Wont start no spark

[96T5Andy]

So.. I didn't use the car for 3 weeks or so. Went to start, battery flat, put on charge. Fit charged battery. Turns over, over and doesn't start.

Had a problem with one of ECU pins corroded causing similar problem a while ago. Removed ECU, sprayed dodgy pin with WD40, gave a scrape, still no joy

Check at sparkplug end, no spark. Cleaned dizzy cap, rotor arm. No spark. Checked spark from coil - none. Resistances over coil reading correctly, also being supplied 12v.

Fuel in fuel rail (checked schrader valve). Hear fuel pump operating, sounds no different to normal.

Tried 3 different keys, also activated / deactivated immobiliser. Checked all fuses in fusebox.

Have checked previous threads, nobananas mentions a relay on top right of radiator possible wiring fault causing no voltage to crank position sensor?. Cant find said relay - can only see 3 for cooling fan on top left of radiator and one in the middle for something or other.

Could anyone suggest where exactly is this relay and does anyone have any other suggestions of obvious things to check? (bearing in mind i have a very limited set of tools and knowledge)

Thanks in advance
Andy

[nobananas]

So.. I didn't use the car for 3 weeks or so. Went to start, battery flat, put on charge. Fit charged battery. Turns over, over and doesn't start.

Had a problem with one of ECU pins corroded causing similar problem a while ago. Removed ECU, sprayed dodgy pin with WD40, gave a scrape, still no joy

Check at sparkplug end, no spark. Cleaned dizzy cap, rotor arm. No spark. Checked spark from coil - none. Resistances over coil reading correctly, also being supplied 12v.

Fuel in fuel rail (checked schrader valve). Hear fuel pump operating, sounds no different to normal.

Tried 3 different keys, also activated / deactivated immobiliser. Checked all fuses in fusebox.

Have checked previous threads, nobananas mentions a relay on top right of radiator possible wiring fault causing no voltage to crank position sensor?. Cant find said relay - can only see 3 for cooling fan on top left of radiator and one in the middle for something or other.

Could anyone suggest where exactly is this relay and does anyone have any other suggestions of obvious things to check? (bearing in mind i have a very limited set of tools and knowledge)

Thanks in advance
Andy

The relay on mine was on the right hand side (as you look at it) and tucked right under the radiator top cover, I seem to remember having to remove the top intercooler pipe to get to it properly. The relay itself was okay but the wiring going to the multiplug was bent back at right angles and had rotted as it went into the connector. From what I remember the relay also supplied the cam sensor feed as it was this that I found was missing which I traced back to the relay. Your symptoms are identical to mine, coil had power, had fuel but no spark. I'm wondering if the relay you mention in the middle is the same one as the wiring is long enough to move it around the radiator area.

[nobananas]

Just ran out with my phone, forgive the cr@ppy picture !
http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m279/nobananas000/Photo-0009.jpg

Ignore the red/purple wiring, and the other black relay (blue connectors at the top of the pic), you won't have them LOL !, it's the grey box you're looking for. The pictures orientations a bit weird, the ribbed lines at the right are the radiator top panel and the top intercooler boost pipe is to the left, the hose clip is the start of the right angle rubber hose to the intercooler.

[claymore]

Interesting, I havn't got that relay on mine.

[nobananas]

Interesting, I havn't got that relay on mine.

No that's not interesting....it's starting to get weird though !

[96T5Andy]

Just ran out with my phone, forgive the cr@ppy picture !
http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m279/nobananas000/Photo-0009.jpg

Ignore the red/purple wiring, and the other black relay (blue connectors at the top of the pic), you won't have them LOL !, it's the grey box you're looking for. The pictures orientations a bit weird, the ribbed lines at the right are the radiator top panel and the top intercooler boost pipe is to the left, the hose clip is the start of the right angle rubber hose to the intercooler.

nobananas, thanks for the help! I will check this tomorrow. Hopefully I will be able to sort it.

I shall be pissed off if I cant as it means I may have to sell. £50 an hour seems to be the going rate for mechanics, and if it cant be sorted within a couple of hours I may have to sell up - don't want to though given that I've just forked out on a cambelt change etc and I absolutely love the car - But given that VED renewals coming up in April (£220?), filling a tank probably costs about £80 now and insurance seems to be going up at a ridiculous rate but I just can't justify another large outlay on it for the 3000 or so miles I do a year! *rant over*

[nobananas]

nobananas, thanks for the help! I will check this tomorrow. Hopefully I will be able to sort it.

I shall be pissed off if I cant as it means I may have to sell. £50 an hour seems to be the going rate for mechanics, and if it cant be sorted within a couple of hours I may have to sell up - don't want to though given that I've just forked out on a cambelt change etc and I absolutely love the car - But given that VED renewals coming up in April (£220?), filling a tank probably costs about £80 now and insurance seems to be going up at a ridiculous rate but I just can't justify another large outlay on it for the 3000 or so miles I do a year! *rant over*

Know what you mean mate, these motors are starting to get expensive to run. The missus is doing 60-70 miles a day in hers commuting to work which equates to a tankful a week. I spent over a grand a couple of years ago rebuilding the engine and turbo for it (that's just in parts !) just to standard spec so feel somewhat obliged to keep it on the road now despite the rising costs. Whatever is wrong with yours will be something simple, just a bugger to find (when my relay problem happened it left us stranded in a campsite in the Lakes for 3 days, I was logging on here from an internet cafe and the help and offers I got from members to send parts was fantastic !). If the relay thing isn't the problem it may be a crank or cam sensor that has given up or maybe ignition amp, all bits should be easily and cheaply sourced from guys on here breaking their Volvo's.

[96T5Andy]

thanks for the support nb. checked the relay and wiring immediately off it (picture helped in identifying it) - wiring didn't look too bad, think the problem maybe somewhere else. just for information mine was hidden under that top ridged panel, clipped into a holder. Had to remove the pipe to get it out. seems an odd place to put it..

Going to try and get a professional to look at it tomorrow or later in the week, hopefully I've missed something really obvious...

thanks again

[nobananas]

thanks for the support nb. checked the relay and wiring immediately off it (picture helped in identifying it) - wiring didn't look too bad, think the problem maybe somewhere else.

Going to try and get a professional to look at it tomorrow or later in the week, hopefully I've missed something really obvious...

thanks again

To be 100 percent it's not the relay you can bridge out the switched connections of the multiplug which will make the circuit the same way as it would if the relay was connected and working, otherwise good luck.

[96T5Andy]

just measured resistance of crank position sensor (should have done this earlier but didnt know what reading to look for) this document helped:

http://www.volvoclub.org.uk/tech/service/850/SystemComponentTests-Turbo.pdf

apparently reading should be in the region 200-500ohms for cam position sensor its currently infinite resistance.

Have bought a replacement off ebay. hope that this is the problem and that my continual fiddling and probing hasn't damaged any other components!

cheers, andy

[nobananas]

just measured resistance of crank position sensor (should have done this earlier but didnt know what reading to look for) this document helped:

http://www.volvoclub.org.uk/tech/service/850/SystemComponentTests-Turbo.pdf

apparently reading should be in the region 200-500ohms for cam position sensor its currently infinite resistance.

Have bought a replacement off ebay. hope that this is the problem and that my continual fiddling and probing hasn't damaged any other components!

cheers, andy

Here's hoping for the sake of your sanity LOL !

[96T5Andy]

turns out the crank pos sensor was 280 ohms and it was the cam pos sensor which i was measuring and ordered off ebay. what a dunce.

I changed the cam pos sensor anyway just as a matter of course and no difference. the wiring to the cam pos sensor is getting 12v.

Will try to get it booked into the garage. Hopefully they might figure it out!

[96T5Andy]

Right, crank sensor and cam sensor both now changed
ECU replaced with non-remapped one that came with the car
£120 spent at garage so far tracing the fault (and replacing the crank sensor)
Still no spark!

The codes have been read, the ECU is Bosch A5.2 on a '96 car.
Code reader says:

Total Codes 002
Code001:
IMM- Initiation
321 Signal, ECM
Signal Missing

Code002:
IMM-0 [6,0,0,0],
000 Please refer to
Relevant
Technical
manual

I have a suspicion that code002 might be a lie. I though all codes were number-number-number

Ive searched google and this forum for an answer but come back with little (possibly because code 3-2-1 seems to mean different things on different models from what I can tell?!). Man at garage seems to think that this is possibly a fault with the signal from the immobiliser to the ECU. All keys tried and key fob working.

Anyone come across this before / got any suggestions or ideas?!
All I can think of is ripping apart the dashboard and checking the wiring to the immobiliser, failing that, replace Immobiliser & keys with some from another identical car?

Thanks in advance.

[Dangerous Dave]

What about the sensor ring on the igniton switch which picks up the key code? Or don't the 850s have one, I forget?

[96T5Andy]

What about the sensor ring on the igniton switch which picks up the key code? Or don't the 850s have one, I forget?

apparently its picking up the key code fine

[Dangerous Dave]

Have you seen this thread?

http://www.volvot5.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=14900

And have you checked the camshaft sensor?

[96T5Andy]

Have you seen this thread?

http://www.volvot5.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=14900

And have you checked the camshaft sensor?

No I hadnt seen that thread
yes camshaft sensor checked & replaced

Will check for dirty immobiliser connections tomorow, probably (ECU connections have been cleaned - this was the first thing I did as a corroded pin on the ECU connector has been responsible for a similar problem before)

[nobananas]

Was just thinking, have you checked out the ignition amp/module, it's under the coil. If this has failed you won't get a spark and it seems like you have checked/replaced most other likely suspects.

[nottsgreent5]

mite be worth changing the starter motor if you have a spare as i had a similer fault with a friends t5 turns out it was drawing to much power and not feeding the coil correctly even tho it sounded fine will the car push start

[96T5Andy]

mite be worth changing the starter motor if you have a spare as i had a similer fault with a friends t5 turns out it was drawing to much power and not feeding the coil correctly even tho it sounded fine will the car push start

Havn't checked if it will push start. If I get the chance ill try - easier said than done on our road though! but my gut feeling its not the starter motor. Ive also tried with a fully charged battery and a booster attached at the same time so plenty of ampage available.

[96T5Andy]

Was just thinking, have you checked out the ignition amp/module, it's under the coil. If this has failed you won't get a spark and it seems like you have checked/replaced most other likely suspects.

The mechanic checked this - the conclusion on this was that the ECU isnt sending the pulse to the amp / module...

Going to bugger around with the immobiliser tomorow and spray the whole car with electrical contact cleaner in a last ditch attempt.

Unfortunately if that doesnt work, I just cannot justify spending any more on it, given how much the tank now costs to fill. Sad though it is, its an amazing car. Fastest, most comfortable and until now the most reliable Ive ever owned, and probably ever will own, and for 3 happy years I have been living the dream.

Alas it looks like it'll be up on Ebay very soon. Ill keep you all posted. If it does end up that way, ill be hoping to get around the £300+ mark (ambitious you might think, but one in worse condition went for £290 today with no tax or MOT)

Thanks for all the help so far

[96T5Andy]

RIGHT GOOD & BAD NEWS!

Went back to check the "main relay" again, the one nobananas mentions on top of the radiator. tests fine. But - not heard it clicking when ignition on so - shorted the two connectors on the plug, and hear a relay over by the fuel injectors click. Turn the ignition and hey presto it starts - for a second!

Anyway, it now seems i've shafted something else in doing this as when I short the connections now no noise comes from over by the injectors.

Any ideas what i've shafted? If I had some decent wiring diagrams I might fare a little better with this - chuffing haynes manuals useless.

[Volvostorm]

These any good to you mate?

http://www.volvoclub.org.uk/volvo_workshop-850techdocs.shtml

[Dangerous Dave]

Any ideas what i've shafted? If I had some decent wiring diagrams I might fare a little better with this - chuffing haynes manuals useless.
You have a PM

[96T5Andy]

thanks for the support nb. checked the relay and wiring immediately off it (picture helped in identifying it) - wiring didn't look too bad, think the problem maybe somewhere else. just for information mine was hidden under that top ridged panel, clipped into a holder. Had to remove the pipe to get it out. seems an odd place to put it..

Going to try and get a professional to look at it tomorrow or later in the week, hopefully I've missed something really obvious...

thanks again

It would appear, that although the wiring to the main relay you mentioned looks ok, and is getting a voltage with ignition on from the ECU, but as soon as you put any load on it, you cant draw any current, and the relay should draw about 0.15A.

So it looks like either I will have to wire up a manual switch to replace the relay for the time being (which is far from ideal solution - but may have to do this until I can get the car to somewhere dry and light to work on) or replace the cable run back to where the ECU plugs in (which I reckon will probably be a right fiddle)

Unfortunately after starting it the power steering pump is noisy and behaving strangely and engine sounds quite tappetty. Im hoping that this is just because its been sat out in the cold & rain for a month going nowhere!

At least we have the cause of the problem, nobananas I should have investigated more closely on your first post! would have save me about £120! An expensive lesson, but can conclude that even if it gives a voltage and looks ok, it probably isnt!

This forum is such a great help! Looks like ill be keeping the beast for a bit longer!

[96T5Andy]

15 miles later and the power steering pump has quietened down and the tappety noise is gone.

Just now to re-lay the dodgy cable between the relay and the ecu (in the comfort of my parents garage). happy days! thanks everyone. Ill shut up now as im sure your all fed up hearing about it!

[Al115]

Glad she's running again :)

[Dangerous Dave]

Great news there buddy.

You've got to look on the positive side, at least now you have learned more about how things in the engine bay work, and what to look for it it plays up again.

Happy Volvoing!

[nobananas]

Glad you got it sorted mate, at least yours didn't strand you in a muddy field in the Lake District ! To be honest I did the same thing with mine when it wouldn't start, I checked the relay quickly, gave it the okay and dismissed it then spent two more days looking for something more serious before coming back to the same relay and checking it again !