Car won't start.....beginning to look expensive !

[V70 Graham]

Just to let you all know I've been having problems with the car this week, went out on Wednesday to start her up.....turns over fine just didn't want to fire.

Did the ususl, called RAC who sent a guy who was obviously knocking off as he simply spent 10 mins checking fuses (I'm not by any means a mechanic but even I'd already managed that) and turning the car over before asking where I wanted it towing.
I declined his offer but agreed I'd call back if I wanted it taking to a garage.

Yesterday was spent with a (cheap local) auto-electrician checking the ususl, fuel pump (ok) fuses (ok) when he had finished he said I had a problem with the immobiliser.

Fast forward to today and had out a (bit more expensive/not so local) auto-electrician who specialises in immobiliser faults, he came with all the gear, plugged it in and came up with the following.....

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y183/graham1326/IMG_0054.jpg

He also said that the ECM 'could not be found' (whatever that means), and said it could either be a wiring fault or the ECM could need re-flashing.

Have any of you ever had anything like this before ?

The car is now booked in to be collected by the RAC Monday at 0830 and taken to Carpenters, an Independent Volvo Specialist (est 1934) who say they should be able to tell me what's wrong by Tuesday lunchtime.

http://www.carpenters.co.uk/

As I'm a glutton for punishment I am offering a very small and extremely cheap Volvo related prize to whoever comes up with the nearest diagnosis/cost for this to be fixed.....over to you !

[T5frankie]

try a different ecu mate

[V70 Graham]

try a different ecu mate

That's one of the first things they are going to try.....if they have one knocking around.

[V70 Graham]

Ooops.....forgot the most important thing.....

Another big 'Thank you' to M-R-P who has been a great help so far with suggestions/texts/calls/pictures and videos of what to look for and where to find it.

Cheers mate, hopefully not too long before I can get down to see you and collect that steering wheel :eclipsee_

[smithy]

What year is your car mate because if its drive by wire then the throttle body sensor nackered or the tb could do with cleaning .

[V70 Graham]

What year is your car mate because if its drive by wire then the throttle body sensor nackered or the tb could do with cleaning .

It's a 1998 ME7 it's a new suggestion that the throttle body sensor could be the cause.

[oblark]

I had a fault many years ago the old girl wouldn`t start and called a local garage to find the fault, pluged his bit of kit and said the ECU is f##ked because he couldn`t connect to it.

So I called out a local indy volvo garage and he pin pointed the fault to the MAF which when changed the old girl started :)

I think the your indy volvo garage should pin point the problem.

[M-R-P]

Shame I couldn't be more help. I doubt it would be the throttle as there would be warning signs and it would still start.
And I'm not sure if you can play swap the ecu with ME7 as its coded to everything else in the car.

Fingers crossed tho mate, she'll be in good hands and hopefully there'll be a quick and not-top-expensive resolution.

Keep us posted mate.

[V70 Graham]

Shame I couldn't be more help. I doubt it would be the throttle as there would be warning signs and it would still start.
And I'm not sure if you can play swap the ecu with ME7 as its coded to everything else in the car.

Fingers crossed tho mate, she'll be in good hands and hopefully there'll be a quick and not-top-expensive resolution.

Keep us posted mate.

It is, but you can reprogramme them takes 2-3 hours I've been told.

[Blackdog]

Ignition ring antenna.

About 30 quid from the dealer

[V70 Graham]

Ignition ring antenna.

About 30 quid from the dealer

Nope, all checked and working fine, immobiliser is seeing the keys, just not communicating with ECM.

[Dangerous Dave]

Found this on VOC

http://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showthread.php?t=145555

[deathrider311271]

if its the ECU thats at fault get a second hand one doesnt matter if its auto or manual, Volvo will reflash it with original software for £78 all in. As some one already said if it was the anything to do with the throttle you would have codes and a light dash, your ETS and ENGINE lights would be on.

[V70 Graham]

Found this on VOC

http://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showthread.php?t=145555

Secondly, there is fuel getting in as the plugs were soaking when removed (and changed just in case). Does this point away from the immobiliser? can anyone tell me?

The reason I ask is that whilst my small OBDII code reader did not pull off a
P1670 code (only a P0300 misfire code), the code reader at the garage (Smartbox) pulled off the following two codes:

At 5;21pm - TOTAL CODES 001
IMM 321 "Initiation signal from engine control module (ECM), signal missing"

Then on a second try at 5:26 - TOTAL CODES 001
ECM-720A "Immobilizer communication"

The good news is that the mechanic wasnt convinced and said that sounded like the engine was just flooded and decided to try tow starting it - IT WORKED! after switching off it restarted with the key ok.



Now this IS interesting.....

The RAC guy asked when I last started the car and for how long I left it running, I had simply started it and turned it staright off, he also reconed it was flodded but couldnt get it going again by turning it over.....I've also heard these engines don't like being started and turned off straight away.....just gotta find someone to tow start me to find out !

[Kingsford G]

Sorry to hear that,hope it won`t cost too much.Have u tried taking ecu out and plugging back in again in case if some connection failure.

[smithy]

If the car is flooded take the spark plugs out and leave the car for an hour or too and then put them back in

[V70 Graham]

If the car is flooded take the spark plugs out and leave the car for an hour or too and then put them back in

Thats the direction I'm gonna tell the garage to head in on Monday, I'm sure it's something to do with me flooding the engine.....no time to try myself, back on the Buses at 0500 tomorrow :(

[t5steve]

hope you get it sorted...........................without losing an arm or a leg

[M-R-P]

hope you get it sorted...........................without losing an arm or a leg

He's already been down cash converters but they don't accept internal organs :hilarious

[Harvey]

Have you looked at fuse 11c/4 is ok
fuse11c/8. Ok these are immobiliser central electrical fuses

[V70 Graham]

Have you looked at fuse 11c/4 is ok
fuse11c/8. Ok these are immobiliser central electrical fuses

Already checked the fuses mate but thanks for the input.

[V70 Graham]

He's already been down cash converters but they don't accept internal organs :hilarious

.....they didn't offer me a lot for my EXTERNAL organs either !

[oblark]

.....they didn't offer me a lot for my EXTERNAL organs either !

At least you have some ............. as M-R-P mrs has his :lol:

[M-R-P]

At least you have some ............. as M-R-P mrs has his :lol:

Lmfao! Nice one Rob :hilarious

[960kg]

Secondly, there is fuel getting in as the plugs were soaking when removed (and changed just in case). Does this point away from the immobiliser? can anyone tell me?

The reason I ask is that whilst my small OBDII code reader did not pull off a
P1670 code (only a P0300 misfire code), the code reader at the garage (Smartbox) pulled off the following two codes:

At 5;21pm - TOTAL CODES 001
IMM 321 "Initiation signal from engine control module (ECM), signal missing"

Then on a second try at 5:26 - TOTAL CODES 001
ECM-720A "Immobilizer communication"

The good news is that the mechanic wasnt convinced and said that sounded like the engine was just flooded and decided to try tow starting it - IT WORKED! after switching off it restarted with the key ok.



Now this IS interesting.....

The RAC guy asked when I last started the car and for how long I left it running, I had simply started it and turned it staright off, he also reconed it was flodded but couldnt get it going again by turning it over.....I've also heard these engines don't like being started and turned off straight away.....just gotta find someone to tow start me to find out !

This happened to me with my T4 it was flooded charged my battery right up for a day took the plugs out also for a day to dry out the cylinders and it started when all back together easily.

It`s called "Lanwmower Syndrome" ....no joke.....you move the car to get the lawmower out for the lawn then you can`t start it again when you want things all back in the garage etc.

A battery in excellent condition seems to overide the condition and it will start.

[V70 Graham]

Right, latest update......(don't get excited though)

Had a call from Wayne (Judgeninja) last night and he very kindly offered to come up and have a look at the car for me this afternoon, he took out the plugs and to be honest they weren't that wet, he checked a lot of other connections but really I am no further forward, it seems as though the immobiliser is not letting the car fire, though this could also be no compression due to 'lawnmower syndrome'

Anne has told me enough is enough and not to worry/guess any more tonight, the car will be at the garage tomorrow and they can try and get it going, I am working 0900 till 2100 Mon-Thu this week, I just hope I can go pick her up (the car not Anne) on Friday in time for the 'Softies' meet on Sunday.

A big thank you to everyone who has contributed to this thred so far, it's not nice having a sick Volvo :(

M-R-P thanks for keeping my spirits up with texts, and Wayne I hope I have to give you a £1 next sunday, thankx mate.

[T5frankie]

Right, latest update......(don't get excited though)

Had a call from Wayne (Judgeninja) last night and he very kindly offered to come up and have a look at the car for me this afternoon, he took out the plugs and to be honest they weren't that wet, he checked a lot of other connections but really I am no further forward, it seems as though the immobiliser is not letting the car fire, though this could also be no compression due to 'lawnmower syndrome'

Anne has told me enough is enough and not to worry/guess any more tonight, the car will be at the garage tomorrow and they can try and get it going, I am working 0900 till 2100 Mon-Thu this week, I just hope I can go pick her up (the car not Anne) on Friday in time for the 'Softies' meet on Sunday.

A big thank you to everyone who has contributed to this thred so far, it's not nice having a sick Volvo :(

M-R-P thanks for keeping my spirits up with texts, and Wayne I hope I have to give you a £1 next sunday, thankx mate.

i'm seeing the older our cars get the more ill they get, like everytime i use mine something else crops up lol

[stribo]

I hope it's a simple fix for the garage Graham, and not too expensive.

[M-R-P]

Just found this on brickboard.com...

I stumbled upon a fix today that is easier to do, less stressful on the car, more environmentally correct and easier on neighbor relations that some of the methods I've read about. I'll explain below what I did and why I think it worked for me. Maybe one of the experts on this board will reply whether this makes sense or I was just lucky. Luck is often more desirable than skill.

Background: LMS is a nostart condition. It occurs after a stone cold Volvo 5 cylinder engine has been run just long enough to back the car out of the garage in order to use one' lawn mower (30 seconds or so). The theory is that the car's computer commands a rich fuel mixture when the engine is cold. When the cold engine is turned off, the gasoline from the rich fuel mixture dilutes the oil that helps form a tight seal between the piston rings and the cylinder wall. The result is insufficient compression for the engine to start.

My son's '98 S70 developed LMS after he cranked it cold and moved it to the other side of the driveway so his car no longer blocked my Saab 9000. LMS was discovered the next day when his car wouldn't start. The car has 111K miles and no previous LMS problems. I fixed it 3 days later after doing enough research to decide that LMS was the likely problem.

Here's how:
1. Press the gas pedal to the floor. Keep it there while doing step 2.
2. Crank the engine for 30 seconds, which is long enough for the oil pressure idiot light to turn off (the ambient temp was about 70 degrees when I did this). Cranking 30 seconds pumps motor oil through the engine. But the oil needs a few minutes to do its piston ring magic.
3. Wait 15 minutes. I waited to let the starter motor cool, and only realized after the fact that waiting allowed the oil to fix the compression problem.
4. Press the pedal to the floor and crank. I did this thinking I would crank another 30 seconds before letting the starter motor cool again. To my surprise and delight it fired up almost immediately on all cylinders.
5. Back off the throttle and let it run a minute or so at 2,000 rpm. It idled normally after that. This step may not be necessary, but I wanted to be sure the engine wouldn't die.
6. Go for a short drive to warm up the engine before turning it off. Then restart it for the sake of your peace of mind. I drove until the temperature gauge rose to about 3 o'clock.

[oblark]

If Graham`s car has LMS then pouring a small amount of oil down the spark plug holes would bring the compression up and the car would start.

As I`m off to Gothenberg in the small hours of the morning for a few days keep me posted on the outcome :wink:

[JUDGENINJA]

Interesting, in all my years of moving my 850 I've never had this syndrome.. Or even until this evening I had never read how to correct the issue.

We did give the car a bit of stick to try to get it to fire, and the engine did seem to be turning over quite fast, but there was no smell of fuel on the two spark plugs we removed. As a result we sort of determined that possibly the injectors and spark plugs were not firing. I have one of those sparking units that sits on top of a spark plug earthed using a screw driver.

I'll be watching the final prognosis with interest..

[y2blade]

Fliipinheck Graham sorry to read this lot :(
I Can't offer any advise other than what has already been tried.....Here's hoping for a wallet friendly outcome.

[Chad]

i had a similar problem with mine...

it was the immobiliser control box that sits on the clocks under the top dash.

[960kg]

I am not a one for hanging on a starter with a modern motor as if our cars don`t start quick there is something wrong, with my T4 the plugs were soaking wet when taken out and so were the combustion chambers, the reason i let to dry out all day was the fact that holding open the throttle is suppose to do the opposite of an N/A engine with a carburretor.

If flooded on a carb. unit you open the throttle WOT and let more air in to dilute the petrol to start but with an ECU and MAF engine the MAF will say put more petrol in as the throttle is WOT so you should not open the throttle.

It says this in the handbook...don`t touch the throttle when starting... it is very difficult not to as we are creatures of habit so i always keep away from it and have no trouble starting since even on my V70 T5. But now i have two batteries, a new one and another always fully charged just in case.

These modern motors are very battery reliant with all the gismo`s and sensors etc. and i remember with my GDI once i arrived home and the dash lights all started flashing like christmas trees and wondered what the hell was happening. I wound up the electric window and the engine stopped while doing so. Tried to start it but battery knackered. The alternator had packed up just like that.

The joy`s of motoring.

[V70 Graham]

Thanks guys, car was picked up this morning.....just waiting for the phone call.

[JUDGENINJA]

Any news....?

[Dangerous Dave]

Yeah come on Graham the suspense is killing me :)

[iancho]

i'm seeing the older our cars get the more ill they get, like everytime i use mine something else crops up lol

very true frank, scares the pants off me. Last year my garage told me to scrap mine, I refused too coz of all the money i had spent on it and had whatever job it needed doing done. But maybe one day the Bill will be to big to justify.

[M-R-P]

Any news....?


Yeah come on Graham the suspense is killing me :)

Won't be long now... he's due home from work in a sec...

[shaun850]

Still waiting ;)

[JamesT5]

At least it's not the fuel pump or sender unit. Good luck with it, unfortunately electronics are not my strong point...

Regards

James

[V70 Graham]

Right, I'm home.....

Car was collected at 0900 this morning and taken to the garage, around 1430 I had a phone call.

They had checked for flooding and found no sign this was my problem, the compression was good, so they plugged in the code reader and found the 'ECM not found' code which I had been told about previously.

They suggested flashing the ECM I had, cheapest option, and so thats what they did.....no luck.

They are now 99% sure it is the actual ECM, and they have given me 2 choices, as they do not have and cannot source a reconditioned unit I can either send mine away to be tested and possibly fixed (approx 2 weeks) at a cost of £400.00 or go for a new unit from Volvo at £700.00 :yikes:

Obviously whichever way I go I will need to flash the new unit as well.

BUT.....take a look at this (last post)

http://volvoforums.com/forum/volvo-v70-13/motor-spins-will-not-start-55375/

NOW what should I do ? Also where would I stand if I gave them the go ahead and it turned out not to resolve the problem ?

.....any feedback GREATLY appreciated.

[M-R-P]

How much will a new car (with all it's possible foibles) cost?

That's the question that's kept the Big Sweed out of the scrappy for the last 18 months.

Like I've said before, the car is perfect, I'd spend the money.

[V70 Graham]

How much will a new car (with all it's possible foibles) cost?

That's the question that's kept the Big Sweed out of the scrappy for the last 18 months.

Like I've said before, the car is perfect, I'd spend the money.

That's not my main worry.....I just don't want to spend the money and STILL have the problem !

[JUDGENINJA]

Can't a broken car ECM be used? I'm sure there are few being broken.

[M-R-P]

Press them for some sort of guarantee... they're a volvo specialist after all. It may be a complicated car but it's still a car and it's built by Volvo specialists.
If they can't say yes or no then they may be in the wrong business.

(this is the angle I'd go from any-hoo)

[V70 Graham]

Forgot to mention.....the second auto electrician that looked at the car on Thursday rang me this evening, he said he had sent the cars 'log' to Autologic and they had come back with either wiring to the ECM (checked and ok) or the ECM itself.

[Dangerous Dave]

Could you buy another ecu off a breaker and get the specialist to clone yours? Got to be cheaper than a 'reconditioned' one?

[V70 Graham]

Could you buy another ecu off a breaker and get the specialist to clone yours? Got to be cheaper than a 'reconditioned' one?

Not the ECU mate, it's the ECM, will look into it though.

[Dangerous Dave]

D'oh, that'll teach me to read posts properly :)

[ajc106]

hi have had this same thing on my 96 850r started her up moved 2 foot turned off would not start sounded like there was no compression called the AA very nice man, connected battery boost pack and put foot flat to the floor after a few minutes she started up fine, has happened again since so i did the same and she started up ok just a thought this might help

[glock19]

If there's no communication to the ECM, it's the ECM itself.
I've repaired a few units for a small fee but I'm a great distance from you guys, so that's out of the equation.
You can take a CEM, ECM and the car keys from a donor (scrapped) vehicle of the same year and make and use them though.

[Kingsford G]

No communication means its not working or no connection.If the wires ok than the actual unit.

[LeeT5]

I am not a one for hanging on a starter with a modern motor as if our cars don`t start quick there is something wrong, with my T4 the plugs were soaking wet when taken out and so were the combustion chambers, the reason i let to dry out all day was the fact that holding open the throttle is suppose to do the opposite of an N/A engine with a carburretor.

If flooded on a carb. unit you open the throttle WOT and let more air in to dilute the petrol to start but with an ECU and MAF engine the MAF will say put more petrol in as the throttle is WOT so you should not open the throttle.

It says this in the handbook...don`t touch the throttle when starting... it is very difficult not to as we are creatures of habit so i always keep away from it and have no trouble starting since even on my V70 T5. But now i have two batteries, a new one and another always fully charged just in case.


In my experience this is not always the case. I forget which make but some of the cars out there are actually programmed to switch off the injectors when WOT, if the engine is not actually running. This can be advantagious when a car engine is flooded because it prevents further fuel being injected.

I too have never heard of the 'Lawnmower effect'. In the trade, a car that is flooded with fuel and doesn't start is commonly known as being 'borewashed'. Anyway...as far a Graham's V70 is concerned, i would be checking the following:

1: Battery voltage above 12.2v and cranks the engine
2: Check for 12v and 5v references at injectors / MAF (this will rule out ECU fault/if 5v is present then the ECU is powered up and working)
3: Injectors switching on crank? (This will eliminate ECU, crankshaft sensor fault and immobilisor)
4: Fuel pump current draw? (check at the fuse - should be between 5 - 8amps)

If i found the above to be all present and correct and the car does not start, then as far as i'm concerned the car is flooded as Graham has already admitted to starting and switching off the car in a very short time.

You do not need to pour oil into cylinders to irradicate this issue. Simply remove the spark plugs then clean and dry. Then with car battery connected to either a powerful boost pack/doner car with good jump leads that can carry 200AMPS without melting or a battery charger that has a boost start facility, crank the engine over for no more than 10 seconds each time with a minute inbetween to cool down. This will irradicate the borewash and prevent overheating the starter motor. You only need do this a few times. Refit the spark plugs, refit the fuel pump fuse then crank her over (without touching the throttle). Car should start.

I find it very hard to believe that the dealer are pinning this down to a faulty ecu. (BTW, ECM and ECU in Volvo speak are the same thing. Engine control Module or Unit are both the same thing).

If the RAC man did his job properly, the above 4 checks take no more than 15 minutes. Tools needed are a Multi meter and a Noid light or LED tester for switching at the injectors and an AMP clamp.

Just throwing this out there, but nobody has mentioned doing a battery reset! If any of the ECU's has had a hissy fit it stops working or freezes. SImply removing the earth off the battery for 5 minutes then refitting often cures the problem and restores everything back to normal.

Works on all makes and models (you just have to becareful when reconnecting the battery as some cars have a certain procedure ie Volvo P2 models - you MUST have the ignition ON before reconnecting the earth)

EXAMPLE: Volvo V50 2.0D, cut out halfway up the driveway after driving home from work. Car was an AUTO and was also stuck in D. After a minute the customer managed to get the gear select into P but then it still wouldn't start. I arrived and carried out a few simple checks including checking for any fault codes, none were stored. Disconnected battery.....refitted and vehicle started. Everything restored to normal operation. Conclusion was the car's Gearbox ecu had a hissy fit causing car to cut out. The reason why the car wouldn't start was because the ECU thought it was still in D, therefore preventing the engine from starting (built in safety). After powering down the ECU and rebooting...the correct gear was selected, ie P and the car would then start. Mechanically all was well as i followed the car to the garage, just incase there was an inherent gearbox fault.

You should be asking the Dealer these Q's Graham before you shell out £700 for a new ECU!!

As far as the Diagnostic codes...They are there as an aid to diagnostics and not the Be ALL and END all to the inherent fault. It does pi@@ me off when ppl and or dealers jump to the wrong conclusion and assume that just because a diagnostics reader says: ECM - No communication, does NOT mean that your ECM if ££££ed! You need to do the basics first and always assume that its something simple.

I hope that the dealer find the fault and that it doesn't cost you dear.

[Chad]

Won't be long now... he's due home from work in a sec...

you make it sound like your married!!! lmao!!! :wave23d: :hilarious:hilarious:hilarious

[M-R-P]

you make it sound like your married!!! lmao!!! :wave23d: :hilarious:hilarious:hilarious

Oops! outed!

[Harvey]

Just to ask if you fitted a second hand unit that is not coded to the car would you get a not coded to car fault if you did then you would know that power was getting there , just a idea ?.

[V70 Graham]

In my experience this is not always the case. I forget which make but some of the cars out there are actually programmed to switch off the injectors when WOT, if the engine is not actually running. This can be advantagious when a car engine is flooded because it prevents further fuel being injected.

I too have never heard of the 'Lawnmower effect'. In the trade, a car that is flooded with fuel and doesn't start is commonly known as being 'borewashed'. Anyway...as far a Graham's V70 is concerned, i would be checking the following:

1: Battery voltage above 12.2v and cranks the engine
2: Check for 12v and 5v references at injectors / MAF (this will rule out ECU fault/if 5v is present then the ECU is powered up and working)
3: Injectors switching on crank? (This will eliminate ECU, crankshaft sensor fault and immobilisor)
4: Fuel pump current draw? (check at the fuse - should be between 5 - 8amps)

If i found the above to be all present and correct and the car does not start, then as far as i'm concerned the car is flooded as Graham has already admitted to starting and switching off the car in a very short time.

You do not need to pour oil into cylinders to irradicate this issue. Simply remove the spark plugs then clean and dry. Then with car battery connected to either a powerful boost pack/doner car with good jump leads that can carry 200AMPS without melting or a battery charger that has a boost start facility, crank the engine over for no more than 10 seconds each time with a minute inbetween to cool down. This will irradicate the borewash and prevent overheating the starter motor. You only need do this a few times. Refit the spark plugs, refit the fuel pump fuse then crank her over (without touching the throttle). Car should start.

I find it very hard to believe that the dealer are pinning this down to a faulty ecu. (BTW, ECM and ECU in Volvo speak are the same thing. Engine control Module or Unit are both the same thing).

If the RAC man did his job properly, the above 4 checks take no more than 15 minutes. Tools needed are a Multi meter and a Noid light or LED tester for switching at the injectors and an AMP clamp.

Just throwing this out there, but nobody has mentioned doing a battery reset! If any of the ECU's has had a hissy fit it stops working or freezes. SImply removing the earth off the battery for 5 minutes then refitting often cures the problem and restores everything back to normal.

Works on all makes and models (you just have to becareful when reconnecting the battery as some cars have a certain procedure ie Volvo P2 models - you MUST have the ignition ON before reconnecting the earth)

EXAMPLE: Volvo V50 2.0D, cut out halfway up the driveway after driving home from work. Car was an AUTO and was also stuck in D. After a minute the customer managed to get the gear select into P but then it still wouldn't start. I arrived and carried out a few simple checks including checking for any fault codes, none were stored. Disconnected battery.....refitted and vehicle started. Everything restored to normal operation. Conclusion was the car's Gearbox ecu had a hissy fit causing car to cut out. The reason why the car wouldn't start was because the ECU thought it was still in D, therefore preventing the engine from starting (built in safety). After powering down the ECU and rebooting...the correct gear was selected, ie P and the car would then start. Mechanically all was well as i followed the car to the garage, just incase there was an inherent gearbox fault.

You should be asking the Dealer these Q's Graham before you shell out £700 for a new ECU!!

As far as the Diagnostic codes...They are there as an aid to diagnostics and not the Be ALL and END all to the inherent fault. It does pi@@ me off when ppl and or dealers jump to the wrong conclusion and assume that just because a diagnostics reader says: ECM - No communication, does NOT mean that your ECM if ££££ed! You need to do the basics first and always assume that its something simple.

I hope that the dealer find the fault and that it doesn't cost you dear.

1. Battery voltace checked and over 12.2v and cranking fine.
2. NO 12v at injectors, power IS getting to ECM.
3. Injectors NOT switching on crank.
4. Fuel pump seems fine, fuel under pressure at rail.

[V70 Graham]

Latest update, part ordered, will take 2-3 days to arrive.....should know one way or the other by Friday !

[Kingsford G]

[QUOTE=LeeT5;54 It does pi@@ me off when ppl and or dealers jump to the wrong conclusion and assume that just because a diagnostics reader says: ECM - No communication, does NOT mean that your ECM if ££££ed! You need to do the basics first and always assume that its something simple.[/QUOTE]

U would expect all the basic checks done prior concluding a £700 needs replacing,wouldn`t u?Tbh I don`t know the set up of me7 so can`t really comment but all the facts indicate on ECM so lets wait and c.I know it`s a bit of money tp spend Graham but u won`t find the same one thats for sure so it`s worth it.

[merc85]

cam sensor?

[smithy]

1. Battery voltace checked and over 12.2v and cranking fine.
2. NO 12v at injectors, power IS getting to ECM.
3. Injectors NOT switching on crank.
4. Fuel pump seems fine, fuel under pressure at rail.
Just an idea it couldn't be the cam or crank senser because if they go down then the Ecu would not fire the injectors.just an idea that's all .

[Kingsford G]

Just an idea it couldn't be the cam or crank senser because if they go down then the Ecu would not fire the injectors.just an idea that's all .

Normally comes up on diagnostic unless the pick up point is out of line for which it`ll be cam belt jumped over but if it cranks ok it`s not that.

[smithy]

Normally comes up on diagnostic unless the pick up point is out of line for which it`ll be cam belt jumped over but if it cranks ok it`s not that.

As I said just an idea and I've none codes not come up and it's still the sencors .

[JUDGENINJA]

Come on Graham... 2-3 days!! It's going to cost me a quid!!

[LeeT5]

1. Battery voltace checked and over 12.2v and cranking fine.
2. NO 12v at injectors, power IS getting to ECM.
3. Injectors NOT switching on crank.
4. Fuel pump seems fine, fuel under pressure at rail.

If the ECM has power, ie 12v then this means that fuses 8 (60a) and fuse 10 (10a) are ok. If your fuel pump is working then this indicates that the Engine Control Relay is working via fuse 12 (20a). However, the Engine Control Relay also supplys 12v to the injectors via fuse 11 (10a). The fuel injectors on your car Graham do not get 12v from anywhere else other than Engine control relay via fuse 11 and fuse 8. This engine control Relay ALSO supplys 12v to the MAF sensor. So, if you don't have 12v at the MAF then the fault has to lie with the Engine Control Relay if fuses 8 and 11 are ok and have 12v going through them.

The main ECM has a direct 12v feed from the ignition switch at terminal A12, so if the ECM is powered up it won't tell you much.

If you don't have 12v at the injectors then you won't get a switching pulse anyway. Also, if the ECM is powered up then you should have a yellow engine management light on the dash.

You never did say, but did you have 5v at the MAF?

The fact your missing 12v at the Injectors is a good sign as far as i'm concerned and has nothing to do with the ECM.

[V70 Graham]

It ended up being 2 days.....

Anne got a phone call at lunchtime to say that they had received the new ECM, flashed it with software, fitted it, and the car started with the first turn of the key :D

Yes I suppose I could have gone down the route suggested by glock19 (post #52) hunting out a car of the same year to source the CEM, ECM and keys, but even if I had done all that how long would that one have lasted ? 10 years, 1 year, 1 month ?

At the end of the day Anne and myself had a chat and deceided that as we both enjoy the car so much it was worth the outlay, we feel our car is in good condition for the year and using it, attending meets and being on the forum is something we both enjoy, added to which we have met some great people on here.....how much is that worth ?

Are we glad the car is fixed.....yes

Are we thankfull for all your posts on this thread.....yes

Are we looking forward to the 'Softies' meet on Sunday.....yes

Are we looking forward to seeing Frankie's face as I snick the car into 3rd and pull away from him in whatever car he has next year at Santa Pod.....hell yeah (ok I made that one up :o)

Thank you all for your help and suggestions, VPCUK to the rescue again.

[M-R-P]

Glad she's running again mate.

As with my dim, you can indeed get second hand cheaper but like you say, how long will it last.

See ya soon ;)

[Dangerous Dave]

Great news matey :)

Makes me quite glad I have a low-tech 850

[Harvey]

Great to see it on the road again.

[glock19]

Hey good to know it's back on the road. Mind telling how much it set you back ?
It's true you wouldn't know what condition the donor units will be and yo might be back to square one.
That's why I recommend it to be reman / repaired (if you were in my vicinity)

[stribo]

Glad it's sorted mate, see you both Sunday. BTW I've read somewhere that ECM's are renowned for packing up in cars that don't go over 30mph. :P

[M-R-P]

Hahaha nice one Steve

[V70 Graham]

Glad it's sorted mate, see you both Sunday. BTW I've read somewhere that ECM's are renowned for packing up in cars that don't go over 30mph. :P

Yeah, cheers.....MATE lol

[M-R-P]

Hey good to know it's back on the road. Mind telling how much it set you back ?
It's true you wouldn't know what condition the donor units will be and yo might be back to square one.
That's why I recommend it to be reman / repaired (if you were in my vicinity)

Although re-manufacturing is often a good means of getting it going again, there's still no way of knowing how long the repair will last.
If the eprom chip itself had failed, there's nothing you can do but replace. I'm not 100% that this was the problem with Graham's car but if it had been sent away for a few days to repair, only to find that there was nothing that can be done for it, that's another few days of no car plus more expense. Where as, it took 2 days for a new unit to arrive and be fitted and updated with the latest Volvo software, which SHOULD last indefinitely, I would personally take the hit. (after spending £732.50 on a new DIM, I should know)

[gsxrboy]

At the end of the day Anne and myself had a chat and decided that as we both enjoy the car so much it was worth the outlay, we feel our car is in good condition for the year and using it, attending meets and being on the forum is something we both enjoy, added to which we have met some great people on here.....how much is that worth ?


you can't put a price on that :)

[Dangerous Dave]

At the end of the day Anne and myself had a chat and deceided that as we both enjoy the car so much it was worth the outlay, we feel our car is in good condition for the year and using it, attending meets and being on the forum is something we both enjoy, added to which we have met some great people on here.....how much is that worth?
Brilliant way of looking at it! If it makes you happy, why sacrifice it.

:beer:

[V70 Graham]

Hey good to know it's back on the road. Mind telling how much it set you back ?
It's true you wouldn't know what condition the donor units will be and yo might be back to square one.
That's why I recommend it to be reman / repaired (if you were in my vicinity)

More than we wanted to spend.....not enough to scrap the car :wink:

[V70 Graham]

Car has been collected this morning, after 3 bus rides totalling over 2 hours (blooming bus drivers :slap:)

After a quick wash, it's looking as good as ever, seems to drive more smoothly too now.

Right, off down to see M-R-P.....'bout time he fitted that steering wheel !

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y183/graham1326/IMG_0060.jpg

[M-R-P]

Pretty car :D

[t5steve]

yippee............glad you got it sorted mate.................now back to enjoying your lovely volvo

[Wobbly Dave]

I am glad it is all sorted - I too have had my fair share of expensive repair bills over the years. The key thing is you still like the car & are prepared to keep it going - which is a good thing. Enjoy the ride - I hope to see you on the quarter next year?

[Kingsford G]

The car is a beauty mate and in best hands she can be too.Glad its all sorted now.As `ve said all these meetings and ppl u meet and wanna meet again,their support and advise is priceless.

[T5frankie]

so i was right? where is my prize? :xmas2:

[stribo]

I am glad it is all sorted - I too have had my fair share of expensive repair bills over the years. The key thing is you still like the car & are prepared to keep it going - which is a good thing. Enjoy the ride - I hope to see you on the quarter next year?

If Graham's driving it'll be a quarter of an hour, though I reckon AnneMarie could get low 15's, high 14's. ;)

[T5frankie]

If Graham's driving it'll be a quarter of an hour, though I reckon AnneMarie could get low 15's, high 14's. ;)

standard t5 is high 15's lol with a good driver

[stribo]

standard t5 is high 15's lol with a good driver
TBH, that's quite §§§§, my Cougar could do that. Must be the weight.

[T5frankie]

TBH, that's quite §§§§, my Cougar could do that. Must be the weight.

high 15's is a fast road car i.e t5's civic type r's etc golf gti's do 17's

[stribo]

high 15's is a fast road car i.e t5's civic type r's etc golf gti's do 17's

What's mid 14's then? ;)

[V70 Graham]

so i was right? where is my prize? :xmas2:

Hmmm.....suppose you were kinda first lol....pm me your address and I'll get a SMALL and VERY CHEAP prize to you :wink:

[stribo]

Hmmm.....suppose you were kinda first lol....pm me your address and I'll get a SMALL and VERY CHEAP prize to you :wink:
Why not just present it at the Christmas do? Then we can all take the §§§§. ;)

[mr shifter]

Car has been collected this morning, after 3 bus rides totalling over 2 hours (blooming bus drivers :slap:)

After a quick wash, it's looking as good as ever, seems to drive more smoothly too now.

Right, off down to see M-R-P.....'bout time he fitted that steering wheel !

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y183/graham1326/IMG_0060.jpg

Her herm, im a bus driver !!:buttkick: :-)

[JUDGENINJA]

standard t5 is high 15's lol with a good driver

My Fastest 850 run whilst almost standard (ITG filter only) was 15.4. This was reduced by 1.2 seconds with a few lightening modifications..(I must get that car back running)..

[V70 Graham]

Her herm, im a bus driver !!:buttkick: :-)

Just in case you didn't know......I am too lol

[T5frankie]

Why not just present it at the Christmas do? Then we can all take the §§§§. ;)

err no, already said i dont do that.................

[stribo]

err no, already said i dont do that.................

But it's not a present, it's a prize.

[jdavis]

Glad to hear its all up and running again. Yours is one of the best p1 v70's I've seen.

[V70 Graham]

Glad to hear its all up and running again. Yours is one of the best p1 v70's I've seen.

Thanks mate, after driving her over the past few days it has just confirmed to us that we did the right thing, gonna take more than a dodgy ECU to ever make me want to get rid of her.

[T5frankie]

What's mid 14's then? ;)

a 300bhp s60r mate

[deathrider311271]

im pleased you got it sorted in the end mate, well worth it by the looks of your car :eclipsee_

[V70 Graham]

im pleased you got it sorted in the end mate, well worth it by the looks of your car :eclipsee_

Thanks for your help, we appreciate it.

[y2blade]

Really pleased to read that she's all sorted now :cool:
Glad for you both.