Winter Tyres?

[silverhorse]

Here in Norfolk we have had a mad week with snow and ice so am thinking of getting winter tyres for next winter. 18 inch pirelli p zeros are officially §§§§e in snow. I had to be pushed by school kids 3 times. Embarrassing!!
Obviously I don't want to fork out for 18 inch winters, so will buy 15 or 16's and put them on some steel rims.
Will the car throw a wobbler if I fit smaller wheels? It seems to throw a wobbler if I do anything else!

[Harvey]

You will have 235-40-18 on now you would need 235-45-17 if 17" rims ,235-50-16 if 16" rims if they will clear the brakes.
The car will read correct speed as well if you fit these size tyres.

[silverhorse]

You will have 235-40-18 on now you would need 235-45-17 if 17" rims ,235-50-16 if 16" rims if they will clear the brakes.
The car will read correct speed as well if you fit these size tyres.
So, what you are saying is if I reduce the size of the rim, I need to increase the profile of the tyre to compensate. This way I will have the same rolling circumference?
If not I will get an error message??

[M-R-P]

You won't get a message or a light, as all the wheels will be turning at the same speed. the speedo may overread tho.

[Redbrick]

You need a narrower winter tyre. I run 235/40 18 on Nebulas in the summer and 205/55 16 on ex-Police Metis.

Use this to work out speedo differences:

http://www.miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html

[graemewelch]

im running 225 45 17. about 5" 0f snow on ungrit street thats on a incline. never been stuck once

[silverhorse]

im running 225 45 17. about 5" 0f snow on ungrit street thats on a incline. never been stuck once
I was getting stuck on the tiniest incline. It was embarrassing. People were saying 'here comes a chap in his Volvo, he will have no problem. They are built in Sweden' I then sat like a tw4t as the school kids were laughing:redface:

[Harvey]

So, what you are saying is if I reduce the size of the rim, I need to increase the profile of the tyre to compensate. This way I will have the same rolling circumference?
If not I will get an error message??

Yes you got it,so long as all 4 tyres are the same size the car won't care less,it's best to stick to the size that volvo say for the car if you fit 17" rims use what they say ,or the insurance might have something to say if you have a bump.
Also some insurance company's still need to be told if you fit winter tyres most don't charge for this ,they just like to know. See link below.

http://www.abi.org.uk/Information/Consumers/General/64525.doc

[JamesT5]

Ok, there's a catch with these, they are remoulds and H rated so not everyones cup of tea, but for those of us with the 172 Amaltheas or other rims on a budget, I've found these 225 45 R17 winter tyres at £49.50 per tyre including delivery! You'd have to them get a garage to fit and balance them for you but that's still a massive saving on the circa £140 price tag from a national tyre chain...

http://ssl.delti.com/cgi-bin/rshop.pl?dsco=110&Cookie=froogle&details=Ordern&typ=R-203705&ranzahl=4&nichtweiter=1&pk_campaign=froogle

Regards

James

[LiamT4]

Ok, there's a catch with these, they are remoulds and H rated so not everyones cup of tea, but for those of us with the 172 Amaltheas or other rims on a budget, I've found these 225 45 R17 winter tyres at £49.50 per tyre including delivery! You'd have to them get a garage to fit and balance them for you but that's still a massive saving on the circa £140 price tag from a national tyre chain...

http://ssl.delti.com/cgi-bin/rshop.pl?dsco=110&Cookie=froogle&details=Ordern&typ=R-203705&ranzahl=4&nichtweiter=1&pk_campaign=froogle

Regards

James

Not sure if it applies to winter tyres, but when fitting normal tyres to your car you need to have tyres with the a speed rating to match your car, otherwise it can invalidate you insurance. H is not high enough for our cars.

[The White Knight]

What car/wheels are you running?

[silverhorse]

Not sure if it applies to winter tyres, but when fitting normal tyres to your car you need to have tyres with the a speed rating to match your car, otherwise it can invalidate you insurance. H is not high enough for our cars.
Think you are right there. Sure I have heard that before

[LeeT5]

I couldnt handle having winter tyres on my car for 3 months on steel rims! So i bought 4 x 18" Pegasus rims off eBay for about £400 and stuck a set of 18" Vredestein Wintrac Extremes. I put them on around early November and they stay on until the blue bells pop up!
People assume that winter tyres are only for when it snows but there not. They should be used when the temperature drops below 7 degress celcius. This is the temperature at which a normal summer tyres massively under performs and will hugely increase your stopping distance, even on a dry road. Its because of the make up of the rubber compound. A winter tyre is made of a different compound and still deforms at low temperatures, unlike summer tyres that become very hard. A hard tyre compound cannot deform and mould to the road surface, therefore, the result is a dramatic loss of traction.
Last year i never got stuck in the snow once. They really are brilliant!!
As far as the speed rating goes, all winter tyres have a lessor speed rating due to the compound. I believe the MAX speed on my winters is 110mph, but lets be honest....why would i want to do anything close to that in such crap weather?
I highly recommend winter tyres for the UK for obvious reasons. For anyone that has not used them before...the difference is night and day. A decent winter tyre can almost halve your stopping distance. Safety wise, i would never run summer tyres in the winter again.

My Wintrac extremes are 235/40R18. not sure what the speed rating is but i do not think you can get a winter tyre that is speed rated to 155+ mph for obvious reasons.

[LiamT4]

Some people must push there cars closer to the limit than me in the winter, as my tyres feel no difference in the dry, winter or summer. They feel different in the wet but thats the same in the summer.

[graemewelch]

winter tyres are best thing i ever bought. 6" of snow 2wd and still havnt been stuck yet. wouldnt like to try summer tyres wear i live

[silverhorse]

Definitely going to get some for next winter. won't be shelling out for 18 inchers though! Will look like a plonker on 16 steelies for a few months and save some pennies.

[The White Knight]

I had 15" steels with winter tyres on my s60, worked well.

I will be selling these if you're interested as they don't clear the calipers on my v70r.....

[silverhorse]

I had 15" steels with winter tyres on my s60, worked well.

I will be selling these if you're interested as they don't clear the calipers on my v70r.....
I need to check the size of the discs on my car. I have a feeling 15 inchers might be a bit tight.

[JimmyBurnWorld]

I was getting stuck on the tiniest incline. It was embarrassing. People were saying 'here comes a chap in his Volvo, he will have no problem. They are built in Sweden' I then sat like a tw4t as the school kids were laughing:redface:

What is with these cars! My V70 has Eagle F1 Asymetric 2's with a reasonable ammount of tread left and doesn't seem to have any traction in snow/ slush. I'm guessing that it's mainly the fact that to make the car look and handle more like the German marques they put these 225 width tyres on them. Either way, embarrassing.

I can never justify shelling out for a second set of wheels & tyres just for the 3 days a year of chaos we get though:

3 days/ year
Additional 1hr each way added to commute for wheelspinning = 2 hrs
2 x 3 = 6hrs/ year inconvienience.

Set of wheels = £100
Set of half decent winter tyres = £500

£600/ 6hrs = £100/hr - If only my time was worth that kind of money!

(PS: I know you can't put a price on safety for when the winter tyres stop you short of the precipice or truck you're skidding towards!)

[LeeT5]

I need to check the size of the discs on my car. I have a feeling 15 inchers might be a bit tight.

If you have a V70R/S60R i dont think you can go smaller than 17" because of caliper clearance.

The V70R/S60R discs are 330mm front AND rear.

[LeeT5]

What is with these cars! My V70 has Eagle F1 Asymetric 2's with a reasonable ammount of tread left and doesn't seem to have any traction in snow/ slush. I'm guessing that it's mainly the fact that to make the car look and handle more like the German marques they put these 225 width tyres on them. Either way, embarrassing.

I can never justify shelling out for a second set of wheels & tyres just for the 3 days a year of chaos we get though:

3 days/ year
Additional 1hr each way added to commute for wheelspinning = 2 hrs
2 x 3 = 6hrs/ year inconvienience.

Set of wheels = £100
Set of half decent winter tyres = £500

£600/ 6hrs = £100/hr - If only my time was worth that kind of money!

(PS: I know you can't put a price on safety for when the winter tyres stop you short of the precipice or truck you're skidding towards!)

you obviously didn't read my thread properly..#13.

Winter tyres are not just for the 3 days of snow, they are for the duration of the winter period when temperatures are at or below 7 degrees C. Therefore shelling out on winter tyres and a spare set of wheels is more than justified in my eyes. :)

[The White Knight]

I agree Lee. There are also some bargains to be had on ebay, sets of alloys with winter tyres on them

[silverhorse]

If you have a V70R/S60R i dont think you can go smaller than 17" because of caliper clearance.

The V70R/S60R discs are 330mm front AND rear.
2005 V70 T5. Will be replacing brakes soon so will be measuring them then.

[jardon]

Have a look at the Kumhos on Camskill.

I have Wintrac Xtremes on my 17" amaltheas - I should get a 4th winter out of them and that's driving like I stole it so they appear to wear quite well. They are awesome as a wet/cold/loose surface tyre but at a price - they embarrass my summer tyres at this time of year.

[MA'R'K]

Winter tyres make you pitty everyone else on the road sliding around, they are awesome and also good fun in the snow! Though one idiot flashed me the other day when I passed him crawling at 5mph....why should I have to wait for some bozzo who can't sort his car out ;)

[p fandango]

What is with these cars! My V70 has Eagle F1 Asymetric 2's with a reasonable ammount of tread left and doesn't seem to have any traction in snow/ slush. I'm guessing that it's mainly the fact that to make the car look and handle more like the German marques they put these 225 width tyres on them. Either way, embarrassing
my S60's no where near as good as my 850 in the snow

[stevmo]

best fun is using work van in snow - lwb sprinters. rwd and tyres designed for better fuel consumption (doesnt work cos we rag em :P) and as a delivery driver have to go down all the crappy un gritted roads and slide about. still fun when I don't get stuck in it though and embaress other drivers :D
I've never fitted winter tyres to my cars and not once have I had an issue. Driven in snow and ice in Rover 214, escort 1.8, mondeo 1.8, rover 416 (my ex's), subaru legacy (dads and to be fair thats awd) and now my S60 2.0T

All been on different tyres. My Volvo is on Cooper tyres on the standard 17's and I've had no wheel spin, no sliding and no problems stopping. Just down to driving according to the conditions and no I don't drive everywhere at 2mph. Course I did have help in that my dad used to Rally so have some rally driving techniques. Did used to prat about in my rover and escort - used to basically go everywhere sideways in them which is funny as hell going past a slithering brandnew range rover in a 13 year old rover 1.4 going sideways ;)

[JimmyBurnWorld]

you obviously didn't read my thread properly..#13.

Winter tyres are not just for the 3 days of snow, they are for the duration of the winter period when temperatures are at or below 7 degrees C. Therefore shelling out on winter tyres and a spare set of wheels is more than justified in my eyes. :)

Lee, I do read threads very thoroughly...Obviously. (used with the same justification as quote above). Not only that but given the mileage I do I have done extensive research into winter tyres. What I have gleaned from this research is that you're two lines are a copy and paste from any Tyre Shop's marketing website.

Anyway without descending into a forum spat. If you look at weather paterns over the last few years, for all the daily Mail/ Express doom mongering, we only have temperatures consistently below 7deg C for a couple of weeks a year. Is it not true that above 7deg that Winter tyre's softer compound wears significantly quicker? Therefore it's a lot of money to spend for a few weeks. Are winter tyres justified or just the media darling of the moment?

The main point I was making was that for a Swedish built car, the V70 apears to have comparativly poor traction in wintery conditions compared to other cars I have driven in similar and worse conditions, including Vauxhall Carltons and Omegas I was wondering if other people had found the same. Given how solid and safe the big Volvos feel most of the time, it's a little disappointing when you feel nervous coming down a hill or break traction on a hill.

While I appreciate my original post may have been a bit flippant, it was just intended as a bit of banter given that I'd had a poor experience with a car I love. I will keep my posts in the future to "Anyone else think that P2's have crap traction in the snow?" and forget the banter/ discussion element.

I dunno, what next, replies on a thread telling you to just Google for information rather bothering the forum with questions........Lee?

[graemewelch]

i find my s60 is exelent in snow. 6"plus ans going up hill on untreated roads isnt a problem. even if i stop half way up. but im running x4 winter tyres.

[The White Knight]

Winter tyres make you pitty everyone else on the road sliding around, they are awesome and also good fun in the snow! Though one idiot flashed me the other day when I passed him crawling at 5mph....why should I have to wait for some bozzo who can't sort his car out ;)

Haha that's the spirit!

[jimka]

Lee, I do read threads very thoroughly...Obviously. (used with the same justification as quote above). Not only that but given the mileage I do I have done extensive research into winter tyres. What I have gleaned from this research is that you're two lines are a copy and paste from any Tyre Shop's marketing website.

Anyway without descending into a forum spat. If you look at weather paterns over the last few years, for all the daily Mail/ Express doom mongering, we only have temperatures consistently below 7deg C for a couple of weeks a year. Is it not true that above 7deg that Winter tyre's softer compound wears significantly quicker? Therefore it's a lot of money to spend for a few weeks. Are winter tyres justified or just the media darling of the moment?

Clearly you need to do a little bit of research before knocking Lee's comments. Although I agree the papers are good at doom mongering. Hopefully this long-winded post will be of some assistance/education to you...

Seeing as you live in Shrewsbury, which for what I care is near-enough to Birmingham, let's look at the average temperature of this city... (source: http://www.birmingham.climatemps.com/)

JAN - 3.5'c
FEB - 4'c
MAR - 6'c
APR - 9'c
MAY - 12'c
JUN - 15'c
JUL - 16'c
AUG - 16'c
SEPT - 14'c
OCT - 10'c
NOV - 7'c
DEC - 4.5c

As you can see, there would be benefit to you using winter tyres for 5 months of the year or 42% of the year - slightly more than 'a couple of weeks' - this number could increase if you live out in the sticks. There is hard evidence (avoiding tyre companies selling claims) that winter tyres have increased breaking and wet weather performance than a typical summer/all season tyre most in the UK fit. This is down to the additional levels of natural rubber (making the tyre more flexible), snipes in the tread block (to grip in snow and icy conditions), and level of tread for wet weather (most are nearer 11mm as apposed to 7mm on a summer-tyre).

The lower the temp goes, such as 0'c as is current - the greater the benefit. Take into account that most people drive a car to and from work during early hours / late evening - these average temps can be even lower than sourced. Similarly, winter tyres in summer still work, they simply wear quicker but not to any degree more than cheap budget summer tyres.

Based on the above I have been riding winter Dunlop 3D Sports since November (235/40/18). First thing I noticed was how much softer the ride felt when it was cold. Tyre noise was less, traction was greatly improved at junctions/roundabouts/braking - MPG unaffected.

Then when it finally did snow my Mrs' Clio could not find traction on our lane/side road or a main route into Southampton. The Volvo (FWD/Auto) did not loose traction once on my 40mile commute, and I remained confident in the cars ability. It was the usual story when I got to the office and one of my staff rung to say his Discovery wasn't moving off the drive and calling his car crap - that would be the Pirelli P-Zero's then, nothing to do with the car. Just because your car is designed in Sweden doesn't give it magical powers to gain traction in poor condition's, hence why Swedish people, with Swedish cars, still buy winter tyres.

The downside was it still took me ages to get to work due to all the other cars that cant be bothered to prepare for winter. The usual comments of 'it only snows once a blue moon' is not reason for not investing in safety - otherwise let's not wear seat belts based on the fact your chances of crashing are less than getting to your destination. Naturally I would like to see all motorists using winter tyres to reduce my journey time.

In terms of initial outlay then there is a cost. My tyres were near £650. On the contrary summer tyres wear significantly quicker in colder weather and as you would have two sets (based on you currently having rubber of your wheels) then come APR/MAY you could switch back to your old tyres for a relatively small cost meaning your wear rate on each set would be reduced. I see kwik-fit etc are now starting to even offer tyre storage for 1 year @ £150ish plus they will switch-over and re-balance in this fee. If you have a shed/garage then there is a greater saving here.

As you can see I'm sold. The only real downside I can see is if you sale your car and get a car with a different tyre size. To mitigate this a set of steel universal wheels on popular size (say 16/17") may help.

I hope this helps and am happy to go into more detail if you require.

[LiamT4]

and here i am driving an old bmw in all this "terrible" weather on my "summer" contis and having no issues driving??

Of course winter tyres have more grip in cold, icy conditions, but i drive slower and leave more room when the temperature drops and as such i have not had any issues with my tyres. I have snow socks in my boot, but i'v not had to use them yet.

If i lived in the country side or had to drive places where the roads were hardly ever gritted the i would get winter tyres, but for my needs and i live in the city i don't think they are worth it.

One thing to point out though, they are not always better in the wet, only when its cold as its not just the tread depth thats important here, but the tread design. Also its not just because they will wear quicker in the summer that you should change them, they have less grip in warm conditions.

Put simply winter tyres will give more grip when the temp drops below 7'c and summmer tyres will have more grip above this temp, its then up to each person to to make a judgement based on the roads and condition where they live and decide if its worth it.

[The White Knight]

and here i am driving an old bmw in all this "terrible" weather on my "summer" contis and having no issues driving??

Of course winter tyres have more grip in cold, icy conditions, but i drive slower and leave more room when the temperature drops and as such i have not had any issues with my tyres. I have snow socks in my boot, but i'v not had to use them yet.

If i lived in the country side or had to drive places where the roads were hardly ever gritted the i would get winter tyres, but for my needs and i live in the city i don't think they are worth it.

One thing to point out though, they are not always better in the wet, only when its cold as its not just the tread depth thats important here, but the tread design. Also its not just because they will wear quicker in the summer that you should change them, they have less grip in warm conditions.

Put simply winter tyres will give more grip when the temp drops below 7'c and summmer tyres will have more grip above this temp, its then up to each person to to make a judgement based on the roads and condition where they live and decide if its worth it.

What's your secret Liam, my missus has a 1 series and it is god awful in these conditions...

[LiamT4]

What's your secret Liam, my missus has a 1 series and it is god awful in these conditions...

Plenty of weight over the rear wheels (i had about 95kgs in the boot when i went work yesterday plus 3/4 of a tank of fuel), lots of tread on the tyres and, more importantly, staying away from hilly roads with compacted snow or ice on them.

But saying that, if you live somewhere that does have dodgy roads for a lot of the time and have to drive on them, then i would say winter tyres would definatly be worth it, especially on a bmw.

[MA'R'K]

Plenty of weight over the rear wheels (i had about 95kgs in the boot when i went work yesterday plus 3/4 of a tank of fuel), lots of tread on the tyres and, more importantly, staying away from hilly roads with compacted snow or ice on them.

But saying that, if you live somewhere that does have dodgy roads for a lot of the time and have to drive on them, then i would say winter tyres would definatly be worth it, especially on a bmw.

I can see why you don't bother Liam, Leicester is pretty flat and city 'nanny'd' roads.....I have to travel cross country and all around my area are steep icy hills which usually get clogged with abandoned cars! Winter tyres for me are more of an added assurance I can get to a variety of places... if work stops then payments stop, so the investment is well worth it.

Performance wise though, they still slide of course, but everything is far more predictable....stick it purposefully into a slide and you know you can grab control back when required :B_thumb:

I used Uniroyal wet weathers last year and they were a very good tyre even on the colder days, but getting up steep inclines, often without 'runups' where even the best normal all weather tyres would spin, these just grip and get you up what would normally be toooo risky...especially when there are parked cars either side of narrow steep streets!

[The White Knight]

I can see why you don't bother Liam, Leicester is pretty flat and city 'nanny'd' roads.....I have to travel cross country and all around my area are steep icy hills which usually get clogged with abandoned cars! Winter tyres for me are more of an added assurance I can get to a variety of places... if work stops then payments stop, so the investment is well worth it.

Performance wise though, they still slide of course, but everything is far more predictable....stick it purposefully into a slide and you know you can grab control back when required :B_thumb:

I used Uniroyal wet weathers last year and they were a very good tyre even on the colder days, but getting up steep inclines, often without 'runups' where even the best normal all weather tyres would spin, these just grip and get you up what would normally be toooo risky...especially when there are parked cars either side of narrow steep streets!

Ever been to Bristol.....

[MA'R'K]

Ever been to Bristol.....

No.....where's that? :D

[The White Knight]

No.....where's that? :D

A place in between some icy hills!

[LiamT4]

I can see why you don't bother Liam, Leicester is pretty flat and city 'nanny'd' roads.....I have to travel cross country and all around my area are steep icy hills which usually get clogged with abandoned cars! Winter tyres for me are more of an added assurance I can get to a variety of places... if work stops then payments stop, so the investment is well worth it.

If i had to travel more in this weather and lived somewhere with more hills, then i would have winter tyres fitted as well.

[Mr D]

Jimka has the right idea - I picked up my winters a few years back and they get swapped out every year around nov/dec and my black round circles get put back on once the temps are soundly about 7-10degC. They aren't just for "a few weeks", the compound provides more grip at lower temperatures, shifts more water (unless your normal tyres are better than black round circles that is) due to the siping and are nice and quiet too. Might pick up a better set for the rest of the year when the nice weather comes back though; also need to visit M-R-P and give the wheels a paint job but that's a little off-topic =)

I do drive to Sweden most winters where it's law to have winter tyres if the weather turns nasty (for foreign cars that is, Swedish cars have to have either winters from when the clocks change or all weather tyres), so that might have something to do with it. First trip was in that crazy snow we had a few years back - being able to easily and safely drive around others slipping around on the road pretty much justified the purchase - the worst roads were in the UK though, which says something too I suppose.

[Wobbly Dave]

Just swapped my racing slicks to fit the 17" comets I have with the Falken winter tyres, that ordinarily would be on Betsy. All it took to fit the Ford hubs, on the S40 was 8 quids worth of spigots (63.4mm hubs to 65.1 alloy centres) & 24 quid to swap the tyres over. It's night & day grip wise, particularly as I live on a untreated road.

perhaps the race slicks would have been more fun?

[LeeT5]

best fun is using work van in snow - lwb sprinters. rwd and tyres designed for better fuel consumption (doesnt work cos we rag em :P) and as a delivery driver have to go down all the crappy un gritted roads and slide about. still fun when I don't get stuck in it though and embaress other drivers :D
I've never fitted winter tyres to my cars and not once have I had an issue. Driven in snow and ice in Rover 214, escort 1.8, mondeo 1.8, rover 416 (my ex's), subaru legacy (dads and to be fair thats awd) and now my S60 2.0T

All been on different tyres. My Volvo is on Cooper tyres on the standard 17's and I've had no wheel spin, no sliding and no problems stopping. Just down to driving according to the conditions and no I don't drive everywhere at 2mph. Course I did have help in that my dad used to Rally so have some rally driving techniques. Did used to prat about in my rover and escort - used to basically go everywhere sideways in them which is funny as hell going past a slithering brandnew range rover in a 13 year old rover 1.4 going sideways ;)

With respect...a Rover 214, escort 1.8, mondeo 1.8, rover 416 doesn't weigh nearly 1.7 tonne! If they did then they would have behaved very differently in the snow and ice.

[LeeT5]

Lee, I do read threads very thoroughly...Obviously. (used with the same justification as quote above). Not only that but given the mileage I do I have done extensive research into winter tyres. What I have gleaned from this research is that you're two lines are a copy and paste from any Tyre Shop's marketing website.



Actually, i wrote that myself based on the fact that i had researched the winter tires before i bought them. I didn't copy and paste anything, its a fact that i know all too well.
Having spent 4 years working in Norway, most of which were inside the Arctic circle and countless 'snow and ice' driving courses and skidpan training.
So you can climb down off your high horse now fella - I think i know what I'm talking about.

Nuff said.

[JimmyBurnWorld]

No horses mounted, no offence intended or taken. Thank you for a list of your credentials. Sorry. Fin.

Anyway, thanks to jimka for the info dump earlier. I do see what you're saying, and it does make a lot of sense.

A lot of people who comment on winter tyres seem to just quote the marketing lines, however it's always useful to cut through this and get some real world perspective. My main concerns were: 1) Cost vs REAL Benefit, 2) Wear outside of wintery conditions

As with a few people who've commented though, I struggle to notice the decrease in grip from my summer tyres in colder conditions, apart from when the white stuff cometh!

Apart from when I'm having a run of crap luck with punctures, I get through 2 sets of fronts and a set of rears each year, so if Winter tyres could give more than a few weeks/ couple of months service without disintegrating then it might work out for me as part of the normal wear and tear cycle.

The other question is tread width. The normal summer tyres (as mentioned earlier) are quite a wide tyre, however when you see the Skandi country cars in winter, they all seem to have narrower tyres. If you're buying a second set of wheels, is it worth going for a narrower width? Would this upset the handling in other ways? Even Redbrick's 205 width sound wide compared to some cars I've seen abroad in the winter.

[LiamT4]

No horses mounted, no offence intended or taken. Thank you for a list of your credentials. Sorry. Fin.

Anyway, thanks to jimka for the info dump earlier. I do see what you're saying, and it does make a lot of sense.

A lot of people who comment on winter tyres seem to just quote the marketing lines, however it's always useful to cut through this and get some real world perspective. My main concerns were: 1) Cost vs REAL Benefit, 2) Wear outside of wintery conditions

As with a few people who've commented though, I struggle to notice the decrease in grip from my summer tyres in colder conditions, apart from when the white stuff cometh!

Apart from when I'm having a run of crap luck with punctures, I get through 2 sets of fronts and a set of rears each year, so if Winter tyres could give more than a few weeks/ couple of months service without disintegrating then it might work out for me as part of the normal wear and tear cycle.

The other question is tread width. The normal summer tyres (as mentioned earlier) are quite a wide tyre, however when you see the Skandi country cars in winter, they all seem to have narrower tyres. If you're buying a second set of wheels, is it worth going for a narrower width? Would this upset the handling in other ways? Even Redbrick's 205 width sound wide compared to some cars I've seen abroad in the winter.

Narrow tyres advantage is in the snow as the weight is spread over a smaller surface so the tyres dig in and (hopefully) find grip. No need to go really narrow in this country as we don't have enough snow, average sized winters will be more than enough for most of what we get.

Also, if you do get through 2 sets a year, you may as well have winter tyres on when its cold as they are no more expensive than normal tyres anyway.

[LeeT5]

I would also like to add one more thing. A lot of winter driving has more to do with the driver than the type of tyres fitted on the car. An experienced driver can easily drive on summer tyres in the snow and ice if he/she knows what they're doing. reduced torque by pulling away in 2nd gear and 'walking' the steering when climbing hills are just a couple of tips to aid skillful driving in arduous winter conditions and decreasing your tyre pressures will also massively aid traction when driving on ice and snow.

Anyone can drive like a loon and the times i see drivers just flooring their cars when they get stuck just makes me laugh!

Remembering that locked wheels don't steer will also aid you when the sh*t hits the fan and you find yourself in a skid on a bend or sliding into the car in front that is stationary.

...just a thought....

[LeeT5]

A lot of people who comment on winter tyres seem to just quote the marketing lines, however it's always useful to cut through this and get some real world perspective. My main concerns were: 1) Cost vs REAL Benefit, 2) Wear outside of wintery conditions

As with a few people who've commented though, I struggle to notice the decrease in grip from my summer tyres in colder conditions, apart from when the white stuff cometh!

Apart from when I'm having a run of crap luck with punctures, I get through 2 sets of fronts and a set of rears each year, so if Winter tyres could give more than a few weeks/ couple of months service without disintegrating then it might work out for me as part of the normal wear and tear cycle.

The other question is tread width. The normal summer tyres (as mentioned earlier) are quite a wide tyre, however when you see the Skandi country cars in winter, they all seem to have narrower tyres. If you're buying a second set of wheels, is it worth going for a narrower width? Would this upset the handling in other ways? Even Redbrick's 205 width sound wide compared to some cars I've seen abroad in the winter.

I had my Vreds winters on last year for 3 months and when i removed them and fitted them in the garage i measured the tread depth. They had dropped 1mm in that time. So, i figure i'll get about 6-7 years out of one set!
As said, narrower tyres dig in more due to more weight on a smaller surface area = more traction. Also, narrower tyres will be cheaper. I didn't wanna get steel 17" rims as this would ruin the look of the car for the months they are fitted, hense i got alloys. I suppose i could of found a set of 17" Pegs....but beggars can't be choosers as far as Volvo genuine alloys are concerned.
Worth noting also, that the reason Scandinavian country's have narrower tyres is also because during the winter months they have to use studded tyres. The studs can be removed when there is no ice/snow hense the reason narrower tyres are used. Studding a 235 profile tyre would cost almost twice that of a 185 or a 195 profile.

[stephenevans99]

A lot of winter driving has more to do with the driver than the type of tyres fitted on the car. An experienced driver can easily drive on summer tyres in the snow and ice if he/she knows what they're doing. reduced torque by pulling away in 2nd gear and 'walking' the steering when climbing hills are just a couple of tips to aid skillful driving in arduous winter conditions and decreasing your tyre pressures will also massively aid traction when driving on ice and snow.

Anyone can drive like a loon and the times i see drivers just flooring their cars when they get stuck just makes me laugh!

Remembering that locked wheels don't steer will also aid you when the sh*t hits the fan and you find yourself in a skid on a bend or sliding into the car in front that is stationary.

...just a thought....

Never a truer word spoken....it's too easy to blame the tyres, brakes, suspension, steering etc these days when often it's the driver that's at fault. A little extra care, preparation, thought & planning ahead will pay dividends when driving in these conditions.

[Wobbly Dave]

By that logic then we should have the same EU tyre laws - because it is quite clear that the majority do not have these skills.

[The White Knight]

By that logic then we should have the same EU tyre laws - because it is quite clear that the majority do not have these skills.

Very true.

[Harvey]

Do you think when we get a 1/2 of snow we close the schools in the UK.in Germany does the same happen,no it doesn't.
But if your car gets stuck in the snow without winter tyres on and someone with snow tyres hits them guess who at fault.






The car without the winter tyres on is at fault for getting stuck and causing the Accident to happen in the first case.

[stevmo]

With respect...a Rover 214, escort 1.8, mondeo 1.8, rover 416 doesn't weigh nearly 1.7 tonne! If they did then they would have behaved very differently in the snow and ice.

did with all the cack I had in them including big subs :P
Oh and not to mention no problems in my e39 530d SE auto touring - nearly 2 tonnes, auto, rwd and budget tyres on the front with 2mm tread on the rears (now has 4new khumos which also had no problems on) and that has worn bushes, leaking rear airbag and other issues including rough idle on engine (all being fixed before flogging)

all about driving 200 yards ahead. look whats 200 yards ahead and start doing whats needed then.

If I can get a lwb sprinter with almost no load up a 1 in 3 hill on ice and slush I can cope with a volvo with good ALL WEATHER tyres :P