Maf??

[silverhorse]

New performance air filter fitted. Brill noise!! HAHA
However.......
Engine System service Required
Lumpy at idle
Starting to hunt for revs
Feels down on power

Need to clean MAF?

Found this........http://www.louv.tv/cars/m5/MAF/

Am convinced oil in new filter has made it have a funny turn.
What do you think?
I might do MRP trick of putting filter through dishwasher:)

[M-R-P]

Yeah - dishwasher and clean the maf :)

Worth a try.

[PHIL V70R]

gave mine a shot of carb cleaner then let it dry off...replaced it next day and all was well....on a p1 v70r tho..

[M-R-P]

I found carb cleaner left a residue, which I remove with brake cleaner ;)

[Yosser]

Get a spray can of isopropyl alcohol (IPA) from Maplin/RS Components/whoever and use that - it leaves no residue.

[Harvey]

Have a look on the bay item
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/271111156480

[silverhorse]

Have a look on the bay item
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/271111156480

Ooh. That looks like good stuff. I'm sure they sell that in Clas Ohlson. Better get some:smile:

[Harvey]

I did.my maf sensor with it no problems with it , and it did change the reading at tick over.

[silverhorse]

Just put filter through dishwasher. Top shelf and eco mode!!
Still in one piece and in the same shape.:biggrin:
Cleaned MAF so will put back together tomorrow and hope for the best.
Has anyone who has done their MAF taken it right out of the housing, or is that too risky? The guide I posted earlier says yes, but I am a bit reluctant. Its a bit delicate.

[silverhorse]

Cleaned MAF (kept in housing), put dishwashered filter back in, left batt off for 90 mins to clear light on dash and drove from Norfolk to Brum and back yesterday.
Runs better, but still not right. Still a few flat spots, the odd rev hunting at idle, the odd stall and seems down on power.:wallbash:

Car was fine whilst pootling along a 50 in traffic, but when road cleared and I gave it the beans, I could feel all was not well.

Have ordered some security torx bits so I can get MAF out of housing and give a good clean. will use soft craft paint brush or cotton buds (VERY gently!)
A new MAF from PFV is much money, but I have seen these.....http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AIR-FLOW-METER-8670398-VOLVO-S60-S80-C70-V70-XC70-XC90-NEW-/260881022437?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item3cbdb87de5

I assume from the price that they are chinese rip offs, but has anyone had a go. If the original Bosch part will last 10 years but these only 3, then i can live with that. Or are they utter §§§§e?

[M-R-P]

I wouldn't touch the sensors with anything but liquid mate. Did you clean the contacts in the maf plug? they can corrode and give false readings.
You hear varying opinions on the cheap MAFs, some say they're as good as the proper ones, some say they last 10 minutes. Worth a punt I suppose.

I've never taken the sensor out of the housing, just given it a prolonged wash with carb cleaner and another with brake cleaner.
(and the occasional whack with a screwdriver).

My air filter went through the dishwasher yesterday too ;)

[silverhorse]

I wouldn't touch the sensors with anything but liquid mate. Did you clean the contacts in the maf plug? they can corrode and give false readings.
You hear varying opinions on the cheap MAFs, some say they're as good as the proper ones, some say they last 10 minutes. Worth a punt I suppose.

I've never taken the sensor out of the housing, just given it a prolonged wash with carb cleaner and another with brake cleaner.
(and the occasional whack with a screwdriver).

My air filter went through the dishwasher yesterday too ;)

Yeah, I know what you mean about liquid only. Will try plug contacts too. I left the sensor in its housing and basically sprayed anything that looked metallic. when I get my torx delivered, I will take sensor out and have a really good look.
I have resigned myself to the fact that the MAF is possibly bugg3red and am willing to try a cheapy replacement before shelling out £250 for a proper one.
why could I not have left well alone!!??
Oh yeah.....that noise:redface:

[M-R-P]

£250?
You can get a bosch OE one from GSF for £90!

[silverhorse]

£250?
You can get a bosch OE one from GSF for £90!

really!!!???
I had not even looked on there. On PFV they want £241.75. Whats all that about:parhmph:
Just been on GSF and can only find this one.....http://www.gsfcarparts.com/parts/fuel-emissions/mixture-formation/air-mass-sensor
You must have seen something I have missed.

[M-R-P]

Hmmm... where did I see that then...

[silverhorse]

My car 2005 2.4 T5. Did you see one for a different model? There are some on there for 2.0 cars and non turbo's....
£90 for a Bosch for my car would be nice!

[M-R-P]

I think the MAF from a V6 cavaleir fits...

[960kg]

You could try these?

http://www.emissioncontrols.co.uk/page.php?domain_name=emissioncontrols.co.uk&viewpage=Maf%20%20Sensors

[silverhorse]

I think the MAF from a V6 cavaleir fits...

lol. However did you find out about that!!
Worth a shot though

[silverhorse]

You could try these?

http://www.emissioncontrols.co.uk/page.php?domain_name=emissioncontrols.co.uk&viewpage=Maf%20%20Sensors

Just had a look. Will contact them.

If your vehicle lacks power this could also be caused by other components/sensors such as

A Faulty EGR valve

Pressure converter switches either for the EGR valve or Turbo

Lambda/oxygen sensors

Clogged air filter

Split intercooler turbo hoses

Split vacuum hoses/pipes

crankcase breather valve

fuel pressure sensor

Great. Whats the betting I have got half of this lot to sort:eek:

[M-R-P]

lol. However did you find out about that!!
Worth a shot though
Think Claymore is using one :)

Just had a look. Will contact them.

If your vehicle lacks power this could also be caused by other components/sensors such as

A Faulty EGR valve UNLIKELY

Pressure converter switches either for the EGR valve or Turbo UNLIKELY

Lambda/oxygen sensors YOU'D HAVE OTHER WARNING SIGNS

Clogged air filter NO

Split intercooler turbo hoses POSSIBLE BUT IT WOULD RUN REALLY CRAP

Split vacuum hoses/pipes POSSIBLE

crankcase breather valve WORTH CHECKING BUT WON'T CAUSE A DROP IN PERFORMANCE

fuel pressure sensor UNLIKELY

Great. Whats the betting I have got half of this lot to sort:eek:

[silverhorse]

Definitely NOT a clogged air filter. lol
Unless it is clogged with Finish Ultra Powerball:o

[LeeT5]

CODES?????????? Then make a proper decision rather than guessing!

[silverhorse]

CODES?????????? Then make a proper decision rather than guessing!

Yep. Got my VIDA/DiCE on order. Same place you got yours. Just waiting now.:D

[silverhorse]

Well, finally got to the bottom of the problem, maybe

Got my ViDA/DiCE over crimbo which enabled me to mess about, go for a test run and then read and clear codes.
Basically, all I can think of is this.......

new performance filter with airbox lid off was allowing too much air to pass the MAF. ECM was thinking that there was a leak in the induction system and the volume of air going in to engine was outside permitted parameters. ie MAF might only accept +/- 15% change in air flow and I had set up 50% increase in air flow.

I originally thought I had knackered the MAF with the oil off the filter, so cleaned it about 4 times. You could eat your dinner off it now! (might throw up a trouble code if I did):)

So, original filter back in and lid on, drive and then plug in.......all good.
Performance filter in and lid on, drive and then plug in.......all good.
No codes showing now BUT I have lost the lovely induction noise:(

Plan is to try with airbox lid off, performance filter in and wrap say 20% of the filter to restrict the airflow until I am within the acceptable parameters and the ECM will not throw up a code.
This is going to be a trial and error job and I always thought that the ECM would 'learn' the new flow rate and make the required adjustments...... obviously the change is too much and car thinks there is a fault.

Anyhooo, will set a morning aside and have a go.

Nearly everyone on here seems to have an aftermarket filter. I can't be the only one with this fault, can I??? (2005 V70 T5. The one with the smaller airbox and tube style filter)

[volvokid]

I have the exact same fault! It's not your air filter that's wrong it has to be something else, otherwise everyone would have problems with new filters.

[silverhorse]

I have the exact same fault! It's not your air filter that's wrong it has to be something else, otherwise everyone would have problems with new filters.
when they updated the V70 mid 2004, did they change the software and ECM values. Thats all I can think of.

[volvokid]

when they updated the V70 mid 2004, did they change the software and ECM values. Thats all I can think of.

That is news to me and very useful, I will mention this to MRG, do you have a source to this info at all?

[volvokid]

Saying that al has a 2005 R running the same setup as me and has no fault

[Jimmie]

QUOTE=volvokid;559531]That is news to me and very useful, I will mention this to MRG, do you have a source to this info at all?[/QUOTE]

Remember you have the latest software installed therefore that is not the problem you are having.
Buy a BMW once you get rid of your Volvo garage end of problems.:smile::wink:

[LeeT5]

Well, finally got to the bottom of the problem, maybe

Got my ViDA/DiCE over crimbo which enabled me to mess about, go for a test run and then read and clear codes.
Basically, all I can think of is this.......

new performance filter with airbox lid off was allowing too much air to pass the MAF. ECM was thinking that there was a leak in the induction system and the volume of air going in to engine was outside permitted parameters. ie MAF might only accept +/- 15% change in air flow and I had set up 50% increase in air flow.

I originally thought I had knackered the MAF with the oil off the filter, so cleaned it about 4 times. You could eat your dinner off it now! (might throw up a trouble code if I did):)

So, original filter back in and lid on, drive and then plug in.......all good.
Performance filter in and lid on, drive and then plug in.......all good.
No codes showing now BUT I have lost the lovely induction noise:(

Plan is to try with airbox lid off, performance filter in and wrap say 20% of the filter to restrict the airflow until I am within the acceptable parameters and the ECM will not throw up a code.
This is going to be a trial and error job and I always thought that the ECM would 'learn' the new flow rate and make the required adjustments...... obviously the change is too much and car thinks there is a fault.

Anyhooo, will set a morning aside and have a go.

Nearly everyone on here seems to have an aftermarket filter. I can't be the only one with this fault, can I??? (2005 V70 T5. The one with the smaller air box and tube style filter)

If you remove the airbox lid on a standard intake system it won't make a blind bit of difference as the air drawn to the filter is PRE MAF and therefore, unmetered. All it will do is increase induction noise. Also, if you fully remove the performance air filter this will also make no difference, trust me. I have a full AMS stainless race filter with holes that are much, much larger than any after market sponge, nylon or paper filter and my car runs sweet with no MAF faults. Even if you remove the filter and just have the MAF attached the car should still run normal and cleaning the MAF will only improve metering.
The ECM does not 'learn' anything. It is 'mapped' to program and correlate the information given to it by various sensors on the car, ie MAF. If the info falls outside the ECM's map + or - whatever, then, the ECM is programmed to adjust certain things mainly on the fuel side of a MAP in order that it may still allow the engine to run within a certain tolerance and safety margins without doing damage. If it cannot adjust to compensate then the ECM will default to limp home mode, illuminate the EML and then drive like a bag of §§§§e. You will more than likely get fault codes stored relating to O2 sensors, random multiple misfire, air leak detected, bla bla bla.
In order for the engine to run smooth and within spec the air has to be metered correctly to start with and pre and post catalyst sensors must also be working correctly. This is crucial as these three things alone are normally the major players in a MPFI car not running right and is even more important when an engine is turbo charged. Obviously, its vital that other sensors are working correctly too. Its very easy to misinterpret the fault code given as more likely it is trying to tell you that the info it's reading is not as it should be and not necessarily, I'm broken - please replace me!

Don't bother wrapping your filter, it will make no difference.

Silverhorse mate...You don't have a problem with the induction system so don't waste your time on it. Think outside the box and look elsewhere, like air leak, vacuum pipes, blocked/cracked breathers.

[silverhorse]

If you remove the airbox lid on a standard intake system it won't make a blind bit of difference as the air drawn to the filter is PRE MAF and therefore, unmetered. All it will do is increase induction noise. Also, if you fully remove the performance air filter this will also make no difference, trust me. I have a full AMS stainless race filter with holes that are much, much larger than any after market sponge, nylon or paper filter and my car runs sweet with no MAF faults. Even if you remove the filter and just have the MAF attached the car should still run normal and cleaning the MAF will only improve metering.
The ECM does not 'learn' anything. It is 'mapped' to program and correlate the information given to it by various sensors on the car, ie MAF. If the info falls outside the ECM's map + or - whatever, then, the ECM is programmed to adjust certain things mainly on the fuel side of a MAP in order that it may still allow the engine to run within a certain tolerance and safety margins without doing damage. If it cannot adjust to compensate then the ECM will default to limp home mode, illuminate the EML and then drive like a bag of §§§§e. You will more than likely get fault codes stored relating to O2 sensors, random multiple misfire, air leak detected, bla bla bla.
In order for the engine to run smooth and within spec the air has to be metered correctly to start with and pre and post catalyst sensors must also be working correctly. This is crucial as these three things alone are normally the major players in a MPFI car not running right and is even more important when an engine is turbo charged. Obviously, its vital that other sensors are working correctly too. Its very easy to misinterpret the fault code given as more likely it is trying to tell you that the info it's reading is not as it should be and not necessarily, I'm broken - please replace me!

Don't bother wrapping your filter, it will make no difference.

Silverhorse mate...You don't have a problem with the induction system so don't waste your time on it. Think outside the box and look elsewhere, like air leak, vacuum pipes, blocked/cracked breathers.

cheers for your thoughts Lee, especially at 0204 in the morning!!!
However, I am not sure I agree with you....
Quite simply, all is OK with standard filter and NOT ok with any tinkering or alteration. It has to be the filter, surely. Have tested MAF on ViDA, it is fine.
I don't think it is a post MAF leak as this would throw up a code.
I firmly believe that the pre MAF air drawn through the aftermarket filter is too much and out of parameters, causing ECM to trigger a fault.
Having said that, you make a good point about checking all hoses, clips, pipes, etc.
This is going to be a long trial and error experiment and hopefully I will come out on top:worried:
I remember MRP telling me when I first joined the forum that later P2 cars can be electronically temperamental. Never a truer bl00dy word spoken!!!

[volvokid]

What is your air reading avg per hour, with the performance filter?

[LeeT5]

cheers for your thoughts Lee, especially at 0204 in the morning!!!
However, I am not sure I agree with you....
Quite simply, all is OK with standard filter and NOT ok with any tinkering or alteration. It has to be the filter, surely. Have tested MAF on ViDA, it is fine.
I don't think it is a post MAF leak as this would throw up a code.
I firmly believe that the pre MAF air drawn through the aftermarket filter is too much and out of parameters, causing ECM to trigger a fault.
Having said that, you make a good point about checking all hoses, clips, pipes, etc.
This is going to be a long trial and error experiment and hopefully I will come out on top:worried:
I remember MRP telling me when I first joined the forum that later P2 cars can be electronically temperamental. Never a truer bl00dy word spoken!!!

I'm working lates at the moment so i'm up until 4am.
As you are aware Martyn (aka Volvokid) is having exactly the same issue as you. I have been speaking with him at length about his issue and trying to help him resolve and he is now having to take the car to MRG. He's got the same car as me and has exactly the same Air Management System from ELEVATE yet when he fits it to his car it starts running rough. When he fits the oe box and filter all is good! Mine runs the same (other than the induction sound) whether i fit oe or AMS. Also, Al (aka AL115) also has the same AMS as me and runs his with no problems on his '05 V70R. Therefore, we have proved beyond all reasonable doubt that the fault does NOT lye with the Air filter or whatever type of system you have that is PRE maf.

Basically mate, there will be a component on your car, be it MAF sensor, FPS, TCS.....that is running at upper/lower limits and when you fit the induction filter therefore drawing in MORE air, it causes the component to go outside its working limitations and the ECM picks this up and spits its dummy out. Its like i said to you, there is nothing your car or any car, for that matter, can do about PRE maf air. I guarantee you that if you were to drive somewhere like the swiss alps, when you start climbing up the mountain roads gaining altitude then the fault would re occur. By fitting the OE filter you are infact restricting the amount of air/O2 that enters the engine therefore, slowing down the flow to an amount that the car can comfortably cope with. When you remove the restriction all hell breaks loose because the car is not able to cope with the amount of air/O2 that is being combusted. It is trying to tell you that something on the car is not working properly and not that it doesn't like your choice of air filter! That would be nonsense and all aftermarket Air filter companies would have gone bust a long time ago if this was the case.

You have to look at all the components that govern the combustion process, then you will find the fault. Like is said, think outside the airbox (pardon the pun) and look at things like MAF, Fuel pressure sensor, O2 sensors, Catalyst efficiency, Turbo control solenoid, Vacuum pipes, manifold gaskets (especially the exhaust - Always coming loose and make a big difference to running), spark plugs and of course ETM.

I had a faulty MAF on my car from the day i bought it for 6 months! It was an intermittent fault and incredibly hard to diagnose. The more i started to mod the worse the symptoms got until eventually it was enough for the MAF to throw a wobbly and logged a code. One new MAF later and the car drove better and more responsive than it ever did from day 1. I'm not saying you have a MAF fault, i'm saying you gotta not get blinkered by the fact that when your Induction kit is on the car runs crap and when its not, its ok! That does not mean your air filter is rubbish or allowing too much air in, of course its allowing more air in. A K+N filter allows approx 40% MORE airflow. i can assure you that my SS race filter allows a heck of a lot more air in than that and my car runs absolutely sweet.

Hope this helps on your quest to fix the fault.

[silverhorse]

You have to look at all the components that govern the combustion process, then you will find the fault. Like is said, think outside the airbox (pardon the pun) and look at things like MAF, Fuel pressure sensor, O2 sensors, Catalyst efficiency, Turbo control solenoid, Vacuum pipes, manifold gaskets (especially the exhaust - Always coming loose and make a big difference to running), spark plugs and of course ETM.

I had a faulty MAF on my car from the day i bought it for 6 months! It was an intermittent fault and incredibly hard to diagnose. The more i started to mod the worse the symptoms got until eventually it was enough for the MAF to throw a wobbly and logged a code. One new MAF later and the car drove better and more responsive than it ever did from day 1. I'm not saying you have a MAF fault, i'm saying you gotta not get blinkered by the fact that when your Induction kit is on the car runs crap and when its not, its ok! That does not mean your air filter is rubbish or allowing too much air in, of course its allowing more air in. A K+N filter allows approx 40% MORE airflow. i can assure you that my SS race filter allows a heck of a lot more air in than that and my car runs absolutely sweet.

Hope this helps on your quest to fix the fault.

Looks like I have a busy weekend of ahead of me!!!


As you are aware Martyn (aka Volvokid) is having exactly the same issue as you. I have been speaking with him at length about his issue and trying to help him resolve and he is now having to take the car to MRG..

Martyn, if you take your car in, can you let me know what they say? Might give me a head start on where to look

[volvokid]

Yeah will let you know. The car is going in on Monday and they have it for 5 days

[AshT5]

i had same problem the vacuum hose that comes of the right hand side of the inlet manifold was loose, i also changed the air filter to the airbox without lid and it has ran fine.

[volvokid]

Rite all that was wrong with mine was a dirty throttle body, so give this a go, I can't believe this had cured the car.

[silverhorse]

Rite all that was wrong with mine was a dirty throttle body, so give this a go, I can't believe this had cured the car.
Cheers for that. Sounds like you needed a cheap fix what with all the other aggro:eye-poppi

What does the throttle body look like and where can I find it? I have never had to look at one in the past

[volvokid]

Pm leet5 he will tell u exactly

[LeeT5]

Cheers for that. Sounds like you needed a cheap fix what with all the other aggro:eye-poppi

What does the throttle body look like and where can I find it? I have never had to look at one in the past

Open the bonnet and remove the OTE pipe. This will give you more natural light and slightly more access. Using a 10mm 1/4" drive socket set, reach down between the radiator and the inlet manifold on the drivers side (access via the nearside) and feel for the 4 x 10mm bolts facing down towards the ground. You will see where the intake manifold connects to the ETM. Very easy to get to. DO NOT try to remove the ETM wiring harness. Its a pig to undo and if it breaks it will cost you dear!!!! BE WARNED!!!

Once unbolted, cut the cable tie holding the wiring harness near the starter motor and this will give you enough access to plonk it on the slam panel and clean. Clean only using carburetor cleaner.
Be careful of the thin metal gasket...do not bend or break it. Gently clean using a wire brush and carb' cleaner.

Fitting is the reverse.

Restart car and enjoy the new idle and much improved throttle response. Well, i did when i did mine last year.

[LeeT5]

Pm leet5 he will tell u exactly

No need...read my post......

[LeeT5]

Rite all that was wrong with mine was a dirty throttle body, so give this a go, I can't believe this had cured the car.

Not strictly true mate is it? As well as your ETM being dirty your MAF was also borderline/minimum readings for flow rate, so as was suggested, a new MAF should help improve the cars drive ability, especially under hard acceleration.

The journey certainly wasn't wasted as we had a bloody good slap up lunch!!! (thankyou)

Its just a shame your Bevel box packed up, but too be honest, your cars mileage was bang on for failure and if it didn't happen then it would of happened in the very near future.

Anyways, new box in, gear oils all new and a MTE remap! You will enjoy the journey home dude. Just think how much fuel you'll save now your wallet is a lot lighter :hidesbehi