PDA

View Full Version : S40 T4 SE Auto phase 2 engine fault/s advice....



T4 NEIL
Friday 15th July 2011, 07:29
It's like this...

Saw the car weeks ago on Autotrader. Went to see it after getting finances sorted. Took for test drive & all was well....

Salesman told my wife that they had taken it in as a p/x & it has stood in the lot since the tax ran out in March....

On the way home with it, planted my foot which resulted in a metallic rattle accompanied by thick blue/grey smoke that James Bond would of been proud of!
Backed off throttle, smoke eventually cleared

To be continued....

JelT5
Friday 15th July 2011, 08:25
That sounds like either the turbo or possibly even piston rings to me mate :(

mitchyboy01
Friday 15th July 2011, 08:32
If it's from a trader go and see him mate. You have a lot more comeback buying from a trader. The sooner you do this the better. I bought my car privately and got stung, I'm finding it nearly impossible to get anything done about it.

Might be worth doing a compression leak down test first though so you have a rough idea whether it's the rings or not. When my turbo was gone it would smoke after idling for 2 mins or so and on overun.

Mitch.

T4 NEIL
Friday 15th July 2011, 09:25
If it's from a trader go and see him mate. You have a lot more comeback buying from a trader. The sooner you do this the better. I bought my car privately and got stung, I'm finding it nearly impossible to get anything done about it.

Might be worth doing a compression leak down test first though so you have a rough idea whether it's the rings or not. When my turbo was gone it would smoke after idling for 2 mins or so and on overun.

Mitch.

Yeah it's booked in for compression leak test in mornin

Al115
Friday 15th July 2011, 09:27
Exactly as the previous poster said - take it back and get the guy to sort it out. Most likely turbo or maybe oil leak onto somewhere hot (possibly accompanied by heatshield rattle, which makes a nasty noise but isn't serious). Or rings. You can buy a compression tester for twenty quid that will confirm the latter.

He has to sell vehicles as "fit for purpose" - don't get fobbed off with the "sold as seen" line. Your ultimate recourse is to go to Trading Standards and say to them "I bought a car and it didn't even work until I got home" which they will take a dim view of.

Good luck and let us know if we can help.

T4 NEIL
Friday 15th July 2011, 17:17
Sorry guys, bloody work got in the way of important stuff :o
Right, where was I...

Got it home & checked under bonnet. Low oil... so topped up with 10/40 semi.

Went out & tried it again. Takin it easy there was no problem until while sitting in traffic I noticed what I thought was steam coming from the front
Pulled over & checked it again, dip stick had blown out spraying oil everywhere! Turns out the O ring on the stick is suspect apparently??? Temp fix with black tape & tried yet again.

It seems that if I plant the throttle, it rattles like a biscuit tin of marbles rolling downstairs along with clouds of smoke so bad that everything behind disappears but if I potter about & accelerate progressively, I only get the odd puff now & again, with an almost silent engine... (BUT WHERE'S THE FUN IN THAT!!!!)

Also have noticed the cooling fan running more often than not, dunno if this is connected or normal???

Anyway, compression leak test booked for morning so will see what results we get... :confused:

Al115
Friday 15th July 2011, 17:32
I have a spare engine if you need one :D

But seriously... it sounds horrific. Let us know the results from the compression test! Best of luck with it!

T4 NEIL
Friday 15th July 2011, 19:42
Just been up the road to Frankie & Bennies for tea. Mrs drove it, no rattles or smoke. I drove it home, giving a bit more stick... No rattles or smoke?????? WTF is my car playing at:confused:
Still taking it in tomorrow just in case.

Out of interest, does anyone know if maybe the vvt pulleys can seize if left standing ? Bit random, but just clutching at straws!

Al115
Friday 15th July 2011, 20:24
I'm sure anything can sieze if left standing long enough :) but the belt tensioners are much more common from what I remember with mine. Never heard of a seized VVT.

Turbo is much more likely - does it only happen when the car is on boost?

T4 NEIL
Friday 15th July 2011, 21:01
Not all the time! Only seemed to do it if it was floored, but not if driven sympathetically. But this last time out, it didn't do it at all! Confused.com

LiamT4
Friday 15th July 2011, 21:26
Even if it did have a dodgy o-ring on the dipstick, it should just be leaking out of it, no blowing the dipstick out and spraying it everywhere. Which would suggest there was too much pressure in the system.

Whats the condition of the oil and water and can you hear the turbo coming in when you go past 2000rpm?

T4 NEIL
Saturday 16th July 2011, 06:17
Seem to feel it more than hear it, but will try to listen when I go out later. Don't you just love intermittent faults...

T4 NEIL
Saturday 16th July 2011, 10:54
Right

Compression test done....

No 1 = 8, No 2 = 7.5, No 3 = 11, No 4 = 12.

Autodata 1:9

Now what? All suggestions welcome! :confused:

T4 NEIL
Saturday 16th July 2011, 21:10
New findings - exhaust fumes coming out of oil filler when cap removed with engine running!
Oil smoke at it's worst after standing a while after a run then starting!
Stored fault codes - Crank position sensor fault, Misfire cylinder No 2

Seems everything is pointing towards valvetrain/cams?

How involved is removing the head? Is there any special tools required etc? Can't afford main dealer labour prices so need to do as much as pos
s myself. Can't get hold of the trader I bought it off & to be honest the car I traded wasn't much better so don't want it back.!!!

Not sure what to do nexr???

AndysR
Saturday 16th July 2011, 22:13
Compression readings aren't good tbh. If we say that cylinder 4 is perfect compression I would expect the rest, on a good engine, to be closer to cylinder 4 than 1 and 2 are. On a compression test getting text book figures can be very difficult as temperature of the engine and how fast the engine is turning when cranking will affect the compression results. What you are looking for is consistancy between cylinders. If your certain the test was done properly then it looks like you are down on compression on cylinders 1 and 2. This could be as a result of piston ring failure, valve/head problems or cylinder head gasket failure. All of those faults would explain your smoking symptoms. I'd say the noise your hearing could be pinking as a result of either water or excess oil entering the bore during combustion. Engine strip/cylinder head removal would be the next thing on the agenda from here.

LiamT4
Saturday 16th July 2011, 22:19
Valves or headgasket seem most likely for me.

T4 NEIL
Sunday 17th July 2011, 07:52
Doesn't seem to use any water as far as I can see, but from what you guys have said, it's a head job !
Is this something I can do at home or have I gotta spend the summer doing overtime? Used to love stripping down my old mini & ford x-flow & pinto engines, but this looks a little more involved..:confused:

LiamT4
Sunday 17th July 2011, 14:23
You need to make sure you know what the problem is before you start doing any serious work.
We may say it sounds like this or that could be the problem, but we've not seen or driven the car and there can be a few problems that can cause the same symptoms.

Do you know a friendly garage who could give you their opinion?

T4 NEIL
Sunday 17th July 2011, 17:23
Have done, they're guessing at sticking valve/s... But not had much to do with them apart from services as normally very reliable...

T4 NEIL
Monday 18th July 2011, 18:37
Went to 2 more local garages today, 1 said possibly sticking valves/ stem seals/head gasket the other said looks like piston rings/ head gasket. Both said lookin at 1000 ! But neither would want to do it anyway..

Still can't get hold of trader either, think I've been well & truely f***ed over!!!:cry: :help:

Al115
Monday 18th July 2011, 19:04
Second hand block from a breaker will limit your cost to ~350 plus fitting (which you could do yourself maybe).

Jamest5r
Monday 18th July 2011, 20:14
Try Salvo mate they are a massive volvo breaker's i got a t5 engine from them for 250 so maybe a t4 in a similar price range? 0115 9445644.

Also i know of a garage in Aston that would do the swop for you at a decent price it's next door to my Mrs business so could come with you if you want to enquire about cost :)

Al115
Monday 18th July 2011, 21:38
I actually bought a second-hand T4 lump from Salvo before and can only report good experiences about the deal. Had loads of other bits off them too and they're always carefully packed and working, which ticks the box for me! Plus they give a little "forum discount" sometimes if you ask nicely, at least they used to.

Know what engine code you have before you call them, if you're going to.

Dangerous Dave
Tuesday 19th July 2011, 01:14
Went to 2 more local garages today, 1 said possibly sticking valves/ stem seals/head gasket the other said looks like piston rings/ head gasket. Both said lookin at 1000 ! But neither would want to do it anyway..

Still can't get hold of trader either, think I've been well & truely f***ed over!!!:cry: :help:
TBH mate, if you've stripped down engines before then theres not much that you can't do. OK there may be more bits attached to the engine, but they're all basically the same. If you've got a good guide and the tools then you can do anything. Thats if you want to get stuck in, that is.

T4 NEIL
Tuesday 19th July 2011, 06:51
Thanks for the support guys, gonna make a few calls this morning after droppin the Mrs at work. Been checkin fleabay for a manual as Halfrauds want 20! (Unless anyone knows of one lying around or an online pdf or something I can download?

T4 NEIL
Tuesday 19th July 2011, 09:54
Decoded my VIN and found my engine code B4204T5 but you all probably knew that anyway. Will have to nurse it thru the next few weeks to get some overtime in!:(

T4 NEIL
Tuesday 19th July 2011, 10:18
Salvo quoted 395 for the T3 variant which I belive is 165bhp so if I've gotta spend that sort of cash & still have to strip & swap bits, would it not be cheaper to rebuild what I've already got?

What sort of price for a full gasket/seals set & worse case a full set of piston rings?:hidesbehi

T4 NEIL
Tuesday 19th July 2011, 19:10
Update:

My wife managed to get hold of the trader & explained the situation, crafty mare rang him from her work phone, so it didn't do go to his answermachine! We'll see what happens next after mentioning Sale of Goods Act & small claims court....

Jamest5r
Tuesday 19th July 2011, 19:12
Update:

My wife managed to get hold of the trader & explained the situation, crafty mare rang him from her work phone, so it didn't do go to his answermachine! We'll see what happens next after mentioning Sale of Goods Act & small claims court....


Nice one mate, i know what you mean about those Harborne girls i married one :)

T4 NEIL
Saturday 23rd July 2011, 07:44
Still waiting.... :frown:

T4 NEIL
Tuesday 26th July 2011, 07:33
Ok, for the second time last night I had the engine management & traction control lights on together!

Any ideas apart from the e/m & t/c systems throwin a wobbly at exactly the same time?

Al115
Tuesday 26th July 2011, 09:39
"Read the codes, Luke"... :) Really, you're guessing otherwise. There is a "Forum code reader" that you can borrow to do it for just the cost of the postage.

If you are keen on doing the labour yourself then it's probably cheaper to buy the bits and put the hours in, rather than buying a lump from Salvo. That's if you don't cost your time out, and you enjoy the work (like I often do!)

Al115
Tuesday 26th July 2011, 09:41
(And AFAIK all T4s were nominally 200bhp, none of them were 165.)

T4 NEIL
Tuesday 26th July 2011, 14:30
(And AFAIK all T4s were nominally 200bhp, none of them were 165.)

I did read somewhere that the B4204T3 lump fitted as "2.0 Turbo" not "2.0 T4" has different cams/piston/turbo set up for the 165bhp. But nevertheless, if the dealer wont fix it maybe I could get half the repair cost off him & fix it myself for less than 400 ???

Al115
Tuesday 26th July 2011, 15:22
Why not just get the right engine from Salvo? What is in your car already? The engine code is printed on a sticker on the timing belt cover (or we can guess it, but if it's written there... safest bet!)

Alternatively if you can get some of the repair money from the dealer and go to town on the engine yourself, it will be cheaper (again, assuming you don't cost your time out).

Either route is viable I think!

T4 NEIL
Tuesday 26th July 2011, 21:13
(And AFAIK all T4s were nominally 200bhp, none of them were 165.)

I did read somewhere that the B4204T3 lump fitted as "2.0 Turbo" not "2.0 T4" has different cams/piston/turbo set up for the 165bhp. But nevertheless, if the dealer wont fix it maybe I could get half the repair cost off him & fix it myself for less than 400 ???

Al115
Tuesday 26th July 2011, 22:32
Yes the B4204T3 is the light-pressure turbo engine (2.0T) so has some differences to the B4204T5 (T4) lump. Not sure what they are exactly but I wouldn't waste time buying the wrong engine and then making it right. You should be able to get a replacement engine for 400 or thereabouts and that would also give you the time to take yours apart and rebuild it in a relaxed timeframe? Or if you can afford to have the car off the road then just go with the rebuild on your current engine, as you said.

Any news from the trader in question?...

T4 NEIL
Thursday 28th July 2011, 08:03
The main man with the purse is back off holiday on sunday & I've been told to expect a phone call on monday, so we'll see... also, I only mentioned the B4204T3 as this was the only engine Salvo had at the time.

I would love to rebuild the engine myself, just depends whats involved, special tools etc & the fact I dont have a garage or anything so would have to carry the motor thru the house to the back garden or it would be on Steptoe's truck in minutes...

T4 NEIL
Saturday 30th July 2011, 10:27
Only code stored was Crank Position Sensor! Any ideas???

GazT4R
Saturday 30th July 2011, 17:27
The T4 will throw a crank position sensor code if the compression is too low.

I really wouldn't bother with the T3 variant as it's also a higher compression engine so no good for fettling.
Have a look on ebay for a short block, they're usually not massively expensive and I've seen a couple everytime I've looked. As Al has said you should be able to get an engine for 3-400 notes.

T4 NEIL
Monday 1st August 2011, 22:01
1st stage of the small claims court form filled in ready... So mr R&A Cars of Wolves, you have 24 hours to call me, tick tock tick tock ....

T4 NEIL
Wednesday 3rd August 2011, 09:26
Trader is now looking for a cheap engine....

T4 NEIL
Monday 8th August 2011, 07:25
And the wait goes on... :(

scoobysn7x
Monday 8th August 2011, 21:20
I don't understand why the 'dealer' won't give you a refund under the trade descriptions act as the car was obvioulsy not 'fit for use'?

T4 NEIL
Thursday 11th August 2011, 07:10
Car was getting worse, problems starting &the engine starting to knock when cold.... SO TRADED IT WITH ANOTHER DEALER for a nice SAAB turbo 185bhp :-)

M-R-P
Thursday 11th August 2011, 09:26
Car was getting worse, problems starting &the engine starting to knock when cold.... SO TRADED IT WITH ANOTHER DEALER for a nice SAAB turbo 185bhp :-)

AAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :buttkick:

Al115
Thursday 11th August 2011, 09:48
Maybe post the reg up here so that other Forum members don't buy it?...

The Mods were talking about starting a "VOLVOS THAT ARE KNOWN DOGS" thread, a while ago...

M-R-P
Thursday 11th August 2011, 09:57
Maybe post the reg up here so that other Forum members don't buy it?...

The Mods were talking about starting a "VOLVOS THAT ARE KNOWN DOGS" thread, a while ago...

Good idea, that...
Got my vote
:)

LiamT4
Thursday 11th August 2011, 12:33
Think it was this one

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201132409433830/sort/priceasc/usedcars/transmission/automatic/price-to/3000/make/volvo/postcode/le40nh/page/1/keywords/t4/radius/100?logcode=p

Looks familiar to me (i look at them enough! lol) same reg, colour, wheels and mileage and is very, very cheap for a phase 2 auto with that sort of milage.

T4 NEIL
Friday 12th August 2011, 08:05
That's old smokey Y217WDM

Don't get me wrong, it is beautiful to drive, pulls like a train & interior is mint, new tyres etc. But it burnt 5 litres of oil in 500 miles - perhaps it was 2 stroke?

Would make a lovely car for someone with the time & money to sort the engine, I do miss it, kinda got under my skin...


I reckon he would take around 600 cash + 400 to recon/replace the engine... still a cheap car for someone!

Strip & sell interior, tuned engine, instant drag strip car - autobox changes quicker than a manual ;-)

LiamT4
Friday 12th August 2011, 15:15
That's old smokey Y217WDM

Don't get me wrong, it is beautiful to drive, pulls like a train & interior is mint, new tyres etc. But it burnt 5 litres of oil in 500 miles - perhaps it was 2 stroke?

Would make a lovely car for someone with the time & money to sort the engine, I do miss it, kinda got under my skin...


I reckon he would take around 600 cash + 400 to recon/replace the engine... still a cheap car for someone!

Strip & sell interior, tuned engine, instant drag strip car - autobox changes quicker than a manual ;-)

If only i had someone local that could fit me al115s old t4 engine.
(and the money i'd need to get in properly mapped! lol).