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View Full Version : Been told my T5-R has got a head gasket fail (but I'm not sure)...



Sean575
Monday 6th June 2011, 19:13
Dear fellow 850 owners and fonts of knowledge,

Not two days after having acquired my manual estate 850 T5-R, upon driving locally, I found steam rising from the gap between the O/S wing and the bonnet. I quickly pulled over and looked to see a spray pattern of coolant from lid area of the coolant tank across the bay area (which was the cause of the steam as the engine was hot). The coolant did not fully drain away like a leaking radiator would cause and I topped it up before limping to a garage nearby. As the temperature rose, the water went down again but not as much, leaking out only from under the lid as far as I could see. I allowed the engine to cool as it was in the red zone. I could also feel the water bubbling in the fat rubber hose towards the front driver side of the engine bay immediately after engine switch-off (but no apparent leaking from any areas other than the lid of the filler tank).

The mechanic at the garage (who advertises as a Volvo specialist) said he was certain it was a head gasket failure. I questioned the lack of steam shooting out the back of the car through the exhaust, the absence of any change in power or smoothness of the engine etc. but he said it would not necessarily have happened with such an engine as it is different in several ways. He also claimed that you won't necessarily see the merging of oil and water in the engine like you might on other cars but I can't remember the reason he gave for this. He said it was the head because the result is that it will keep building up temperature and pressure in the filler tank/water circulation system, forcing it up and out any point it can find. He says rubber water pipes can 'bloat' under enough pressure.

He also told me that the valves as well as a lot of other parts are different on the T5-R than on normal T5 engines. He says that because it is a turbo, the job of a head skim etc. is more tricky and costly. Is this true? I thought the lump and most ancillarier were the same.

Should I smell a rat?
Must there be water in the oil for it to be a gasket failure?
Can I have a failure with absolutely no detectable change in engine performance and behaviour apart from an increase in engine temperature?
Can you please tell me anything else I ought to look for/ask before committing to repair work?

What is the most cost effective way for determing if there is a head-gasket failure?

The car is manual and has covered 142k.

I look forward to any assistance you can provide me with at this worrying time :)

Sean

nottsgreent5
Monday 6th June 2011, 19:42
i had a very similer problem with a 2ltr 20 vale few years ago changed the rad cap n hey presto cured it worth ago as they cheap from dealers lol

p fandango
Monday 6th June 2011, 19:47
they actually changed the design of the expansion bottle lid, old one is grey while the newer ones are green

Volvostorm
Monday 6th June 2011, 19:52
That would be my first port of call, change the cap.

T5frankie
Monday 6th June 2011, 20:11
It could be a sticky thermostat, I had the beginnings of a head gasket failure with no visible symptoms except loss of water I put a better cap on and it made it worse there was nowhere for the pressure to come out except down through the head gasket

Sean575
Monday 6th June 2011, 20:22
Thanks for replies so far.

Just wondered, as the water was boiling and under massive pressure, wouldn't this automatically indicate a more serious problem of sorts?

Tomcat
Monday 6th June 2011, 20:38
Not necessarily, if the engine's been run and is at temo then the water is obviously going to be hot. Check the expansion cap, if it's grey then take it off and have a loot at the underneath, the grey ones crack, if it's cracked then it's odd's on it's the cap.

Sounds like the guy you spoke to is talking out of his arse, the R's have exactly the same engine as the standard T5's, I'd at least get a second opinion before trusting him and throwing lots of money at it.

Sean575
Monday 6th June 2011, 21:07
And just to check, with the temperature gauge hitting the red, is that super high water temperature indication potentially caused by a failing coolant lid pushing water out (and presumably allowing air in)
?

Volvostorm
Monday 6th June 2011, 21:07
Another thing you could try, take it to a garage (different one) and get them to do a sniff test on it. This will test for exhaust gases in the coolant system.

Sean575
Monday 6th June 2011, 21:31
Will do mate, I will be chatting to a well-respected mechanic of my friend locally who I will ask about this as well as a valve pressure check.

Blinking batteries in the remote seem to have just died and I have walked two miles to Tesco only to find they only so the wrong sizes! (Dammit).

Sean575
Monday 6th June 2011, 22:03
Just looked and found that the 'water' that dripped out under the car has not dried despite falling on the spot almost three hours ago. It is slightly darker than the reddish colour of the coolant and does have an oily feel to it...
Shall I take this as confirmation that I definately do have a head gasket failure everyone?

silverswedemachine
Monday 6th June 2011, 22:22
Ignore the 'oily' feel, its just antifreeze... Do the cheap options first, get a new thermostat and a green cap for the header tank, be sure to bleed the system properly, also you did not say how long you had been driving when the temperature hit the red, if it was only a mile or two then chances are its the thermostat thats not opening...

Volvostorm
Monday 6th June 2011, 22:22
Could also be the oil cooler has split and is leaking into the rad, the cooler is inside the rad, and when it goes it get the look of a h/gasket gone, oil in water and water in oil.

Sean575
Monday 6th June 2011, 22:37
Wow, there is still hope!

I was only driving for about five to ten minutes (5 miles) when the problem occured.

It really is great to have such assistance so thank you everyone!

manback
Monday 6th June 2011, 22:47
When my head went it made the expansion cap his like a boiling kettle.

The gasket can fail in many ways though. There is the pistons, oil system and water system all flowing in there so either can be In another but not necessarily all.

Also you don't always need to head skimming unless it's warped. If you catch a leak before it goes it might just be the cost of a gasket!

Sean575
Monday 6th June 2011, 23:11
I see, I suppose what I need to know is the most straightforward of determining if the head gasket has gone, any suggestions?

Also, if I have a 'decent' engine fitted as a replacement, isn't this a little safer usually than having a skim (if a skim or gasket replacement is required)?

T5frankie
Tuesday 7th June 2011, 06:15
I see, I suppose what I need to know is the most straightforward of determining if the head gasket has gone, any suggestions?

Also, if I have a 'decent' engine fitted as a replacement, isn't this a little safer usually than having a skim (if a skim or gasket replacement is required)?

the car xill be losing water either into the engine or out through the cap, if its mixing with oil you notice the creamy oil. MY last s70 was losing water and ran fine the pressure does need to escape somewhere

Alan M
Tuesday 7th June 2011, 06:24
Change the thermostat as a first point of call. The expansion bottle cracking is a common fault also so change that and your expansion cap along with the thermostat. As mentioned above sit to one side the idea, for a small while, that you have felt an oily substance as that is more than likely the anti freeze. What colour antifreeze was filled in the car to begin with, red? Try the remedial work of changing the thermostat, cap and bottle first then refil your antifreeze then monitor for problems. Your collant temp sensor may also be at fault but change the other parts first.

Flatout Phil
Tuesday 7th June 2011, 07:40
Another thing you could try, take it to a garage (different one) and get them to do a sniff test on it. This will test for exhaust gases in the coolant system.

Exactly where I would start. And yes, he is talking out his arse re differences and as for skims being more expensive???? A skim is a skim is a skim! Unless he meant a SCAM!
Thermostat for starters and expansion bottle as per Alan's comments above. Having been brought up on Hillman Imps - famous for their head gaskets - I feel some degree of authority to comment ;)

manback
Tuesday 7th June 2011, 13:56
just remember a replacement head may be cheeper than getting yours skimmed. especially if you can get one with a warrenty. mine was £40 with a 30 day guarentee, so if failed you just pop it back. a massive waste of time but can save you some pennies.

Sean575
Tuesday 7th June 2011, 23:11
I have two different mechanic's view that it is probably the head gasket because of the amount of pressure that built up in order to force water from under the coolant cap. I have checked the cap and there are no signs of a crack or any other problems with it.

Eitherway, a third mechanic, (one my own trusted but presently too busy mechanic has referred me to) will be checking the water system to see if it is just related to the pump or stat for instance. Next if required, he'll do a compression test and after that if required he will remove the head.

He said only if the lower block was cracked would a replacement engine be needed but reckoned this is extremely rare. He is prepared to do a skim, replacing the head gasket if required or getting a replacement head too if required. Not counting ancillaries, he has said in the region of three to four hundred quid for the work to the engine if it is failing. This is a lot less than the other guy who gave me all the **** about R cars having different engines to normal T-5's. He quoted 650 plus vat (minimum) not counting ancillaries.

This car is a dream to drive and is clean, inside and out. I'll sell a bodypart to get it fixed if I have to!