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chance
Thursday 13th January 2005, 12:50
Hello all, great site! I'm new here and faced with the news of a third child on the way I'm looking at a T5 estate as the only practical car that can also satisfy the petrol head in me on my meagre budget (hopefully up to £6000).

I've had a look around the forum but there are still a few points I'd like to clarify:

What exactly are the differences between the 225bhp T5, the 240bhp T5-R model and the 850R? The 17" wheels are obvious, but is the extra horsepower just attributed to different boost pressure, or are we talking about other mechanical differences?

Is the suspension on the R models different from the regular T5, and if so does the firmer suspension give an overly harsh ride?

Is the front spoiler the only external difference?

Are there other differences (apart from trim) I should be aware of?

Can the boot seat be fitted to an R model?

You might have gathered that I'm choosing between the regular T5 and the R models; I would definitely fit the 17" wheels, but if the R versions are overly hard-riding I might stick with the 'ordinary' T5 - after all, I can always upgrade the ECU bhp.

Any advice would be much appreciated.

Murphy
Thursday 13th January 2005, 13:11
The T5 is the engine, with 225 hp in the 850 guise. Available in manual and auto with an array of different specs from an entry model 'S' to the flagship CD.

Then you have the limited versions. The T5-R available 1994-1995 available in ltd colours and tweaked to 240hp. The spec was similar to the CD but with sporty seats, suspension and wheels.

Then thee is the 850R which was available 1995-1996. This featured similar spec to the T5-R but with a limited slip diff and different 17" alloy wheels. And an extra 10 hp ;)

Andy

chance
Thursday 13th January 2005, 14:15
Hello Andy,

I know the basics, engine outputs, dates, models etc, but it's the specific details I'm interested in.

The few road tests I've unearthed give conflicting information: was the suspension lower on the R models? If so, was this due to different spring rates? Are the dampers and anti-roll bars different? I have at least one test which says that the R has a bigger turbo and intercooler - is this true? Would re-mapping the regular T5 ECU to 250bhp give long-term problems with reliability? And do all you R owners out there find that the front spoiler grounds-out all the time? The example I test-drove last year scraped it's spoiler three times within the two mile route!

I've also read that the 850R has a viscous coupling to limit the wheelspin, but it was only available on the manual saloon models. Is the wheelspin a big issue on the other cars?

Is there a good book available on all this?

Murphy
Thursday 13th January 2005, 15:11
Hi Chance

Well the 850's are fitted with Mitsubishi turbos. I am pretty sure that all T5's and all Auto T5's and R's have a 15g turbo. The Manual 850R and T5R had a 16t turbo which is bigger and hence the larger output.

My car is 304hp and it is auto with no LSD. Wheel spin can be a problem and it is very easy to make a specticle of yourself. However due to the weight of volvo's coupled with their 60/40 weight distrabution the wheel spin is easily controled, even on my car.

I have a friend who has a large 19T turbo and a map that takes the power to circa 340 hp and with the LSD this car is very well behaved.

The best option is to have a look around and see what you can find, cause if you limit yourself to requiring a 850R manual estate for £6000 it may take a while to find.

As far as the bumper goes on the R's it does have a lower valance, and can catch but my friend with the R is lowered slightly and manages to comfortably get over the humps.

The ride on volvo's is very good due to it's dimensions even when they are lowered, so there is not a lot to worry about there.

just ask if there is more info required


Andy

Bracer
Thursday 13th January 2005, 15:14
The only mechanical differences between the 3 are.

T-5R Stiffer springs over T-5

850R Stiffer springs over T-5 but softer than T-5R

T5 and T-5R and 850R Auto all have same size turbo 15G

850R Manual has 16T turbo

850R has LSD (which is weaker than the M56 box fitted to the T-5 and T-5R)

Interiors were all slightly different but along the same theme of Leather Wood etc.

As for Intercoolers and intake systems and zorsts there all the same apart from the DP on the 850R cos of the different turbo.

Saying that the did do 2 versions of the 15G one with a floating flange and the other fixed.

Hope this answers your questions ?

Regards

Steve

chance
Thursday 13th January 2005, 15:31
Great information guys, just the kind of thing I was looking for.

I think this will open my options up to including the 'regular' T5. Good news as I'd really like an auto with leather and I'll need the boot seat - might prove to be a tricky combination to find on an R model.

I'd still like to fit it with the 17" anthracite wheels (in either style). Does anyone know if these are still available new from Volvo or will I have to keep checking Ebay for a used set? If it's a used set, are they difficult to re-finish? I've heard that the BMW M5 'black chrome' wheels are very hard to do.

Bracer
Thursday 13th January 2005, 15:33
They are still available but I think you can get the New S60R Pegasus rims cheaper and there 18's :wink:

Murphy
Thursday 13th January 2005, 15:57
Here is a picture of my car chance with titan replica wheels.

Click here (http://www.bigredvolvos.co.uk/images/rwyb_aug_04/wonderer.jpg)

P.S Grill has been removed and 4x4 look has been removed since this picture was taken ;)

cloudboy99
Thursday 13th January 2005, 16:00
I would go with the newer rims. The T5-R came equiped withTitan rims (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7945021116) while the 96-97 came with the Volan. The R models also came with suede inlays on the seats instead of just leather. Performance wise, you can just chip the T5 and be right on with the R. Of course as was suggested, you could just go with the 18" S60R Rim (http://slonik.w3bbix.net/volvo/R/s60r5.jpg)

Murphy
Thursday 13th January 2005, 16:03
I would go with the newer rims. The T5-R came equiped withTitan rims (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7945021116) while the 96-97 came with the Volan. The R models also came with suede inlays on the seats instead of just leather. Performance wise, you can just chip the T5 and be right on with the R. Of course as was suggested, you could just go with the 18" S60R Rim (http://slonik.w3bbix.net/volvo/R/s60r5.jpg)

Just leather is just fine, and 18's make a hash of the ride. Chance is looking for a comfortable ride on his choice car !

cloudboy99
Thursday 13th January 2005, 16:13
For a comfortable ride, the stock T5 16s work well. My ride was very smooth but trying to keep up with my BMW mates in the twisties meant upgrading to 17s for the traction and lowering her a bit. The main reasons I bought a T5 over the R is:

1. Cheaper
2. Same performance with the right mods
3. Same car, different insurance cost (the R being "sportier")

chance
Thursday 13th January 2005, 17:09
You're right cloudboy, I am looking for a decent ride/handling compromise - have to consider the passengers after all.

For that reason (and the initial purchase price, ease of supply etc) I'll probably favour the softer set-up of the standard V70T5 with the 17" wheels - I could always fit lower springs later. I just love the looks of the T5-R on 5-spoke Titans. Are the replicas any good? They look as though they might have narrower spokes, though it might just be the photo angle. I'd rather buy some OEM wheels if possible, anyone have an idea of the current cost or the whereabouts of a s/h set?

855t5r
Thursday 13th January 2005, 17:20
The only mechanical differences between the 3 are.

T-5R Stiffer springs over T-5

850R Stiffer springs over T-5 but softer than T-5R

T5 and T-5R and 850R Auto all have same size turbo 15G

850R Manual has 16T turbo

850R has LSD (which is weaker than the M56 box fitted to the T-5 and T-5R)

Interiors were all slightly different but along the same theme of Leather Wood etc.

As for Intercoolers and intake systems and zorsts there all the same apart from the DP on the 850R cos of the different turbo.

Saying that the did do 2 versions of the 15G one with a floating flange and the other fixed.

Hope this answers your questions ?

Regards

Steve


The T5R/R also has a beefier clutch than the T5

And also has thicker antiroll bars (as well as stiffer shocks etc)

Apart from the obvious interiorwise (suede,black walnut etc) the T5R/R were the only models to have memory passenger seats as well as drivers seats.

Aircon/climate AND sunroof!

And darker window glass too.

Also if you park a T5R/R next to a standard T5 the T5 looks like its on stilts!

Bracer
Thursday 13th January 2005, 17:31
The T5R/R also has a beefier clutch than the T5

And also has thicker antiroll bars (as well as stiffer shocks etc)

Apart from the obvious interiorwise (suede,black walnut etc) the T5R/R were the only models to have memory passenger seats as well as drivers seats.

Aircon/climate AND sunroof!

And darker window glass too.

Also if you park a T5R/R next to a standard T5 the T5 looks like its on stilts!

Even thou Volvo have 2 different part numbers for clutch's they are both the same item.

And there are no dirrerences is Damper rates or Anti Rollbar diameter. The only change to the suspension was the ride height and spring rate.

CD spec was avaliable with AC + Climate + Sunroof.

And the glass tint are all the same too.

855t5r
Thursday 13th January 2005, 17:56
Even thou Volvo have 2 different part numbers for clutch's they are both the same item.

And there are no dirrerences is Damper rates or Anti Rollbar diameter. The only change to the suspension was the ride height and spring rate.

CD spec was avaliable with AC + Climate + Sunroof.

And the glass tint are all the same too.



yeah but on the CD the above will have all been options (on the T5R/R they are standard!)

You could say that Titans were standard on the CD as they were available as an upgrade option!

As for the spring rates anti-roll bars etc, I was only going of the T5R dealer Principle letter that would have been sent out to all dealers prior to the release of the T5R.
(It must have been wrong then!!!)

I was only trying to help (not be a smart ares like some peple on here!!!) Oh well! :(

cloudboy99
Thursday 13th January 2005, 18:39
You're right cloudboy, I am looking for a decent ride/handling compromise - have to consider the passengers after all.

For that reason (and the initial purchase price, ease of supply etc) I'll probably favour the softer set-up of the standard V70T5 with the 17" wheels - I could always fit lower springs later. I just love the looks of the T5-R on 5-spoke Titans. Are the replicas any good? They look as though they might have narrower spokes, though it might just be the photo angle. I'd rather buy some OEM wheels if possible, anyone have an idea of the current cost or the whereabouts of a s/h set?
The 850/SVC70 use a 5x108mm bolt pattern so any wheel that comes in that can be used. If you are thinking of upgrading wheels at some point, try to keep them ?x7-7,5 as the ?x8s have a tendency of rubbing the front wheelwells. I have TME lowering springs and Bilstein yellow shocks/struts on my saloon and can no longer carry more than two people due to bottoming out over bumps (ouch). I swapped out my 16s and went with 17x8 OZ Racing Superleggeras (http://www.custom-wheels-rims-alloys.co.uk/OZ-SUPERLEGGERA-RACE-SILVER-5-Stud-8x17.html). Fortunately I have a 245DL Estate for the heavy lifting. Those 2 series last forever (my brother's has over 600k on his original engine)!

Wobbly Dave
Friday 14th January 2005, 01:51
I am a bit biased. I would also be happy to show you why the R is such a nice car.

The T5 is fab but it is only the engine and I feel that the sum of the parts is what counts.

My 850R did not come with the 17" Volans orignally (as my gallery will testify) rather the 16" Comets. I feel closer to the mark with the 17s but they are very hard to come by and I had to pay over the odds for mine, but I feel it was worth it.

I feel the subtle touches like the alcantera inserts vs leather outers on the seats (which is the other way around on the T5-R) is great as it stops you sliding around and it is warmer when you get in.

You get the 850 sill trims on the 850R. Mine also has the dark wood finish on the dash. You get all the bits TRACS/ABS, Heated Rear 1/4s/ electric Wing mirrors, Cruise, independent A/C, sun roof and so on and so forth. There are many if not all these things on the CD spec but on top you are getting the flagship model (along with group 17 insurance).

The auto is a dream to drive. I had Guy, Pammy, Justin, Kat + all their luggage on the way to the airport today - no problem!

Oh yeah and shes red
http://www.volvot5.co.uk/volvogallery/thumbnails.php?album=43

Given the choice I would still prefer to have either the T5-R or 850R

Bracer
Friday 14th January 2005, 09:00
yeah but on the CD the above will have all been options (on the T5R/R they are standard!)

You could say that Titans were standard on the CD as they were available as an upgrade option!

As for the spring rates anti-roll bars etc, I was only going of the T5R dealer Principle letter that would have been sent out to all dealers prior to the release of the T5R.
(It must have been wrong then!!!)

I was only trying to help (not be a smart ares like some peple on here!!!) Oh well! :(

Take a chill out pill man !

I'm not trying to show anyone up here, I was just correcting you, ok ?

The press release is correct in that things like the clutch / antiroll bars and many other parts are different to that on early 850 i.e. 93 and early 94's but after that they started to common up parts accross the range.

Hope this has explained things a bit more.

Regards

Steve :wink:

chance
Friday 14th January 2005, 10:44
My 850R did not come with the 17" Volans orignally (as my gallery will testify) rather the 16" Comets.

I'm a little confused by this, as the original wheels on Dave's car appear to be 17", not 16"(you can read the markings on the tyre). Could someone clarify the various wheel designs for me:

The 17" T5-R five spoke is the Titan
The 17" 850R seven spoke is the Comet
The 17" V70R twisted five spoke is the Volan
The 18" 'new V70R' five spoke is the Pegasus

Is this correct? A what is the name of the standard 16", five spoke T5 wheel?

Mrsmopp
Friday 14th January 2005, 10:54
The comets and the volans are the wrong way round but other than that you're spot on!

x

chance
Friday 14th January 2005, 11:53
Ah, I think I got Dave's swap the wrong way round. So:

The 17" T5-R five spoke is the Titan
The 17" 850R seven spoke is the Volan
The 16" V70R twisted five spoke is the Comet
The 18" 'new V70R' five spoke is the Pegasus

Is this correct?

So what is the name of the standard 16", five spoke 850T5 wheel, and didn't the V70R have a 17" five spoke option - or was this just a larger sized Comet?

Mrsmopp
Friday 14th January 2005, 12:19
Yep! Your exactly right. The comets also come in 17's on the s/v70R's.

And I cant for the life of me remember the name of the standard 850 alloys!!!

x

Bracer
Friday 14th January 2005, 12:39
Columbas = T5 in 16" only

Titans = T-5R in 17" only

Volans = 850R in 17" only

Comets = S70R & V70R in 16" & 17"

Pegasus = S60R & V70R in 17" & 18"

chance
Friday 14th January 2005, 21:41
More confusion; there are two cars in the 'for sale' area that claim to be T-5R models (not 850R), but they're in olive green. I understood that black or yellow were the only colour choices - am I wrong or are these cars replicas? They seem to have the correct badging, seat trim, wheels etc.

Is there a sure-fire way to spot the real thing? Chassis numbers?

Mrsmopp
Saturday 15th January 2005, 00:38
T5R's came in yellow, black and olive green :wink:

x

Goof
Saturday 15th January 2005, 09:33
To get a 850R / T5R (well, an "R") will cost more than an 850 T-5.
However, you can get well specced ones:-

My 850 T-5 doesn't seem to have a trim level - it had been specced up with options by the original owner:-

854, black, manual, Volvo lowered susp, full leather, premium 6 CD audio, A/C, centre booster seat, elec sunroof, 4 x elec windows, heated mirrors (std fit?), front fogs, remote alarm immob.

I bought this last Oct from a dealer in the Mids, it has full s.h. and old MoTs, - cost me £1995.

There are 850 T-5 bargains out there! - T5R not so.

You could find the right T5 and tweak it as you wish with the money you'll save over a T5R. :)

Wobbly Dave
Sunday 16th January 2005, 02:15
I think my original wheels (16" Comets) must have been a special option as I would have expected 17" Volans.

Also found that the exclusive floor mats that you can no longer get had been sold/removed from her when I bought her - but alas I did not have the depth of knowledge I have now.

R Variants will always be the best IMHO

Mrsmopp
Sunday 16th January 2005, 15:30
The only difference between say J's CD spec and Dave's R is the half suede interior - if you want to pay and extra 2k for that then its worth it!

x

adamt5r
Sunday 16th January 2005, 22:07
hi,
i have a T5R, ride is great, front bumper clearence is ok, performance is superb(315bhp), i have an lsd in mine and its original????? go for an R your'll love it

Wobbly Dave
Monday 17th January 2005, 01:14
The only difference between say J's CD spec and Dave's R is the half suede interior - if you want to pay and extra 2k for that then its worth it!

x

Not to start with it wasnt!! Suspension, ECU, exterior styling and wheels. And, and, and ! it's got an R on the back :anmflower

wright_t5
Monday 17th January 2005, 07:25
Hi,

Is your car lowered? and Where did you get your windows tinted done, and how much?

Mrsmopp
Monday 17th January 2005, 10:00
Not to start with it wasnt!! Suspension, ECU, exterior styling and wheels. And, and, and ! it's got an R on the back :anmflower

No but its now quicker than yours and he has spent a lot less money - so like i say Its just the interior and an R badge.

x

chance
Wednesday 19th January 2005, 15:12
Though I note Dave's comments regarding originality (there's nothing quite like the real thing), I think I've come down on the side of building my own 'R' (from an 850T5 or V70 T5) rather than finding an original car for a number of reasons:

1) I'd like the full leather rather than the Alcantara mix - don't fancy the chances of the Alcantara surviving 3 children's sticky deposits.
2) Wider colour choice - though I'd always favour the black as a first choice and olive second, at least I'd have a choice should a nice example catch my eye. Silver anyone? Was there a dark silver grey T5 offered?
3) Cheaper purchase price, though this is offset by the parts necessary for a true R-spec.
4) Wider choice of cars - much more likely to find a good T5 in a nice colour and lower mileage.
5) Sheer hell of it - there's something very satisfying in building up your own hot-rod.
6) I can always recoup some of the costs by keeping the new parts to sell-on or transfer to my next Volvo.

I'll be looking for the car in the early summer, as soon as I can sell my '99 Alfa 156 (great, but too small) and my father's '91 XJ6. Before that I want to start collecting the necessary 'R' parts either new, used, ebay, etc. So I need a little help on a few choices.

Wheels
Bracer and Cloudboy recommended the Pegasus 5-spoke wheels from the new-shape T5R, possibly cheaper and easier to find than original Titans (unless someone can offer me a set?). I'd like a set of the 17" rather than 18"; I haven't checked with Volvo yet but does anyone have an approximate price and know if these wheels have the same PCD and offset as the Titans? I fitted a set of replica AMG wheels to a Mercedes a while back and they stuck out far too much. Also, are they available in the graphite finish? I know the 18" are.

I'll ask other questions as we go along - don't want to overburden you all!

Bracer
Wednesday 19th January 2005, 15:17
Pegs drop staight on :wink:

Send me £600 and you can have my set of 5 Titans :eek:

Pedro Fandango
Friday 21st January 2005, 06:54
can't believe no-one mentioned that the rear spoiler on the T-5R/R's 854's is different to normal T-5's

BT is badged as a T-5R & even confused a high up official at a Volvo concours show, just fit the R front bumper, 17"/18"s & change the badge on the back job done :eek:

Bracer
Friday 21st January 2005, 08:45
The 850R had a different rear spoiler to the T5's also, it has an extra black edge at a more Acute angle.











:hidesbehi

chance
Friday 28th January 2005, 12:38
Sorry to keep harping on this, but I think that this forum of all places should be the place that can identify the genuine article.

I've just aquired an original T-5R brochure which lists the available spec on the saloon and estate. According to the list a genuine T-5R should have the obvious body and wheel additions, black walnut dash, the Amaretta/Leather-mix seats, climate control, electric seats and sunroof - and was only available in cream Yellow or Black. The only options listed are a choice of two body styles, two transmissions and two colours.

So how does this account for all those Olive examples with full leather I keep seeing advertised? Someone above mentioned that Olive was an optional colour - well not according to the brochures or the admittedly less than knowledgeable people I've spoken to at Volvo. Were there options such as full leather available?

I'm quite prepared to buy a T5 dressed as an R if the owner is up-front about it and it's possible to check exactly what work has been done. What I object to is the blatant con of passing-off a T5 as a genuine limited edition R model and adding a couple of grand to the asking price.

Does anyone know who you contact at Volvo to check the original details of a chassis number?

Mrsmopp
Friday 28th January 2005, 12:46
Yes, if you give volvo the chasis number they will be able to give you all the details of the car as it came from the factory - any additions or alterations - a sure why to make sure its the general atricle!

There are definately Olive T5R's - Olive Black and Yellow. I cant imagine anyone wanting to swap there leather/suede interior for the full leather so be wary of anything that is full leather only.

x

chance
Friday 28th January 2005, 13:27
Forgot to ask previously - was the T-5R's black paint solid or metallic?

And was the 850R available in all of the standard colours or a limited range?

Mrsmopp
Friday 28th January 2005, 14:29
The 850R came in graphite grey, black, red, olive (and I think there was another colour but I cant be sure...)

As for the solid or metalic paint I'm not sure - someone on here will know tho!

x

Murphy
Friday 28th January 2005, 16:14
The 850R came in graphite grey, black, red, olive (and I think there was another colour but I cant be sure...)

As for the solid or metalic paint I'm not sure - someone on here will know tho!

x

How could you forget turquoise :cry:

Mrsmopp
Friday 28th January 2005, 16:15
Did the 850R come in turquoise??? :hidesbehi

x

roy chu
Friday 28th January 2005, 16:19
No it came in,

Red, Black, Dark grey, and Green

Roy

855t5r
Saturday 29th January 2005, 10:32
No it came in,

Red, Black, Dark grey, and Green

Roy

And turquoise!!!! Adam at VT has (had?) a turquoise one!

roy chu
Saturday 29th January 2005, 11:24
Oh yeah,

Sorry all I forgot.

Roy

glock19
Wednesday 16th February 2005, 02:16
Do you mean this is the Pegasus ? Found on the V70-R