T4, But which one???

[lozccw]

Ok, since my MOT (where it barely scraped through with a £20 plate bodged over some rust) I have been and enquired about having the body repaired.
It turns out that for the cost of the body repairs added to the fact that I already have a clicking driveshaft and noisy tappets to repair, I could just go out and buy myself a T4... So thats exactly what I'm going to do!

The only problem is I can't decide whether to get another V40, or change for an S40?
Is there any noticable difference in performance/mpg etc? (I'm looking specifically at the phase1)
The load capacity difference isn't an issue as I never normally go over the load cover, And I have roof bars just incase.

[T5frankie]

get a t5 mate

[lozccw]

lol I thought about that, But I have already spent too much money on stuff for my '40 to not get another and switch it all over!

[Kingsford G]

No diff really on fuel and perfo.Only buy 1.9 one as 2.0 t4s not as good.

[lozccw]

No diff really on fuel and perfo.Only buy 1.9 one as 2.0 t4s not as good.

Thats part of the reason for wanting specifically a phase1 with the 1855cc engine.
The other reason is that some of the parts that I have and want to re-use are also for a phase1

[mitchyboy01]

Hi mate. I've had both and it's just personal preference on the looks and space. All the running gear is the same. Get a 1.9 as these are a stronger block if you want to go mad with the tuning.

[LiamT4]

Don't forget about the "phase 1.5", which is what i had. It was a 2000 "x" with all the updated interior, front, suspension, etc, but still had the stronger 1855cc engine :B_thumb:

Ignore all this "get a t5" rubbish, they just don't want people to get t4s because they're cheaper to run AND faster. :lol:

[mitchyboy01]

Ignore all this "get a t5" rubbish, they just don't want people to get t4s because they're cheaper to run AND faster



too true haha

[Dave86]

I have to agree with frankie and say get a t5. I really don't like my v40 t4 compared to the c70 t5 i had before it feels cheaply made like its been thrown together, its slower and feels unstable at speed. i can't wait til I've got the money together for my next car so i can get rid of it.
Although it is better on fuel than the t5.
But each to their own, this is just my opinion.

[960kg]

I agree with Dave 86 above , i have just gone backwards from ` 98 T4 to a `97 V70 T5 and the standard T4 suspension wise at 10yrs old is a dodgy machine that cannot handle the 200bhp it is dangerous. Ok, so you may get a bit more mpg on the standard motor but my 1855 T4 with the actuator turned up only gave me 27mpg on a long run and 20 in the town. I have done 30mpg on a run with the T5 and in much more roomy comfort, both using 98ron.
As for my 2001 Phase 2 1.8 it is really a horrid little motor wish i had never bought it, VVT rattling all over the place, Ok so 34mpg, but i prefer the build quality and the more spacious cabin of my T5 to any S/V40.

[Al115]

If I was going back to the T4/T5 fold, I'd be in the T4 camp all the way.

Soundtrack not as good.
Just as fast in the real world.
Handles better and uses less fuel.

So the T4 gets my vote on that debate (yes I know I have recently bought a T5, but that was a bit "different"! :) )

I'd buy a Phase 2 T4 - yes it has the weaker engine, but it has a much more "modern" feel to it than the older cars. Who cares so long as you can have a reliable 200+ (240...) BHP, it's plenty quick enough for me as a daily drive.

[yorkshire R]

im with the T4.iv had the 850T5,850R,C70Tcoupe,C70 covertible,S60T5 and my T4 twice!
as iv no kids the T4 is the right size for my,the others are really big cars,my favorite volvo is the 850R then my T4

[960kg]

If I was going back to the T4/T5 fold, I'd be in the T4 camp all the way.

Soundtrack not as good.
Just as fast in the real world.
Handles better and uses less fuel.

So the T4 gets my vote on that debate (yes I know I have recently bought a T5, but that was a bit "different"! :) )

I'd buy a Phase 2 T4 - yes it has the weaker engine, but it has a much more "modern" feel to it than the older cars. Who cares so long as you can have a reliable 200+ (240...) BHP, it's plenty quick enough for me as a daily drive.

The thing is you won`t have a reliable Phase 2 T4 if you use the power ,they blow head gaskets and split liners all the time. This is why the 1855 Phase 1 T4 is the better deal, and they are reliable. with no VVT failure every 50,000mls

[T5frankie]

Ignore all this "get a t5" rubbish, they just don't want people to get t4s because they're cheaper to run AND faster



too true haha

ive had one and 10 t5's lol and they aint faster mate

[Al115]

The thing is you won`t have a reliable Phase 2 T4 if you use the power ,they blow head gaskets and split liners all the time. This is why the 1855 Phase 1 T4 is the better deal, and they are reliable. with no VVT failure every 50,000mls

I didn't have a single problem with any of the T4s I owned (other than the ones I caused myself - and the one I owned briefly that had been crashed!) They don't split liners etc unless badly tuned for what the engine can take (which is, indeed, not as much as the older T4s - but then we know that, so tune accordingly).

[mitchyboy01]

ive had one and 10 t5's lol and they aint faster mate

Everyone goes on about the T5 and no-one really knows much about the T4 so they ignore them as being the smaller slower brother. In stock form they are as fast as a 225bhp T5 and quicker on the 1/4. They are nearly 200kg lighter too which helps. If there were a few more people tuning the T4's a T4 vs T5 day would be interesting.

[Haizum74]

I can only comment on the T4 as I have not had a T5, just the 940 Turbo but I have been informed by a few people that they are quicker stock than a stock T5.

[T5frankie]

Everyone goes on about the T5 and no-one really knows much about the T4 so they ignore them as being the smaller slower brother. In stock form they are as fast as a 225bhp T5 and quicker on the 1/4. They are nearly 200kg lighter too which helps. If there were a few more people tuning the T4's a T4 vs T5 day would be interesting.

id be up for some t4 ass kicking lol

[960kg]

Everyone goes on about the T5 and no-one really knows much about the T4 so they ignore them as being the smaller slower brother. In stock form they are as fast as a 225bhp T5 and quicker on the 1/4. They are nearly 200kg lighter too which helps. If there were a few more people tuning the T4's a T4 vs T5 day would be interesting.

I`ll be up for it Mitch, when i am sorted!

If it were a standing start i do believe due to getting the traction down they would be identical even though the T5 is heavier against the loss of traction by the T4 then the T5 should gently go away once the weight is moving. I am taking standard motors, don`t forget the standard V70 is 240bhp against the T4 200bhp

[lozccw]

I already have coilovers,heavy duty arb links, steel braided hoses(Brake and clutch), full stainless exhaust with 200 cell sport cat, weber high flow air filter, whiteline rear roll bar, front and rear strut braces, and a few other bits and pieces from my current car.

I can't really afford to "start again" so I'm pretty much comitted to a T4.

I'm planning to get a forge recirc dv straight away, but where should I go from there regarding tuning the engine?
(Assuming its the p1 1855cc)

[lozccw]

Everyone goes on about the T5 and no-one really knows much about the T4 so they ignore them as being the smaller slower brother. In stock form they are as fast as a 225bhp T5 and quicker on the 1/4. They are nearly 200kg lighter too which helps. If there were a few more people tuning the T4's a T4 vs T5 day would be interesting.

I'll be up for it when I've got mine sorted!

[960kg]

I didn't have a single problem with any of the T4s I owned (other than the ones I caused myself - and the one I owned briefly that had been crashed!) They don't split liners etc unless badly tuned for what the engine can take (which is, indeed, not as much as the older T4s - but then we know that, so tune accordingly).

I have been revolving around the S/V40 site for over 2yrs now as i had my T4 and the amount of trouble with 2000- standard 2litre T3, T5 coded engines is terrible. The liners are so thin due to increased bore size from 1855 to 1948cc that the gasket blow if you use the power a lot it is progress!! from the start of the Volvo / Ford.... new engines at 90,000 wow and a Volvo......i would never ever go near the Ford induced Volvo`s. Rattling VVT......We know from our own V70 T5`s that after 1999/2000 the changes to the cars really did put up the cost of owning one and also reduced there reliability. That is why i bought a pre ME7 model.

Only my opinion.

[LiamT4]

I can't say about the early phase 1 t4s, but my phase 1.5 had better handling than most other standard volvos i'v been in.

My car was remapped, de-cat and bmc induction and had done 128k with no problems, in fact it was running smoother than when i originally bought it.
With those small mods, my automatic t4 could still do 0-100mph in less than 15secs, that was gps speed as well, not just going by the clock.

"14.573@98.11MPH - JUDGENINJA, Volvo V40 T4 - Seats removed" - thats taken from the 1/4mile times and, apart from the seats being removed" his car is standard

How many standard 850s or s/v/c70s t5s can do that?

[lozccw]

I can't say about the early phase 1 t4s, but my phase 1.5 had better handling than most other standard volvos i'v been in.

My car was remapped, de-cat and bmc induction and had done 128k with no problems, in fact it was running smoother than when i originally bought it.
With those small mods, my automatic t4 could still do 0-100mph in less than 15secs, that was gps speed as well, not just going by the clock.

"14.573@98.11MPH - JUDGENINJA, Volvo V40 T4 - Seats removed" - thats taken from the 1/4mile times and, apart from the seats being removed" his car is standard

How many standard 850s or s/v/c70s t5s can do that?


Without wanting to start the whole "who is the best remap company" debate, Where did you get yours done?
And roughly how much should I be looking at spending?
What sort of figures did a Remap give you?

[mitchyboy01]

Without wanting to start the whole "who is the best remap company" debate, Where did you get yours done?
And roughly how much should I be looking at spending?
What sort of figures did a Remap give you?

After the basic 230bhp MTE generic map the options are very limited but have a read of this. I'm going to Unichip mine. £550 supplied, fitted and mapped full piggyback ECU controller.

http://forums.t5d5.org/topic/17496-piggyback-ecus-custom-maps-dynojet-cmd-units-etc-etc-info-needed/page__fromsearch__1

[T5frankie]

there was a bloke at the dyno day had a phase one t4 running an exhaust and mbc he made a whopping 245bhp and 400nms torque, just by turning the boost up

[LiamT4]

Without wanting to start the whole "who is the best remap company" debate, Where did you get yours done?
And roughly how much should I be looking at spending?
What sort of figures did a Remap give you?

Unfortunatly i didn't get it mapped myself, it was done by a previous owner and i wasn't even aware it was mapped untill i had to take it to a main dealer to get an issue sorted out. They had a bit of trouble with the diagnostics and it was only when they looked a little deeper into it that they told me.

My reply was something like "oh, that explains why its so fast for a bloody auto!" lol

Sorry i can't help you, but maybe you should give smithy a pm because i'm sure his mate got his t4 mapped not long back.

[mitchyboy01]

there was a bloke at the dyno day had a phase one t4 running an exhaust and mbc he made a whopping 245bhp and 400nms torque, just by turning the boost up

Yeah, im sure the remaps just raise boost and no other parameters lol my ECU is stock as you know and ran 285bhp @ 20.5psi. Just put VXR injectors on for it to bung in enough fuel, pikey but it works. They will fuel 340bhp.

[mitchyboy01]

lozccw, just seen you are just up the road from me!! Fancy meeting up when my car is sorted?

[LiamT4]

After the basic 230bhp MTE generic map the options are very limited but have a read of this. I'm going to Unichip mine. £550 supplied, fitted and mapped full piggyback ECU controller.

http://forums.t5d5.org/topic/17496-piggyback-ecus-custom-maps-dynojet-cmd-units-etc-etc-info-needed/page__fromsearch__1

Sounds like your keeping it then?

Good, you can come to some 1/4miles and spank some t5s! :mischievo

[mitchyboy01]

I will find the money to get it fixed by the end of the month. I'm not eating, not paying any bills, heating is off, no baths, no beer. If it breaks again after this, the car burns!!

[T5frankie]

Sounds like your keeping it then?

Good, you can come to some 1/4miles and spank some t5s! :mischievo

you know kent/essex boys are all too scared to race (get battered)

[lozccw]

Yeah, im sure the remaps just raise boost and no other parameters lol my ECU is stock as you know and ran 285bhp @ 20.5psi. Just put VXR injectors on for it to bung in enough fuel, pikey but it works. They will fuel 340bhp.

What have you done to yours to get those figures?


lozccw, just seen you are just up the road from me!! Fancy meeting up when my car is sorted?

Sounds good, I always slow down whenever I drive past your car parked up to try and get a better look!
Think I'm gonna need some help when I've got mine to get some tips on tuning it lol!!

[LiamT4]

I will find the money to get it fixed by the end of the month. I'm not eating, not paying any bills, heating is off, no baths, no beer. If it breaks again after this, the car burns!!

lol


you know kent/essex boys are all too scared to race (get battered)

We'll see this year, some of them will have to come along some time, there's only so much standing around in a carpark you can do!!

[T5frankie]

lol



We'll see this year, some of them will have to come along some time, there's only so much standing around in a carpark you can do!!

i know bloody beardstrokers lol

[mitchyboy01]

What have you done to yours to get those figures?



Sounds good, I always slow down whenever I drive past your car parked up to try and get a better look!
Think I'm gonna need some help when I've got mine to get some tips on tuning it lol!!

Hi mate. When have you driven past my car? it's bog standard on the outside. Car has a big spec but have had my fair share of teething problems. Actuator hose blew off last week, boosted to 30+psi and popped the HG (I hope nowt more serious). You don't need my spec to reach 300bhp though, but here it is that I can remember:

I have fully forged internals (bought engine already done, cheap), MBC, return line added to fuel system, adjustable FPR, Holset HE221W turbo, full 3inch JT system, VXR injectors, dumpvalve (hate it but with the boost I run prob a good idea), full custom huge drop in alloy intercooler, converted T5 manifold to adapt to T3 flange. Allows me to fit a wider range of turbos like the 19T, Holsets etc.

Hoping for 320+ when mapped

[LiamT4]

i know bloody beardstrokers lol

Any meet would do for me at the minute, aint been to one for ages.
Can't wait for shakespeare to open to see everyones cars again, even if i have to come in the mrs car, i'll be there!!

[mitchyboy01]

lol



We'll see this year, some of them will have to come along some time, there's only so much standing around in a carpark you can do!!

Racing and dyno days are always 200+ miles away though which hits the pocket and if the car pops on the strip I'm fecked. Will have to make sure I get to a meet this year though.

[T5frankie]

Any meet would do for me at the minute, aint been to one for ages.
Can't wait for shakespeare to open to see everyones cars again, even if i have to come in the mrs car, i'll be there!!

dunno why it opens 3 months later than santa pod

[T5frankie]

Racing and dyno days are always 200+ miles away though which hits the pocket and if the car pops on the strip I'm fecked. Will have to make sure I get to a meet this year though.

my car has broke down 3 out of the last 3 race meets ive done lol

[mitchyboy01]

my car has broke down 3 out of the last 3 race meets ive done lol

With my luck mine will go bang on the way up lol

[lozccw]

Hi mate. When have you driven past my car? it's bog standard on the outside. Car has a big spec but have had my fair share of teething problems. Actuator hose blew off last week, boosted to 30+psi and popped the HG (I hope nowt more serious). You don't need my spec to reach 300bhp though, but here it is that I can remember:

I have fully forged internals (bought engine already done, cheap), MBC, return line added to fuel system, adjustable FPR, Holset HE221W turbo, full 3inch JT system, VXR injectors, dumpvalve (hate it but with the boost I run prob a good idea), full custom huge drop in alloy intercooler, converted T5 manifold to adapt to T3 flange. Allows me to fit a wider range of turbos like the 19T, Holsets etc.

Hoping for 320+ when mapped

JESUS!!

Is the return fuel line only needed for the adjustable fpr?
Do you know if there are any turbo upgrades that can be done with the standard manifold?
Do you have any idea whats a good pressure to run with an mbc on a relatively stock engine? (or would a remap be better)

I have seen your car a few times parked up on the corner near the shop.

[LiamT4]

Racing and dyno days are always 200+ miles away though which hits the pocket and if the car pops on the strip I'm fecked. Will have to make sure I get to a meet this year though.

Be good to see your car and you don't have to run, but seeing other modded volvos may "persuade" you. lol


dunno why it opens 3 months later than santa pod

I'v no idea either?.

Most of the country is in a drought, so its bound to be bloody raining for the first one!

[T5frankie]

Be good to see your car and you don't have to run, but seeing other modded volvos may "persuade" you. lol



I'v no idea either?.

Most of the country is in a drought, so its bound to be bloody raining for the first one!

yeah i bet it does, april showers an all that, ive done santa pod twice and cadwell this year already and weather was spot on

[mitchyboy01]

JESUS!!

Is the return fuel line only needed for the adjustable fpr?
Do you know if there are any turbo upgrades that can be done with the standard manifold?
Do you have any idea whats a good pressure to run with an mbc on a relatively stock engine? (or would a remap be better)

I have seen your car a few times parked up on the corner near the shop.

Oh yeah, didn't realise you'd seen it. It's always minging atm, I must wash it lol

Return line needed for FPR and the T4's returnless system loses pressure above 300bhp in most cases. A guy called Tim Williams will convert a manifold for you for £70. I sourced a 2001 S60 manifold for £25, he did the work and posted back to me. It bolts straight on. Then you can pick up a cheap 16T for £100 and have 270+bhp possible. I have a mate with a workshop who has done most of the work on my car so is very familiar with my car. He is very cheap and enjoys the work so if you get stuck he's your man.

Forgot to say the car has a SMF conversion and 850R clutch too. This list makes me realise how much work and money I've spent on the car.

[lozccw]

ok, I have found what appears to be a nice X reg phase 1.5 that I want to go and look at.
the photos clearly show phase2 bodywork, but the advert also states that the engine capacity is 1855cc.

Does anyone know what engine code was used for the p1.5 1855 engine so that I can be sure?

Thanks.

[mitchyboy01]

ok, I have found what appears to be a nice X reg phase 1.5 that I want to go and look at.
the photos clearly show phase2 bodywork, but the advert also states that the engine capacity is 1855cc.

Does anyone know what engine code was used for the p1.5 1855 engine so that I can be sure?

Thanks.

B4194T2 mate. The most desirable engine to tune. Mine was a Phase 1.5 but had the phase 1 bodywork and B4194T2.

[Haizum74]

Apparently mine is B4204T5 with the M56 gearbox

[lozccw]

Apparently mine is B4204T5 with the M56 gearbox


Isn't the B4204T5 the 1948cc?

[Haizum74]

Isn't the B4204T5 the 1948cc?

Alas, yes it is. Not the best one for tuning.

[scoobysn7x]

I have both an S40 & a V40 T4 both phase 2's and I had no problem with either, apart from the common fuel sender problem & the bonnet cable snapping both were cheap fixes, there's no real noticeable difference between handling and performance of the estate vs the saloon the ones I had were similar mileage and similar age 2001 vs 2002, I prefered the S40 just for look (was a nicer colour), I was looking for an S40 when the V40 T4 it ticked every box so I got it, & have to admit the extra boot space came in handy, but looks wise I'll always prefer the S40...

As for the T5 vs T4 arguement I've been in/driven S60 T5, V70 T5, & I currently have a S40 T5 (which I love) but none have felt as fast as either of the T4's I've had, but I think thats down to the high pressure surge vs the low pressure surge, you feel the speed a lot more in a T4, but the T5 is a lot smoother to drive, ideally I would have a new shape S40 T4 but that doesn't exist ;-) & I'm loving the S40 T5 I have now, but I still miss the bigger surge from the T4

[JUDGENINJA]

Phase2 V40 for me... You'll all the issues of a 10yr old car no matter which one you buy.
I like my 1997 V70 and 850, but the T4 is quicker out of the box straight line and on the track.

[lozccw]

I Went and had a look at the car, turns out it is the B4204T5 engine.

I know they can't handle as much as the p1 engines, But can anyone quantify what sort of figures are safely acchievable with the p2 engines? (I'm thinking around 240bhp ish)

Thanks

[LiamT4]

I Went and had a look at the car, turns out it is the B4204T5 engine.

I know they can't handle as much as the p1 engines, But can anyone quantify what sort of figures are safely acchievable with the p2 engines? (I'm thinking around 240bhp ish)

Thanks

If its been looked after then the 1948cc engine should be fine with a remap, exhaust, induction. Its when they are taken further that causes problems.

Make sure things like injectors, fuel pump, plugs, hoses are all in good condition. Oil and filter change twice a year and always run it on super unleaded, which is very important on these engines, especially when mapped.

When its done take it somewhere with a dyno to get the afr's checked, to make sure.

[lozccw]

B4204T2? its a p1.5 1855cc (even though the engine code sounds more like a 1948cc).
But is it any good, or is it just like every other 1855 just with a wierd code?

[Haizum74]

B4204T2? its a p1.5 1855cc (even though the engine code sounds more like a 1948cc).
But is it any good, or is it just like every other 1855 just with a wierd code?

Thats the 2.0 engine. The B4204T2 T3 and T5 are the 1948cc and the B4194T /B4194T2 is the 1855cc.

[lozccw]

Thats the 2.0 engine. The B4204T2 T3 and T5 are the 1948cc and the B4194T /B4194T2 is the 1855cc.

I thought that, but I checked with the DVLA, Insurance company, and HPI, and they all told me it was the 1855cc?

[mitchyboy01]

JESUS!!

Is the return fuel line only needed for the adjustable fpr?
Do you know if there are any turbo upgrades that can be done with the standard manifold?
Do you have any idea whats a good pressure to run with an mbc on a relatively stock engine? (or would a remap be better)

I have seen your car a few times parked up on the corner near the shop.

Will be for sale in about 2 weeks after the HG has been done.

[lozccw]

Will be for sale in about 2 weeks after the HG has been done.

why are you selling?

[mitchyboy01]

why are you selling?

Money. I want a small hatch for economy and track days. Can't do it too the Volvo after all the money and effort I've put into it.

[Haizum74]

I thought that, but I checked with the DVLA, Insurance company, and HPI, and they all told me it was the 1855cc?

Hmm interesting. Not sure then now lol