850 t5 difficult to start when cold

[merc85]

Hi there,

Stumped with this one, Swapped a engine over on my 850 t5, with a known good one. Runs spot on, doest smoke or use oil or water. etc

1st thing when cold, car spins over and over doesnt try to start then on the 10th turn catches and fires up without splutter.
Could a fault with the charcol cansiter caurse a problem?

Changed Leads, Cam sensor, Flywheel sensor, Fuel pump relay, Checked earth straps, temp sensor,

Didnt wana start this morning, turned over and over so i stopped cranking. waited a second, pressed the throttle to the floor turned the car over and shes fired up 1st time??

REALLY confuesed?? any help?

When warm car drives faultlessly no cel light or codes

[M-R-P]

Do these things have an automatic choke? maybe running off the idle control valve? might be worth investigation. Also, does the outside temp sensor govern how the car fuels on startup?

[oblark]

I've taken my outside temp sensor off and the car started no problems this morning.

[M-R-P]

I've taken my outside temp sensor off and the car started no problems this morning.

Rules that out then :D

[merc85]

i think the fuel line must have a hole somewhere, to rule this out im gona put a non retrun valve in and see what happens

[merc85]

Just got error code 2-1-4 Cps but chaged this cam sensor?? any help???

[oblark]

Just got error code 2-1-4 Cps but chaged this cam sensor?? any help???

Just looked in the Haynes book of lies and 2-1-4 is the rpm sensor

[stribo]

Do these things have an automatic choke? maybe running off the idle control valve? might be worth investigation. Also, does the outside temp sensor govern how the car fuels on startup?
The ECU would get the indormation from the Intake Air Temperature sensor, which is on the air pipe before the throttle body. Might be worth checking.

[oblark]

The ECU would get the indormation from the Intake Air Temperature sensor, which is on the air pipe before the throttle body. Might be worth checking.

I dont think the 850 has a intake air temp sensor :confused:

[stribo]

I dont think the 850 has a intake air temp sensor :confused:
Probably not that then. :D

[claymore]

fuel pump?

[Kingsford G]

If yr temp gauge moves when ignition on on a cold start it is yr temp sender.Mine had thermostat stack open and bad t/sender,starts broom broom now.

[merc85]

Thanks for the reply,

Temp sendor nearly new, Walbro Genuine pump 8 months old,

Changed the Cam sensor, cleared the code and out the original one back in, No difference in starting but no more CEL light either.

Also changed the flywheel sensor, No difference in starting, perhaps slightly better.

I ran the engine for around 5 mins @ tick over and also a min at higher rpm. turned the engine off.

Depressed the schider valve @ the end of the rail, and it basically just gave one short spert of fuel and that was that.

Should after 5 mins of runing it spray out?? starting to think i have a fuel system leak NOT a electrical problem.

[merc85]

Well just a update, Live lol, Bin under the rear of the car, Chasing up my belief of a vac line leak.....

Found a Large Broken Vac line (vent) egr/charcoal canister line lol going to the Check Valve (Roll over) Valve, i have now joined the line with vac tubing as its only vented vapour that it carries, primed the rail turned her over and on the 4 stroke she fired up, done it twice all seems good. Will try in the moring when she is proper cold and see how she gets on. Fingers crossed ! :)

[merc85]

Back to square one, she didnt wanna start, ALso apears to back lack of fuel pressure in the rail!

Any ideas? maybe check valve in the fuel tank given up?

[oblark]

Have you tried taking the fuel line of the rail and cranking the engine over to how fast the fuel comes out ?

Just had a thought fuel filter ? when was it last changed ?

[Jamest5r]

Mine does the same, about 10 cranks in the very cold, if I add more fuel to the map it fires faster , in warm weather fires straight aeay, I'm guessing your not getting enough fuel. What is causing that though I have not idea. Maf maybe?

[mitchyboy01]

Try different fuel pressure regulator mate

[merc85]

Hi thanks for the reply,

The Pump isnt that old was a genuine walbro, Ive heard about the check valve being apart of the in tank assembly. Has anyone got a picture of this valve?

Injectors may be leaking as i had to remove them when changing the manifolds so certainly will look there. Also i have a spare fuel pressure reg i may fit that also.

Will keep you posted , thanks again

[merc85]

Have you tried taking the fuel line of the rail and cranking the engine over to how fast the fuel comes out ?

Just had a thought fuel filter ? when was it last changed ?

Not long ago buddy, this has all kicked off since changing the lump, and manifolds so ive must have disturb something,really thought the broken vac line was it :( may end up breaking the bloody thing if it carries on much longer

[Kingsford G]

Could that be immobolizer or ecu connection?

[960kg]

I would start at square one and make sure you have Volvo plugs fitted.

Premuim fuel is always harder to ignite when in a cold situation!

Seeing as your pump is new and the filter ok i would next go for the Engine Temperature Sensor £35
fitted under the thermostat in the block, if faulty you won`t get the correct amount of fuel whether hot or cold.

Yes you can change the FPR on the fuel rail but this usually causes bad hot starts and not cold ones as the diaphragm which faulters lets more fuel in
so an easy cold start but not so when hot. For a quick check on the condition of the FPR disconnect the vacuum pipe at the tree by the throttle housing going to the FPR
and smell the end or taste it or even blow and suck in it, if you sense petrol or no holding any pressure then the valve has gone and will need replacing.

With these problems you tend not to get a cel light or error codes.

Good Luck.

[merc85]

Could that be immobolizer or ecu connection?

Only has issues when cold, and the alarm has bin takern off

[merc85]

I would start at square one and make sure you have Volvo plugs fitted.

Premuim fuel is always harder to ignite when in a cold situation!

Seeing as your pump is new and the filter ok i would next go for the Engine Temperature Sensor £35
fitted under the thermostat in the block, if faulty you won`t get the correct amount of fuel whether hot or cold.

Yes you can change the FPR on the fuel rail but this usually causes bad hot starts and not cold ones as the diaphragm which faulters lets more fuel in
so an easy cold start but not so when hot. For a quick check on the condition of the FPR disconnect the vacuum pipe at the tree by the throttle housing going to the FPR
and smell the end or taste it or even blow and suck in it, if you sense petrol or no holding any pressure then the valve has gone and will need replacing.

With these problems you tend not to get a cel light or error codes.

Good Luck.

Thanks bud, the temp gauge is all good, so is the stat, plugs are good, Cap and Rotor are worn but surly it would miss fire when being driven or under load?

Goin to have a look at the injectors and FPR tonight, may fit cap n rotor.

Will check fuel lines by the tank as they all seem good at the engine.

[Kingsford G]

Would be good to have a fuel pressure gauge to diagnose the fuel supply good or bad.

[merc85]

Would be good to have a fuel pressure gauge to diagnose the fuel supply good or bad.

Havent got one im afraid :(

[nottsgreent5]

Mite sound abit strange but if you have a spare starter motor try that had a problem with a mates t5 few years ago changed all the sensors injectors the lot and that was doing similar to yours as i was clutching at straws i changed the starter just to rule it out an it cured the problem as to why i do not know lol

[merc85]

Update, Fuel Reg was faulty as i sucked on the vac line and got mouth full of petrol, changed it for a new one and Bit the bullet Bought a new cap and rotor, She fired up striagjht away, Yippie i thought, went for a short drive no miss fires or nowt, parked up went into a shop, came out 5 mins later turned the key and YES you guessed it simply wouldnt start, 30mins later she fired up! got her back home turn it off, try to start it Nothing, just turns over. Took a PLUG out and it had no spark then as i was cranking it the plug sparked and she started!

STILL NO CODES but seems now heat related, when she's hot doesnt start. NO SPARK NO CEL

Changed:
CAP
ROTOR
KNOCK SENSOR'S
CAM SESNOR
CRANK SENSOR
COIL AND MODULE
fuel reg
AND KING LEAD
Now thinking ECU, gonna try the ecu from the Gul and see if she still play's up, if she does it's getting broken.

[Kingsford G]

Don`t u dare to brake her :insane:

[merc85]

Don`t u dare to brake her :insane:

Trust me it will happen, Found a old bill in the "Service history 2005 mileage 108k" Engine cutting out Fault found to be wiring to ecu, Really thinking its a Ecu or Wiring to the ecu fault that being the case i'm going to break it.

[960kg]

Update, Fuel Reg was faulty as i sucked on the vac line and got mouth full of petrol, changed it for a new one and Bit the bullet Bought a new cap and rotor, She fired up striagjht away

Forgot to say beware about a mouthful of premium grade Ha! ha!

This is a quick useful check for the FPR....it must of been well gone and flooding the engine as usually they affect bad hot starts?

Did you replace with the correct brand new one from Volvo?... as if you didn`t a very small split in it may be still giving hot start probs. Just a shot....

[merc85]

Changed knock sensor, car diffinalty has a cam sensor / wiring /ecu fault, its ha s intermitant spark as soon as the plugs fire the car starts imediatly, but can take 30 cranks to make it spark!

Gonna try another ecu and check contnuity at cam sensor, looking like a breaker to me shame nice car. :(

[Harvey]

Battery voltage when starter running low ?.
Try starting car with jump leads connected to a second car engine running on second car.

[merc85]

Uprated bosch battery spins over easy :(

[960kg]

Just trying to help you not break it ....although this Vadis Bulletin for the 850 says a different engine it is still the 20 valve

Don`t forget it was written when the car was new!!

But as you replaced the engine with another known one that is good you don`t know how it was driven?

I am just clutching at straws for you but if it`s in the Volvo bulletin sheet then it must be real.....

Of course although it states Champion plugs i expect now in 2012 the exact Volvo plug for this engine should be used to avoid problems.

[Jamest5r]

Ok as your into the the long shot territory here's one for you, check the connectors between the cam and crank sensors, it may well be that the connections on the loom side are faulty so no matter how many cam/crank sensors you change you will always have the same fault, this happened to me and took a looooong time to work out, i cut the faulty connector off the loom and wired one from a scrap car and fired 1st time everytime.

[960kg]

Uprated bosch battery spins over easy :(

Linked to my previous post about the carbon etc. in a not known engine you replaced with......

One common cause of non starting with the 960 if it has been just local drives, shopping car, is the carbon build up on the valve stems
and this stops the valves closing properly so lower compression and non starting when cold with the engine spinning endlessly.

This 6 cylinder engine is the same white block as ours so the same problems will apply.

People talk of the "Italian Tune up" and think that it just means ragging the poor engines nuts off but this is not the case
and is a real means to preventing problems.

The proper definition is to run the engine in the appropriate gear to give you 4500revs and run for 5 minutes, motorway is best, and at these revs the valves begin
to turn in there guides and this cleans them and does prevent them sticking due to carbon build up.

Also they recommend to use a 10W 40 oil on an older engine for better compression.

These are all readings that i have learnt through owning Volvo`s for the last 16/17 years so owners have had these type of problems to sort out.

I know all these things seem like myths but when you have done all to your motor and it still repels then perhaps some not so common procedures can be tried.

As Jamest5r said your in long shot territory, his one about the connector sounds a good chance.

[Kingsford G]

That engine is from Gavs old 855 and he rebuilt it port polishing the head.I can`t c any carbon built up in about 200 miles he done unless 1 night someone by mistake took a cr@p in his inlet pipe.

[960kg]

Needn`t of wasted my time then!

[stribo]

Needn`t of wasted my time then!Hardly a waste of time mate, even if it's not applicable to Gav's problem, could be a big help to someone else with the same problem.:B_thumb:

[Kingsford G]

Hardly a waste of time mate, even if it's not applicable to Gav's problem, could be a big help to someone else with the same problem.:B_thumb:


Totally agree.U never know whats round the corner so any knowledge is a knowledge,comes handy anytime.

[Kingsford G]

Needn`t of wasted my time then!

Sorry if made u feel that way but its not.

[merc85]

Right a Update, car has obsolutly no spark, Have check continity today and All the sensors are functioning correctly.

Traced the cam and flywheel sensors all the way back to the ecu, And they test the same, The ecu has bin swapped also.
That means the fault is fuse board side, something that im not going to entertain, 1 ive lost interest in this Car as i cant trust it Electrically wise, and too have a shortage of money,

So, Once ive decided what car if any i will be buying she will be getting broken. Very sad as the engine was runnig the best shed ever had done and the gearbox so sweet.

Watch this space :(

[claymore]

Don't give up on it mate, probably a stupid question, have you checked the relays above the radiator?

[WOODY T5]

Right a Update, car has obsolutly no spark, Have check continity today and All the sensors are functioning correctly.

Traced the cam and flywheel sensors all the way back to the ecu, And they test the same, The ecu has bin swapped also.
That means the fault is fuse board side, something that im not going to entertain, 1 ive lost interest in this Car as i cant trust it Electrically wise, and too have a shortage of money,

So, Once ive decided what car if any i will be buying she will be getting broken. Very sad as the engine was runnig the best shed ever had done and the gearbox so sweet.

Watch this space :(all that hard work Gav don't give up sure something can be done or someone out there can help?

[Kingsford G]

As above Gav,it is a lot of hard work been put in her.I know an old boy electrician who used to work for T&M`s where we did dyno test who is cheap on labour as he`s retired.Actually he`s coming to mine on tuesday I can speak to him if u want to look at yrs.

[stribo]

It would be a shame to see this car get broken:


http://youtu.be/6TrwVVUvr8A

[shepbomb]

Gav, you have put so much time and work into the car it would be a massive shame give it a couple of days and you will be feeling the love again ;-)

[merc85]

Thanks stribo, that vid means alot, just put another starter motor on her she fired up , but through a code 4-1-1 as forgot to plug tps sensor back in.. tried again but now no spark. she may have flooded i dont know , i just dont. will have another go in the morning, left batt unplugged.

Not looking good, thanks to nottsgreen it was worth a punt,

Calymore, only swapped the small grey 40amp one, non of the rest.......?

The car has skint me out really loosing the will to carry on with it. :(

[stribo]

Perhaps you'll prefer this vid, where I let you win. ;)


http://youtu.be/3LVR_FHuzbo

[merc85]

Perhaps you'll prefer this vid, where I let you win. ;)


http://youtu.be/3LVR_FHuzbo

Thats was the inspiration for me to do all that head work, and the engine and gearbox change , shame be the looks of things i §§§§§§ed that up to :( can only think a snagged the Loom or summit. Shes a sorry state atm, Ecu just sitting there with all the loom hanging,

New meanig to the phrase "Stand alone ecu" lol u gotta laugh aint ya?? :(

[merc85]

I have zero power the ignition coil, Dont know what wire to connect a 12v to enable t to spark.

If anyone has a Manual t5 estate for sale 850 or v70 (non me7) let me know. this car will be broken when a replacement is found. :(

[martybelfastt5]

updated post on voc thread gav

[merc85]

How did he get around it?

[theflyingbrick]

oh dear :(

[960kg]

updated post on voc thread gav

Also in reply to your VOC post if this is done to immob the immobiliser part then it says it can be started!

Can`t lose anything by trying

[merc85]

Also in reply to your VOC post if this is done to immob the immobiliser part then it says it can be started!

Can`t lose anything by trying

Where are these relays located bud? in the fuse box offside bottom of windscreen??

[960kg]

It doesn`t say, but i believe it is under the dash and to the right of ignition switch?

[960kg]

I found where it is......

[V70 Graham]

Gav, just my 2 pence worth.....if you can't find the source of your problem, would it be such a bad idea to get a dealer to loook at it ?
Not being funny but they have all the gear and could probably at least diagnose the fault for about £50 or so, then you would at least know what you were looking at to get the car running again, might even be a cheap fix too !

Good luck with whatever you do, just think really hard before breaking.

[merc85]

Gav, just my 2 pence worth.....if you can't find the source of your problem, would it be such a bad idea to get a dealer to loook at it ?
Not being funny but they have all the gear and could probably at least diagnose the fault for about £50 or so, then you would at least know what you were looking at to get the car running again, might even be a cheap fix too !

Good luck with whatever you do, just think really hard before breaking.

Simply havent got the money to get a dealer to look at it, And also the closest one in 20 miles away and that means towing it.
Spent so much time money and effort on the car really cant be arsed with it. Engine ran so smooth and powerfull didnt even get to boost her hard as was runing her in.

Think the car has more wiring issues , has done in the past im not going to be changing looms as you dont know how good the next looms going tobe, pritty much decided to break her,

As soon as ive found a replacement i will know what parts will be avalible, rest assured tho peeps will be getting Good quality parts as ive always looked after my car.

[merc85]

Also in reply to your VOC post if this is done to immob the immobiliser part then it says it can be started!

Can`t lose anything by trying

Ok car wont start again so gonna give this a try but i dont understand, Do i remove relay 210/211 and bridge it, Then Remove the single 210? or do i just remove the relay 210/211 and bridge it? or leave it out altogether?

[960kg]

Ok car wont start again so gonna give this a try but i dont understand, Do i remove relay 210/211 and bridge it, Then Remove the single 210? or do i just remove the relay 210/211 and bridge it? or leave it out altogether?

Ignore 211

Remove relay 210

Bridge terminals on the base plinth on the fuse box between 50E and 50F and that`s it.

Picture of Relay 210 Volvo Starter Relay Switch is a special Volvo part which the dealer uses instead of a piece of wire to
bridge the terminals.

Road Recovery vans can use this method when the owner has lost keys etc. as it bypasses the whole immob part of the ignition.

[merc85]

I Havent got rely 210, will try it anyway and let you know. thanks for the help.

[960kg]

I Havent got rely 210, will try it anyway and let you know. thanks for the help.

This pic. is for 1994 Manual so it should be yours unless maybe auto is different?

On the car it shows where it is as left hand drive so we are opposite side!


Don`t worry about answering as i just post things to help and maybe for you to check.
I think you will let all know when the motor works ok.

[merc85]

Thanks 960kg, Have tried the above and car deffo wont start, Car will now be broken once replacement has bin found as it no long starts

[merc85]

Dam and blast got bored tonight, so decided to investigate, retrieved cam sensor code and then cleared it, car didnt start so took the ecu out again inspected the wiring, all seems ok although the comman earth may have bin repaired at some point. after messing about with the cam sensor pins checking resistance to the ecu which all apeared ok i tried to start the car.....

Yep you guessed it she bloody started! wtf ????? any ideas????

[960kg]

Got some more pics. for you to try unless you have done them all as it says??

Some remarks are obvious to you as you know it won`t start, but at least you may find something from them.

One pic. tells you what terminals to the ECU to check from the CMP

See the earth hidden under the coil.

[merc85]

Have done :( Getting crank sensor fault code now, think all the loom is toasted , May have found a replacement car

[Nealevo]

Have done :( Getting crank sensor fault code now, think all the loom is toasted , May have found a replacement car
Good luck with that, I hope it's not that orange t5 on flea bay as I spoke to him yesterday and within a 3 minute conversation he changed his mind 3 times about things and mods.... And I can't get a HPI report for it.

[The Flying Moose]

Im going to throw a wild one out there but worth a blast if nothing else.

I remember there being a common fault with the fuel pump relay in the 850's which as described caused starting problems until at one point the relay clicked and switched over and the car would start... it was a problem I had on the T5-R so I changed the relay and it solved the problem.

[Kingsford G]

Get a new loom mate,its less work than chnging an engine.U know u can do it.Look up for volvo brakers.

[merc85]

Good luck with that, I hope it's not that orange t5 on flea bay as I spoke to him yesterday and within a 3 minute conversation he changed his mind 3 times about things and mods.... And I can't get a HPI report for it.

no bud its not

[merc85]

Im going to throw a wild one out there but worth a blast if nothing else.

I remember there being a common fault with the fuel pump relay in the 850's which as described caused starting problems until at one point the relay clicked and switched over and the car would start... it was a problem I had on the T5-R so I changed the relay and it solved the problem.

Changed wasnt the problem :(

[merc85]

Get a new loom mate,its less work than chnging an engine.U know u can do it.Look up for volvo brakers.

try finding a obd1 loom

[Jamest5r]

try finding a obd1 loom


Try finding another 850 as good as your's :)

[smithy]

try finding a obd1 loom

Put a obd2 loom and change the whole lot job done and then now probs

[merc85]

Put a obd2 loom and change the whole lot job done and then now probs

abs is completely different, ash tray different alarm imob all different,

[Kingsford G]

try finding a obd1 loom

http://www.volvospares-uk.com/breaking.htm
http://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showthread.php?t=148974
http://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showthread.php?t=157068

[Jamest5r]

You tried Salvo's for the loom?

[960kg]

Been looking at Engine Harness and part numbers differ between 4 and 5 door!! why?...who knows!

You have to keep an eye on chassis numbers

[theflyingbrick]

Good luck with that, I hope it's not that orange t5 on flea bay as I spoke to him yesterday and within a 3 minute conversation he changed his mind 3 times about things and mods.... And I can't get a HPI report for it.


i asked him whats been done to get it to 300bhp.........he said i dont know where just traders!!! lmao lovely colour though :)

[merc85]

Try finding another 850 as good as your's :)

YOU! have given me the last bit of inspiration tonight and may have just saved her, I have Hard wired the Cam and Crank sensors to the ecu, and she starts as she should. Ive tidy it all up and left her outside for the night.

If she starts in the morning after being left out all night i'm going to run her about over xmas and see how it is.

If she doesnt start I will continue to break her. Sorry if this has put peeps out who have asked for bits but i really dont wont to break this car! REST assured she will be broken if she dont start in the morning. and mats and panels etc which peeps are intersted in will still be up for sale.

I Promise i will update this Thread at 9.00am tomorrow so peeps know

So James you may have just saved her ;)

[V70 Graham]

I Promise i will update this Thread at 9.00am tomorrow so peeps know

So James you may have just saved her ;)

I'll be logging on at 0900 Gav, fingers crossed that she starts, NO ONE on the forum wants this car broken mate.

If she does start, and it was down to James, we all owe him a pint !

[Harvey]

Just to ask have you ran a meter ,ecu plug to engine plugs is there a high ohms reading.
Also are any of the pins / connectors in the plugs look bent damaged,have you opened up the loom the full length as they some times fit splices inside it can be a problem if water gets in ,was it left outside with bonnet up water gets in then gets corrosion in then freezes and parts the copper strands in the wires.
I do hope you can fix it ,as it's a nice motor.

[Kingsford G]

Hoping to have a good start toz wiv the good news

[stribo]

I'll be logging on at 0900 Gav, fingers crossed that she starts, NO ONE on the forum wants this car broken mate.

If she does start, and it was down to James, we all owe him a pint !

If you do that, you won't get to the services for 1 PM :P

[V70 Graham]

If you do that, you won't get to the services for 1 PM :P

I will.....I'll stop Nr High Wycombe and take a look on my iphone lol

[merc85]

Just to ask have you ran a meter ,ecu plug to engine plugs is there a high ohms reading.
Also are any of the pins / connectors in the plugs look bent damaged,have you opened up the loom the full length as they some times fit splices inside it can be a problem if water gets in ,was it left outside with bonnet up water gets in then gets corrosion in then freezes and parts the copper strands in the wires.
I do hope you can fix it ,as it's a nice motor.

Answer : Yep

Pins: Pushed them all up in the connectors tbs, Have done away with the Cam n Crank wiring as this apeared to be shot. I've wired them directly to the ecu including the pulsing lead to the coil. She started tonight the best she ever has done. finger's crossed.

This car was scope last weak by a prof auto electrician. No fault found, other than a hazie crank sensor, This has bin replaced, and hard wired to ecu since. ive left no stone unturned.

[stribo]

I will.....I'll stop Nr High Wycombe and take a look on my iphone lol
You'll be leaving soon then, if you want to be at High Wycombe by 9.:D

[merc85]

Well, She has sat outside all night and its been chucking it down to. Went out side started her up... She took around 7 turns

So, i'm going to give her a reprieve run her about over xmas and NOT break her just yet we will see how it goes. Sorry to all those who were interested in parts.

[Kingsford G]

Don`t be sorry Gav.I`d b gutted to have parts from her where is some don`t care.Glad she`s on the road:B_thumb:

[V70 Graham]

Good news Gav, there is obviously something still not quite right, glad your sticking with her though.

[stribo]

Well, She has sat outside all night and its been chucking it down to. Went out side started her up... She took around 7 turns

So, i'm going to give her a reprieve run her about over xmas and NOT break her just yet we will see how it goes. Sorry to all those who were interested in parts.

Good news mate, stick with it, you'll get there.


Good news Gav, there is obviously something still not quite right, glad your sticking with her though.

How's High Wycombe? :lol:

[V70 Graham]

How's High Wycombe? :lol:

Dunno, left there hours ago !

[merc85]

Well, She has sat outside all night and its been chucking it down to. Went out side started her up... She took around 7 turns

So, i'm going to give her a reprieve run her about over xmas and NOT break her just yet we will see how it goes. Sorry to all those who were interested in parts.

Thats 7 cranks/revolutions which she has always done so hopefully all sorted, obviously the slight raise in compression wont help either.
fingers crossed

[Jamest5r]

YOU! have given me the last bit of inspiration tonight and may have just saved her, I have Hard wired the Cam and Crank sensors to the ecu, and she starts as she should. Ive tidy it all up and left her outside for the night.

If she starts in the morning after being left out all night i'm going to run her about over xmas and see how it is.

If she doesnt start I will continue to break her. Sorry if this has put peeps out who have asked for bits but i really dont wont to break this car! REST assured she will be broken if she dont start in the morning. and mats and panels etc which peeps are intersted in will still be up for sale.

I Promise i will update this Thread at 9.00am tomorrow so peeps know

So James you may have just saved her ;)

Think your being a bit over kind there mate but ill take it lol :)

There are very few sorted 850's around nowaday's and im a big fan of them so hate seeing them broken, YOU done the hard work we on here just threw some idea's out there and gave some morel support.

Think 960kg deserves a mention learn't alot from him during this thread :)

[merc85]

960kg certainly has helped, Not sure if the car is right or not tbh, Although she is starting but doesnt seem much of a pattern to how many times it takes to crank and fire. Only time will tell i suppose im leaving it outside in the bad weather to see what happens i need this car to be reliable and trustwrothy as ive lost all confindence in her.

[Kingsford G]

Just chill,give more time to yr family,if she is ok than great if not wiv a fresh mind after the new year get her sorted.U`ve seen how much rubbish ones out there as no 1 selling a good one.

[theflyingbrick]

im glad its sorted gav....if it helps my dads never starts the same way twice,i reckon along as it starts then sod it lol just enjoy driving it and dont stress too much about the crank count ;)