Odd dyno results....can't think of a cause.

[T5rookie]

Ok my 850 T5 saloon...

90k on the engine
12bar compression on all cylinders
New oil
New coolant
New thermostat
K&n cone filter

HLM 304 ECU(oddly the ecu does have T5r marker penned on the side of it.)

Ok so it went on the dyno this morning, the drive down was great, lots more grunt from the map and compared to cars I have had previously in all power ranges, damn nippy.....at very least 250bhp were my thoughts.

Dyno result was 219bhp and 255lbs/ft torque.....On one of the runs it made 183!!

This was at Rising Sun Performance, a well knopwn jap tuner......it was an SXOC day and mine was not the only worrying result. My mates 306 gti-6 with 60k on the clock, induction and exhaust, made 143bhp.....24 less than factory. Then a mates e46 330d made 162bhp......25bhp less than standard.

All our engines are healthy and low mileage and it seemed odd that we all had low figures........One of the 200sx's read 480 on another rolling road last month and it read 400 today?????

So is this a dodgy mong who can't operate a dyno? Or do we all have problems?

I was expecting a minimum of 250 with the k&n and HLM 304.....Not 6bhp less than stock on a strong engine.

Whats the deal here?? Fuelling was a little rich topend but off the shelf maps tend to be that way for safety.

[T5rookie]

He also said his dyno normally over reads so our figures were accurate if not generous.

I shpuld stress its flywheel figures I am talking here.

[merc85]

My Dyno i had done on a Old School Machine at T & M colchester.

My 855 t5 Gave 270bhp flywheel 238.1 at the wheels. 152k on the clock.

But absolutly wipes the floor with my mate's 2008 285 bhp Curpa k1.

Going to go down to AMD and get another test done just out of interest.

[T5rookie]

it was a dyno dynamics rolling road which are normally pretty accurate.....a few of the guys drove my car down the a31 for a quick blast and they all said it felt way too aggressive to be 219bhp.

Does the torque figure sound right?

[The Flying Moose]

To be honest it sounds under.

I have experienced three cars all with HLM 304 Ecu's which when RR'd produced around the 250bhp mark at the fly and roughly 230 at the wheels. I stress this as some had other modifications and as such recieved higher/lower figures.

As for your torque that also seems a little low.

I would expect results like that on an accurate dyno to be coming from a bog standard T5. If you say thats at the fly then you must have around 195 wheel hp... thats way down.

[merc85]

Seems abit high for the BHP figure

Standard 850 t5r 240bhp is about 330nms which is 243ft lbs

You sure it's been remaped

[T5rookie]

So I can't see a mechanical reason why......unless as I suspect the guy running the dyno was a tard!

I am around 40bhp down and with no boost leak.....very good compression, no missfiring, good fueling et etc...

It outdragged my mates 330d which measured 290lbs/ft torque on the dyno, with ease....which makes even less sense, unless he did a 3rd gear pull rather than 4th?? Or the air con on?

After France I'm gonna get my mate Charlie to run it at his dyno, Surrey Rolling Road.

Its much quicker than it was and wasn't slow to start with....which means my figure on stock ECU would have read in the region of 190 at the flywheel....Which would be seriously noticable I imagine.

[T5rookie]

Seems abit high for the BHP figure

Standard 850 t5r 240bhp is about 330nms which is 243ft lbs

You sure it's been remaped

I put the ecu in, and have the seat time to know it has made a big big difference.

16psi wouldn't be a stock boost level

[merc85]

I put the ecu in, and have the seat time to know it has made a big big difference.

16psi wouldn't be a stock boost level

Thats correct

[craigoodwood]

mine was way lower than i wanted couple of weeks ago, since then i have fitted a new fuel filter which also had a blocked feed pipe, a split boost pipe on the idle valve and swapped a none volvo AFM for a gen bosch one and the car is now staggeringly quick, the boost rises nice and smooth and peaks at 1.2 bar boost where it stays :)

[T5frankie]

16 psi should be around 245-250 bhp mate, get it done somewhere else maybe another rolling road day? lol

[T5rookie]

yeah I'm thinking its the dyno as there are so many tiny adjustments that can give dodgy readings....

Where are the fuel filters on these cars?? All parts seem genuine so not worries there but I would like to investigate the fuel filter option as the car was just a weekend toy for 15 years. Might have bunged up the filter a bit with old fuel or dirt from the bottom of the tank.

Alex

[merc85]

yeah I'm thinking its the dyno as there are so many tiny adjustments that can give dodgy readings....

Where are the fuel filters on these cars?? All parts seem genuine so not worries there but I would like to investigate the fuel filter option as the car was just a weekend toy for 15 years. Might have bunged up the filter a bit with old fuel or dirt from the bottom of the tank.

Alex

O/S/R in front of the rear tyre behind the sill, be patient with the push fit conectors.

[T5rookie]

Well I can't source one tomorrow and the cars in for water pump on Monday so will fit one on the tuesday for piece of mind!

List I have done so far in 2 weeks:

Lowering Springs
HLM 304
New oil
New coolant
New thermostat
Air filter
Poly engine mount
Compression test
Bulb replacement
Wheel respray

Water pump
fuel filter

Getting there!

[merc85]

Well I can't source one tomorrow and the cars in for water pump on Monday so will fit one on the tuesday for piece of mind!

List I have done so far in 2 weeks:

Lowering Springs
HLM 304
New oil
New coolant
New thermostat
Air filter
Poly engine mount
Compression test
Bulb replacement
Wheel respray

Water pump
fuel filter

Getting there!

Well done mate , thats good going in 2 wks

[JUDGENINJA]

Well I can't source one tomorrow and the cars in for water pump on Monday so will fit one on the tuesday for piece of mind!

List I have done so far in 2 weeks:

Lowering Springs
HLM 304
New oil
New coolant
New thermostat
Air filter
Poly engine mount
Compression test
Bulb replacement
Wheel respray

Water pump
fuel filter

Getting there!

You have been busy, maybe when you get back we should run side by side on the rolling road to get consistant figures.

Maybe even a southern softies event?

[T5rookie]

Yeah would be cool.....if there is enough interest I can ask Charlie at Surrey Rolling Road to have an owners club dyno day...

I will do the fuel filter and see how she behaves....What else have I got filter of fluids wise that could sway a dyno result.....Not loads really....maybe fuel pump but it seems to cope fine with the remap.

[jayeastanglia]

Well I can't source one tomorrow and the cars in for water pump on Monday so will fit one on the tuesday for piece of mind!

List I have done so far in 2 weeks:

Lowering Springs
HLM 304
New oil
New coolant
New thermostat
Air filter
Poly engine mount
Compression test
Bulb replacement
Wheel respray

Water pump
fuel filter

Getting there!

simlar mods to mine except i also got a blank on the recirc valve on mine..I got 243hp and 338lb torque at the fly at hlm a few weeks ago which isnt bad considering my milage and that was on 95 unleaded petrol..my filter was well rusty and hadnt been done for ages by the look of it when i first got my car,spray the fuel pipe connectors with wd40 or simlar the day before and let it soak in,check your spark plugs and leads are all ok. oh yeah mines boosting by my gauge 12psi or about 2mm from the end of the stock gauge

[LiamT4]

Ahh dynos, don't you just love them. lol

Did any of the sxoc people have any strange results?

[T5frankie]

simlar mods to mine except i also got a blank on the recirc valve on mine..I got 243hp and 338lb torque at the fly at hlm a few weeks ago which isnt bad considering my milage and that was on 95 unleaded petrol..my filter was well rusty and hadnt been done for ages by the look of it when i first got my car,spray the fuel pipe connectors with wd40 or simlar the day before and let it soak in,check your spark plugs and leads are all ok. oh yeah mines boosting by my gauge 12psi or about 2mm from the end of the stock gauge

you didnt get 338 lb ft torque mate you mean 338nms lol

[T5rookie]

yes they did but a few members think I'm talking crap....they say the dyno's correct, get over it......if I did make that figure of 219bhp then there would be a massive boost leak/low compression or serious overfueling, of which I have none!

An S14a made 480bhp at 2.2bar on a 3071r, a few weeks ago, put it on today and on these rollers it made 400bhp.....Another ran 326bhp without a map and some substancial mods, then today after a remap and boost increase made 325bhp.

Could just be a coincidence

[T5frankie]

dont worry about it just go somewhere else mate

[T5rookie]

yeah....its just a pain having driven all that way to be given a such a figure......the other cars with discrepancies went before me which made me even more curious. I just said how would you explain that then and he said...."Seems healthy, good fueling, good boost and smooth curve." Ok then wheres my extra horses haha...

Was suggested the dyno may have not been recalibrated for a while.

[T5frankie]

yeah....its just a pain having driven all that way to be given a such a figure......the other cars with discrepancies went before me which made me even more curious. I just said how would you explain that then and he said...."Seems healthy, good fueling, good boost and smooth curve." Ok then wheres my extra horses haha...

Was suggested the dyno may have not been recalibrated for a while.

when i had my first dyno it boosted to 22psi and seemed healthy but only produced 262bhp it turned out to be a turbo not performing as well as it should, it also could be your cat being half knackered and blocking the gases reducing power

[T5rookie]

More reason to cut it out! Where's my angle grinder!

[T5frankie]

More reason to cut it out! Where's my angle grinder!

do it if it has a new mot but it will make it considerably louder

[T5rookie]

cheers for the help guys...

appreciate it!

What fuel filter should I get? Something genuine volvo or with a eurocarparts item be ok.

Alex

[cherry1809]

Just to point out chaps, This is my old HLM.
I bought it from JelT5 and has definately been re mapped.
I never had problems with power as such with it (See my 60-100 vid) It just didn't like 1.2 bar. But as I said, Could just be a coincidence.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyvTeujCG5Y&context=C403cbeaADvjVQa1PpcFO6r2a2nNyjz5GjfK0DaVhl EPSgYsZVS8A=

[AndysR]

Dyno results generate all sorts of figures, what you should be looking out for is how the power is generated i.e. how smooth and consistant the power graph is and what the afr and boost levels are like across the rev range...

FWIW mine was rolling roaded on a Dyno Dynamics rolling road last January. I can't remember exactly to the number but the figures were 230 hp and 250 ish Ibft of torque. That was with the spec how it is TT, Greens, Hybrid and high boost in 3rd and 4th gears between mid/high revs.
Doesn't sound like a lightning machine does it? But on the road it's smooth and progressive whilst pulling 14.4 1/4's with 101 mph terminals so the way it is produced counts for something at least keeping in mind it's an auto so that's not a bad figure ;)
I think you will always get variations in power readings depending on where you go for the rolling road.

[T5rookie]

Cherry mentioned having to adjust the actuator? I don't want to fit an MBC as the low down torque fear of bending something.

My boost level on the dash now goes about 3mm from the end of the white section, rather than 3-4mm into it.

I need a boost gauge but haven't got the time in the next 2 days unless I give a spare one to the garage to wire up whilst they do my water pump.

[T5rookie]

oh and Darren, no worries.....not saying the map is no good....there is a clear difference there. Just odd my figures seem to have gone backwards.

[AndysR]

Cherry mentioned having to adjust the actuator? I don't want to fit an MBC as the low down torque fear of bending something.

My boost level on the dash now goes about 3mm from the end of the white section, rather than 3-4mm into it.

I need a boost gauge but haven't got the time in the next 2 days unless I give a spare one to the garage to wire up whilst they do my water pump.

The on dash gauge isn't the most accurate but I think that most of the off the shelf maps will boost off the white by about 2-3mm usually ;)

[T5rookie]

oh....so do I need to adjust the actuator? Or fit an MBC? Could it be the stock boost solenoid limiting boost creep?

[AndysR]

I'd stick to a slight tweak on the actuator, if it's got a HLM or Rica 304 then it should be boosting 1.1/1.2 bar of boost so the stock boost control setup should allow it unless it's got a boost leak, faulty BCS or just that the actuator needs tightening slightly. ;)

[T5rookie]

I wouldn't have the first clue where to start adjusting the actuator....IS there a guide I can follow?

[AndysR]

It's fairly straight forward to do but your best off getting yourself a Miti-vac and an accurate boost gauge to start with..
I don't think the HLM map has a boost limiter so your best to get someone else to help you if your unsure otherwise it could end badly... ;)

[T5frankie]

its the rod that comes out of the actuator, to see it you need to take of the heat shield that covers the turbo, it has a 10mm nut on it you need to slacken off then pull the rod off the left hand side by removing clip and pulling up, then it will turn you need to turn it so the end thats spinning moves closer to the actuator therefore making it harder for you to put the rod back over the pin, just turn it a couple of times till its quite hard to put back on, job done, leave the heat shield off mate, you will see why when you do it lol

[T5rookie]

Ok cool.....done that and its made a nice difference.....Power actually feels smoother as well as punchy. Before it felt like it came in all at 3600 onwards.

I put 2 turns on the actuator. Is that safe enough?

[cherry1809]

oh and Darren, no worries.....not saying the map is no good....there is a clear difference there. Just odd my figures seem to have gone backwards.

I kinow you wasn't getting at that :)
If you aren't happy once the boost is wound up a bit, I'll gladly give a full refund though. Although I'm sure you will be ;)
The general rule of thumb is (and I think AndysR said this somewhere) Wind the rod in until you can see a half moon through the hole in the turn buckle. Then pull it up and back on. Good place to start then.

[cherry1809]

Ok cool.....done that and its made a nice difference.....Power actually feels smoother as well as punchy. Before it felt like it came in all at 3600 onwards.

I put 2 turns on the actuator. Is that safe enough?

Oh and don't floor it before 3600rpm, As thats what bends rods.

[T5rookie]

I'm hoping I won't bend a rod on just an hlm map on a stock car.....or have people done that?

[cherry1809]

Yes, It's the boost that does it, Not the map :)

[nottsgreent5]

Yes, It's the boost that does it, Not the map :)

p.md is your inbox full mate lol

[T5rookie]

the map increases the boost as well as fueling so therefore it is the map that causes the issue...

[LiamT4]

the map increases the boost as well as fueling so therefore it is the map that causes the issue...

Yeah, but most standard off the shelf maps are designed so that the boost won't come in too early.

Its the way the mbc brings in lots of boost very early that can cause problems.

[ROZER]

yes your right my s60 t5 has a rica stage 2 and i only get say 11psi in the first 2 gears then in third its upto 18 psi.

[cherry1809]

That HLM didn't affect the boost on mine until I tightened the actuator. Then added the Blitz DSBC :P

[cherry1809]

p.md is your inbox full mate lol

Still haven't got my mobile back from repair yet, After it went down a drain.
Did most of my browsing on that. :(