Video of Steering and Transmission based noises...

[JamesT5]

I was busy this morning, I decided to go out in the freezing cold to create a video of some noises and sounds from the steering and transmission on my T5. I like doing these videos because they say a million words in just a few minutes and it's also useful for anyone else who is finding the same noises on their car. The first part features some commentary by yours truely along with some interesting demonstrations, the second half really is just me revving the car up in gear and filming the noises from the outside of the car and underneath so you can have a listen from a different angle. It's almost as good as being there yourself!

Now, as always you'll have to forgive the lack of editing finesse with this video as it's really just a functional reference for people to look at. One thing I didn't mention in the video, is that on full lock I'm getting a 'knock, knock, knock' sound in both directions, but not whilst the front wheels are off the ground, only when the weight of the car is on the wheels. I suspect that's CV joints however the o/s driveshaft was only replaced in September 2012!!!

Upon searching for CV joints, I notice you can buy outer CV joints, but inner CV joints seem to be as rare as hens teeth and I don't know why. Maybe some of you can shed some light on that for me?

Anyway, the video...... :D :B_thumb:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IeZ9j3gJnE

Regards

James

[merc85]

Sounds like a Gearbox whine to me. :(

[JamesT5]

Sounds like a Gearbox whine to me. :(

Yes it does! And I did this with the wheels off the ground so I could listen to the noise off the road without trye and wind noise covering it up and it kind of confirms my original gearbox theory. There are 'extra' sounds that you hear when it's on the road so I think I could be looking at a replacement gearbox and possibly 1 or 2 new CV joints as well. Brilliant!

Ok, anything else that needs replacing before this car bankrupts me..... :D

[merc85]

have you checked to see if there is any oil in the gearbox?? Molyslip is really good at quieting down a noisy box ;)

[claymore]

Yous a braver man than me, no way I would have done that on axle stands no matter how secure they were.

[JamesT5]

Yous a braver man than me, no way I would have done that on axle stands no matter how secure they were.

yes that thought did cross my mind but it seemed an acceptable risk to save some time at a garage. Fortune favours the brave! :D

[JamesT5]

have you checked to see if there is any oil in the gearbox?? Molyslip is really good at quieting down a noisy box ;)

That will be the next step, I know stribo has posted advice on the subject already so I'll try some transmission fluid and go from there before condemning the gearbox.

[graemewelch]

you cant buy inner cvs but i can get a refurb shaft for £70 ish. im sure i gave you the link when you replaced the first shaft

[JamesT5]

you cant buy inner cvs but i can get a refurb shaft for £70 ish. im sure i gave you the link when you replaced the first shaft

Thanks, what link because I don't remember...?

[stevmo]

if you watch the wheels spinning when you turn full lock right the o/side front wheel practically stops meaning the CV joint is not doing its job.
The whine sounds very similar to the sound made by clarksons alfa in the top gear cheap alfas challenge

[stevmo]

did you replace the driveshaft yourself or was it a garage as checking with my old man what he recons has happened is that the intermediate shaft which needs careful removal from the transmission to prevent damage to the bearings was removed at a bad angle or the shaft was removed from the intermediate leaving the intermediate to strain the bearing on the transmission. This will intern have meant the shaft was being rotated at a bad angle and would have caused un-due wear on both the new shaft and the wheel bearing. So Likelihood is thats whats wrong

[JamesT5]

did you replace the driveshaft yourself or was it a garage as checking with my old man what he recons has happened is that the intermediate shaft which needs careful removal from the transmission to prevent damage to the bearings was removed at a bad angle or the shaft was removed from the intermediate leaving the intermediate to strain the bearing on the transmission. This will intern have meant the shaft was being rotated at a bad angle and would have caused un-due wear on both the new shaft and the wheel bearing. So Likelihood is thats whats wrong

Thanks for the advice here! The drivers side driveshaft was replaced by a garage not by myself and if I can prove the garage are at fault I could make a claim on their insurance to have the work fixed for free. Proving it would be very hard without an independent examination by at least 2 garages to verify your theory and for me to have enough evidence to go in there and make a claim.

The garage that fitted the part is the same garage that left one of my top nuts loose on the front struts when I had them changed about 6 weeks ago. The garage are a well established garage and a well respected one in the community so I've never had any doubts about their work quality until all these things have started to crop up. I won't be using them again unless it's a warranty job on the parts and labour but to be honest I'd take a cheque from them and go somewhere else, preferably a main stealer if it wasn't going to cost me anything.

I'll have a look at the video again, because the wheel I filmed from the side is the n/s front wheel but you said you noticed the o/s front wheel nearly stops?

Thanks again for the input. Is you 'old man' an experienced mechanic then I take it?

Regards

James

[Santa]

I think the steering whine is similar to what I had. Renewed the PAS fluid and it was fine afterwards.

[JamesT5]

if you watch the wheels spinning when you turn full lock right the o/side front wheel practically stops meaning the CV joint is not doing its job.
The whine sounds very similar to the sound made by clarksons alfa in the top gear cheap alfas challenge

I've looked at the video again and between 3:35 and 3:40 I can see exactly what you mean! The drivers side wheel virtually stops whilst the passengers side wheel continues to spin, this is something I didn't even notice so thank you again for the keen observation (to you and your Dad?). I'm going to look further in to this and see if I can prove the garage are at fault, that way I'll have more grounds to go down there and complain.

:beer:

[jardon]

Check the pas fluid level and possibly flush it. Sounds like a bearing to me but there are several possibilities. Don't buy a gearbox (or anything else) until somebody has checked it. You have been treated badly so far. Call MRG or Tim Williams - both have sorted things out when all looked very bad on my car. Was the os tyre fouling the floor in that video? 100 mph in your drive on a jack is taking significant risk - at the very least chock the rear wheels and have solid axle stands. Did you try the bearing "test" I mentioned?

[JamesT5]

Check the pas fluid level and possibly flush it. Sounds like a bearing to me but there are several possibilities. Don't buy a gearbox (or anything else) until somebody has checked it. You have been treated badly so far. Call MRG or Tim Williams - both have sorted things out when all looked very bad on my car. Was the os tyre fouling the floor in that video? 100 mph in your drive on a jack is taking significant risk - at the very least chock the rear wheels and have solid axle stands. Did you try the bearing "test" I mentioned?

The tyre was not touching the floor and I did make sure the car was secure before I drove at high speed, the car was sat solidly on 2 metal axle stands and I'd made several checks turning each wheel manually to ensure the wheels were not touching the ground or likely to do so (hence some low speed test first and a gradual increase of speed).

I have tried your bearing test but I wasn't able to obtain any noticeable difference on cornering, the main clunks come at full lock at low speed in both directions. As for the gearbox, I'm going to try getting the system oil changed first and see how it goes from there.

Regards

James

[jardon]

Fair enough - I couldn't see the stands in the video and thought it was just resting on the jack. The noise increases in pitch with wheel speed so the fault lies between or including the wheel bearing and diff. When it was up on the stands were you able to identify which side the whine was coming from?

[ShadeTek]

The nearside tyre looks very close to the ground and may even be touching the ground causing it to stop. This would also give you some extra noise. You also get in and out of the car which may weigh it down a bit too. It does sound a bit gearboxy though which is not good and has been suggested, check it has any oil in the box.

[stevmo]

I've looked at the video again and between 3:35 and 3:40 I can see exactly what you mean! The drivers side wheel virtually stops whilst the passengers side wheel continues to spin, this is something I didn't even notice so thank you again for the keen observation (to you and your Dad?). I'm going to look further in to this and see if I can prove the garage are at fault, that way I'll have more grounds to go down there and complain.

:beer:

no problem - all helps. My dads been working on cars for over 40 years. Was a qualified mechanic many moons ago but while technology advances the basics stay the same. Hope it does prove to be their fault but based on what I can see and hear in that video that is what I believe to be the case.

[JamesT5]

no problem - all helps. My dads been working on cars for over 40 years. Was a qualified mechanic many moons ago but while technology advances the basics stay the same. Hope it does prove to be their fault but based on what I can see and hear in that video that is what I believe to be the case.

The car is off to the Main Stealers (reluctantly), tomorrow (Wednesday 27th) to get the diagnostics done for the ABS/STC light issues but I'm also going to ask them to investigate why I'm geting ''clunk, clunkc, clunk' clunk' on full lock because it will match your theory about the CV joint. I'll also mention this transmission noise and see if they put 2 and 2 together. In the meantime I'm going back and forth to work praying nothing falls off it. :D

Thanks again for your help and I'll be posting the results up on the forum.

Regards

James

[claymore]

Cudos to you for sticking with it, I would have scrapped it a long time ago and just bought another one, but at some point soon you have to say enough is enough.

[JamesT5]

Cudos to you for sticking with it, I would have scrapped it a long time ago and just bought another one, but at some point soon you have to say enough is enough.

I know what you're saying Colin but this car just owes me too much now and I don't have the money to replace it. I doubt I've spent as much as MRP has spent on his ex-plod but I've been making the best out of this situation I'm in. This has to have been the most expensive car to maintain I've ever had but I've made so much progress with it (with a lot of help from people on here I have to admit and credit), and it's too late for me to be giving up with it now. I won't sell this car until it's put right because it would be a real waste otherwise.

[stevmo]

I know what you're saying Colin but this car just owes me too much now and I don't have the money to replace it. I doubt I've spent as much as MRP has spent on his ex-plod but I've been making the best out of this situation I'm in. This has to have been the most expensive car to maintain I've ever had but I've made so much progress with it (with a lot of help from people on here I have to admit and credit), and it's too late for me to be giving up with it now. I won't sell this car until it's put right because it would be a real waste otherwise.

If you find a car you like it doesnt matter what it costs, you just stick with it. Like me and my mondeo. Its old, worth sod all but I love it and dont care about the costs

[LeeT5]

if you watch the wheels spinning when you turn full lock right the o/side front wheel practically stops meaning the CV joint is not doing its job.


Nah, you lost me here? What exactly do you mean by this?

All that is proving is due to the fact James car does not have a diff lock, there is nothing but resistance in the CV to prevent the wheel from spinning. Clearly, when you turn the steering on full lock this will put quite a strain on any CV joint. Its full lock that causes a CV to suffer the most wear! So all i can see is when the steering is on full lock the resistance to rotate in the CV is greater than the straight line rotation and therefore, due to there being no diff lock, the wheel will naturally slow down or stop.

Sorry, but that video proves nothing other than what's already been said. Gearbox.

For clarification, the job of a CV (Constant Velocity joint) on a FWD car with NO Diff lock is to enable drive of a rotating shaft to be transmitted through a given angle. If i had held one wheel whilst James engaged a forward gear and accelerated then the other wheel would have continued to rotate.

I think i get what your meaning to say, but if the CV cage was that worn or indeed the bearings were shot then you would hear a clicking noise on full lock with the wheels on the ground driving in a circle.
To be honest, if you know they haven't been changed in 60k+ then its fair to say they are going to be worn anyway. So you may just aswell replace them.

[stevmo]

Nah, you lost me here? What exactly do you mean by this?

All that is proving is due to the fact James car does not have a diff lock, there is nothing but resistance in the CV to prevent the wheel from spinning. Clearly, when you turn the steering on full lock this will put quite a strain on any CV joint. Its full lock that causes a CV to suffer the most wear! So all i can see is when the steering is on full lock the resistance to rotate in the CV is greater than the straight line rotation and therefore, due to there being no diff lock, the wheel will naturally slow down or stop.

Sorry, but that video proves nothing other than what's already been said. Gearbox.

For clarification, the job of a CV (Constant Velocity joint) on a FWD car with NO Diff lock is to enable drive of a rotating shaft to be transmitted through a given angle. If i had held one wheel whilst James engaged a forward gear and accelerated then the other wheel would have continued to rotate.

I think i get what your meaning to say, but if the CV cage was that worn or indeed the bearings were shot then you would hear a clicking noise on full lock with the wheels on the ground driving in a circle.
To be honest, if you know they haven't been changed in 60k+ then its fair to say they are going to be worn anyway. So you may just aswell replace them.

A open diff such as this sends drive to wherever has the least resistance but as you will notice it only prevents rotation when turned in one direction but the n/side wheel does not slow/stop at all in either direction and as the wheels are clear of the ground then the only resistance to rotation will be the CV joint however the CV joint is supposed to allow the transfer of power to the hub, not prevent.