Remapping 2.3 T5 - Questions/Benefits..

[JamesT5]

Hi

A lot of you on here talk about remapping, which I understand to be professional 'tinkering' with the ECU to make it control the engine differently and get improved performance.

What I'm really interested in most apart from the obvious question of where and how much, is not so much 0 - 60 as such, but whether I can get more low end 'pull' or torque out of a remap. I don't know if anyone else finds this, but the 2.3 T5 seems quite sluggish lower down the rev range and I often find myself 'tutting' when I have to put the car in to 2nd gear (it's a manual), to get the thing going again before changing up, especially on a hill start or upward trend in the road.

The amount of times I've pulled away from a junction and found the car just isn't going anywhere, so I put the car in to second or even first to get the revs up to get some power to go, very annoying and actually quite surprising given it's a performace engine. Sound familiar??

Ok, so will a remap cure this (i.e. give me a better 'power curve' I think the techies call it), or will it just give me more power where I have it currently?

I'd be grateful for any advice.

Regards

James

[T5frankie]

a remap will give you loads more torque, but to be fair you have loads already and shouldnt need to change into 2nd when going slowly, remember its a turbo'd car so off boost it will feel sluggish anyway

[theflyingbrick]

i dont know if ive miss read your post but if your pulling away from a junction,how do you need to change into 2nd possibly 1st!!! are you pulling away in 3rd??? :eek:

[ROZER]

i have a s60 t5 the 2.3 engine you need read the ecu for codes first as even before i had it remapped it never felt sluggish at all . got to get it running spot on first before map.

[M-R-P]

Ello James ;)
Mine is the same. It takes some getting used to. Where it's a turbo, if the turbo isn't spinning fast, it serves to hold the engine back. It really comes into it's own at about 2-2500 rpm. Where mine is heavy (1640 ish kg) I notice it a lot if I try to pull hard without thinking about it.
Nowerdays, I "blip" the throttle between gears when changing down to give it that extra bit of go when I need it.
Bottom line is, it takes practice and an understanding of how to get the best from the big turbo lump and it will make you smile every time you get it spot on, boot 2nd @2600 rpm and get thrown into the back seat. Trust me ;)

Once you've conquered that, get the car in tip-top shape, save 300 quid and head to HLM for a remap, as I intend to do in November :D

[Wobbly Dave]

Torque is cheap! Just get it bought!

[M-R-P]

Nice one Dave ;)

[lance]

What they all said the phase 2s do feel a bit sluggish below 2500 rpm a remap will make her feel more alive and give you more grunt thougout the rev range Bhp expect an extra 20 or 30 torque you can expect a full fat 1/4 to a 1/3 more which does make a huge difference my p2 felt a bit slow till mapped but then again my cars prior to that both had over 300 bhp

[Wobbly Dave]

Nice one Dave ;)
I thought it was quite good too.

[V70 Graham]

As has been said, remember these cars weigh a bit and need some 'getting going' however a remap will give loads more torque and give the car more 'driveability'
That said you will get used to the extra power in no time.....and want more and more and more lol

[JamesT5]

i dont know if ive miss read your post but if your pulling away from a junction,how do you need to change into 2nd possibly 1st!!! are you pulling away in 3rd??? :eek:

I pull out in 1st, change up butt a little too early as before I had this car I was driving a 6 speed Skoda VRS Diesel which would need very little time in 1st before it took off and needed changing up.

Old habits die hard I suppose! :D

Regards

James

[LiamT4]

Lack of low down torque......whats that then? :haha:

[WHITE999-T5]

JamesT5, i know what you mean, i own a 6 speed fabia diesel VRS, and a T5 2.3, once the T5 hd been collected i drive most of the way home, without realising it as i had been doing in the VRS for the last two and a bit years. It did feel slow to what i had thought it should, but went to over take someone just after entering onto the motorway and you get a big strong surge of power after 2500-2700 rpm, then it sparked in my little grey cells, DOH, this is petrol! Needless to say dont really worry about it nowadays as if comng out of a junction on a fast road get it rolling in 1st then snic it into 2nd and keep it pressed and it will move nicely along.

[LeeT5]

Hi

A lot of you on here talk about remapping, which I understand to be professional 'tinkering' with the ECU to make it control the engine differently and get improved performance.

What I'm really interested in most apart from the obvious question of where and how much, is not so much 0 - 60 as such, but whether I can get more low end 'pull' or torque out of a remap. I don't know if anyone else finds this, but the 2.3 T5 seems quite sluggish lower down the rev range and I often find myself 'tutting' when I have to put the car in to 2nd gear (it's a manual), to get the thing going again before changing up, especially on a hill start or upward trend in the road.

The amount of times I've pulled away from a junction and found the car just isn't going anywhere, so I put the car in to second or even first to get the revs up to get some power to go, very annoying and actually quite surprising given it's a performace engine. Sound familiar??

Ok, so will a remap cure this (i.e. give me a better 'power curve' I think the techies call it), or will it just give me more power where I have it currently?

I'd be grateful for any advice.

Regards

James

If your car is that 'sluggish' then maybe something isn't right? Your car should be pulling max torque from as low down as 1800 rpm! So you shouldn't be struggling in any gear.

Before you go down the 'remap' route you need to start with a stage '0' tune. If you don't do this first then you'll never get the full potential out of a remap, no matter how much money you chuck at it.

Having said that, once youv'e done your stage '0' then have a chat with BSR. They can build you a custom map depending on your requirements. They even do maps designed for towing!!

[LiamT4]

I thought it was higher than that, peak torque at 2400rpm.

for a standard car

[T5frankie]

my peak torque was at 4500rpms

[ROZER]

as i said with 246 bhp and 243 lbs torque a t5 running right does not struggle in any gear. before i did the remap i changed the front pipe to a 3 inch then full s/s exhaust bought a code reader and got rid of all the little problems first and there was a few like the maf , split boost hose , tcv, map sensor, incorrect wastegate actuator. good idea is to fit a boost gauge so you can see what your boost is doing then when you spend say £430 on a rica map or hlm £300 you can see and feel the difference.

[ROZER]

yes thats right peak torque at 2400rpm and with map say rica 2900rpm. 4500rpm frankie was that because you had a 19t fitted and maybe bigger injectors and needed a custom map.

[LeeT5]

I thought it was higher than that, peak torque at 2400rpm.

Oh, now you got me. JamesT5 is a P26 2.4 T5 and you might be right about the 2400rpm. On the earlier 2.3 T5 the peak torque was at 1800 rpm.

[M-R-P]

James's car is a 2.3 and ME7 (let's not forget the ME7 bit as they are supposed to be smoother so aggression is kept to a minimum ;))
My engine is in tip-top shape and is dull before 2300 rpm, although would still pull better than a N/A 2.3 engine with that weight hanging off it.
**The R is a different animal and shouldn't be brought into this, before anybody pipes - up.**
For example (and I can see James having the same thing) Mine in 2nd gear at 1800 rpm, foot down, pulls ok to 2000 rpm, then pulls better to 2800 rpm and then all hell breaks loose and she's off (in my case) up to 60 in a flash, then 3rd for another go.
James has had his battery off recently and unless he's been thrashing the car since reconnecting it, it will take a while to "wake up" as mine started to do yesterday i.e. ecu learns how you want it to go and adjusts to suit.
Admittedly, a proper stahe 0 tune and a code clearance will get the most out of it but there's so many factors to consider with the P2 cars.

[piper1st]

I pull out in 1st, change up butt a little too early as before I had this car I was driving a 6 speed Skoda VRS Diesel which would need very little time in 1st before it took off and needed changing up.


Hi James,

As its already been said, Diesel and Petrol are two different driving styles. Diesels have a lot of low down torque, that is why in a diesel you can pull off slowly in 1st gear without even touching the throttle. Petrol engines need more rev's or they will stall, but as petrols are higher reving, it makes them way more fun (IMHO). Stay in 1st gear longer so that when you change to 2nd, the rev's don't drop below 2k. Simples! :B_steerin

As its been said many times above, make sure the engine is well serviced and running perfect before any remap!

[JamesT5]

Hi James,

As its already been said, Diesel and Petrol are two different driving styles. Diesels have a lot of low down torque, that is why in a diesel you can pull off slowly in 1st gear without even touching the throttle. Petrol engines need more rev's or they will stall, but as petrols are higher reving, it makes them way more fun (IMHO). Stay in 1st gear longer so that when you change to 2nd, the rev's don't drop below 2k. Simples! :B_steerin

As its been said many times above, make sure the engine is well serviced and running perfect before any remap!

It's well serviced for sure, it's got a full and mostly Volvo Dealer service history from new and I've checked the service history book against Volvo's service records at my local dealer. :)

[adam b]

Yeah but full volvo main dealer service history means §§§§§§ all unless its from either MRG (chippenham) or FRF (Swansea). Mine had FSH, mostly dealer and there was a lot wrong with it, codes stored, boost leak (split intercooler), TCV not working etc etc.
Your best bet is get the codes read with the proper volvo kit and i'd get it smoke tested (pressured smoke into the air intake to show any leaks). Then look to get a remap. Read up about it properly first, everyone has their favourites, MTE, HLM, Rica, Shark and soon the community maps on T5D5.

There is a lot more to be had from the handling than from making more power on these. An extra 25BHp and 50lbft (realistic on a completely standard 2.3 T5) will not necessarily make you much quicker point to point.

[LeeT5]

Yeah but full volvo main dealer service history means §§§§§§ all unless its from either MRG (chippenham) or FRF (Swansea). Mine had FSH, mostly dealer and there was a lot wrong with it, codes stored, boost leak (split intercooler), TCV not working etc etc.
Your best bet is get the codes read with the proper volvo kit and i'd get it smoke tested (pressured smoke into the air intake to show any leaks). Then look to get a remap. Read up about it properly first, everyone has their favourites, MTE, HLM, Rica, Shark and soon the community maps on T5D5.

There is a lot more to be had from the handling than from making more power on these. An extra 25BHp and 50lbft (realistic on a completely standard 2.3 T5) will not necessarily make you much quicker point to point.

That's a very bold statement and one, i think, is a load of Bolo*!

My car has service history at MRG and other main dealers. It's also spent the last 2 years being maintained by Lipscomb Volvo (Main Dealer) and to there credit...to a very high standard! Not all dealers are useless, infact most are very good. Its only a small amount that let the side down and give dealers bad press. Each time i visit Lipscomb i always leave happy, especially when they have given me anything from 39%-55% labour discount and 12% off parts!!!
MRG and Chippenham aren't the only dealers in the land that know what their doing you know.

[V70 Graham]

That's a very bold statement and one, i think, is a load of Bolo*!

My car has service history at MRG and other main dealers. It's also spent the last 2 years being maintained by Lipscomb Volvo (Main Dealer) and to there credit...to a very high standard! Not all dealers are useless, infact most are very good. Its only a small amount that let the side down and give dealers bad press. Each time i visit Lipscomb i always leave happy, especially when they have given me anything from 39%-55% labour discount and 12% off parts!!!
MRG and Chippenham aren't the only dealers in the land that know what their doing you know.

It's true, whenever I have delt with Lipscomb they have been spot on.

[M-R-P]

My local Volvo dealer tried to argue that the steering stops on P2 cars weren't colour coded. Nuff said.

[adam b]

That's a very bold statement and one, i think, is a load of Bolo*!

My car has service history at MRG and other main dealers. It's also spent the last 2 years being maintained by Lipscomb Volvo (Main Dealer) and to there credit...to a very high standard! Not all dealers are useless, infact most are very good. Its only a small amount that let the side down and give dealers bad press. Each time i visit Lipscomb i always leave happy, especially when they have given me anything from 39%-55% labour discount and 12% off parts!!!
MRG and Chippenham aren't the only dealers in the land that know what their doing you know.

Speak as you find - thats my experience so far ;)
So we are up to 3 dealers that know what they are doing? Happy days!

All i'm trying to say is that its pointless remapping it without exploring any other possible issues first. I'm also telling you that making the handling balance better will make it quicker than a remap.

[LeeT5]

My local Volvo dealer tried to argue that the steering stops on P2 cars weren't colour coded. Nuff said.

So what your saying is YOUR dealer doesn't know what its doing and that all other dealers do! LOL.

With respect, you can't tar ALL dealers with a brush just because yours doesn't know what it talking about.

[M-R-P]

So what your saying is YOUR dealer doesn't know what its doing and that all other dealers do! LOL.

With respect, you can't tar ALL dealers with a brush just because yours doesn't know what it talking about.

Of course, I wouldn't do that, I'm just offering my experience of the closest stealer to me. This particular stealer has a bad reputation and does little to remedy the situation because the only other Stealer in the area is owned by the same company.

However, I've had dealings with another group of dealers, of another brand and they were utterly useless. Happy to take 18k off me for a new car but when it started to fall apart (windscreen popped 5 times for no reason, steering rack failed twice, ecu failed, the list was endless) they didn't want to know and took over a year to sort the car, and then they did a poor job and damaged the body work.
Maybe I shouldn't tar everybody with the same brush but if every person in a red hat you've met has kicked you in the plumbs, you stay away from people in red hats.

;)

[stribo]

you get 90% of peak torque from 1950 rpm, however, the torque's not going to make it feel quick, just means it'll pull well from 1950, without necessarily accelerating quickly.

[960kg]

Yes, i will join in!

As i live in Kent as well i have three main Volvo dealers i can choose from Lipscombe,Maidstone....Lipscombe, Canterbury.....Lipscombe, Ashford.

Two of the three give fantastic service the other one ,not so good. So i use my favourite all the time.

I have been using them since 2001 and please don`t call them STEALERS as you get good quality lasting parts from Volvo Dealers and not all are expensive in fact some are quite a bit cheaper.

It is not there fault that you cannot afford the parts!.......my old relic of a V70 a phase 1 1997 and my S40 2001 get all the best parts and returns me with the best reliability.

If owners can see further than there nose the STEALERS are the copy cat brigade who manufacture parts they know you will buy again after 6months because they know they will be knackered.

So then you say to yourself i will buy the Volvo part next time and so end up with twice the inconvenience and paying nearly twice the price, especially with labour involved.

So who are the stealers and who has been taken for a ride??

[M-R-P]

Just to add a little something to the above... I was quoted over 17 quid EACH for a set of steering stops for my car from my local stealer. I went on fleabay and got a set of genuine ones for £18 the pair, delivered. When I looked at the return address, it was a dealership in Yorkshire somewhere iirc. That says to me that my local Stealer is just that.

They did a "health check" on my car, when I had the DIM done (btw, they didn't screw the DIM in, just held it in place with the cowl) and told me that...
the brake fluid needed changing (anybody with a bit of knowledge on the subject could spot that)
A shock was misting (again, anybody could see that)
The front discs were showing some wear... (they were 3mm BELOW the recommended limit at 21mm so "some" wear was an understatement)
One of the headlight wipers was worn (bloody thing was missing)
The spring on the fuel flap had failed (Duh! I could see the thing in the mirror every time I turned left)
They quoted (without me asking them to) over £800 to do the work and at no point did they notice my waste gate was jammed open.

I'm sure there are honest and skilled dealers out there but I can only go by my own experiences.

[oblark]

The people that go to main dealers are the ones who can afford the £80 an hour + vat labour charges and drive round in the latest models. The rest of us who drive around in 10 year + cars go to indepent volvo garages or buy OEM spes parts and fit them ourselfs.

I`ve brought two front wishbones off of ebay 5 years ago and they are showing no signs of wear after cover 20k miles. Some parts cheap parts do wear out quickly so you get what you pay for but OEM spec parts are good value for money.

[960kg]

Just to add a little something to the above... I was quoted over 17 quid EACH for a set of steering stops for my car from my local stealer. I went on fleabay and got a set of genuine ones for £18 the pair, delivered. When I looked at the return address, it was a dealership in Yorkshire somewhere iirc. That says to me that my local Stealer is just that.

They did a "health check" on my car, when I had the DIM done (btw, they didn't screw the DIM in, just held it in place with the cowl) and told me that...
the brake fluid needed changing (anybody with a bit of knowledge on the subject could spot that)
A shock was misting (again, anybody could see that)
The front discs were showing some wear... (they were 3mm BELOW the recommended limit at 21mm so "some" wear was an understatement)
One of the headlight wipers was worn (bloody thing was missing)
The spring on the fuel flap had failed (Duh! I could see the thing in the mirror every time I turned left)
They quoted (without me asking them to) over £800 to do the work and at no point did they notice my waste gate was jammed open.



I'm sure there are honest and skilled dealers out there but I can only go by my own experiences.


As i said in my post above.....look further than your own nose!

Why take it to a CRAP dealer when you know yourself what the answers will be, i don`t understand why you do that?

It is no good blinding your crap dealer with what knowledge you already know!....it does not impress them one little bit.

You would be better off putting your efforts into finding a better value for money dealer as i did.

As for using ebay parts!!!!.......i prefer to have a proper reliable Volvo and not a mongrel of a motor.

[960kg]

The people that go to main dealers are the ones who can afford the £80 an hour + vat labour charges and drive round in the latest models. The rest of us who drive around in 10 year + cars go to indepent volvo garages or buy OEM spes parts and fit them ourselfs.

I`ve brought two front wishbones off of ebay 5 years ago and they are showing no signs of wear after cover 20k miles. Some parts cheap parts do wear out quickly so you get what you pay for but OEM spec parts are good value for money.

As said just before, some of us do searching around and with my Volvo Dealers you can join there club for £90 and it covers the same car while in your ownership.

You get a lot of discount on the parts and on the labour charge, this is for 6year old cars and over, not new models. There is a great saving to be had on the £90 per hr labour charge (not £80) here in the South. Lee T5 has the same deal.

The MOT is half price as well every year.

20,000 in 5years is not much motoring for those wishbones but they won`t get anything like 160,000 or 15years as the Volvo part does. You must be near replacing now!

[M-R-P]

As i said in my post above.....look further than your own nose!
Why take it to a CRAP dealer when you know yourself what the answers will be, i don`t understand why you do that?
It is no good blinding your crap dealer with what knowledge you already know!....it does not impress them one little bit.
You would be better off putting your efforts into finding a better value for money dealer as i did.
As for using ebay parts!!!!.......i prefer to have a proper reliable Volvo and not a mongrel of a motor.

I only use genuine OE parts, that's why getting my car up to scratch has cost me over £3000 in the last 16 months. The DIM, clutch and timing belt were killers financially. the only work I've given my local stealer is the DIM and that was only because it couldn't be done anywhere else and there was very little they actually do - plug it in and go.
There are only 2 main stealers within 30 miles of me and as I said, both the same company and if I go any further, the chances of a free loan car while mine is in for work is pretty slim and I can't afford a rental. I have no need to use a dealer as there's a perfectly good, trusted garage near me that I use to do all the work I don't fancy doing myself.
My car has over 191000 miles on it, is 9 years old and is a bit rough around the edges so I have no need to maintain it within a warranty but in no way have I ever scrimped and used substandard parts in the car I carry my wife and son around in.

How come expressing an opinion, based on experience has led to me having to defend myself?

We're all on the same side and the idea of a public forum is to share knowledge, experience and knowledge etc. is it not?

[960kg]

I only use genuine OE parts, that's why getting my car up to scratch has cost me over £3000 in the last 16 months. The DIM, clutch and timing belt were killers financially. the only work I've given my local stealer is the DIM and that was only because it couldn't be done anywhere else and there was very little they actually do - plug it in and go.
There are only 2 main stealers within 30 miles of me and as I said, both the same company and if I go any further, the chances of a free loan car while mine is in for work is pretty slim and I can't afford a rental. I have no need to use a dealer as there's a perfectly good, trusted garage near me that I use to do all the work I don't fancy doing myself.
My car has over 191000 miles on it, is 9 years old and is a bit rough around the edges so I have no need to maintain it within a warranty but in no way have I ever scrimped and used substandard parts in the car I carry my wife and son around in.

How come expressing an opinion, based on experience has led to me having to defend myself?

We're all on the same side and the idea of a public forum is to share knowledge, experience and knowledge etc. is it not?

I agree with you totally Mr Peachy , but it was you that first mentioned crappy dealers and eBay.

I merely answered saying i look further than my nose for a valued dealer and keep to them, and that`s what others should do.

I don`t know why you defend yourself about anything you said?

[M-R-P]

I wasn't first to mention crappy dealers (post 23) merely adding my experiences to the discussion, as it seemed relevant at the time, although the discussion was originally about the benefits of a remap, the importance of good maintenance is undeniable.
Implying that I was in some way wrong to use the same crappy dealer (which I clearly used once, begrudgingly) or using parts from Ebay (which I did state were genuine and from a main dealer but half the price) was in some way going to turn my car into a mongrel does, believe it or not, require some defense, if only to set the record straight.

My idea of seeing past the end of my nose is realising I don't need to pay somebody £68 to change my brake fluid, when I can do it myself for £12.
Or spend £288 on having a front shock changed, when I can do both for £190 using OE parts.
How about £2000+ for clutch and flywheel job? DOUBLE the indy price, using the same parts.

What others should do is make up their own mind, deciding what's right for them, their car and their bank balance with help from a forum populated by enthusiasts. Not get ear-bashed for expressing their opinions.

Sorry to have brought your thread down James,

martinrpeachey

[d2k]

I wasn't first to mention crappy dealers (post 23) merely adding my experiences to the discussion, as it seemed relevant at the time, although the discussion was originally about the benefits of a remap, the importance of good maintenance is undeniable.
Implying that I was in some way wrong to use the same crappy dealer (which I clearly used once, begrudgingly) or using parts from Ebay (which I did state were genuine and from a main dealer but half the price) was in some way going to turn my car into a mongrel does, believe it or not, require some defense, if only to set the record straight.

My idea of seeing past the end of my nose is realising I don't need to pay somebody £68 to change my brake fluid, when I can do it myself for £12.
Or spend £288 on having a front shock changed, when I can do both for £190 using OE parts.
How about £2000+ for clutch and flywheel job? DOUBLE the indy price, using the same parts.

What others should do is make up their own mind, deciding what's right for them, their car and their bank balance with help from a forum populated by enthusiasts. Not get ear-bashed for expressing their opinions.

Sorry to have brought your thread down James,

martinrpeachey

stick THAT in yer pipe & smoke it '960kg'.....lol


martins right though, id repair my car the same way he does EVERY TIME, internet access & a good set of spanners, the assumption that an ebay bought item is somehow flaw'd b/c of that fact is ridiculous!! ... martins car is a true testament to what can be achieved when you have a go yourself..??, yes there were parts he couldnt do, but he still got it done far cheaper that at the stealers.

Volvo can keep their stupid service stamps, at this time in my cars life a FVSH is NOT relevant.....

[960kg]

Very true, as i do all my own maintenance, but do only use the best parts, Volvo parts.

Mind you my V70 T5 is a phase 1 which has no very expensive parts and is much easier to do ones own work.

None of this ETM or VVT or even DMS a much more £`sssssss friendly motor, and mine is very fast with an HLM 304 map and just as comfy as a phase 2 with more expensive maintenance.

But of course i still have the option of 20% or more of my labour charge if i need the good dealer i have.

Is your pipe big enough to put all that in Ha! ha!.....

[stephenevans99]

:B_offtopi
:saythat: