What would be involved in fitting an S60R engine to a C70 coupe?

[After_Shock]

Just a daft idea really but how much work would be involved in fitting an R engine to an old shape C70 Coupe, would it work with the ME7 ECU, can it connect to the T5 gearbox, are the engine mounts totally different etc etc and has anything like that been done??

[The Flying Moose]

Im sure its probably been done before. The pricipal is straight forward. The block and anciallaries could be modified to fit by using S60R subframe etc or modifiying the existing one. It would be a hell of a lot of work though and the electrics would require an experienced mechanic at best.

Ultimately though.... why? The S60R engine is weaker the the T5 fitted to the C70.

[After_Shock]

Ultimately though.... why? The S60R engine is weaker the the T5 fitted to the C70.

Is it thought it was forged internals on the R engine?

[The Flying Moose]

Is it thought it was forged internals on the R engine?

Affraid I dont know enough about the actual internals of the engine to comment but the block itself is weaker and I have read stories about them cracking between the cylinders due to the size of the bore. Its basically the same 2.3 engine but bored out to 2.5 and reducing the amount of metal and strength between each cylinder.

[Jamest5r]

Is it thought it was forged internals on the R engine?

You are correct mate, an easier way would be to buy the s60r rods and have them fitted to you engine, thats what smithy done with his v70 and the was running a t35 so they can take a bit of abuse.

[smithy]

Affraid I dont know enough about the actual internals of the engine to comment but the block itself is weaker and I have read stories about them cracking between the cylinders due to the size of the bore. Its basically the same 2.3 engine but bored out to 2.5 and reducing the amount of metal and strength between each cylinder.

sorry to say this mate but the 2.5 is different to the 2.3 block.the 2.3 block is a 2.0 block with a longer throw crank and different pistons.the 2435 block is what you are talking about is the same block as the 2.5 but with a longer throw crank to make it 2.5.the s60 r engine has got forged rods and pistons fitted as standard mate.and the reason why they crack is because of too much heat inside the pistons bores. but if you use a big enough turbo to keep the intake charges cooler and a custom intercooler no probs

[The Flying Moose]

sorry to say this mate but the 2.5 is different to the 2.3 block.the 2.3 block is a 2.0 block with a longer throw crank and different pistons.the 2435 block is what you are talking about is the same block as the 2.5 but with a longer throw crank to make it 2.5.the s60 r engine has got forged rods and pistons fitted as standard mate.and the reason why they crack is because of too much heat inside the pistons bores. but if you use a big enough turbo to keep the intake charges cooler and a custom intercooler no probs

Knew someone would put me right! I was roughly on the right lines though ;)

Slowly getting there smithy.... slowly.

[smithy]

Knew someone would put me right! I was roughly on the right lines though ;)

Slowly getting there smithy.... slowly.

lol dont worry mate i learnt when i built my last v70

[martybelfastt5]

technical knowledge overload!!! i got dizzy there lol,,,id just buy a t5 lol

[Turkish]

Without a doubt, if you are going to go down this route, then look for a 2.4 T5 unit from the S60/V70 2005 onwards models. A few people have changed their S60R engines for this unit, all the best bits from the R engine with MUCH better reliability, will produce the same power too.

Lots of these engines around as fitted to the Police spec T5's from that era.

[Wobbly Dave]

I agree with the Turk. That 2.4 litre block from the MY2005 T5 is probably the best of both worlds. Wegal certainly showed its strength at the rolling road day - with over 300 at the wheels.

[RT MECHANICS]

Without a doubt, if you are going to go down this route, then look for a 2.4 T5 unit from the S60/V70 2005 onwards models. A few people have changed their S60R engines for this unit, all the best bits from the R engine with MUCH better reliability, will produce the same power too.

Lots of these engines around as fitted to the Police spec T5's from that era.

What make of software did these said cars have........

[Santa]

A few people have changed their S60R engines for this unit, all the best bits from the R engine with MUCH better reliability, will produce the same power too.

I've been tempted to do this with my S60R.....but the engine has proven to be the most reliable part of the car so far. (Touch wood).

[Turkish]

What make of software did these said cars have........

I would not like to comment...

Back to the OP's thread...

[After_Shock]

Some interesting reading in that lot.

Best advice is just stick with the standard T5 engine basically.

Whos who in T5 tuning these days been a few years since I was in the fold?

[Wobbly Dave]

Some interesting reading in that lot.

Best advice is just stick with the standard T5 engine basically.

Whos who in T5 tuning these days been a few years since I was in the fold?
Duck & Cover!!! Expecting an E-raid from T5D5

In no particular order

Chad - now deals RICA as one of many resellers & has a garage I believe in the West Mids
Turbo-Tuner - aka Adam Webber formally of HLM Chiptuning (which is now just HLM) is doing P&P USB style DIY mapping amongst other things, though this is just purely on ECU side of things
RT Mechanics are further south - doing all kinds of things - also RICA reseller IIRC.
HLM - is still run by Hamish and have a number of good offerings including ATM (Swedish based tuner)
SW Autos (in Kent) - geordies/macams will not be understood ;) - I have not heard so much about Stuart doing a great deal with Volvo's recently - but given your location - I guess that is not so important?

Not really heard of anyone doing a great deal in the NE I'm afraid.

Anyway nice to have you back. You gonna get another C70 I guess? Mines running 305 Bhp with a bit more to come I hope. Good to have you here.

[Wobbly Dave]

ps - Out of the 4 custom remaps I have had - I found that the ATM map is the best. I managed the most efficient force out of the 19T - getting over 300bhp for only 1 Bar boost.

[RT MECHANICS]

Duck & Cover!!! Expecting an E-raid from T5D5

In no particular order

Chad - now deals RICA as one of many resellers & has a garage I believe in the West Mids
Turbo-Tuner - aka Adam Webber formally of HLM Chiptuning (which is now just HLM) is doing P&P USB style DIY mapping amongst other things, though this is just purely on ECU side of things
RT Mechanics are further south - doing all kinds of things - also RICA reseller IIRC.
HLM - is still run by Hamish and have a number of good offerings including ATM (Swedish based tuner)
SW Autos (in Kent) - geordies/macams will not be understood ;) - I have not heard so much about Stuart doing a great deal with Volvo's recently - but given your location - I guess that is not so important?

Not really heard of anyone doing a great deal in the NE I'm afraid.

Anyway nice to have you back. You gonna get another C70 I guess? Mines running 305 Bhp with a bit more to come I hope. Good to have you here.


Thats a good overview especially the troll raid i mean e-raid from other forums...:biggrin:

You forgot Peter at Charwood Volvo :wallbash: near gatwick

[After_Shock]

ps - Out of the 4 custom remaps I have had - I found that the ATM map is the best. I managed the most efficient force out of the 19T - getting over 300bhp for only 1 Bar boost.

Cheers for the detailed replies as always wobbly.

Im looking to get a second car to play around with a C70 T5 is on the list, I know them well only downside they are a bit older than what id ideally want but will see what happens if the right car crops up. Want something else as I wont use the Monaro in the wet/bad weather so its limiting my use of it alot, plus something else would stop me pouring yet more cash into that car as its getting a bit daft now.

I would be looking for a custom map not a generic one, wheres the best place to look?

[leet5r]

Duck & Cover!!! Expecting an E-raid from T5D5

In no particular order

Chad - now deals RICA as one of many resellers & has a garage I believe in the West Mids
Turbo-Tuner - aka Adam Webber formally of HLM Chiptuning (which is now just HLM) is doing P&P USB style DIY mapping amongst other things, though this is just purely on ECU side of things
RT Mechanics are further south - doing all kinds of things - also RICA reseller IIRC.
HLM - is still run by Hamish and have a number of good offerings including ATM (Swedish based tuner)
SW Autos (in Kent) - geordies/macams will not be understood ;) - I have not heard so much about Stuart doing a great deal with Volvo's recently - but given your location - I guess that is not so important?

Not really heard of anyone doing a great deal in the NE I'm afraid.

Anyway nice to have you back. You gonna get another C70 I guess? Mines running 305 Bhp with a bit more to come I hope. Good to have you here.

nowt wrong with mackems like

[PAVLIE]

[QUOTE=RT MECHANICS;347517]Thats a good overview especially the troll raid i mean e-raid from other forums...:biggrin:

:sheep:

[Santa]

Duck & Cover!!! Expecting an E-raid from T5D5

In no particular order


I had to laugh.....well covered mate :-)

[T5frankie]

Without a doubt, if you are going to go down this route, then look for a 2.4 T5 unit from the S60/V70 2005 onwards models. A few people have changed their S60R engines for this unit, all the best bits from the R engine with MUCH better reliability, will produce the same power too.

Lots of these engines around as fitted to the Police spec T5's from that era.

thats funny cos the guy in the volvo scrapyard said that the 2.4.s were crap and much less reliable than the 2.3

[Santa]

thats funny cos the guy in the volvo scrapyard said that the 2.4.s were crap and much less reliable than the 2.3

But the 2.4's are more reliable than the 2.5's (I think) and therefore makes for the best compromise.

[sconeman]

OP just some thoughts to ponder. We've been talking about this alot in the states. Due to some recent swaps of newer engines into older platforms. There was a notable one in Sweden with and 03 S60 block into and early S70 putting down over 500NM with a GT3071 and supporting mods.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9zCsXz1cfo

Yes the 05+ R engines are the best choice but the 02+ engines are an excellent choice too. I'm putting an 02 S60T5 engine in my 95 855 in about a month along with and M56, 18t, rmani, turbotuner and other mods.

There's only a couple things you need to do to do this swap: lock the VVT hubs, machine the head slightly to accept a cap and rotor, swap over all your accessories, and get a tune are the primary things.

As I'm expecting this swap to become more common in the near future I'm planning to add some sort of hub locking mechanism to my product lineup next year after the swap.

Kristian

[After_Shock]

Thanks for the above reply, I didnt think it would be a major job to do.

Is the gearbox a direct bolt on?

[sconeman]

Thanks for the above reply, I didnt think it would be a major job to do.

Is the gearbox a direct bolt on?

yes, as far as I know. You're entire (I'm presuming M56) should swap right on

[Hunter]

... the reason why they crack is because of too much heat inside the pistons bores. but if you use a big enough turbo to keep the intake charges cooler and a custom intercooler no probs

The original engine in my S60R suffered from a cracked cylinder liner at 52k miles. I replaced the engine with another S60R one which had done 19k miles. I've now done another 14k miles without a problem, but I am interested in your comment that the cracked liners can be avoided by fitting a big(ger) turbo and a custom intercooler. Do you have any recommendations for these?

Thanks,
Brian

[smithy]

The original engine in my S60R suffered from a cracked cylinder liner at 52k miles. I replaced the engine with another S60R one which had done 19k miles. I've now done another 14k miles without a problem, but I am interested in your comment that the cracked liners can be avoided by fitting a big(ger) turbo and a custom intercooler. Do you have any recommendations for these?

Thanks,
Brian

they crack the liners due to too much heat in the cylinders but if you use a bigger turbo and custom intercooler should keep the cylinders coolers .i had a 2435 with s60r conrods and pistons fitted useing a t35 hybrid turbo with no probs at all and large custon intercooler too

[Wobbly Dave]

I have had 4 custom remaps for my C70 & out of the lot the most recent with ATM has been the most successful in terms of effecient power delivery - but as it is not entirely finished yet. Still I am makeing over 300 with just 1.0 bar boost.

The same power results were achieved with Adam's previous remap but using 1.22 bar. I am hopeful that once the map is completed we will be able to turn in 320 ish??

ATM are based in Sweden - so as you can imagine getting their guy over here to finish off has been a slow process.

[Wobbly Dave]

I have found a beautiful C70 - fully speced coupe I found on the trader - 52 plate with only 58K on the clock - GT spec. Great starting point for tuning?? ME7 engine.

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201046373194061/sort/priceasc/usedcars/transmission/manual/price-to/5000/maximum-mileage/up_to_60000_miles/model/c70/make/volvo/postcode/tf35ax/keywords/t5/radius/1500/page/1?logcode=p

[RT MECHANICS]

The original engine in my S60R suffered from a cracked cylinder liner at 52k miles. I replaced the engine with another S60R one which had done 19k miles. I've now done another 14k miles without a problem, but I am interested in your comment that the cracked liners can be avoided by fitting a big(ger) turbo and a custom intercooler. Do you have any recommendations for these?

Thanks,
Brian

Hi Brian

Was your car standard when it split a liner ?

[Hunter]

Hi Brian

Was your car standard when it split a liner ?

No, it's running some kind of map, never managed to find out which, as it's running 1.35bar.

Still running with the same map on the replacement engine so I guess it's just a matter of time ...

I still have the original engine and considering fitting Darton liners if I can find someone in the UK to supply these. No rush (yet ;) ) so I've not been looking but I'd be seriously tempted if a recommendation was made :)

[RT MECHANICS]

No, it's running some kind of map, never managed to find out which, as it's running 1.35bar.

Still running with the same map on the replacement engine so I guess it's just a matter of time ...

I still have the original engine and considering fitting Darton liners if I can find someone in the UK to supply these. No rush (yet ;) ) so I've not been looking but I'd be seriously tempted if a recommendation was made :)

If i was you i would get the map off the car asap any Volvo dealer or a indy with vida would be able to do it i have never seen a standard V70R/S60R or a RICA tuned car split a liner but have seen and heard of a very worrying amount of another brand.....

As for the liners dartons are very good but the cost of machining the block and fitting the liners is high for a good job :wiggle:

Good luck

[Hunter]

If i was you i would get the map off the car asap any Volvo dealer or a indy with vida would be able to do it i have never seen a standard V70R/S60R or a RICA tuned car split a liner but have seen and heard of a very worrying amount of another brand.....

As for the liners dartons are very good but the cost of machining the block and fitting the liners is high for a good job :wiggle:

Good luck

Yep, I hear what you're saying but part of the joy of running this S60R is knowing that it's quicker than pretty much anything else on the road. I've tracked it and it's fun being quicker than Z4Ms, M3s, Carreras, Maseratis, Astons, Ferraris, (some) Scoobs, etc. Going back to standard would make it ordinary. I don't mind spending money on it. The replacement engine cost me around £2k fitted and I still have most of the original engine left. If I spent another £2k fixing the old one and having Darton liners fitted, it would still be reasonably cheap motoring. It's not costing much in depreciation so the cost of making it good is still less than buying something else that would make me smile as much :)

[RT MECHANICS]

Yep, I hear what you're saying but part of the joy of running this S60R is knowing that it's quicker than pretty much anything else on the road. I've tracked it and it's fun being quicker than Z4Ms, M3s, Carreras, Maseratis, Astons, Ferraris, (some) Scoobs, etc. Going back to standard would make it ordinary. I don't mind spending money on it. The replacement engine cost me around £2k fitted and I still have most of the original engine left. If I spent another £2k fixing the old one and having Darton liners fitted, it would still be reasonably cheap motoring. It's not costing much in depreciation so the cost of making it good is still less than buying something else that would make me smile as much :)


I think your a very brave man this is what you need along with a good quality tune :

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j152/500bhpvolvo/VARIOUS%20VOLVO%20PICS/sleevedblock.jpg

[jay30h]

could you rebuild the old engine using a block from a 2.5 LT B5254T2 engine? (210bhp) im not sure if there are any diffrences in the block but they are both 83 X 93.2 bore/stroke and the same cylinder displacement

[Hunter]

I think your a very brave man this is what you need along with a good quality tune :

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j152/500bhpvolvo/VARIOUS%20VOLVO%20PICS/sleevedblock.jpg

Do you know of anyone in the UK who can supply Darton liners? Fit them too, if they're experienced. I have access to an excellent engineer who can do the work, but happy to go with a personal recommendation.

Thanks :)

[Hunter]

could you rebuild the old engine using a block from a 2.5 LT B5254T2 engine? (210bhp) im not sure if there are any diffrences in the block but they are both 83 X 93.2 bore/stroke and the same cylinder displacement

Mmm, if it's the same bore, I expect I could have the same problem running higher power ...

[jay30h]

My last post wasn’t very clear what I meant to say is that S60R engines are rare as rocking horse and demand a high premium second hand
The b5254t2 engine is more common and probably a lot cheaper second hand .
Out of curiosity is it financially viable or even possible to use the R engine internals/cylinder head and the block from the B5254t2 lpt engine to build a replacement R engine.

[jardon]

GazT4R and Pyaap (Gary and Ashok) have swapped 2.5 R engines for the 2.4 so may be worth asking how they got on. Their cars are R's though so probably not quite the same degree of change involved as you plan. They both make more power out of the 2.4 than the 2.5 for the reasons outlined. I would talk to a software supplier before committing to a motor that isn't compatible with your ecu. MTE have developed a custom map for the Stock 2.4 engine (FMIC, Aquamist and DP/Exhaust) that Ashok dyno'd at 350+bhp back in the summer. The 2.5 engines are a weak link in the Volvo line up and fail in their Ford cousins too. It is misleading to point fingers of blame at any of the tuners who supply software for the late model R engines as the liner failures happen to owners of vehicles with stock maps.

[After_Shock]

I have found a beautiful C70 - fully speced coupe I found on the trader - 52 plate with only 58K on the clock - GT spec. Great starting point for tuning?? ME7 engine.

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201046373194061/sort/priceasc/usedcars/transmission/manual/price-to/5000/maximum-mileage/up_to_60000_miles/model/c70/make/volvo/postcode/tf35ax/keywords/t5/radius/1500/page/1?logcode=p

Cheers for the link Dave, spotted that one recently, bit rich price wise certainly trying to command a premium for the low miles, but hey who wouldnt!

Got an Omega im going to get shot of first then going to have a look about, just spent more than that cars up at on bits for the Monaro hence would like something else to play about with to stop the spending on that.