My Wheel Alignment Results

[JamesT5]

Hi

Today I went off to ATS Euromaster and took advantage of their 'Pothole Buster' deal and got the wheels aligned and balanced.

The front two wheels were tracked correctly but were not aligned (if that makes sense). I watched the computer screen as the guy moved the alignment and both are now correctly aligned, although my steering wheel is now 'left lopsided' instead of 'right lopsided' - annoying how I can't seem to get it to sit dead straight!

As for balancing, I'm told all 4 wheels have some sort of buckle and basically it's down to age and useage, remember they have done 230,000 miles, so I'm going to have to look at replacing the wheels at some point rather than refurbing them. The balance was out on pretty much all of them too.

The back wheels he said were not adjustable despite the tracking being "miles out", this suprised me somewhat. I want to get opinions on this, because he said the only way to sort the rear end out is to change worn suspension parts until it puts itself right..? :wtf:

Anyway, on to the results. I got some print outs (as promised) and you can see for yourself the Before and After readings. The only thing he was able to adjust was the front wheel alignment as everything else was either ok or unadjustable......

Alignment Before
16918

Alignment After
16919

I've got slightly less wheel shake now although that's still present and is likely down to my warped brake disc on the front. But overall, there is a slight improvement in car feel and handling. The total cost was £60 but to be honest, it was worth it for peace of mind if nothing else.

Regards

James

[JamesT5]

By the way, ignore the attached thumnails in the grey box at the bottom of the post, the labeeling 'Before' and 'After' is on the wrong picture and I can't seem to get rid of the thumbnails box at the bottom.

[Nealevo]

If id just paid £60 to have my wheels balanced and tracked i would be returning with those results mate, The steering wheel should be centre and they adjust from there, plus the wheels should be balance to at maximum 5 grams on the front, plus on my car (855r) you can adjust the rear toe in etc, I re align loads of cars every week at work when clumsy customers go off track, and even after many hours the Steering wheel should NOT wobble. I personnal would take it back to get it re checked. but after all your recent woes im sure you are sick to death of the car now!!!

[M-R-P]

Does anybody else think that the rear subframe is misaligned?

I believe there is adjustment on the rear wheels too. (I'll have to check to confirm but I'm sure protyre adjusted mine)

Kinda looks like it's gone sideways into a kerb, back wheel first.

[JamesT5]

If id just paid £60 to have my wheels balanced and tracked i would be returning with those results mate, The steering wheel should be centre and they adjust from there, plus the wheels should be balance to at maximum 5 grams on the front, plus on my car (855r) you can adjust the rear toe in etc, I re align loads of cars every week at work when clumsy customers go off track, and even after many hours the Steering wheel should NOT wobble. I personnal would take it back to get it re checked. but after all your recent woes im sure you are sick to death of the car now!!!

Well my thought was, why isn't the wheel straight, it should be dead centre. And yes, you're right, this car is slowly erroding my patience.

[JamesT5]

Does anybody else think that the rear subframe is misaligned?

I believe there is adjustment on the rear wheels too. (I'll have to check to confirm but I'm sure protyre adjusted mine)

Kinda looks like it's gone sideways into a kerb, back wheel first.

If there is adjustment on the rear wheels, I'll be booking the car back in and asking them to look at it again hopefully at a heavily discounted rate. I'll be interested to find out where (if anwhere) the rear wheel alignment adjusters are. he seemed to have a good look for them but couldn't see any.

[V70 Graham]

James, you should not have an off centre steering wheel if the car has been aligned properly, I use these for all my tyres and alignment needs.....

http://www.southalldiscounttyres.co.uk/

They use the following laser equipement.....

http://www.pro-align.co.uk/proalignproducts/imagingalignment/

I know you are in Mid Wales but it would be worthwile to hunt out a reputable 4 wheel alignment centre, the steering wheels on both the V70 and VAG are dead straight, with no pulling or wobbling whatsoever.

[Nealevo]

James have a look at this
http://www.volvoclub.org.uk/tech/service/850/WheelAlignmentSpecificationsProcedures.pdf

It shows the rear adjusting place

Neal

[partsforvolvos.com]

rear toe adjustment on the later car is on the square frame bar at the inside with the oval washer on the bolt as far as i know.

16921
hope this helps.

[partsforvolvos.com]

Does anybody else think that the rear subframe is misaligned?


nope , very slim chance

[p fandango]

must get Bonny's tracking checked lol

[JamesT5]

rear toe adjustment on the later car is on the square frame bar at the inside with the oval washer on the bolt as far as i know.

16921
hope this helps.

Thanks, I'm just trying to work out how that set up adjusts the rear alignment. Maybe I should print it off and take it to ATS and bring up the lopsided wheel at the same time.

Thanks to everyone so far for their help...

[JamesT5]

The car is rebooked for Wednesday afternoon and I've taken the diagram to the garage to show them it. I've also asked them to look in to why the steering wheel is on a slant, still. Thanks for all you advice as always chaps, much appreciated. :)

[JamesT5]

For your 'amusement', I've taken some photographs tonight of the wheel in 3 different positions. They represent the approximate wheel position when diriving in a straight line before the alignment, after the alignment and where it should be now (first photo), pretty obvious but it's a good comparison photo. Oh, and I've also taken one of my odometer just to show off my high mileage! :D I did take the photos whilst safely parked up with the handbrake on, but the wheel position is pretty much exactly where it is when on the move.

Position of the wheel when dirivng in a straight line...

For comparison - The theoretical correct position that it should be in (once the wheels are aligned properly):
16924

Before Alignment:
16922

After Alignment:
16923

Now tell me I've got OCD someone please, or am I on to something here. :D

Just to show off, here's my odometer reading as of 07/09/2012... :beer:

16925

Regards

James

[LeeT5]

James,

Everything on the rear of your car is adjustable accept the Camber. Unless you lower your car then you won't need to adjust camber anyway, which can only be done using IPD's rear camber bushes. I have them fitted to mine to the MAX position which brings my car into spec once lowered 30mm. Without them i'd be 2 degrees negative camber and my tyres wouldn't last 5 minutes!
Also, if i'd spent £60 on 4 wheel alignment i would expect the guy thats adjusting my car to know what he's doing and the Steering wheel would be straight as an arrow, NO exeptions!!

Here is what my alighnment looked like two weeks ago....

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e11/LeeT5/Phase%202%20V70R%20AWD/preAlighnment.jpg

And here it is AFTER adjustments were made:
(Note: This set up is as per the HEICO race team settings for V70R/S60R. I can assure you my steering is perfectly straight and there is no wandering or pulling, vibration or otherwise. It is just perfect!!):

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e11/LeeT5/Phase%202%20V70R%20AWD/PostAlighnment.jpg

I will point out that the left rear camber (shown in red) is, as you can see, a knats §§§§ out. However when you sit in the car this turns green and goes well into spec. :wink:

Note ALL the TOE settings on the rear are '0' and the steer ahead is also '0'. This 4 wheel alighnment cost me £59.94 inc vat.

[p fandango]

I will point out that the left rear camber (shown in red) is, as you can see, a knats §§§§ out. However when you sit in the car this turns green and goes well into spec. :wink:
your driving from the wrong seat then lol


Without them i'd be 2 degrees negative camber and my tyres wouldn't last 5 minutes!
i've just fitted 6degree camber plates lol
http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/6987/26082012730.jpg

[partsforvolvos.com]

i believe the issue with the steering wheel is because although they would have clamped it striaght (or should have) there is a slight play at rest in the middle and often if this is not centered after the steering is turned execessively whilst stationary then the wheel will be slightly out to one side or the other.

but, you paid and it should be correct- no questions!

[partsforvolvos.com]

pedro- it aint an E30 beemer !!!!!!!!! thats not volvo like

[LeeT5]

i believe the issue with the steering wheel is because although they would have clamped it striaght (or should have) there is a slight play at rest in the middle and often if this is not centered after the steering is turned execessively whilst stationary then the wheel will be slightly out to one side or the other.

but, you paid and it should be correct- no questions!

I totally agree. Earlier this year i had slight issues with alighnment in that everytime it was adjusted the steering was never quite 100%, maybe 98% at best. It was noted that there was quite alot of freeplay in the steering. A trip to Volvo and they replaced the steering U/J and my steering was as tight as a nuns chaf :redface:

...Back to the alighnment center and the results speak for themselves.

[JamesT5]

I've been back to ATS today and thanks to Parts For Volvo for the diagram, I was able to give that to the garage so they could locate the rear adjusters.

When I arrived, they said that I was the 3rd person to complain about the steering wheel not being straight, and I asked them when the equipment was due for calibration. They said that they'd had it a year and it was due for a calibration test, which might explain why the gentleman who was waiting at the garage with me was also there for a re-check, after which his wheel still wasn't straight!

So they have rechecked mine and to be honest, I think they've finally got mine within spec. The steering wheel is now straight as far as I can tell, and now the back wheels and front wheels are aligned I can feel a massive difference in the ride comfort of the car. I took it down a 2 mile stretch of dual carriageway and where before my wheel used to shake (that was balancing), and the car vibrated a lot, now the car feels much smoother and the handling seems sharper.

Best of all, they let me off the extra costs normally involved with doing the back adjustment because of the inconvenience of having to book the car back in. In total I've paid £59.99 to front and rear wheel alignment and balancing checked and corrected on a all 4 wheels.

I still have 4 out of round alloy wheels and I've noticed twice today a knocking sound when I've turned the wheel. Having replaced pretty much every major suspension component on the front end apart from the shocks, I'm sure this knock is a worn stut top mount and I'm going to get all of them changed when I have the shocks done (next major job on my list). I also need to change the front brake discs as at least one is warped from the stuck caliper a few weeks ago - when I apply the brakes the wheel wobbles around so the discs are getting replaced.

Anwyay, Parts For Volvo, I'll be looking your way first for parts so I'll see what you've got available on your website, but I'm not quite ready to buy new bits yet I've got to save up for them first. :D As for the alignment, I've got a print out (see below) from ATS, which shows the alignment now that they have done the work. All in all, much much better!

On a foot note, I noticed the first time they checked the alignment, they used the 1991 - 2000 model run which was obviously the 'profile' for the 850 and the P1 V70's. I did point out this the first time but the guy insisted the profiles were almost identical. This time, I asked them to select the correct profile just to make sure everything was right.

Thanks to everyone for their help and advice!

16973

Regards

James

[JUDGENINJA]

I had that all done before Cadwell park destroyed the car. I was advised at the time and any rear adjust would not be covered if any bolts were to snap... Bit pointless doing the measurements if they aren't willing to adjust it properly...

[p fandango]

pedro- it aint an E30 beemer !!!!!!!!! thats not volvo like
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4152/5034399934_753b95269a_o.png

[LeeT5]

I've been back to ATS today and thanks to Parts For Volvo for the diagram, I was able to give that to the garage so they could locate the rear adjusters.

When I arrived, they said that I was the 3rd person to complain about the steering wheel not being straight, and I asked them when the equipment was due for calibration. They said that they'd had it a year and it was due for a calibration test, which might explain why the gentleman who was waiting at the garage with me was also there for a re-check, after which his wheel still wasn't straight!

So they have rechecked mine and to be honest, I think they've finally got mine within spec. The steering wheel is now straight as far as I can tell, and now the back wheels and front wheels are aligned I can feel a massive difference in the ride comfort of the car. I took it down a 2 mile stretch of dual carriageway and where before my wheel used to shake (that was balancing), and the car vibrated a lot, now the car feels much smoother and the handling seems sharper.

Best of all, they let me off the extra costs normally involved with doing the back adjustment because of the inconvenience of having to book the car back in. In total I've paid £59.99 to front and rear wheel alignment and balancing checked and corrected on a all 4 wheels.

I still have 4 out of round alloy wheels and I've noticed twice today a knocking sound when I've turned the wheel. Having replaced pretty much every major suspension component on the front end apart from the shocks, I'm sure this knock is a worn stut top mount and I'm going to get all of them changed when I have the shocks done (next major job on my list). I also need to change the front brake discs as at least one is warped from the stuck caliper a few weeks ago - when I apply the brakes the wheel wobbles around so the discs are getting replaced.

Anwyay, Parts For Volvo, I'll be looking your way first for parts so I'll see what you've got available on your website, but I'm not quite ready to buy new bits yet I've got to save up for them first. :D As for the alignment, I've got a print out (see below) from ATS, which shows the alignment now that they have done the work. All in all, much much better!

On a foot note, I noticed the first time they checked the alignment, they used the 1991 - 2000 model run which was obviously the 'profile' for the 850 and the P1 V70's. I did point out this the first time but the guy insisted the profiles were almost identical. This time, I asked them to select the correct profile just to make sure everything was right.

Thanks to everyone for their help and advice!

16973

Regards

James

Glad the car feels better and you weren't charged the extra but why didn't they get the rears running parallel or at least the same both sides? This is very easily achievable if they take their time and be patient. I would say that your car would drive even better if the rear toe was corrected.
One of the biggest flaws of the P2 cars, inparticular the V70R/S60R is the 'rear side hop issue'. I must say, with my current set up and the alignment set up the side hop has almost completely been eliminated. I very rarely ever notice it now.

[JamesT5]

Glad the car feels better and you weren't charged the extra but why didn't they get the rears running parallel or at least the same both sides? This is very easily achievable if they take their time and be patient. I would say that your car would drive even better if the rear toe was corrected.
One of the biggest flaws of the P2 cars, inparticular the V70R/S60R is the 'rear side hop issue'. I must say, with my current set up and the alignment set up the side hop has almost completely been eliminated. I very rarely ever notice it now.

'Rear Hop'? Are you referring to the jumping and bumping sensation I was getting before?

By the way, the rear toe is absolutely fine, the arrow is within the green bar indicating that the set up is within specifications. As long as it's within the green band area the wheel alignment is fine and no further adjustment is needed (until you hit a pot hole!).

Regards

James

[Harvey]

Glad the car feels better and you weren't charged the extra but why didn't they get the rears running parallel or at least the same both sides? This is very easily achievable if they take their time and be patient. I would say that your car would drive even better if the rear toe was corrected.
One of the biggest flaws of the P2 cars, inparticular the V70R/S60R is the 'rear side hop issue'. I must say, with my current set up and the alignment set up the side hop has almost completely been eliminated. I very rarely ever notice it now.

Hi Lee just reading this thread,do you have the HEICO setting on file as my motor does like to hop when driveing hard out of corners if its not dead flat, has been very scary at times.
if you do please could you let me have a copy then i will get my car in ASAP,Thanks

[LeeT5]

'Rear Hop'? Are you referring to the jumping and bumping sensation I was getting before?

By the way, the rear toe is absolutely fine, the arrow is within the green bar indicating that the set up is within specifications. As long as it's within the green band area the wheel alignment is fine and no further adjustment is needed (until you hit a pot hole!).

Regards

James

Rear hop is a phenomenom that P2 cars suffer. Volvo did do an adjustment to P2 car alighnment specs but it was so small it hardly made any difference. On V70R/S60R this also included a SUM calibration inc a software update to try to eliminate side hop. It made a very small difference but never completely got rid of the sensation. If youv'e ever felt your car feel abit floaty when cornering over bumps and sometimes in a straight line too, then this unerving feeling led to complaints from 03 - 04 owners and thus Volvo took steps to irradicate this problem. They never quite went the whole hog.
I felt it badly when my car was standard when i first bought her and it does make your backside twitch!!
Now my current suspension mods including new shocks, latest SUM software (ver3), lowering springs and Alighnment setup have pretty much got rid of it all together.

[LeeT5]

Hi Lee just reading this thread,do you have the HEICO setting on file as my motor does like to hop when driveing hard out of corners if its not dead flat, has been very scary at times.
if you do please could you let me have a copy then i will get my car in ASAP,Thanks

Yes mate:

Front Toe = 0*02'
Rear Toe = 0*00' (Parallel)

Camber just needs to be in spec mate.
Thrust is Non adjustable.

That's it!

NB: You must make sure your car has the latest SUM update else you'll only cure half the problem with the Alighnment spec.

[Harvey]

Hi thanks for the info,volvo did a full update in feb this year, just about to fit my new wheels so i can get my winter alloys refinished.
would be nice to get the car set up tested with the summer set up,if the rear is out i might powerflex the rear end,as well as the front.

[partsforvolvos.com]

no problem at all James. Glad to help.

Jamie