HID's?

[andybrown]

Hi Guys,

I read a while ago somewhere that HID's on volvos can flicker a lot and be a pain in the ass? im not happy with the standard bulb set up, and if i can get a cheapish HID kit i wouldn't mind fitting a set.

Any thoughts??

Andy :)

[M-R-P]

Just get better bulbs mate - I have a set of Ring XenonMax 55W bulbs for dipped, cheapo fleabay 100W HB3 bulbs for full beam and cheapo fleabay 100W H1s for my fogs.
Lovely bright light :D

[andybrown]

Just get better bulbs mate - I have a set of Ring XenonMax 55W bulbs for dipped, cheapo fleabay 100W HB3 bulbs for full beam and cheapo fleabay 100W H1s for my fogs.
Lovely bright light :D

I bought some posh Philips ones after reading loads of reviews, but they are cack :( I had HIDS on my old megane coupe and they were great.

[M-R-P]

My old nissan had nice lights, I put 90/130W H4 bulbs in that - instant daylight.

Just watch out for bulb failure warnings with HIDs, although I think the C70 will cope.

[daza-b]

i have HIDs and never have a problem with them :)

[M-R-P]

Yep, bloody P2 kicks - off tho :(

[JamesT5]

Hi

Odd this thread, because I was about to post a thread about it myself but rather than double up I thought I'd post in here...

I'm thinking of putting HID's on my 2001 T5 as I did it on a Skoda I had once and it made a big difference.

The thing is, the MOT laws are apparantly changing, so now the MOT testers will ckeck for alignment, self levelling and all sorts of pedantic stuff that never seemed to matter before. I was told by a local car spares place today, that the HID kits will have to be professionally installed or the car will likely fail the MOT. That's the official line.....

Now the reality. If you install a HID kit and you're worried about a fail on the test the solution is to whip them out for your MOT and replace them with standard bulbs, go for the test, pass, come home and then pop your HID's back in. :D

As for kits, I'm told the CANBUS kits are necessary for all Volvos since about 2000>.

Regards

James

[andybrown]

Hi

Now the reality. If you install a HID kit and you're worried about a fail on the test the solution is to whip them out for your MOT and replace them with standard bulbs, go for the test, pass, come home and then pop your HID's back in. :D

As for kits, I'm told the CANBUS kits are necessary for all Volvos since about 2000>.

Regards

James

Yeah they are really easy to take out and out back in. about 15 mins max.

Will my 99 c70 t5 need the canbus system?

[JamesT5]

Yeah they are really easy to take out and out back in. about 15 mins max.

Will my 99 c70 t5 need the canbus system?

If I'm honest with you I don't know but I would go for a CANBUS version just to be on the safe side. According to the HIDS4U website it's 2002> cars that need them but as the V70 changed styles in 2000 I will buy a CANBUS version, (you know what Volvo's are like with their electrics!!).

Personally, I'm going to go for a 55W version when I eventually do mine as it's 400% more light than a halogen bulb. They do 35W kits too that will be a whole lot brighter than the dull candles we drive around with as standard from Volvo. Remember you won't have to worry about the MOT centre getting picky over brightness as you can just whip the kit off for the test and bang some standard £5 Halfords bulbs in for the MOT.

I don't know how much your aware of the K rating so just in case, the higher the K rating the darker the colour but the less the light focus. The optimum for a nice ice white or slight blue tint is about 6000K. 8000K is more of a sky blue colour. I am cautious about going too dark incase the cops take an interest and pull you over but anything up to 8000K, possibly 10,000K should be ok. Personally, I'm likely to opt for a 6000K system and no more than 8000K for optimum light focus.

I don't know what bulb size/type your 1999 model has but assuming it's a dipped beam only kit you'll need on a H7 lamp fitting, here's a link to the 55W kit, below. If you have projector lamps it looks like you'll need to select the right option as there is two - either projector headlamps or reflector lamps. My 2001 model uses reflector lamps and the reflector lamp version has a special anti-glare shield on it to reflect the light on to the back of the headlamp unit. The projector version is just a D2S bulb (or similar), that slots into the projector lense on the car headlamp and the lense diffuses the light that way.....

http://www.hids4u.co.uk/H7-55w-Ultimate-Xenon-HID-Conversion-Kit-H7ULT3.html

Regards

James

[p fandango]

i've got HID's on dipped 35w, & on my main 55w on Bonny (52plate S60) & have no problems with bulb failure or any flickering

[LeeT5]

The thing is, the MOT laws are apparantly changing, so now the MOT testers will ckeck for alignment, self levelling and all sorts of pedantic stuff that never seemed to matter before. I was told by a local car spares place today, that the HID kits will have to be professionally installed or the car will likely fail the MOT. That's the official line.....



Actually that's not strictly true. The MOT tester won't care less who fitted your HID kit, even if it was fitted 'professionally'. The law states that a HID lamp unit must have self levelling and/or a headlamp wash/wipe capability. If you do not have these then your HID's will be illegal (in the eyes of the law and of course, the MOT tester).

Brightness won't come into it unless they are very obviously blue, in which case plod will take a dim view and make you remove them within 7 days in the very least.

Standard 'K' Kelvin rating for an oe HID bulb is 4300k. V70R/S60R are 4300k D2R bulbs. I have replaced mine with 6000k D2C bulbs and the difference is amazing. Not only is the light alot brighter but it's also whiter with a very faint blue halo (seen from a distance). There is also alot more light output because the D2C bulb does not have the black diffuser wrapped around the bulb.

In answer to the original question, flickering bulbs are usually due to cheap bulbs being used. The flickering is the glass chamber moving because the ceramic base is not sturdy enough to support the glass, so it vibrates. If you fit decent quality Phillips or other known brands then you won't experience this problem. If you experience a bulb turning itself on and off then this is usually the Ballast failing. Common fault on 03> R models. If you have a failed ballast then you can buy an original Valeo unit, brand new off ebay for £175 (i think). Just make sure the build date is post 2005 as pre 05 versions were rubbish.

I have experimented on different types of bulbs all my driving life and i wasted so much money on halogen bulbs that claim to be 60%, 80% or even 100% brighter. Some of the bulbs in Halfords now are ridiculously expensive, about £30 a pair!! Jesus, you could buy a decent HID kit for an extra £20 and get a true bulb that is 300% brighter than halogen. All the bulbs i have ever bought that weren't H.I.D are Crap and don't last 5 minutes. They make the element smaller so it burns hotter and therefore increases light output. The trade off is life expectancy. The bulbs i bought off ebay (cos i weren't going to pay £100 per bulb for a phillips unit from Volvo) are quality units and come with a two year guarantee. So, if a bulbs fails in less than two years, who cares?!
I think you just gotta be careful where you get your bulbs from off ebay. Some are hidiously cheap and like everything in life...you get what you pay for.
I think my bulbs were about £18 each which is cheaper than some halogen bulbs and a dam sight cheaper than oe.

[JamesT5]

[QUOTE=LeeT5;517977]Actually that's not strictly true. The MOT tester won't care less who fitted your HID kit, even if it was fitted 'professionally'. The law states that a HID lamp unit must have self levelling and/or a headlamp wash/wipe capability. If you do not have these then your HID's will be illegal (in the eyes of the law and of course, the MOT tester).[QUOTE]

The regulations state a wash facility AND a self levelling capability, rather than an "and/or".....

http://www.nidirect.gov.uk/customer-information-notice-cars-2010.pdf

The manufacture standard for K ratings is normally around 6000K, sometimes they use 7000 or even 8000K systems. Just looking at the colour you'll notice the tint is too blue for a diamond white 4500K colour temperature. My Skoda I used to have had 6000K HID's on as a manufacturer fitted option.

Regards

James

[T5frankie]

ive never had any problems with my hid kits with the working of them or mot time

[Wobbly Dave]

Only if fitted. past my MOT in May no probs with H7R HID bulbs fitted. Only provision for your car Andy is that the headlight wipers have to work, if you have HIDs fitted.

Self levelers were never fitted to that car & cannot be tested.

I have HID 4300K 35W systems fitted to both main & dipped. I use the H7R bulbs to reduce any glare.

[JamesT5]

To be honest, where can you go and buy a self levelling kit for a P2 V70, just like that? Answer is you can't, and so the VOSA have effectively outlawed after market HID kits.

In reality, the Police are not likely to pull you unless your lights are dazzling other drivers and the MOT test centre will pass your car if for the test, you reinstall your £4.99 each Halfords Halogen Candles.

[Wobbly Dave]

Why do you want to buy a self leveling kit?

[p fandango]

Self levelers were never fitted to that car & cannot be tested
its not a case of "if you haven't got it they can't test it", the point is you HAVE to have self-levelling to legally use HID's :slap:

[Wobbly Dave]

Sorry but you're wrong. You can only test stuff that is fitted. I have had this discussion at some length & reviewed the documentation from the ministry.

[p fandango]

Sorry but you're wrong. You can only test stuff that is fitted. I have had this discussion at some length & reviewed the documentation from the ministry.
is this really not written simple enough for you Dave?

quoted from the pdf file linked above

"Therefore, in order to pass the MOT test, vehicles fitted with after-market HID systems would also need to be fitted with headlamp cleaning and self-levelling systems otherwise this will be a reason for rejection"

[Wobbly Dave]

I've discussed this at length with 3 MOT testers - "tested if fitted".

Funny that - what with my car passing the test & all.

[p fandango]

Funny that - what with my car passing the test & all.
yeh, VOSA must of wrote it in just for fun :slap:

[LeeT5]

[QUOTE]

The regulations state a wash facility AND a self levelling capability, rather than an "and/or".....

http://www.nidirect.gov.uk/customer-information-notice-cars-2010.pdf

The manufacture standard for K ratings is normally around 6000K, sometimes they use 7000 or even 8000K systems. Just looking at the colour you'll notice the tint is too blue for a diamond white 4500K colour temperature. My Skoda I used to have had 6000K HID's on as a manufacturer fitted option.

Regards

James

Your right about levellers AND wash wipe...that obviously changed recently.


To be honest, where can you go and buy a self levelling kit for a P2 V70, just like that? Answer is you can't, and so the VOSA have effectively outlawed after market HID kits.

In reality, the Police are not likely to pull you unless your lights are dazzling other drivers and the MOT test centre will pass your car if for the test, you reinstall your £4.99 each Halfords Halogen Candles.

I agree.


Sorry but you're wrong. You can only test stuff that is fitted. I have had this discussion at some length & reviewed the documentation from the ministry.

P Fandango is right Dave. I don't care who you've discussed it with but if you have 'Aftermarket' HIDs on a car that was not originally designed to have them, then strictly, VOSA can fail your car, whether they dazzle or not! It doesn't mean they will fail it of course. Depends on the tester and how anal he want's to be.

Let's not turn this into a 'handbags at dawn thread' but lets face it ladies, your friendly MOT tester at your garage might know you and he may like your car!! Now he's unlikely to fail your car if you have a HID kit fitted "just because he can"! Not all MOT testers are Ars*ehole's, most are family men like you or I and just want a quiet life. There not gonna get that if they failed every car on silly things like having aftermarket HIDs.
However, if you haven't fitted them correctly or are using the wrong type of bulb and the light output is all over the place (Nova/saxo boys take note) then he would be stupid to let it through because he has a duty of care and he shouldn't allow you to be able to dazzle other drivers.

So here are some facts:

Projector type headlights must use D2S/C type bulbs (without anti glare shield)
Reflector type lights (ie V70R/S60R) must use D2R bulbs (with anti glare shield)
Volvo main dealer OE replacement D2R bulb is 4300k (not 6000k).

I had 6000k D2S bulbs in a Projector lamp on my old laser blue R and the light output was better than oe by miles, more importantly the light beam pattern was a crisp, perfect flat line then slant up on both sides. Once correctly aligned it sailed through MOTs without a question.

In my current R i have outed the oe fit 4300k D2R's because the colour in both bulbs was slightly out even thou they were both 4300k D2R bulbs, one was Philips and the other was OSRAM. For the record, the colour output changes in time which is why HID bulbs should always be replaced as pairs (thou nobody ever does) hense why you sometimes see different colour lights on cars with HIDs. One might be crisp white and the other have a slight yellow tinge.
I replaced them both with 6000k D2S, because the glass on my headlights is clean and the reflectors are not tarnished or dirty the amount of light that is wasted (ie Glare) is minimal and since fitting i am yet to have any other motorists flash me. They are incredibly bright and very white during the day. At night they have a blue tinge about the halo and the beam pattern is crisp. They too, of course, have passed an MOT without question.

Which leads me to say this; If you fit aftermarket HID's you must then get your headlamps alighned. You must also make sure the bulb is fitted correctly in the bulb housing (you wouldn't believe the amount of bulbs i see that have not been fitted properly, sitting half cocked in the housing).
You must use the correct type of bulb. If they look blue then they are blue (in the eyes of plod) and you WILL get tugged and issued a 7 day producer or worse case, made to take them out there and then. In which case, unless you have a spare set of H4/H1 or whatever, you gonna be illegal and unable to drive home.
4300k = OEM (Volvo use Philips)
5000k = (very rare bulb and offers little improvement over oe hense never seen)
6000k = pure white light with a slight blue tinge on the Halo.
8000k = Blue
10,000k = Purple (you will get nicked)
12,000k = Forget it. So little light output you won't see where your going at night!!

JamesT5...when i talk about OE fit i'm talking about Volvo not Skoda. I wouldn't know what Skoda fit as oe but being as Andybrown has a C70, it's kind of irrelevant.

[JamesT5]

I think the bottom line is that if we fit after market HID's to the car without a self leveller and wash facility, then some centres will pass them, some won't depending on how they interpret the regulations.

Personally, when I fit mine I will replace the HID kit with standard halogen 'candles' for the test and just be sensible about the K rating colour I choose and make sure I'm not blinding any Police cars. :D

Regards

James

[LeeT5]

I think the bottom line is that if we fit after market HID's to the car without a self leveller and wash facility, then some centres will pass them, some won't depending on how they interpret the regulations.

Personally, when I fit mine I will replace the HID kit with standard halogen 'candles' for the test and just be sensible about the K rating colour I choose and make sure I'm not blinding any Police cars. :D

Regards

James

If your sensible then you should be fine and you won't need to swap them out for an MOT. The main reason for an MOT tester failing your lights if they are HIDs is not because they are HIDs byt because the beam pattern is all over the place. With the correct bulb and the right colour temp you'll be fine.

[Sharkey R]

Actually that's not strictly true. The MOT tester won't care less who fitted your HID kit, even if it was fitted 'professionally'. The law states that a HID lamp unit must have self levelling and/or a headlamp wash/wipe capability. If you do not have these then your HID's will be illegal (in the eyes of the law and of course, the MOT tester).

Brightness won't come into it unless they are very obviously blue, in which case plod will take a dim view and make you remove them within 7 days in the very least.

Standard 'K' Kelvin rating for an oe HID bulb is 4300k. V70R/S60R are 4300k D2R bulbs. I have replaced mine with 6000k D2C bulbs and the difference is amazing. Not only is the light alot brighter but it's also whiter with a very faint blue halo (seen from a distance). There is also alot more light output because the D2C bulb does not have the black diffuser wrapped around the bulb.

In answer to the original question, flickering bulbs are usually due to cheap bulbs being used. The flickering is the glass chamber moving because the ceramic base is not sturdy enough to support the glass, so it vibrates. If you fit decent quality Phillips or other known brands then you won't experience this problem. If you experience a bulb turning itself on and off then this is usually the Ballast failing. Common fault on 03> R models. If you have a failed ballast then you can buy an original Valeo unit, brand new off ebay for £175 (i think). Just make sure the build date is post 2005 as pre 05 versions were rubbish.

I have experimented on different types of bulbs all my driving life and i wasted so much money on halogen bulbs that claim to be 60%, 80% or even 100% brighter. Some of the bulbs in Halfords now are ridiculously expensive, about £30 a pair!! Jesus, you could buy a decent HID kit for an extra £20 and get a true bulb that is 300% brighter than halogen. All the bulbs i have ever bought that weren't H.I.D are Crap and don't last 5 minutes. They make the element smaller so it burns hotter and therefore increases light output. The trade off is life expectancy. The bulbs i bought off ebay (cos i weren't going to pay £100 per bulb for a phillips unit from Volvo) are quality units and come with a two year guarantee. So, if a bulbs fails in less than two years, who cares?!
I think you just gotta be careful where you get your bulbs from off ebay. Some are hidiously cheap and like everything in life...you get what you pay for.
I think my bulbs were about £18 each which is cheaper than some halogen bulbs and a dam sight cheaper than oe.

Lee you wouldn't happen to have the link to the bulbs you bought would you? I bought a set of d2r 6000k bulbs off fleabay and paid around £18 for the pair and they are definitely whiter than the standard 4300k HIDs but after driving for the first time in the dark this morning since fitting them they seem significantly dimmer than standard.

[LeeT5]

Lee you wouldn't happen to have the link to the bulbs you bought would you? I bought a set of d2r 6000k bulbs off fleabay and paid around £18 for the pair and they are definitely whiter than the standard 4300k HIDs but after driving for the first time in the dark this morning since fitting them they seem significantly dimmer than standard.

Try these:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HID-XENON-D2S-6000K-BULBS-PAIR-HI-QUALITY-/220308606276?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item334b6a8d44

Note: These are D2S not D2R. I now have D2S and the light output is vastly improved. You must have your headlamps aligned by Volvo afterwards mate. Up to you, but i had a SUM calibration done too as this ensured correct operation of the lights in relation to suspension.