Day running lights - when it all goes wrong!

[pzorb]

OK there have been lots of posts about this before but none manage to answer the question! Here are the facts:

Most 850s BUT NOT ALL can have thier Day Running Lights (also known as dim-dip) disabled by turning a little screw:
[NB: click the thumbnails for a larger version]
http://www.pzorb.com/albums/Volvo/IMAGE_00029.thumb.jpg (http://www.pzorb.com/gallery/view_photo.php?set_albumName=Volvo&id=IMAGE_00029)
Even if you have the screw, it may well not do anything. On mine it simply alters the state of the *sidelights* not the main dip. It still stays on.
If you remove the switch, on the back it looks like this:
http://www.pzorb.com/albums/Volvo/IMAGE_00031.thumb.jpg (http://www.pzorb.com/gallery/view_photo.php?set_albumName=Volvo&id=IMAGE_00031)http://www.pzorb.com/albums/Volvo/IMAGE_00032.thumb.jpg (http://www.pzorb.com/gallery/view_photo.php?set_albumName=Volvo&id=IMAGE_00032)
That's a selector switch with options
A
C B
Anyone know what these do? I tried to move it but it was too stiff and risked snapping it.
Can someone who has their D.R.L switch working take it out to see what setting it's on - also compare the part number, mine is: (you can't make it out but it might look the same if you see my meaning - ££££ty camera phone! - click the thumb then click the medium size image to get a huge one)
http://www.pzorb.com/albums/Volvo/IMAGE_00030.thumb.jpg (http://www.pzorb.com/gallery/view_photo.php?set_albumName=Volvo&id=IMAGE_00030)
6849766
5?W17V

If the car is started with the switch completely removed, the lights are still on.
Pulling fuses 25 and 27 do not help, as suggested by some other 850 forums.

The Haynes wiring diagram refers to component 2-3, does anyone know where this actually lives on the car?

Can anyone with "that software" shed some light?

I *really* need your help guys, without getting this sorted I can't upgrade to HID lights.
Thanks a million.

[Vikingxl]

Mine is from a V70 with the grub screw and the day running lights off and looks like this if thats any help.Sorry about the quality of the piccys but camera phone again cos the camera is on charge.

[Vikingxl]

Looking at it the left hand dial thing seems to be in a different position.

[pzorb]

Thanks Viking, is it possible to remove that wiring connector from the unit?
It's what's underneath it and above it that I think might help...? <--clueless! :slap:

the left hand dial - where exactly? To clarify, those two little white circles on the back of the switch are bulbs (i think).

Cheers!

[Vikingxl]

Will try mate

[Vikingxl]

Right here you go dismantled it all hope it goes back together alright

[Vikingxl]

Another option would be to try the unit out of someone elses car.You are welcome to try mine but i wont be around for a few weeks so maybe someone else local can be of help here.If not give me a shout in a few weeks.

[pzorb]

Hmmn they look pretty similar don't they! :slap:
Thing is, even when the b*gger's not plugged in the lights stay on! There's a DIM/DIP relay *somewhere* according to Haynes but those wiring diagrams are a nightmare to follow!

?SIDAV tog enoyna

Cheers!

[Vikingxl]

Strange that without the unit in all my lights go off so it would seem your problem is elsewhere

[weasel]

wonder if that abc switch is for setting the lights to different markets?

[MattB]

wonder if that abc switch is for setting the lights to different markets?

As far as I have found, the ABC switch moves inline with the positions of the grub screw - I guess this is to determine what position or setting the screw is in. My light switch either allows headlights and day lights to be on together or off - not day lights only (+ headlights to be switched on as needed), as with my previous 850.

I have tried several other light switches to no avail and wonder if the wiring has been tampered with prior to me buying the car.

Incidentally, when I questioned the light operation when buying the car, I was told that the wiring is sometimes 'altered' to stop the day lights and headlights coming on with the ignition, as apposed to simply adjusting the grub screw position.

So - in short, I have learnt to live with the lights as they are and the frustration, but would be very interested to know of any outcome here....

[deerworrier]

sorry to be a dumb arse but what is the problem and why cant you change bulbs? i dont have a grub screw so does this mean i cant fit my new h1's?

my side lights are always on regardless of switch position, does this mean i am doomed to a winter of thinking is that a deer or a gorse bush?.......££££ its a deer

[T5Rdragon]

What's the proper method of getting that switch out? Fancy checking mine and seeing if I can help solve the mystery...

Must buy a Haynes soon.

[Andrew]

What's the proper method of getting that switch out? Fancy checking mine and seeing if I can help solve the mystery...

Must buy a Haynes soon.

Insert pen knife blade - pop it out.

[Andrew]

Insert pen knife blade - pop it out.

Oh and I forgot to give you the Haynes. Will send it on soon.

[Martinr]

Just a point of clarification. There seems to be some confusion between daytime running lights and dim dip headlights.

Dim dip was a requirement that was bought in in the early nineties on all new vehicles for the UK. It basically meant that it was not possible to put the sidelights on without the headlamps coming on as well, (an effort to stop those clowns who drive in the dark using two candles). With dim dip the headlights came on at a lower intensity, this was achieved using a resistance and that is what is controlled by the dim dip relay.

It was discontinued as a requirement sometime around 1996, I don't remember exact date as I had changed jobs by then (used to work in motor industry) nor do I know the reason why. Some research on the net should find this.

Day time running lamps are just as it says on the can.

I think that the problem arises where vehicles have dim dip and day runners, consequently you can't turn the headlamps off.

My 855 is a 96 and doesn't have dim dip, it has the grub screw and I have it set so that the lights on or off is controlled by the light switch, I.e if the light switch is in the headlamp position all lights come on and go off with the ignition, if in the off position nothing, if in the sidelamp position the marker lights are on whether the ignition is on or off.

[T5Rdragon]

OK, looking at the picture someone provided - there's a LOT of wires on the back of the switch (considering it's a 3 position rotary switch). I am going to run on an assumption that the switch itself is standard across the board (with the exception that soem have the screw and some dont (but presumably they all have the abc at the back) - this makes me think it should only be a matter of the wiring being different onto the switch.

Can someone who's 850 switch allows them to have NO lights on when the headlight switch is at position 0 please look at the wiring plug behind and let me know which terminals have wires and what colour they are and which are empty - there's 10 terminals back there - on the front, 1-3-5-9 and on the rear 2-4-6-8.

I'll report mine back on here when I go and have a look in a little bit - then we can see if there are differences in wire connections.

Cheers :)

[t5owner]

wonder if that abc switch is for setting the lights to different markets?

The A , B , C markings are the position the little grub screw is in when you turn it the marker moves to the letter for that setting

The Owners handbook for the S70 says the following

If light switch is at position 0 i:e OFF and the grub screw is vertical "I" the dipped headlights come on when you switch on ignition (UK Dim Dip Setting)

If the grub screw is at an angle to the right "/" this is auto dip setting even in parking light mode on the main switch which means your dim dip are on regardless of the master switch setting (only thing is your dash lights don`t come on)

If the grub screw is at an angle to the left "\" then all lights are off until you use the master switch

The parking light mode is the symbol of 2 lights back to back

Hope that clarifies it

Cheers

stuart

[T5Rdragon]

Right, been out and looked behind my switch, and here's MY wiring for a car which CANNOT switch off it's dipped headlights. All pins were read from left to right along their stamped numbers on the connector as you look at the relevant side.
FRONT SIDE:

Pin 1 - 2 wires - 1 red and 1 tan (I think it's tan - hard to tell in torchlight)
Pin 3 - Empty
Pin 5 - green/red
Pin 7 - blue/yellow (looped from pin 4)
Pin 9 - yellow (x2)

BACK SIDE:

Pin 10 - black
Pin 8 - black/white
Pin 6 - black/red (x2)
Pin 4 - blue/yellow (looped from pin 7)
Pin 2 - white (x2)

So there ya go - if someone who's switch on an 850 DOES switch off all lights when the headlight switch is in position 0, I'd be interested in getting a comparison :)

[pzorb]

Awesome work guys! Let's hope we can *finally* get this one sorted out!

Thanks go out to Stuart, you're spot on about the ACB switch being controlled by the screw, I've just pulled mine out and watched it move around. Shame it still does F.A.!

I was thinking the same T5Rdragon, that the switch has some internal differences that control this. But then you'd think that if you pull the switch entirely and then start the car that you'd fix the problem because the 'memory' of the light settings has been removed - however on mine the lights are still on. In my mind there's a hierarchy:

Me --> Dashboard light switch --> some relay --> lights.
(where lights are at the top of the chain. ie if the lights are bust, who cares what the relay says. If the relay's dud, doesnt matter what the switch does etc)

When the switch screw is at the completely off setting \, I think it's doing its job. I think that the problem lies elsewhere (think £££) ie with the relay. Regardless of what the switch is set to, the lights will at least be on because I think the relay's base level of operation is to have the lights on. My switch screw only affects the sidelight operations, which is what you'd expect if you subtracted the base operations from what we'd otherwise expect it to do. Follow my logic? I'm so alone on this, aren't I! lol

So where's this 2-3 relay in the haynes manual lurcking in the car? Some other volvo forum said it was behind the dash... :S

Martin's temporary fix (here's one I prepared earlier):
1. Steal some tinfoil off a housemate. Blame someone else.
2. Wrap the tinfoil around the dipped beam part of each headlight. Use either side of the foil.
3. If you need to flash someone (lights people, let's keep this clean), it will still work because you haven't covered up the main bulb.
4. Optionally draw some circles on the foil to achieve that cool Reflector look on your headlights without having to order some hugely pricey units from Sweden.
5. At night remove the foil before you drive off/drive everywhere with full beam on. No-one will mind, you're in a Volvo. Keep a pair of slippers at hand to swap in to in-case you get pulled by the cops.

There you go! See, what does VADIS know anyway :P

[t5owner]

Right, been out and looked behind my switch, and here's MY wiring for a car which CANNOT switch off it's dipped headlights. All pins were read from left to right along their stamped numbers on the connector as you look at the relevant side.
FRONT SIDE:

Pin 1 - 2 wires - 1 red and 1 tan (I think it's tan - hard to tell in torchlight)
Pin 3 - Empty
Pin 5 - green/red
Pin 7 - blue/yellow (looped from pin 4)
Pin 9 - yellow (x2)

BACK SIDE:

Pin 10 - black
Pin 8 - black/white
Pin 6 - black/red (x2)
Pin 4 - blue/yellow (looped from pin 7)
Pin 2 - white (x2)

So there ya go - if someone who's switch on an 850 DOES switch off all lights when the headlight switch is in position 0, I'd be interested in getting a comparison :)

I believe pins 4 and 7 are looped for power to the internal bulbs on the switch as its the same for my S70

I`ll have a looky at "that software" and see what i can find out

Cheers

[Andrew]

This is what I like to see. Everyone working together to solve a common problem.... I can feel the Ovlov :remybussi

:gossip: :beer: :smlove2: :Handshake :rolleyes:

[Liddo]

In a Leslie Grantham sort of way?? :shifty:

[chriskay]

O.K. my wiring is as follows
pin 1 pink
" 3 empty
" 5 red/green
" 7 2x blue/yellow (1 a link to 4)
" 9 2x yellow
" 2 2x white
" 4 blue/yellow (from 7)
" 6 red/black
" 8 white
" 10 black
so some differences there. I can turn the lights off with the screw in the \ position, but in the | position I have normal dipped beam, where the book says I should have dim-dip. In position / it's the same as |.
On the back of the switch I've got the two rotary slotted things, which seem reluctant to move & I'm not going to force them, but also a toggle switch labelled A B C which moves in synchronisation with the screw on the front.
Cheers, Chris.

[t5owner]

"On the back of the switch I've got the two rotary slotted things, which seem reluctant to move & I'm not going to force them"

Don`t even try man they are the bulb holders they pop out when prised upwards but do not attempt to turn them as if they are screws as you`ll knacker the holders

Cheers

stuart

[weasel]

main headlamp relay is position 3 on the central electrical unit.... alledgedly... i wouldn't have the faintest idea where to find the dim/dip regulator though... even on the haynes wiring diagram:-\

[T5Rdragon]

O.K. my wiring is as follows
pin 1 pink
" 3 empty
" 5 red/green
" 7 2x blue/yellow (1 a link to 4)
" 9 2x yellow
" 2 2x white
" 4 blue/yellow (from 7)
" 6 red/black
" 8 white
" 10 black
so some differences there. I can turn the lights off with the screw in the \ position, but in the | position I have normal dipped beam, where the book says I should have dim-dip. In position / it's the same as |.
On the back of the switch I've got the two rotary slotted things, which seem reluctant to move & I'm not going to force them, but also a toggle switch labelled A B C which moves in synchronisation with the screw on the front.
Cheers, Chris.
Thanks Chris!

A couple of options to try there - the first would be to remove my second wire from pin1 and see what happens. May have a bash at this on Saturday A.M.

[Andrew]

Gary ... 2 of your wires are for the boost gauge - colour coded red and black - you probably have a few of them. 1 of them goes into the pink as I wired it in to the switch - search for the boost gauge fitting thread.

[T5Rdragon]

Gary ... 2 of your wires are for the boost gauge - colour coded red and black - you probably have a few of them. 1 of them goes into the pink as I wired it in to the switch - search for the boost gauge fitting thread.
Ah yes, of course - will make note of that :)

[Vikingxl]

So after my two weeks away have we got anywhere yet?

[T5Rdragon]

Well my involvement is only 9 days old, but no - not yet - gonna have a butchers over the weekend :)

[pzorb]

Fixed!

http://www.vpcuk.org/forums/showthread.php?t=7424

[t5tart]

no grub screw on mine . no abc switch at the back dim dip always on