Engine build project - C70 build subthread

[Wobbly Dave]

Instead of doing my work - my mind is wandering about doing an ME7 rebuild project.

Again like the transmission project - which was a little fraught with issues, just wondering if I should source an engine & which one.

If I go for a 2.4L S60 MY2005+ engine will I have issues? or should I just go with like for like? And if so like for like - how much on the donor engine? How would I check the history?

To my mind I need obviously a block, head new pistons & rings, forged H-conrods. I have in mind a different turbo than the 19T though this is something that can be figured out later.

I can regrind the valve seats myself.

Without access to expensive equipment - CNC lathe etc - what else can I do in a shed/ garage.

I have had issues with so-called dedicated experts on the transmission upgrade. This is a project I would look to do over the next winter.

Can I port the head & manifolds myself - or is this more of an machine shop job?? I'd expect to change the head gasket right - but should I look to get the mating surfaces redone?

In terms of build sequence - what do you think is best (looking to the likes of Spesh & James or smithy) who have already done a number of block drops before.

[smithy]

Instead of doing my work - my mind is wandering about doing an ME7 rebuild project.

Again like the transmission project - which was a little fraught with issues, just wondering if I should source an engine & which one.

If I go for a 2.4L S60 MY2005+ engine will I have issues? or should I just go with like for like? And if so like for like - how much on the donor engine? How would I check the history?

To my mind I need obviously a block, head new pistons & rings, forged H-conrods. I have in mind a different turbo than the 19T though this is something that can be figured out later.

I can regrind the valve seats myself.
Without access to expensive equipment - CNC lathe etc - what else can I do in a shed/ garage.

I have had issues with so-called dedicated experts on the transmission upgrade. This is a project I would look to do over the next winter.

Can I port the head & manifolds myself - or is this more of an machine shop job?? I'd expect to change the head gasket right - but should I look to get the mating surfaces redone?

In terms of build sequence - what do you think is best (looking to the likes of Spesh & James or smithy) who have already done a number of block drops before.

i would start with a 2.4 t5 engine mate just make sure that it will run with your management if so put forged rods and if the standard pistons are shot then forge them too.s60r/v70r manifold and a gt2871r fitted and mapped should be looking 400 bhp mate,i would not bother modding the head because
they flow well enough mate.

[jardon]

If going Garrett then be sure your suspension, brakes and diff are up to the job - that's a lot of oomph (Tim makes 450 lbs torque with his 2871). Sourcing an engine - you could speak to Ashok, Dave or Gaz - they have converted 2.5 R's. Engine management - no idea but yours is ME7 not ME9. Mapping - shouldn't be an issue if it's possible but I'd like some proof of experience with this conversion before I started. Rods and pistons - yes. Headwork - I would say do it if the engine is in bits and relative to the substantial total cost it's not crazy money (a skilled task so choose carefully). Sorry to hear about the transmission issues - if it isn't fixed yet then I can recommend Tim. Lastly - what you propose wouldn't be cheap so how much do you want the extra power (ignore that last bit - far too sensible).

[deathrider311271]

As Jardon says really, the only issue with the later 2.4 T5 motor is it has variable valve timing on both inlet and exhaust, our engines only run variable on the exhaust i believe. I looked at this engine earlier in the year but decided against it so im sticking with the ME7 engine with other mods.

[p fandango]

i would start with a 2.4 t5 engine mate just make sure that it will run with your management if so put forged rods and if the standard pistons are shot then forge them too.s60r/v70r manifold and a gt2871r fitted and mapped should be looking 400 bhp mate,i would not bother modding the head because they flow well enough mate.
would you go for the 0.64 or 0.86 housing on the turbo?

[jardon]

As Jardon says really, the only issue with the later 2.4 T5 motor is it has variable valve timing on both inlet and exhaust, our engines only run variable on the exhaust i believe. I looked at this engine earlier in the year but decided against it so im sticking with the ME7 engine with other mods.

I'm guessing you would stick with Autotech for mapping so make enquiries with them on what's possible with this proposed engine swap. The project hangs on that. I would say any proposed Garrett project on an ME7 vehicle needs the tuner to be switched on - otherwise a lot of money gets spent and the hardware under performs ie: it may be more cost effective to make the proposed engine mods but fit a Volvo turbo which the tuner is more familiar with and run it hard. It would certainly be less hassle and cost to fit a ported K24 for instance.

[Wobbly Dave]

If going Garrett then be sure your suspension, brakes and diff are up to the job - that's a lot of oomph (Tim makes 450 lbs torque with his 2871). Sourcing an engine - you could speak to Ashok, Dave or Gaz - they have converted 2.5 R's. Engine management - no idea but yours is ME7 not ME9. Mapping - shouldn't be an issue if it's possible but I'd like some proof of experience with this conversion before I started. Rods and pistons - yes. Headwork - I would say do it if the engine is in bits and relative to the substantial total cost it's not crazy money (a skilled task so choose carefully). Sorry to hear about the transmission issues - if it isn't fixed yet then I can recommend Tim. Lastly - what you propose wouldn't be cheap so how much do you want the extra power (ignore that last bit - far too sensible).
I think on balance that a like for like will present less issues along the way. I am uncertain about the differences in ME7 to ME9. Turbo wise I would probably like something that will bolt on directly.

My transmission project is complete & I am happy now. I was just saying because I want to try to avoid multiple drops like what happened in that project. The donor gearbox had issues - it was notchy & under certain conditions would jump out of 2nd gear on coast down. I have had this all resolved but it added another 30% to the final costs. I guess this is part of the accepted risk when doing this kind of thing. The clutch, DMF & transmission are super smooth now so I did get the result in the end but not without some wallet-based inflammation!! With this sorted now I feel confident I can move onto putting more though the wheels.

Ultimately if I can get 350 - 400 out of the block - I would be happy with the investment.
Key success indicators would be a 13 second quarter but retain an element of driveability during normal daily use.
Sub 5 second 0 -60 would be good but I wonder if that will be possible with FWD?
Peak figures are not that important - just a long sustainable torque curve - like I have now but just more of it.
Endurability would also be important too. I don't want to end up with something that will burn out in 2 years.

Part of me is also thinking that I should wait and get my current map finished before going with this - just looking for a winter project that doesn't involve using a paint brush or tile grout. i.e DIY.

Hasn't James put a new engine in recently in his green T5-R?

[Wobbly Dave]

Suspension wise I am all sorted. I have the bigger IPD ARBs - Bilstein B3 shocks & Eibach springs. I change the ARB droplinks as & when needed. IPD ones did not last any longer than the OEM. Brakes - I have the 302mm fronts with DS2500 all round, braided lines, 5.1 brake fluid - TBH - for a fast road application I am happy enough with them

[Wobbly Dave]

I agree with Jardon on the turbo choice - I was looking more towards the HLM hybrid. I have seen this successfully fitted to the 2.3 & 2.4 T5 engines. I have green injectors & hopefully these will be able to flow enough to keep the duty cycle within the tolerable limits which most more advanced modders are aware of.

My other motivation is that I still think that C70 has timeless lines & will still look good in the years to come. Certain the best handling of all the t5's I have driven.

My only other obstacle is political. The wife says that I need to spend the same amount on the house as I do on the car. I suppose this is fair enough. I fear that this will just turn into one of those pipedreams - but still it is nice to talk about it - so keep the ideas coming.

Jardon - when you say you'd like some proof of experience - are you talking about me or any professionals? I would certainly like some recommendations when it comes to outfits that help me on my way.

I would want to go the donor engine route - such that the project does have built-in flexibility with timelines. I am not talking pedro-style but if it took 2 seasons to get the engine ready - spread the cost etc - that would be fine.

How much can I expect to spend on rods & pistons?

[p fandango]

Ultimately if I can get 350 - 400 out of the block - I would be happy with the investment.
Key success indicators would be a 13 second quarter but retain an element of driveability during normal daily use.
Sub 5 second 0 -60 would be good but I wonder if that will be possible with FWD?
shouldn't you already within that power bracket with a 19t? My current PB for 0-60 is 5.7, that was the 15g, open diff & road tyres but you've thought you'd need to traction aids to get it sub 5

[Wobbly Dave]

Just think the physics is against me. I had a record 5.9 with the old black one at Donnington. It is not possible to tell what the current one is. Somewhere around 6?

I know what she makes with the 19t in the current setup - 305. If the boost is raised I would expect to see somewhere around 330 possibly.

[p fandango]

It is not possible to tell what the current one is. Somewhere around 6?
i use this link (http://www.wallaceracing.com/0-60_equation.php) & 1/8times/speed from your slips, check all your slips because your fastest 1/4mile might not of been your fastest 1/8

[Wobbly Dave]

Also this formula does not take into account horsepower curve

It says 5.13 but he makes some many assumptions about my engine turbo etc - it really is a wet finger guestimation

[p fandango]

It says 5.13 but he makes some many assumptions about my engine turbo etc - it really is a wet finger guestimation
no its not perfect, but as its using times collected from proper timing gear its a closer guestimate than using a £2.50app or stopwatch

5.13 is very impressive, what time did you get over the full run?

[Wobbly Dave]

14.6 @ 103. I will have to double check my stats again but I think my 1/8th was 8.9 seconds at 79 mph.

Congratulations on 10K posts.

[p fandango]

14.6 @ 103. I will have to double check my stats again but I think my 1/8th was 8.9 seconds at 79 mph.

Congratulations on 10K posts.
& a very good terminal speed as well

thank you sir

[Wobbly Dave]

My top 8th is not an issue - she has plenty of go in 3rd. Lower boost means I am pretty much going as quick as I can under the current configuration. Time for some more mods - hopefully get the map finished soon. Perhaps even before BT?













Hang on a minute I seem to remember something in Revelation - about the end of days. 4 riders of the Apocolypse & and you finishing that damn car.

[p fandango]

lol tbh now i've got the spare subframe i can see some money going into getting that built up, i've got a more income from this month so as long as i don't get to distracted the end could still be in sight. My own aim is to get her done for Santa Pods flame & thunder weekend in November, i have said her first 1/4mile will be at York tho

i don't think she'll ever be 100% finished, already got next years plans in action & will involve taking her back off the road again for some more serious work. Main aim at the minute tho is just to get her back on the road & get some 1/4mile times

[smithy]

if i was you have the 19t modded with say a 20g wheel fitted in it ,fit forged rods and if your pistons are shot forge them too and get a good map on it or turbo tuner it and turn that baby up to 1.5 bar you should hit 350+ bhp wirth that setup and good driveablity too.

[jardon]

A sub 13 quarter mile is a big ask and it won't come from your car at full weight with any stock Volvo turbo. The hlm hybrid will make no more peak power and possibly less than your 19t. A consistent and useable 400 bhp is garrett or similar territory and our 19t's may make 350 if the wind is blowing in the right direction - I need to get dyno'd but I'm guessing as you have at 330. What you will gain by turning up the boost on your current map is a wodge of mid range torque.

Your injector duty cycle WILL be high even now Dave - measure it! We can disregard the injector choices of users running earlier (and later) cars as their fuel systems are completely different.

I wasn't questioning your ability (though clearly be sensible about what you can acheive). The limiting factor when modifying an engine is always mapping so reassure yourself that what you have planned can be mapped by Autotech. My fear would be that you could spend a lot on an exotic engine rebuild and not end up with what you expected - taking a well trodden route does pose less problems.

I would absolutely get the current map finished - you might like it (my current map is nothing like the original 19t map).

JCviggen had a quick car (60-120 in 8 seconds) but his 0-60 was never lower than 5 seconds. His car was stripped, running a 3071 garrett and R888's. You have weight against you and unless drag slicks and BIG power are in your future it's never going to happen - 5.9secs is very good in a chunky fwd. I agree that the assumptions made in that performance calculator are optimistic.

No idea on the cost of rods etc.

[jardon]

if i was you have the 19t modded with say a 20g wheel fitted in it ,fit forged rods and if your pistons are shot forge them too and get a good map on it or turbo tuner it and turn that baby up to 1.5 bar you should hit 350+ bhp wirth that setup and good driveablity too.

I kind of agree but the limiting factor for TD04 turbos is the piddly turbine. Even with a big compressor the turbine will be saturated relatively early. It would spool early and hard but still fall flat up top. My turbine is clipped which helps but not hugely. I'd be interested to see the results of what you propose though. TT or diy is not an option at present.

Edit: Water/Methanol injection = easy free power with ME7 no matter what turbo you choose. If you want less power don't use it.