheers for that mate. I did not burn off the rubber as I don't have a blow torch, so I mounted a drill in my vice and attached a wire wheel. I cut off most of the rubber with a stanley knife and then the wire wheel took the rest off in about 30 seconds.
Thank God that once they were cleaned up, they were the right ones with the indent. (well done Martin, you said they would be!!)
Anyway, pressed poly bushes on, no problems. Then tried to press them into the wishbones.....
What a f3ckin nightmare!!!
Will try again tomorrow. After 2 hours of cocking about, I gave up.
Following your 'how to' guide Martin, but I think I need a bigger G clamp.

[JamesT5]

Right.
Got the bars from JamesT5 today. Cheers for that mate. I did not burn off the rubber as I don't have a blow torch, so I mounted a drill in my vice and attached a wire wheel. I cut off most of the rubber with a stanley knife and then the wire wheel took the rest off in about 30 seconds.
Thank God that once they were cleaned up, they were the right ones with the indent. (well done Martin, you said they would be!!)
Anyway, pressed poly bushes on, no problems. Then tried to press them into the wishbones.....
What a f3ckin nightmare!!!
Will try again tomorrow. After 2 hours of cocking about, I gave up.
Following your 'how to' guide Martin, but I think I need a bigger G clamp.

Glad I was able to help you out and they were the correct bars, although I'm suprised the Royal Mail took that long to deliver a Second Class package. Just think though, that rubber was on my car one day as were the bars. :D

This Polybushing of wishbones does sould like a tit of a job to do which is why I won't be doing it myself, ever. I'll either buy pre-powerflexed wishbones, get a garage to to it, or just simply change them for standard rubber ones.

[M-R-P]

You'll need to force the G-clamp straight mate, it'll try to wander. Once you've got some pressure on it, part of the lip goes into the wishbone but the rest refuses to go and the bush twists. This is where you need to use a screwdriver push the rest of the lip in. It's pretty easy from there.

[silverhorse]

OK, finally got the Poly bushes done. OH MY GOD!! What a monumental pain in the ar3e that was.
Martin, I have absolutely no idea how you pressed yours in with a G clamp whilst the wishbone was still in situ. Respect is due for that!!
Anyway, I got the wishbones off, which was no probs apart from the bolts were VERY tight. (lots of plusgas). The balljoints just fell off in my hands, which was a rare piece of good fortune!
Then tried to press in with G clamps with wishbone in a vice. Nope!
Then went to a local HGV garage I know who let me use their 200 ton(!!!) press free of charge. They practically fell in!!
So back to car to refit wishbones. Another pain in the ar3e, but with some persuasion, they went in eventually.
Laser alignment to follow to be sure everything is as it should be.

When I started this job, I thought it would be reasonably straight forward..........:wallbash:
Next time (if there is a next time) I will swallow the extra expense and get bushed wishbones to make life a bit easier.
BTW, pleased with how car drives though. Feels tighter on poly's, only slightly more road noise, not much difference in ride, but lots more feel. Pleased!

So big thanks to Jamie at PFV, for the advice. JamesT5 for the selling me the bars and MRP for the guidance.

[V70 Graham]

I have a picture of my wishbones Martin did with the G clamps.....I don't however have a picture of him hanging on the vice !

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y183/graham1326/P1000942-1_zps395c905d.jpg (http://s5.photobucket.com/user/graham1326/media/P1000942-1_zps395c905d.jpg.html)

[JamesT5]

OK, finally got the Poly bushes done. OH MY GOD!! What a monumental pain in the ar3e that was.
Martin, I have absolutely no idea how you pressed yours in with a G clamp whilst the wishbone was still in situ. Respect is due for that!!
Anyway, I got the wishbones off, which was no probs apart from the bolts were VERY tight. (lots of plusgas). The balljoints just fell off in my hands, which was a rare piece of good fortune!
Then tried to press in with G clamps with wishbone in a vice. Nope!
Then went to a local HGV garage I know who let me use their 200 ton(!!!) press free of charge. They practically fell in!!
So back to car to refit wishbones. Another pain in the ar3e, but with some persuasion, they went in eventually.
Laser alignment to follow to be sure everything is as it should be.

When I started this job, I thought it would be reasonably straight forward..........:wallbash:
Next time (if there is a next time) I will swallow the extra expense and get bushed wishbones to make life a bit easier.
BTW, pleased with how car drives though. Feels tighter on poly's, only slightly more road noise, not much difference in ride, but lots more feel. Pleased!

So big thanks to Jamie at PFV, for the advice. JamesT5 for the selling me the bars and MRP for the guidance.

The wishbones do look like a real nightmare to do which is why I just sold them to MRP to have an refurbish. Glad you've sorted it though Paul, you shouldn't need to redo those again assuming you used the copper slip to lubricate the bushes.

[M-R-P]

OK, finally got the Poly bushes done. OH MY GOD!! What a monumental pain in the ar3e that was.
Martin, I have absolutely no idea how you pressed yours in with a G clamp whilst the wishbone was still in situ. Respect is due for that!!
Anyway, I got the wishbones off, which was no probs apart from the bolts were VERY tight. (lots of plusgas). The balljoints just fell off in my hands, which was a rare piece of good fortune!
Then tried to press in with G clamps with wishbone in a vice. Nope!
Then went to a local HGV garage I know who let me use their 200 ton(!!!) press free of charge. They practically fell in!!
So back to car to refit wishbones. Another pain in the ar3e, but with some persuasion, they went in eventually.
Laser alignment to follow to be sure everything is as it should be.

When I started this job, I thought it would be reasonably straight forward..........:wallbash:
Next time (if there is a next time) I will swallow the extra expense and get bushed wishbones to make life a bit easier.
BTW, pleased with how car drives though. Feels tighter on poly's, only slightly more road noise, not much difference in ride, but lots more feel. Pleased!

So big thanks to Jamie at PFV, for the advice. JamesT5 for the selling me the bars and MRP for the guidance.

Glad you're all sorted mate. I should have made it a bit clearer on my how-to that it takes a fair bit of grunt to get the polys in, mainly the turning of the G-clamp while holding everything steady. I spend a lot of time at work, swinging from spanners, fixing machines so it's not too bad for me (you can just about make-out the popeye forearm in Graham's pic) but it was still a fair bit of effort.

The P1 bushes were the other way round - getting the polys in is easy but getting the old bush out required some serious vice work (and a lot of bad language lol)

[T5RatherAmusin]

glad you got your sorted bud!!
done mine last week. my old bush was barely hangin on! much better now and handles like a dream!
i just wanna sexually abuse my car now :rotfl:
ive got 2 pairs of arms im polying up to flog on. already done one with the powerflex end, just waiting on more new bushes lol
http://i1036.photobucket.com/albums/a441/Ian_Armstrong/IMAG1333-1_zps3c1b2b09.jpg

[silverhorse]

Glad you've sorted it though Paul, you shouldn't need to redo those again assuming you used the copper slip to lubricate the bushes.

Yep. I used about a litre of the stuff!!

[silverhorse]

i just wanna sexually abuse my car now :rotfl:

Steady....!

http://i1036.photobucket.com/albums/a441/Ian_Armstrong/IMAG1333-1_zps3c1b2b09.jpg

Looks nice and shiny under there!