Got a rear IPD anti-roll bar - does fitting a front one too make much difference?

[JezF]

Rest of the suspension/handling setup is adjustable coilovers, poly wishbones and a front strut brace.

Has anyone else fitted rear and then fitted front? If so, would be interested in your opinion.

[JT]

I fitted both to mine and now I am going back to standard on the front.
I have found if the car is too stiff on the front,you loose traction through the corners.

this is not 100% yet as I haven't been able to test the car with my new softer springs on the front. The ones I had were over 900 rated (new ones are 700) and made the car bounce because the dampers were not strong enough to cope. I disconnected the ARB on the front and the bouncing all but stopped.

So a work in progress, but it depends on what you are doing with the car I guess?

JT

[JezF]

Hi Johnny. Thanks for that. It's only ever going on the road tbh, but I'm surrounded by cracking country roads so it's nice to have a car that handles half well. The rear IPD certainly massively improved turn-in and reduced roll somewhat too.

I'm running 5kg front, 4kg rear, can't recall what the pound equivalent is but
sounds like your springs are a lot stiffer.

ps. I'm jezmondtutu on Seloc.

[JezF]

I should add that I don't want to introduce any additional harshness which I guess a stiffer front ARB may well do? The ride is pretty decent now and actually better on motorways caused partly I suspect by an improved top mount used with the coilovers.

[Alan M]

Jez I run a 27mm ARB item on the rear of mine with just a 22mm V70r front ARB. I found that setup very very good with Koni yellows and I like you had my car for mainly road use. The rear made a massive improvement to whole feel of the car.

[JT]

Hi Jez,

ok, on the road, then listen to Alan.
I would like to think you dont chuck it about like I might do on a race track!?
so set up will be different. for a start my is alot lighter and therefore behaves totally differently.

JT

[JezF]

Thanks guys.

Johnny, you are absolutely right - my requirement is just to have something that feels agile in corners, like I said I'm surrounded by driving roads in Mid-Sussex but can't always take the Lotus.

Alan, is a front V70R ARB thicker than the standard 850R one?

[Alan M]

V70r item was 22mm and the 850 item I had was 21mm so the swap was done and fresh polybushes were used. I think JT has my old one now.

[JT]

i do indeed! :)

[Flatout Phil]

I have front and rear IPD ARB running standard 850 R springs, front brace, and Bilstein B6 on Vredestein Ultrac Sessanta 215/40/17 and used exclusively on road. The ride is firm but quite OK for a family cruiser and everyday car. Makes for a very flat handling and predicatable ride, superb really. I would NOT fit harder/shorter springs, and I know that a couple of people who have tried mine have commented that it is softer riding but tight handling than Eibach with IPDs. I have ridden in standard V70R and these seem to be rather sharp riding by comparison.
With stiffeners like ARB and braces, they do obviate some of the need to stiffen/lower the springs unless you are a serious trackster.
I also have Nivomats on the rear.
Obviously it is a matter of taste, but I like my set-up and in eighteen months not regretted it.
For what it is worth, Russ at RT is of the opinion that it is pointless just fitting the rear...and he is one of several to have made this observation.
Fitting is a slight pain, get a garage to do it because it will need re-aligning.
I DON'T use IPD droplinks because they are poor quality, and I think make the ride just TOO stiff - just use standard Volvo ones. I have experimented with wishbone polybushes, but find them fragile and again, make the ride a bit too full-on. Just use new Volvo wishbones.

[JezF]

Interesting to have differing opinions, although the switch from standard springs/dampers to coilovers was quite considerable and way better than the traditional pairing of Eibachs with FSD's. I'm still tempted to fit the front IPD, though did the rear only when I had a more standard setup and it was recommended by Don along with front Eibachs.

[t5_monkey]

Hi Jez.

Front ARB is for stuff like trackdays, on the road you're probably better off keeping the stock one.

I just had mine fully polybushed which made a massive difference to the handling (and I mean really massive)

If you want handing.... fully polybush it!

Braided brake lines and strut brace are worthwhile too.

If you're polybushed... keep it on 17's or smaller, otherwise the ride will be brutal.

Lightweight wheels also make a big difference, go for 17's or 16's in a good brand like OZ.

[JezF]

Thanks.

By the way, the poly wishbone bushes I fitted made absolutely no difference to NVH on my car and this was the advice I was given by Tim Williams. I suspect that cheaper poly bushes might cause a problem in this area, they did make a difference to the handling, maybe partly as the old ones had down a few miles.

[AndysR]

I have both front and rear roll bars fitted to mine along with the uprated drop links from IPD. At the time of having these fitted I had the standard R suspension fitted with poly bushes on the front wishbones. The improvement to handling was exceptional in short I found the these to be equal to that of a suspension drop with uprated shocks on my previous vehicle indeed a night and day improvement. It was also noticeable that there was no real comfort affects as a result of fitting the bars and drop links. I have since replaced the standard original suspension with Koni adjustables and I believe this made a similar noticeable improvement to the handling and together the bars and suspension compliment each other well despite the limiting factors of adjustment when compared with the coil overs.

As you have coil overs fitted you should be able to adjust ride height and damper settings as a minimum. Personally I wouldn't think twice about fitting the front bar then setting the suspension up to work in harmony for your given scenarios for a greater good over your existing setup.

[JezF]

I have both front and rear roll bars fitted to mine along with the uprated drop links from IPD. At the time of having these fitted I had the standard R suspension fitted with poly bushes on the front wishbones. The improvement to handling was exceptional in short I found the these to be equal to that of a suspension drop with uprated shocks on my previous vehicle indeed a night and day improvement. It was also noticeable that there was no real comfort affects as a result of fitting the bars and drop links. I have since replaced the standard original suspension with Koni adjustables and I believe this made a similar noticeable improvement to the handling and together the bars and suspension compliment each other well despite the limiting factors of adjustment when compared with the coil overs.

As you have coil overs fitted you should be able to adjust ride height and damper settings as a minimum. Personally I wouldn't think twice about fitting the front bar then setting the suspension up to work in harmony for your given scenarios for a greater good over your existing setup.

Thanks for that. Yes, the dampers are one way adjustables, but alow you to set the ride height and have top mount camber adjustment too so a nice design (BC). http://www.bc-racing.co.uk/coilovers-series-br/?popUpClose=1

I'm definately considering the front IPD, really useful to have the feedback guys, would still be interested to hear from anyone who has fitted rear and then front!

It has to be said that the suspension set-up on a standard 850R is woeful if you are used to any decent handling or modern car - my recent experiences have been M3 Evo saloon, 2x Focus ASBO's, a ST220 and 4 different Elises up to 315bhp. The suspension mods I've done to date have absolutely transformed the car in terms of general handling sophisication without any downside in terms of additional harshness - this has not always been the case with other cars I've tweaked.

I'm running 215/45/17's Hankook V12 Evo's by the way - that definately helped both ride and handling compared to standard size Falkerns.

[t5_monkey]

If you stiffen up the front you'll probably need an LSD too for traction out of slower corners.

[JezF]

Ah, but I have a boring auto (smashed up leg, sold M3 etc), so never really feel I need a LSD. Although I have a manual box with bits in my garage!

[t5_monkey]

Ah, but I have a boring auto (smashed up leg, sold M3 etc), so never really feel I need a LSD. Although I have a manual box with bits in my garage!

That's cool - lets face it you have an Elise if you want something that handles and drives like a housefly!

[The Flying Moose]

Having had all three combinations fitted to 850's I think Im qualified too to give an opinion that I believe the masses are agreeing with.

The rear ARB makes one hell of a difference, worth every penny in my opinion. The front however is a little over kill and one hell of a job to fit. I found with a Koni FSD, H&R springs, IPD drop links and IPD rollback combination that on the road the car felt a little different in the way it handled if not a little too rigid, however....... if you are really hammering it then they do work and work well. For me however this was that infrequent it wasnt really justified.

As its such a pain to change the front the best advice I can give is Yes change to an IPD front rollbar but only when the existing set-up is due replacement.

[JezF]

Ok - thanks for that, I think I will leave it alone for the timebeing then!

[woz]

I DON'T use IPD droplinks because they are poor quality, and I think make the ride just TOO stiff - just use standard Volvo ones. I have experimented with wishbone polybushes, but find them fragile and again, make the ride a bit too full-on. Just use new Volvo wishbones.
Just a quick update on this - changing your droplinks will not change your handling at all. At all. At all.

Also the lower arm bushes are a matter of taste, I went from polybishes to new volvo arms and it was horrible - it felt very rubbery and vague so am just switching back (today in fact).

You have to think about why you are changing an ARB - its not cos youre bored or just doing it for fun. What is the goal? If you dont have one, save your money.
It will change the balance of the car and must be viewed along with the rest of the suspension system. A stiffer rear ARB in relation to the front will reduce the tendency to understeer but if you go too far can make sudden oversteer a possibility.

Since ploughing understeer (power on) is a fact of life with these cars, I view a stiffer rear ARB as on my shopping list, as i prefer to see the ARMCO on the slip roads just a bit further away. I would never upgrade my front ARB until I really found a need to as I get WAAY too much understeer as it is.

One of the tricks I used to use in the old Maestro when trialling was to disconnect the front ARB comletely - gave dramatically improved traction and made it almost unstoppable on muddy hills. With the bar connected, it was almost impossible to get off the start line. Nuff said. Try disconnecting your drop links (or one of them) and tie the arm up out of teh way and you will see what I mean about traction.

But remember - its all about balance - if you stiffen the one it changes the balance, stiffen the other and you can balance it out again, and remember why you are doing it so you have some way to say if its a success or not.

Just a thought.
Woz

[woz]

Thanks.

By the way, the poly wishbone bushes I fitted made absolutely no difference to NVH on my car .

Agreed!