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Kent Canary
Monday 18th July 2005, 16:24
Well Im wondering about an LPG conversion to help keep the costs down. Had a little noodle about on the net and theres a few sources, including one where theyve got pics of a converted T5 Estate.

Has anyone else had this done?

What are peoples opinions on LPG?

Is it worth the intial cost over long term saving?

Whats the average cost?

All these questions and more..

Murphy
Monday 18th July 2005, 16:46
http://www.greenfuel.org.uk/

Based on 10k / annum

Vehicle: Volvo S70 2.3 T5 SE Saloon 4d 2319cc
LPG System Greenfuel (36945)
Tank Toroidal
Cost of Conversion £1,725.00 + VAT
Net Cost of Conversion £2,026.88 inc VAT
Petrol Spend PA £1,625.74 per year [based on 86.9 p/l and 10000 / annum]
LPG Spend PA £841.87 per year
Saving PA £783.87 per year
Return on Investment 39%
CO2 Saving 1.56 Tonnes
Approved by top 20
insurance companies Yes
Based on 15k / annum

Net Cost of Conversion £2,026.88 inc VAT
Petrol Spend PA £2,438.61 per year
LPG Spend PA £1,262.80 per year
Saving PA £1,175.81 per year
Return on Investment 58%

Based on 20k / annum

Cost of Conversion £1,725.00 + VAT
Net Cost of Conversion £2,026.88 inc VAT
Petrol Spend PA £3,251.48 per year
LPG Spend PA £1,683.74 per year
Saving PA £1,567.75 per year
Return on Investment 77%

The idea of LPG seems to make lots of sense. It is something i would consider in the event of me having a petrol again, which i think is highly likely.

volvotuning
Monday 18th July 2005, 16:55
Do these figures take into account the much lower MPG you get with LPG?

Adam.

Murphy
Monday 18th July 2005, 17:03
Not sure how it works - they obviously take everything into account when calculating their figures, but like all businesses it is made to look better than it might be - I think LPG is to suite people who don't like Diesels basically - and it gives options to people who want more powerful petrols etc etc

Does RICA work with LPG or have we done this before Adam ?

volvotuning
Monday 18th July 2005, 17:07
LPG is not really suitable for tuning. I've seen a few people with problems after tuning with LPG.

Adam.

Murphy
Monday 18th July 2005, 17:18
That is a shame :( Looks like i will have to aim for an S60R then ;)

lance
Monday 18th July 2005, 17:28
I had a Merc 220te converted it would return 20-25 mpg on gas and about 22-30mpg on petrol . It ran well for the first 15k then it started to mess up!
I can see the benefits on a V8 Landrover or Rangerover but I personally wouldnt want to mess with a T5 as you would probably loose performance and if anything does go wrong it soon knocks fuel savings on the head!

Kent Canary
Monday 18th July 2005, 17:30
It does seema very expensive outlay initially, though I appreciate there might be a long term saving. How long will LPG be low in price I wonder. Im not interested in tuning so that aspect doesnt bother me. Shelling out though for a near the price of another car does seem a tad steep..

lance
Monday 18th July 2005, 17:43
It does seema very expensive outlay initially, though I appreciate there might be a long term saving. How long will LPG be low in price I wonder. Im not interested in tuning so that aspect doesnt bother me. Shelling out though for a near the price of another car does seem a tad steep..

I reckon you could get the cost down to about £1200, but be carefull as being a turbo you need to get the system right.
1 backfire can kill and airmass metre or maybe a turbo or inlet valves + it runs dry not giving the engine as much lubrication,plus anyone that says it aids resale adds value is talking out there Ars+ as you would loose boot space as a donut tank would be too small for a t5, I can see the benefits work well on a v8 landy with upper cylinder lube kit but I really wouldnt bother on a turbo charged car.
Personally I would go for a D5 and rica

monsterdark
Monday 18th July 2005, 19:19
Have a look @ my link to this guys site ring him this guy knows all about LPG for performance cars. & on intial start up cars start on petrol then after i few seconds click over to gas so no damage to your car, if you decide to go LPG do for the direct injection version this will work for our T5

http://www.volvot5.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=3239

the_boy
Monday 18th July 2005, 21:50
Sounds similar to me, since moving in with the GF my weekly mileage has gone from 50 to 250 miles per week and now I just can't afford to keep filling her up with Optimax.

I was toying with getting a Fabia vRS and get decent mpg. However I would have to hope I could get 7 grand for mine and pay an extra 3 for it.

On the flip side, I could get an LPG conversion for £1800ish on the C70 and get some bits upgraded for the 3 grand I would have had to shell out for the vRS. The car will have lost most of it's depreciation by now anyway.

Adam, would you be very loathe to tune a car that's had an LPG conversion? I've been on a few forums and ther seems to be people who both rant and rave about them. To be able to get the same mileage for half the price with the performance of a T5 RICA would make it an interesting prospect!

Was looking at these guys....http://www.f1automotive.com

Kent Canary
Monday 18th July 2005, 22:14
my thoughts were along the same lines in relation to economy etc. I am loathed to spend quite a large amount up front though. At my local shell its 42p for lpg comapred to 90.2 for Optimax, so I could effectively half my fuel bill. Its a tempting offer and I would absolutely hate to let the car go. Im not at that stage yet, in fact far from it, but Im just trying to planj ahead a bit and consider all options.

The T5 estate pics Ive seen do have a doughnut tank in the spare wheel bay, but think Id lose less space if I had one in the boot itself.

If it was cheaper Id seriously think about it but I have my doubts about the initial outlay.

NugentS
Monday 18th July 2005, 23:14
I have an 2.5 LPT on LPG and done 70+K miles almost entirely on LPG. The system has paid for itself.

Problems so far:
1. Broken wire about 1 month ago that killed the LPG system - petrol still worked.

And thats it. I like it.

However - I would be very careful about tuning an LPG car - I have been trying to convince myself that its doable - but have failed so far.

Sean

volvotuning
Tuesday 19th July 2005, 00:02
We won't tune a car converted to LPG. But if you want to tune the petrol car first, then have the LPG conversion done after, that's fine because then the responsibility lies solely with you and the LPG installer, and it will probably end up much safer that way. Unfortunately that's the line we have to take. Harsh, maybe, but at least everyone knows where they stand.

To be honest, if you want T5 performance but also want twice the fuel economy, best get a diesel.

Adam.

Kent Canary
Tuesday 19th July 2005, 10:05
Cheers NugentS.

Photos of the converted T5 Estate are here: http://www.2kwebs.co.uk/lpg/pages/volvo%20t5.htm though theres not a great deal to see. Like I say tuning doesnt bother me though I cant afford a D5 either. If push comes to shove Id hate to tamper with the T5 - If LPG was a bit cheaper id be more inclined to give it a go.

monsterdark
Tuesday 19th July 2005, 16:45
The guy that runs the above garage has a scobby tuned on LPG, have been in it & have had a go in it & it flys believe me. You can flick off the gas & run on petrol Have a go in his citroen xantia that also has been tuned what a blast that is & fun drive indeed

lance
Tuesday 19th July 2005, 17:30
All well and good if you are an expert engineer with diagnostics , but you are asking a lot for a high performance turbo and tunned car to run well, mine felt brisker on gas than petrol at times and quieter but, it didnt stop lots of annoying issues after the guy who fitted the kit disapeared after 15k I had to have a new condenser-evaporater thing, and she had a habit of eating air flow meters at £270 a shot!
My very trusted mechanic says the LPG S60s are crap,not that reliable and the D5 is so much better!

For the money I saved and made on LPG I was getting upto 65p a mile and upto 140 miles a day high speed cruising half price.
I lost loads of practicality with a 70 L cylinder tank in my boot!
Had serious running issues at tickover not good in an auto an traffic!
Long distance overheating issues!
Sudden Backfires that could kill an airflow meter and cause tickover problems and probably knacker inlet valves.
The original fitter had stopped doing that business (not the only 1 round here)and loads of people after him.
I was lucky I bumped the above on a tradder for my first Volvo before it was too knackered it took him months to shift and when it did it was back there with the bonnet up!
The tradder thought he had one on me but I new different and he had not been good about a car sold to a mate of mine.
So a high mile LPG merc estate for a low miles volvo sallon even if he put the merc up for almost twice the price he soon started dropping the price and having all the issues.
I think the only way to go with LPG is landrovers and brand new fleet cars I really wouldnt want to risk messing up a lovely old T5.

NugentS
Friday 22nd July 2005, 19:30
We won't tune a car converted to LPG. But if you want to tune the petrol car first, then have the LPG conversion done after, that's fine because then the responsibility lies solely with you and the LPG installer, and it will probably end up much safer that way. Unfortunately that's the line we have to take. Harsh, maybe, but at least everyone knows where they stand.

To be honest, if you want T5 performance but also want twice the fuel economy, best get a diesel.

Adam.

Alternatively get a dual map - tuned on Petrol and non-tuned on LPG......

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Adam - assuming that you could take a signal from the LPG system to indicate wether the car was on gas or LPG - could you dual map one?

Sean

NugentS
Friday 22nd July 2005, 19:33
Blowbacks are only normally found on single point LPG systems. I have never heard of a blow back on a "proper" SGI system.

My personal opinion is that although the single points are much cheaper - avoid like the plague on anything other than an old landi or similar. On a modern car use SGI...

Sean