Suspension Knocks are back...

[JamesT5]

I think my T5 is jinxed! I've had all these new parts fitted and the damn suspension knocks are back, this is really §§§§ing me off....

I wonder if the garage didn't torque up one of the top nuts on the strut properly because on the drivers side, that rubber/plastic cover that is over the top of the top nut seems loose and I can spin it around a bit and when I turn the wheel full lock the rubber/plastic cover doesn't move as much. However, the passenger side one is a lot more solid and moves less when I bounce the front of the car up and down. Given the knock appears to be coming from the drivers side just under the window, I think the bolt wasn't tightened properly when the garage fitted it.

I drove home from work this morning, went over a bump in the car park and there was a loud knock, plus when I go full lock both left and right there is often an irregular knocking like I had before the struts and the bearings were done.

Sorry, I've had a bit of a rant here too but I've spent £1200 on these new suspension bits only to find I've still got some irritating issues. :wallbash: :rant: Thanks in advance for any advice.

Regards

James

[stribo]

I'd take it back to the garage that did it and raise your concerns, as you say you've spent a lot of money on it, so you want it right.

[JamesT5]

I'd take it back to the garage that did it and raise your concerns, as you say you've spent a lot of money on it, so you want it right.

Well I haven't paid the bill yet so maybe I can use that as leverage. :D A suspension with so many new components should not be knocking like that. For crying out loud, the only bits left to change are the anti-roll bushes and then stuff like wheel bearings, everything else has been changed in the last 6 months. There's nothing left to change!

[graemewelch]

the steering racks are prone to wear. inner track rods could be worn to

[V70 Graham]

It doesn't cost anything to go to a different garage or even a main stealer and have someone go out with you to have a listen, could be worth a try mate.

[silverhorse]

Bl00dy hell James. 1 step forward, 2 steps back:(
With all the stuff that you have done, it can only be something silly like bolts not torqued properly. Can't it???!!
Keep plugging away mate

[JamesT5]

Bl00dy hell James. 1 step forward, 2 steps back:(
With all the stuff that you have done, it can only be something silly like bolts not torqued properly. Can't it???!!
Keep plugging away mate

If the car didn't owe me so much, I'd have sold it ages ago and brought a different one! It's very frustrating and I've got other things that have to be done as well before the MOT in March including fixing the ABS/STC warning light issue, and I need to get the anti-sway bar bushes done on the front as there is a rattle coming from there.

Right, where's the nearest brick wall............ :D ...oh hang on......:wallbash:

[LeeT5]

the steering racks are prone to wear. inner track rods could be worn to

Inner track rods wear is very minimal. Its the outers that wear more. However, it doesn't hurt to replace them both. I did and the difference was definitely noticeable.

As said, go back to the garage and use the suspect loose nut as a bargaining tool to get a reduction in price. They should never have given the car to you without first road testing, especially where brakes and steering are concerned. Safety first!!

[JamesT5]

Inner track rods wear is very minimal. Its the outers that wear more. However, it doesn't hurt to replace them both. I did and the difference was definitely noticeable.

As said, go back to the garage and use the suspect loose nut as a bargaining tool to get a reduction in price. They should never have given the car to you without first road testing, especially where brakes and steering are concerned. Safety first!!

Thanks for the advice as always. You will recall I replaced the outer tie-rods with Delphi ones around 6 months ago so I doubt they're at fault. If they are, then they'll be covered by the warranty and at least outer tie rods are one of the easier parts to change.

[partsforvolvos.com]

Inner track rods wear is very minimal. Its the outers that wear more. However, it doesn't hurt to replace them both. I did and the difference was definitely noticeable.

As said, go back to the garage and use the suspect loose nut as a bargaining tool to get a reduction in price. They should never have given the car to you without first road testing, especially where brakes and steering are concerned. Safety first!!

the inners are a common wear part on volvos . - we sell loads.

[JamesT5]

the inners are a common wear part on volvos . - we sell loads.

The problem happens more when I am turning a sharp right and over uneven or bumpy surfaces.

By the way, I've been out with the camcorder today and done some clips showing how I found 2 loose nuts, but neither were the strut to hub bolts. I'll post the video later on today (all being well).

Regards

James

[JamesT5]

Ok, so I've made a video of today session investigating the loose bits. Again, excuse the lack of finesse with the editing but I've tried to make it as interesting as possible..... :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28UoNZE-A0A&feature=youtu.be

[M-R-P]

Loved the Vid mate :D

OK...

The ball-joint on the track-rod has a tapered shaft which can be awkward to tighten first time but the garage should know that and made sure.

The brakes seemed ok from where I was, probably some crap between the disk and pad - it's been wet and snowy so it's pretty likely. If it was bound - on, you wouldn't be able to move the disk and it would be funny colours.

The strut - top nut... WTF? that shouldn't have been missed mate but if it reassures you any, it's a sort of lock nut, there's another beneath it.

In all, not top work by your garage mate and fair play to you for finding and fixing the problem. (although you'll need more than a pair of water pump pliers to tighten that strut nut properly)

[V70 Graham]

As you know I'm not that mechanically minded so can't help with your problems, but I did enjoy the video, and as Martin says well done for finding the faults.

[JamesT5]

Loved the Vid mate :D

OK...

The ball-joint on the track-rod has a tapered shaft which can be awkward to tighten first time but the garage should know that and made sure.

The brakes seemed ok from where I was, probably some crap between the disk and pad - it's been wet and snowy so it's pretty likely. If it was bound - on, you wouldn't be able to move the disk and it would be funny colours.

The strut - top nut... WTF? that shouldn't have been missed mate but if it reassures you any, it's a sort of lock nut, there's another beneath it.

In all, not top work by your garage mate and fair play to you for finding and fixing the problem. (although you'll need more than a pair of water pump pliers to tighten that strut nut properly)

Yeah, well the nut on the strut was very loose, it took no effort with the pliers to turn it. I had to use the pliers because the biggest spanner I had was a 19mm spanner, but it looks like the garage had the biggest spanner and I'm not talking about the one in their tool box! :D

I'll keep and eye on it and go down and complain when I pay the bill. I also still need to work out why the knocks are still happening and the steering still feels off so I might as well get the inner tie-rods changed. Then I've got to keep an eye on the bearings, try and change the ARB bushes but also get these stupid STC and ABS lights to stop coming on. They are an MOT fail.

Interestingly the lights don't come on until I'm doing more than 10mph or I loose traction, which tells me the problem is almost certainly 1 or more sensors. Looking at the way the sensor is plugged in to the hub, it looks virtually moulded in so I'll have to do some research on how to change these once I've got it diagnosed.

Both money and time are running thin now so I may have to prioritise!

[silverhorse]

Ha, good vid mate!!
Firstly, were my eyes deceiving me or were you resting the car on one of your alloys? I hope not or that will be your next problem, a cracked or bent wheel:worried:
Secondly, mate, THAT GARAGE!!!! As Martin said,:wtf: Are they hoping for lots of repeat business from you by making your car a death trap so you take it back? And this is only the stuff you can see.
Your brake disc looked a bit mucky and it will have a slight coating of rust if you have not moved for a while, so ever so slight rubbing is nothing to worry about.
And lastly, your ABS lights. You need to get plugged in and this will identify which sensor is kaput. If you try to test each one you will be there all day. I'm sure you know this so sorry to tell you to suck eggs. But at least when you know whats wrong, it takes some of the stress away (sometimes!!).
Keep hanging in there mate, and stay away from that garage:scared:

[LeeT5]

Well done for finding the cause of your knocking noise, that would have been due to the top nut being loose and really, this nut should only be used once. It might pay you to get two new nuts from the dealer and re-torque yourself!

As MRP and SILVERHORSE have said, your brake pads are fine mate. With surface corrosion you will get a slight scraping noise when turning the disc. Believe it or not, the pad will only be pulled back by the calipers rubber seal by about a couple of thousands of an inch so it will always look like its touching to the naked eye. If it were binding then with the wheel on the car it would be very, very hard to turn.

In the first part of the video you were not sure if the track rod end was meant to twist...it is! If it were seized solid the it would massively affect your steering and the car would always pull to one side badly.

I assume you showed the garage the video off your phone just so they could see how loose they were before you tightened them? I assume they have been correctly torqued up now?

And lastly....find yourself another garage mate cos both those nuts should never have been loose! If a garage can't get basics right then they should not be in business. Granted, i bet you had the tea boy work on your car and his work was not quality controlled! Big mistake as potentially it will be loose wheels nuts next and then a serious RTA.

One reason why i'm very particular about who works on my car and i'f i don't know them, i watch them like a hawk!!

[stribo]

Good vid, glad you found the cause of (most of) your problems. Don't ever use that garage again, and make sure you get a sizeable discount.

[partsforvolvos.com]

success . well done for the through inspection

[JamesT5]

Thanks for all the comments following the video.

I can't remember whether the nuts were supplied with the strut kit, if so they were brand new nuts. PFV can maybe help me with that one...?

I can't show the garage the video off my phone because my phone is ancient and doesn't even have a camera on it. I can however take the HD camcorder to the garage and show them the video footage. Somehow I doubt they'll discount my bill but I'll see if I can tactfully negotiate some sort of discount.

As for the ABS/STC lights, today I made an interesting discovery..... The lights have come on every single day without fail since the day before I had the kit fitted (not the garage's fault this time!). This morning however, I drove 32 miles to work and guees what...? No lights! Tonight driving home, the lights came on straight away and the difference was that this morning the road was bone dry, but tonight there was heavy rain!

That's got me thinking, the problem could be water or moisture getting in to 1 or more of the sensors. I need Vida or a garage with it but Main Stealers will just create a mountain out of a mole hill and charge the earth, I might see if I can get a copy and the hardware to go with it.

Thanks again to everyone for their help and assistance, I'll keep you all updated.

Regards

James

[silverhorse]

I need Vida or a garage with it but Main Stealers will just create a mountain out of a mole hill and charge the earth, I might see if I can get a copy and the hardware to go with it.

I would get in contact with your local dealer (I know, I know!!) and ask how much it will set you back to have codes read and nothing else. For 10 minutes work you will get fleeced, but it would be a lot quicker and easier than getting your own ViDA/DiCE and having a go yourself (still recommend getting it though).
Get them to give you the printout and then you can start from there.
Speak to the Volvo techs and they will probably tell you exactly what the problem is by deciphering the codes, and advise you of the bits you need.
That way you have a bit of paper with the problem, a bit of knowledge from the techs and hopefully a way forward.

Although I would not take my car to a stealer for any work, I did buy some touch up paint from them and then managed to get a half hour chat with a tech chappy. Very useful.

[silverhorse]

As for the ABS/STC lights, today I made an interesting discovery..... The lights have come on every single day without fail since the day before I had the kit fitted (not the garage's fault this time!). This morning however, I drove 32 miles to work and guees what...? No lights! Tonight driving home, the lights came on straight away and the difference was that this morning the road was bone dry, but tonight there was heavy rain!

Probably not moisture in a sensor James. I suspect that in the wet the wheels spin slightly, no matter how careful you are. And it is this spinning of wheels that your system does not like. If you lit up the fronts in the dry you would probably get a light.
If I remember, this all started for you when we had the snow and we were all wheel spinning madly. My dash lit up like a Christmas Tree, but luckily I rest it with my ViDA and am now OK.

[JamesT5]

Probably not moisture in a sensor James. I suspect that in the wet the wheels spin slightly, no matter how careful you are. And it is this spinning of wheels that your system does not like. If you lit up the fronts in the dry you would probably get a light.
If I remember, this all started for you when we had the snow and we were all wheel spinning madly. My dash lit up like a Christmas Tree, but luckily I rest it with my ViDA and am now OK.

Ok, I may have to bite the bullet and take to a Main Stealer at least on this occassion. I won't be using the nearest one because the last time I went there I had a slanging match with the Service Manager after I disputed the bill. Hopefully though, Volvo Stealerships have a fixed price for diagnostics so I'll phone up my next nearest branch and ask them to book me in.

As you say, it's a tricky one because I could actually end up spending more on bits I don't need than taking it to a main Stealers for them to tell me exactly what the problem is, and as you correctly pointed out I'll also get some advice from the technicians (hopefully a bit more polite at the next garage).

Regards

James

[JamesT5]

Ha, good vid mate!!
Firstly, were my eyes deceiving me or were you resting the car on one of your alloys? I hope not or that will be your next problem, a cracked or bent wheel:worried:

Forgot to answer this point yesterday... No, the alloy was placed under the subframe as a safety precaution in case my scissor jack gave way. If you'd seen how precarious the car was sitting on the jack then you'd see why I did it. :D

There was a small gap between the alloy and the subframe, so don't worry I haven't been using my alloy as a resting block.

[JamesT5]

By the way, the knocking sounds were really loud tonight and it happens when I turn the wheel to full or near full lock both left and right. The drivers side driveshaft was replaced in September but the passenger side one wasn't (that Garage again - should have done both sides!). I'm thinking whether one of my CV joints may be on the way out as I didn't see much movement with the inner tie-rods when I did my inspection the other day.

I think I need to get a garage to look at this next week so I'll take it down to my local ATS Euromaster as they're generally quite helpful down there.

I bet my T5 would win the prize for the most problematic V70 ever, I bet non of you have known a car with so many suspension and steering issues in your whole life. I know I haven't (until now)! :D

[stevmo]

I can top that with my Y reg mk3 mondeo TDDI with 148k when I got it:
Front:
wishbones
drop links
track rods
track rod ends
struts
coils
strut top mounts and bearings
driveshafts
subframe bushes
arb bushes
wheel bearings (2 recon hubs)

Rear - never did any of this before I got fed up and sold it but it needed:
drop links
struts
coils
arb bushes
top mounts and bearings
wheel bearings

Oh and not to mention I did the brakes all round including master cylinder, various pipes and sensors for the engine, various relays and electrical connectors inside the car and it still wouldnt do over 38mpg on a steady cruise with decat, EGR bypass, IM de-gunge and new gaskets, pipercross filter etc - I can do better than that in both my modified mondeo V6 and my S60 2.0T
Not to mention it was bloody slow and sounded like a tractor but I do have a good pic of it - 3 naked girls posing by it ;) atleast I sold it for £400 profit on purchase price although prob spent more than that on parts. Not that I hate that car at all........

[JamesT5]

I can top that with my Y reg mk3 mondeo TDDI with 148k when I got it:
Front:
wishbones
drop links
track rods
track rod ends
struts
coils
strut top mounts and bearings
driveshafts
subframe bushes
arb bushes
wheel bearings (2 recon hubs)

Rear - never did any of this before I got fed up and sold it but it needed:
drop links
struts
coils
arb bushes
top mounts and bearings
wheel bearings

Oh and not to mention I did the brakes all round including master cylinder, various pipes and sensors for the engine, various relays and electrical connectors inside the car and it still wouldnt do over 38mpg on a steady cruise with decat, EGR bypass, IM de-gunge and new gaskets, pipercross filter etc - I can do better than that in both my modified mondeo V6 and my S60 2.0T
Not to mention it was bloody slow and sounded like a tractor but I do have a good pic of it - 3 naked girls posing by it ;) atleast I sold it for £400 profit on purchase price although prob spent more than that on parts. Not that I hate that car at all........

Well I'm not a million miles behind you with all the bits I've replaced. I don't think there is a single major component other that wheel bearings that I haven't changed on my suspension. It should be driving like a brand new car by now but there we go! :D

[JamesT5]

I would get in contact with your local dealer (I know, I know!!) and ask how much it will set you back to have codes read and nothing else. For 10 minutes work you will get fleeced, but it would be a lot quicker and easier than getting your own ViDA/DiCE and having a go yourself (still recommend getting it though).
Get them to give you the printout and then you can start from there.
Speak to the Volvo techs and they will probably tell you exactly what the problem is by deciphering the codes, and advise you of the bits you need.
That way you have a bit of paper with the problem, a bit of knowledge from the techs and hopefully a way forward.

Although I would not take my car to a stealer for any work, I did buy some touch up paint from them and then managed to get a half hour chat with a tech chappy. Very useful.

My 2nd nearest dealership has booked me for the 27th February (that's the earliest date they had!), it's £45.50 including VAT and I was told that if it's just a reset that needs doing then there is no extra charge. I'll ask for a print out and go from there but £45.50 for a main dealer diagnostic doesn't seem too bad although I agree it's still a lot of money to spend to have your car plugged in to a computer. Peace of mind all the same.........

[silverhorse]

My 2nd nearest dealership has booked me for the 27th February (that's the earliest date they had!), it's £45.50 including VAT and I was told that if it's just a reset that needs doing then there is no extra charge. I'll ask for a print out and go from there but £45.50 for a main dealer diagnostic doesn't seem too bad although I agree it's still a lot of money to spend to have your car plugged in to a computer. Peace of mind all the same.........

Good luck with it James. Just hope nothing else goes wrong before then!!
Yeah, 45 quid. Could be worse I suppose, but for what it is (5 min job) it's eye watering!

But then again, the ViDa that they use has an annual subscription of about 10 grand................ and they have probably got multiple systems
Make sure you have a chat with a tech (for free!)

[JamesT5]

10 grand annual subscription! So Volvo charge the Main Stealers for using Volvo software? That's just silly......