jardon
Monday 9th January 2012, 21:18
I disconnected one of the drop links to see what happened - I have front and rear IPD bars running with BC coilovers,1.5 degrees front negative camber, 1.0 degree of rear neg camber and some toe in front and rear.
The result so far is much better traction and far less wheelspin in all conditions - this was my aim. I feared it would roll all over the place and be scarily tail happy but up to now it seems relatively tame. It is noticeably more settled on rough surfaces and doesn't want to ££££ a wheel anymore on speed bumps taken at an angle.
With the bar attached I get a lot of traction loss at any front/rear damper settings from full hard to full soft. For sensible dive and roll control I was running the front dampers at 15 clicks (of 30) from full hard with the bar - less than 10 from full hard gets too jittery on my local roads to be enjoyable. At the same 15 from hard setting with the bar disconnected there was noticeably more front roll so I notched it up 4 clicks. Now very little roll (still more than with bar attached) but much more settled.
The traction difference has made me smile where previously I was cursing not getting power down in anything below 4th. My brain tells me this is probably illegal, may catch me out in the wet with snap oversteer and just sounds plain wrong. My experience of it is that the ride is comfier even at harder damper settings, the car pulls out of corners and in a straight line much better, is more composed overall and even with some fairly aggressive provocation the back end stays put. It "feels right".
On Tims advice I have bought a used 2001 23mm front bar off a 2.0t S60 to swap for the IPD one but even so I don't want to fit it. The IPD bar (25mm) is 40% stiffer than the stock one so I will get better traction if I swap but I think that with the stiffness of coilovers up front it is really driveable without. The IPD front bar with my set up is far from how I want it - I can't believe I drove the car with just the front one for ages, it must have been awful.
Tim has firmly suggested I should fit the stock bar so in time that's what I'll do but I'd be interested in anybodys comments as we all rush out and buy these things without thinking sometimes (I did). Lets face it my HIDs/Carbotechs are not strictly legal but that doesn't make them dangerous - that's how I'm viewing the disconnected roll bar in the context of good roll control with coilovers..
Interesting link on the effect of roll bar thickness on stiffness (stiffness is proportional to thickness to the power 4).
http://www.balancemotorsport.co.uk/sitepage/Whiteline.html
eg: 23mm 23*23*23*23=279841
25mm 25*25*25*25=390625
so 390625/279841~1.4 ie: 40% stiffer.
I have notified my insurance company and they are happy with a deleted front bar. MOT should be fine with total removal but will fail if just a disconnected drop link.
As stock it was Front - 23mm, Rear - 21mm.
IPD was Front 25mm, Rear - 22mm but I didn't like it.
I currently run Front - NIL, Rear - 22mm.
I don't fancy running the front 23mm bar with the IPD 22mm bar but I have found this:
http://www.ultraracing.my/Bars.asp?ID=3811
It's a 25mm rear bar and I am very tempted as it may complement the stock front bar nicely. Where would be cheapest?
The result so far is much better traction and far less wheelspin in all conditions - this was my aim. I feared it would roll all over the place and be scarily tail happy but up to now it seems relatively tame. It is noticeably more settled on rough surfaces and doesn't want to ££££ a wheel anymore on speed bumps taken at an angle.
With the bar attached I get a lot of traction loss at any front/rear damper settings from full hard to full soft. For sensible dive and roll control I was running the front dampers at 15 clicks (of 30) from full hard with the bar - less than 10 from full hard gets too jittery on my local roads to be enjoyable. At the same 15 from hard setting with the bar disconnected there was noticeably more front roll so I notched it up 4 clicks. Now very little roll (still more than with bar attached) but much more settled.
The traction difference has made me smile where previously I was cursing not getting power down in anything below 4th. My brain tells me this is probably illegal, may catch me out in the wet with snap oversteer and just sounds plain wrong. My experience of it is that the ride is comfier even at harder damper settings, the car pulls out of corners and in a straight line much better, is more composed overall and even with some fairly aggressive provocation the back end stays put. It "feels right".
On Tims advice I have bought a used 2001 23mm front bar off a 2.0t S60 to swap for the IPD one but even so I don't want to fit it. The IPD bar (25mm) is 40% stiffer than the stock one so I will get better traction if I swap but I think that with the stiffness of coilovers up front it is really driveable without. The IPD front bar with my set up is far from how I want it - I can't believe I drove the car with just the front one for ages, it must have been awful.
Tim has firmly suggested I should fit the stock bar so in time that's what I'll do but I'd be interested in anybodys comments as we all rush out and buy these things without thinking sometimes (I did). Lets face it my HIDs/Carbotechs are not strictly legal but that doesn't make them dangerous - that's how I'm viewing the disconnected roll bar in the context of good roll control with coilovers..
Interesting link on the effect of roll bar thickness on stiffness (stiffness is proportional to thickness to the power 4).
http://www.balancemotorsport.co.uk/sitepage/Whiteline.html
eg: 23mm 23*23*23*23=279841
25mm 25*25*25*25=390625
so 390625/279841~1.4 ie: 40% stiffer.
I have notified my insurance company and they are happy with a deleted front bar. MOT should be fine with total removal but will fail if just a disconnected drop link.
As stock it was Front - 23mm, Rear - 21mm.
IPD was Front 25mm, Rear - 22mm but I didn't like it.
I currently run Front - NIL, Rear - 22mm.
I don't fancy running the front 23mm bar with the IPD 22mm bar but I have found this:
http://www.ultraracing.my/Bars.asp?ID=3811
It's a 25mm rear bar and I am very tempted as it may complement the stock front bar nicely. Where would be cheapest?