200 mph 850?

[sundog]

the main ambition for my project volvo it to break 200mph in it, is anyone aware of any volvos doing a genuine 200+mph already.

just trying to build up the ideas,

please share your thoughts thanks :hidesbehi

[martybelfastt5]

quickest ive seen is jc viggens volvo 850 t5r tho im not sure the gearbox allows 200 could be wrong tho think his did around 180

[stephenevans99]

I'm certainly no expert, but I feel aerodynamics will be the biggest hurdle. You could have all the hp in the world, but an 850 is still an 850 !!

[Tim Williams]

IIRC MTE have managed over 200MPH in their tuned S60R.

I very much doubt you will get an 850 over 200MPH on the stock gearing and it would take quite a bit of space also. I have run quite a few Volvo's at Bruntingthorpe and not managed over 170MPH but none had nearly enough power to do 200MPH. On a derestricted road I can get 177MPH out of mine on standard gearing but only 170MPH at Bruntingthorpe...

JC Viggens maxed out at about 155 after the diff was fitted due to being a lower than stock ratio box for his car.

[sundog]

yeah, ive been reading through loads of posts and people are saying with the rev limiter intact the most you can get is 162mph. but im sure someone has found gear kits or made gear kits for higher top speeds, even tyre circumference would have some effect on the gearing how much so i do not know.

[Kingsford G]

U`ll need a high ratio g/box for that mate.

[sundog]

i think i can make the aerodynamics a little better i mean there isnt really alot of frontal area on them so i guess its making the most of turbulence and cutting the air right first.

dont go to hard on my dreams haha

[dalhousie2008]

I think martin said some v70 p2 could get near with gearing

[sundog]

sorry whats a p2?

i have an early 850 saloon was my grandads now my inheritance and judging by the cars he used to have i want to make this special. i have currently collected an me7? engine from a v70r for a very irresistible price, just getting ideas and waiting for a daily car to come along so i can get started.

[t5_monkey]

you can calculate the power required.

If you have 250bhp and 150mph top speed.....

divide 200 by 150 and square the result (1.777)

so you need 1.777 times 250 which is 444bhp.

plus 10 percent for fudge factor plus you'll never get a runway long enough to actually reach top speed @ 200mph...

= 490bhp

Of course... you may also die if you attempt this :-)

At the speed every bit of wind resistance counts so consider aerodynamic wheel trims, removing the wing mirrors, waxing the car and taping panel gaps (and covering the radiator)

[T5frankie]

yeah, ive been reading through loads of posts and people are saying with the rev limiter intact the most you can get is 162mph. but im sure someone has found gear kits or made gear kits for higher top speeds, even tyre circumference would have some effect on the gearing how much so i do not know.

the m59 will max out at 162 mph, seen it on then dyno

[M-R-P]

P2 (Phase 2 - same shape as mine) some of the gearboxes, usually specified by plod, are capeable of 192mph @6000rpm in 5th. It's called the M56LK (I know, I got one **ahem143 in 4th ahem** ;))
Pedro was telling me about another box that'll do about 195 @6000rpm.

[t5_monkey]

the m59 will max out at 162 mph, seen it on then dyno

must be short gearing? S40 is 30mph / 1000 and runs to 6500rpm (195 theoretical)

[sundog]

that wouldn't take into account the increase in drag and turbulence though would it? and that seems a fairly achievable sum of power from some of the builds i have read on here. :D

[sundog]

P2 (Phase 2 - same shape as mine) some of the gearboxes, usually specified by plod, are capeable of 192mph @6000rpm in 5th. It's called the M56LK (I know, I got one **ahem143 in 4th ahem** ;))
Pedro was telling me about another box that'll do about 195 @6000rpm.

192!? soo close! another thing for the shopping list :P

[T5frankie]

must be short gearing? S40 is 30mph / 1000 and runs to 6500rpm (195 theoretical)

think your doing your sums wrong mate, so your saying your car in 6th at 150mph is just ticking over?

[t5_monkey]

think your doing your sums wrong mate, so your saying your car in 6th at 150mph is just ticking over?

6.5 x 30 =..... 195

5x30 = 150 mph so it will be doing 5000rpm - which I wouldn't call ticking over but still 45mph to run to the redline if you had the power.

[M-R-P]

192!? soo close! another thing for the shopping list :P

That's at 6000rpm mate, I've had 7100 out of mine and you can always have the limiter moved or removed ;)

[sundog]

sounds perfect! what are the limiters like on the turbo engines mines lethal if you get carried away in my n/a its like slamming the brakes on :P

[T5frankie]

6.5 x 30 =..... 195

5x30 = 150 mph so it will be doing 5000rpm - which I wouldn't call ticking over but still 45mph to run to the redline if you had the power.

so you are saying at 60 your car is doing 2000rpms and at 90 only 3000rpms, i think you find it won't test it when you get the chance, so you got through the 1/4 mile in 3rd gear out of 6?

[M-R-P]

Dunno, never hit my limiter lol, but boost cut in an 850 is like slamming the breaks on:eek:

[daza-b]

tie the car to a plane, then 200+ is very easy achievable ;) lol

[p fandango]

gear ratios & speeds LINK (http://www.box.com/s/ex7qq94bxsr76680jyd8)

[M-R-P]

gear ratios & speeds LINK (http://www.box.com/s/ex7qq94bxsr76680jyd8)

Aaah, there he is ;)

Evening mate:)

[sundog]

tie the car to a plane, then 200+ is very easy achievable ;) lol

looking likt the cheapest way to go! although the guy i collected my engine from had an old espace with a rolls royce jet engine in the back, remind me again at what point a volvo stops being a volvo :lol:

[T5frankie]

an m56lk with rev limiter removed then, your car must be really slow with that gearing martin?

[Al115]

I looked very casually at doing this a while back, with a mate. We concluded we'd need two engines, one in the front and one in the back, and a pretty serious gearbox.

[sundog]

an m56lk with rev limiter removed then, your car must be really slow with that gearing martin?

one thing sorted on a very long list then :ready2go:

its a good job in still only 20. this could take the rest of my life! either way it WILL be done

[sundog]

I looked very casually at doing this a while back, with a mate. We concluded we'd need two engines, one in the front and one in the back, and a pretty serious gearbox.

how so? that seems mighty extreme! would be good fun though!

[M-R-P]

an m56lk with rev limiter removed then, your car must be really slow with that gearing martin?

Why do you think my 50-100 was only in 3rd? 4th and 5th aren't much fun. good for cruisin on the motorway. I'll check what 50 and 80 mph are on the rev counter in 4th and 5th sometime.

Here's something I did notice, the rev needle moves at the exact same angle and speed as the speedo needle in 4th. - 150mph = 7100 rpm (approx - didn't have enough runway to find out)

[t5_monkey]

so you are saying at 60 your car is doing 2000rpms and at 90 only 3000rpms, i think you find it won't test it when you get the chance, so you got through the 1/4 mile in 3rd gear out of 6?

yep exactly! and yes do the 1/4 in 3rd

[p fandango]

Aaah, there he is ;)

Evening mate:)
lol you know i like gear ratios. How's things? What gearbox you got Martin, i thought it used to say in your signature lol

[M-R-P]

It's like stirring a bucket of bricks with a biro. next time I make a fuss about it will be when it goes crunch lol.

[Tim Williams]

you can calculate the power required.

If you have 250bhp and 150mph top speed.....

divide 200 by 150 and square the result (1.777)

so you need 1.777 times 250 which is 444bhp.

plus 10 percent for fudge factor plus you'll never get a runway long enough to actually reach top speed @ 200mph...

= 490bhp

Of course... you may also die if you attempt this :-)

At the speed every bit of wind resistance counts so consider aerodynamic wheel trims, removing the wing mirrors, waxing the car and taping panel gaps (and covering the radiator)

If only drag worked like that...

[sundog]

If only drag worked like that...

tell me all you know ;)

[merc85]

Mine hit's the second digit in from the end of the trip meter how ever fast that is lol?

[M-R-P]

tell me all you know ;)

You do realise that could take a while :D

[sundog]

i have all the time required, theres only so much you can get from books, specially when most of them are based in america on cars with completely different characteristics

[LiamT4]

Drag is the main problem, its exponential, the higher the speed the higher the drag, so the faster you go the more power is needed for every 1mph increase.

Witht the right gearing it would be possible, but i think you would need over 600bhp.

[Al115]

i have all the time required

Yeah but I'm not sure he does :D

[t5_monkey]

Remember you'll need special tyres and you'd be most foolish to try this without a full roll cage, harness etc...

[JUDGENINJA]

If I can build my engine to rev to 8500 then I just might make it!!

[sundog]

Remember you'll need special tyres and you'd be most foolish to try this without a full roll cage, harness etc...

i barley feel safe driving normally on the road without a cage and buckets. its top of my list :)

[T5frankie]

yep exactly! and yes do the 1/4 in 3rd

Well that's a pointless gearbox then If can only do 149 mph with the ratios it has, could be clot quicker with shorter, ratios

[t5_monkey]

Well that's a pointless gearbox then If can only do 149 mph with the ratios it has, could be clot quicker with shorter, ratios

I believe 149 is in 5th @ 6000rpm ..6th is a cruising gear.

Means I get 37 to the gallon the M-way ... so I'm not complaining!

[AndysR]

All you manual boys......

If the lowely 4sp auto could cope with the power you'd be doing 200 mph @ just a smidge over 7,000 rpm.... :bow_kneel

[lance]

I reckon with the 6 speed box fitted to the Focus T5s and an upgraded 500 BHP RS Focus engine with a 7000 peak power band it would easy crack it as monkey says 90 MPH is aprox 3k rpm in 6th

[LiamT4]

The E60 M5 can just crack 200mph, that has 507bhp with a drag coefficient .30, but it also has 7 gears.

and i'm pretty sure that it took over 600bhp for the first sierra cosworth in britain to get past 200mph (mad rod, M A devolopments car? or am i getting confused)

[T5frankie]

The E60 M5 can just crack 200mph, that has 507bhp with a drag coefficient .30, but it also has 7 gears.

and i'm pretty sure that it took over 600bhp for the first sierra cosworth in britain to get past 200mph (mad rod, M A devolopments car? or am i getting confused)

my old 424bhp cossie was an m.a developments car, speedo didnt work though lol

[AndysR]

my old 424bhp cossie was an m.a developments car, speedo didnt work though lol

Any cossie with a chip and an exhaust is a 200 mph isn't it? lol

[AndysR]

The E60 M5 can just crack 200mph, that has 507bhp with a drag coefficient .30, but it also has 7 gears.

and i'm pretty sure that it took over 600bhp for the first sierra cosworth in britain to get past 200mph (mad rod, M A devolopments car? or am i getting confused)

Yes, the same guy did some calculations for an 850 and said it would require slightly less power for the 850 to do the same ;)

[t5_monkey]

The E60 M5 can just crack 200mph, that has 507bhp with a drag coefficient .30, but it also has 7 gears.

and i'm pretty sure that it took over 600bhp for the first sierra cosworth in britain to get past 200mph (mad rod, M A devolopments car? or am i getting confused)

Sorry to be a geek but it's Cda (coefficient drag area) you need rather than just the Cd.

BMW is a big car, so although slippery there's more of it, so it needs more power.

and IIRC It's 29.8mph/1000 for the S40.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/content/download/59275/1601412/version/4/file/RT_2005-Volvo-S40-T5_data.pdf << full data sheet

[Nathlm]

Our old V70 T5 2001 would top out at about 170MPH even with hybrid turbo, raised rev limit and Vmax removed and that was using the whole length of France. :bounce:

[popuptoaster]

I have friends who are trying to get a Mk1 Escort to 200mph, 450ish bhp takes one up to around 185mph, they have mates who took a Sierra cossie up to 214mph, it needed 800bhp, the door mirrors taking off and all the panel gaps taping up with gaffer tape.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gvkk7GENhHk

[Niles]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=W7DutWKDtyI

[p fandango]

once BT gets the gearbox i want, & a TT to raise the rev limiter she'll have a theoretical top speed of 213mph lol

[M-R-P]

once BT gets the gearbox i want, & a TT to raise the rev limiter she'll have a theoretical top speed of 213mph lol

And running off a lethal mixture of alcohol and nitrous oxide


- and that's just the driver ;)

[PaulZX]

once BT gets the gearbox i want, & a TT to raise the rev limiter she'll have a theoretical top speed of 213mph lol

I volunteer myself as test pilot, if you wanna prove that pedro.... ;)

[popuptoaster]

I had a 3.44 diff in my 24v Cortina, it used to hit the rev limiter at 131mph in 5th gear, so I hunted down a 7.5" 4 stud Mustang rear axle as its was around the right width, had the right stud pattern and was strong enough for what I needed while still being a sensible weight.

Can't remember the diff ratio but it had a theoretical top speed of 190 something. :D

[y2blade]

following with interest.

[p fandango]

And running off a lethal mixture of alcohol and nitrous oxide


- and that's just the driver ;)
i'm disgusted you think i'd waste Nos by inhaling it lol


I volunteer myself as test pilot, if you wanna prove that pedro.... ;)
you wouldn't be saying that once you've seen the state she's in now lol. I was in Skeg Vegas last weekend, your alright for fish & chip shops & mini-golf there aren't you lol

[Al115]

I have friends who are trying to get a Mk1 Escort to 200mph, 450ish bhp takes one up to around 185mph, they have mates who took a Sierra cossie up to 214mph, it needed 800bhp, the door mirrors taking off and all the panel gaps taping up with gaffer tape.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gvkk7GENhHk

That guy is brave to run 200mph without so much as a crash helmet!!!

[sundog]

i have been looking at that sierra some of the other videos with it struggling to get any traction to accelerate turns me on slightly!

surly the dca of the volvo 850 cant be that much worse than a sierra :P certainly better than a 740!

anyone know how to work out drag? :D

[M-R-P]

Yeah, skirt + adam's apple + leg hair = drag (or french bird)

[sundog]

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q181/sundog_ses/P1080412.jpg

the car in question complete with monster car stance, on another note them poly engine steady's are pretty hard! my whole dash rattles when(if it wants to) at idle

couldn't help day dreaming on my way home from work about a home brew wind/smoke tunnel :)

[stephenevans99]

anyone know how to work out drag? :D

Try this website:

http://ecomodder.com/forum/tool-aero-rolling-resistance.php

Although just looking at it gives my humble brain a rupture !!

[popuptoaster]

Sierras are quite slippy, and the 2wd Saph was the lightest cossie version, 151mph wasn't bad from just over 200bhp. The granny cossie with 195 bhp only managed 135 to 140mph depending on who you believe.


You have to take into account airflow is different at different speeds as well, I dunno what speed manufacrurers work out drag, I know Ford say the droop snoot mk2 RS2000 is more aerodynamic than a mk1, but our guys found that the mk1 needs less power than the droop snoot to hit higher speeds so something happens at 150mph plus.

They suspect the flat front builds up a high pressure "bubble" and the air slides round it and up the more sloped bonnet while the droopsnoot cuts through better but the flatter bonnet makes it work harder at high speed.

The rear of a mk1 also tapers in more than a mk2 does.

[sundog]

i guess sierras front end is at a slight angle compared to the perpendicular front end of the volvo. but that sierra had no use of flat flooring a splitter which are in the picture i see in my head

[Flatout Phil]

U`ll need a high ratio g/box for that mate.

Or fit gigantic tyres ;)

[sundog]

Or fit gigantic tyres ;)

wheel clearance cut out to the rear window ftw! :saythat:

[T5frankie]

19's give a longer ratio by quite a bit

[stribo]

Sierras are quite slippy, and the 2wd Saph was the lightest cossie version, 151mph wasn't bad from just over 200bhp. The granny cossie with 195 bhp only managed 135 to 140mph depending on who you believe.


You have to take into account airflow is different at different speeds as well, I dunno what speed manufacrurers work out drag, I know Ford say the droop snoot mk2 RS2000 is more aerodynamic than a mk1, but our guys found that the mk1 needs less power than the droop snoot to hit higher speeds so something happens at 150mph plus.

They suspect the flat front builds up a high pressure "bubble" and the air slides round it and up the more sloped bonnet while the droopsnoot cuts through better but the flatter bonnet makes it work harder at high speed.

The rear of a mk1 also tapers in more than a mk2 does.

The Grannies only came with the power sapping auto transmission though, which didn't help.

[popuptoaster]

i guess sierras front end is at a slight angle compared to the perpendicular front end of the volvo. but that sierra had no use of flat flooring a splitter which are in the picture i see in my head

To be honest I dont know what he did underneath it, I do know it wasnt just a matter of bunging in a high power engine.



The Grannies only came with the power sapping auto transmission though, which didn't help.

True, but it did have a lock out top gear and I had one converted with a proper v6 MT75 Manual box (thats the one that went into my Cortina) and it would only ever read 145 on the speedo which was probably closer to 130mph.

[smithy]

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q181/sundog_ses/P1080412.jpg

the car in question complete with monster car stance, on another note them poly engine steady's are pretty hard! my whole dash rattles when(if it wants to) at idle

couldn't help day dreaming on my way home from work about a home brew wind/smoke tunnel :)

thats a mk1 850 i had 1 of those with a 2.5 20v on a 2.0 20v box very quick car mate.mine was an estate though.

[sundog]

yeah so far i've learnt there really hard to get headlights for haha.

mine was fairly quick but it seems to be dying :( it used to go to the end of the speedo now it wont go past the 100 marker, its only done 100k regularly serviced new cam sensor etc. but never mind as soon as i get a run around it can be stripped and consume all of my spare time :)

[T5frankie]

funky big button interior too lol, is it blue dash?

[sundog]

narr all beige! absolutely awful! :D

[LiamT4]

Sorry to be a geek but it's Cda (coefficient drag area) you need rather than just the Cd.

BMW is a big car, so although slippery there's more of it, so it needs more power.

and IIRC It's 29.8mph/1000 for the S40.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/content/download/59275/1601412/version/4/file/RT_2005-Volvo-S40-T5_data.pdf << full data sheet

I really doubt a t5 will do 200mph with less than 500bhp.


I have friends who are trying to get a Mk1 Escort to 200mph, 450ish bhp takes one up to around 185mph, they have mates who took a Sierra cossie up to 214mph, it needed 800bhp, the door mirrors taking off and all the panel gaps taping up with gaffer tape.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gvkk7GENhHk

Thats the one i'm talking about.


Yes, the same guy did some calculations for an 850 and said it would require slightly less power for the 850 to do the same ;)

But what power was the cossie running to first crack 200mph? In the above vid its running nearly 800bhp, but past 200mph with ease.

[Wobbly Dave]

I've kinda stumbled on this - and I have to say this is the single most pointless thread ever.

[p fandango]

I've kinda stumbled on this - and I have to say this is the single most pointless thread ever.
you didn't have to say anything, i manage to click on another thread if the current one i'm reading has no interest to me. I'd of thought working with computers you'd be able to do the same

[LiamT4]

I've kinda stumbled on this - and I have to say this is the single most pointless thread ever.

Lots of threads are pointless dave, i find it interesting to read what people think it would take to get an 850 to 200mph.

[popuptoaster]

But what power was the cossie running to first crack 200mph?


I'm not sure, but i think there is some serious underestimation of the required power going on in this thread.


Consider this, a late 2 litre injection Sierra had 125bhp and could do 118mph,

the cossie has 204bhp or there abouts and did 151mph, it needed an extra 75bhp to get an extra 30ish mph.


A volvo 940 2.3 LPT has 136bhp and does 118mph,

the same car with the 163bhp HPT engine does 127, thats 30bhp extra required for just 10mph improvement.


As you try to add speed, you need more and more power to keep accelerating, if you have a 100bhp car that does 100mph, adding another 100bhp will not make it do 200mph.

That last 10mph between 190 and 200mph may well take 200 or 300bhp just for that little bit.

[LiamT4]

I agree, theres a lot more into it that people think. Weight, gear ratios, drag, power, tyres.

Wasn't there something about the veyron needs about 250bhp to reach 150mph, it needs the other 750bhp to do the next 100mph.

[smithy]

I'm not sure, but i think there is some serious underestimation of the required power going on in this thread.


Consider this, a late 2 litre injection Sierra had 125bhp and could do 118mph,

the cossie has 204bhp or there abouts and did 151mph, it needed an extra 75bhp to get an extra 30ish mph.


A volvo 940 2.3 LPT has 136bhp and does 118mph,

the same car with the 163bhp HPT engine does 127, thats 30bhp extra required for just 10mph improvement.


As you try to add speed, you need more and more power to keep accelerating, if you have a 100bhp car that does 100mph, adding another 100bhp will not make it do 200mph.

That last 10mph between 190 and 200mph may well take 200 or 300bhp just for that little bit.

i wonder what mine will do topend with 140 bhp monster 940

[LiamT4]

i wonder what mine will do topend with 140 bhp monster 940

Maybe 120mph?

[smithy]

Maybe 120mph?

i can get that easy in 4th lol

[LiamT4]

i can get that easy in 4th lol

You'll probably go faster than my car anyway, mines restricted to 155mph.

Untill its gets a remap that is.:wink:

[smithy]

You'll probably go faster than my car anyway, mines restricted to 155mph.

Untill its gets a remap that is.:wink:

i would like to go head to head to see how my 140 bhp 940 would go against bmw v8 monster on top speed run when your limiter is off.

[LiamT4]

i would like to go head to head to see how my 140 bhp 940 would go against bmw v8 monster on top speed run when your limiter is off.

Would make a good vid for youtube, "bmw 540 getting pasted by a 140bhp volvo". lol

Question is where? Need a runway, but bruntingthorpe is way to expensive to use the whole 2mile straight.

[smithy]

Would make a good vid for youtube, "bmw 540 getting pasted by a 140bhp volvo". lol

Question is where? Need a runway, but bruntingthorpe is way to expensive to use the whole 2mile straight.

the has got to be somewhere that can be done and can a slow 940 beat a big power bmw v8 mate

[LiamT4]

the has got to be somewhere that can be done and can a slow 940 beat a big power bmw v8 mate

I may have a chance top end, but you'll be a lot quicker getting there.......even though you do only have 140bhp. lol

[Wobbly Dave]

Lots of threads are pointless dave, i find it interesting to read what people think it would take to get an 850 to 200mph.
the number's alone mean that the FWD option is a non-starter - even if you could gear it up there.

Is this for real - are we planning some trip to the Bonneville salt flats or Pendine Sands?

I am just trying to understand the context in which this 850 is to be created?

[p fandango]

the number's alone mean that the FWD option is a non-starter - even if you could gear it up there
perhaps you should read this LINK (http://www.vagoc.co.uk/vb/showthread.php?t=8346)

[Wobbly Dave]

I take it all back - I'll just go get my coat.

[LiamT4]

I'm not botherd if anyones actually going to build it, just find the idea interesting.

I think skoda took an octavia, which was fwd, past 200mph a few months back.