Panel Filter vs Cone

[Haizum74]

I have been pondering on the pros and cons of both as I was reading about the K+N Panel filters not actually 'filtering' and also the Cone Filters with their sucking in hot air and got to wondering what the pros and cons actually are in relation to performance.

I remember sticking a K+N panel into an old Rover I had and that had trouble starting for the first few times

[massivewangers]

I would say, that in most applications, the standard panel filter is pretty sufficient really, especially on an aspirated car.

However, in a turbo application, as the air will be compressed before entering the engine, it's temperature will increase anyway (and hopefully decrease again when passing through the intercooler) so the detrimental effects of hot air induction from the engine bay will be minimal if any, so a cone filte wouldn't have any negative effect from that point of view.

It's obviously popular as well, as it can give more sound effects from the turbo, especially with the recirc. mod carried out.

There is of course some debate on the filtration quality offered by aftermarket air filters, but that's a whole other topic!

[T5frankie]

an induction kit will suck hot air from the engine unless there is a heat shield causing heatsoak, thus reducing power, engines like cold air through the air filter for more power. I used to have a renault 5 gt turbo that pulled really hard from cold but as soon as the engine was hot you noticeably feel the lack of power due to the heat in the engine bay. i use one mainly for the sound effects it produces from the turbo lol

[LiamT4]

I can give you a 1st hand account of how much better a cone filter is over the standard box and paper filter.
When a few of us were at santapod last, V70ETS had done quite a few runs that day (855t5, virtually standard apart from an mbc) and his fastest run was a 15.4.
Then he (well smithy and jamest5r) fitted a cone filter that james had going spare.
On his next run, he ran a 15.1! I'd say thats proof of the benefits of a cone over the standard setup.

[p fandango]

my fastest quarter mile time was done with an open cone filter

[The Flying Moose]

I can give you a 1st hand account of how much better a cone filter is over the standard box and paper filter.
When a few of us were at santapod last, V70ETS had done quite a few runs that day (855t5, virtually standard apart from an mbc) and his fastest run was a 15.4.
Then he (well smithy and jamest5r) fitted a cone filter that james had going spare.
On his next run, he ran a 15.1! I'd say thats proof of the benefits of a cone over the standard setup.

I can confirm this.... lol

Made a huge difference although I think some was psycological as I was against jamest5r and I wanted to try real hard to beat him!!!

I would say go with what feels right. At the end of the day you can modify the cone filter to exclude as much hot air as possible or use a panel filter but you wont be pushing as much air through the system.

Its a difficult call mate ;)

[T4_Al]

A cone filter can make the turbo spool up a 300-400 rpm earlier.

[Haizum74]

Hmm a lot of forums etc seem to sway towards panel rather than cone.

[Santa]

I use a small cone filter as well

http://www.richs.me.uk/gallery2/index.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=21857&g2_serialNumber=2

[Haizum74]

I would say go with what feels right.

Its a difficult call mate ;)

Yeh I actually need to get a Volvo first lol, but hey no harm in asking, always good to get ideas form folk

[LiamT4]

Hmm a lot of forums etc seem to sway towards panel rather than cone.

You will find that. Its all about the theory of cold air being more denser and colder air gives you more power (which is totally correct). BUT in my opinion the fact that a good cone filter can flow much more air cancels out the fact that its pulling in warmer air.

I have a pipercross panelfilter in my s70r (also had 1 in my t4 before i put a bmc cda) and think that it very good, perfectly fine for lightly modded cars.
But i would say when modding it further you would be best with a cone filter, which can have heat sheilds or completly enclosed cones such as the bmc cda, pipercross venom and simota intake systems.

But you will need a car 1st to make any of this work! lol

[massivewangers]

The thing is, as I said before, for a turbocharged application, the effects of any heat soak into the filter will be far reduced, as the air is being compressed by the turbo (heated up) and then flowing through the intercooler (cooled down), so the ambient temps in the engine bay will have limited effect.

In an aspirated engine however, as there is no turbo/intercooler to effect things, the air temperature in the engine bay will dictate the temperature of the air being drawn into the engine if you use a cone filter.

With an aspirated engine I would generally choose an air box for performance reasons. A lot of competition vehicles still retain an air box of some type, or at least a method of ensuring the intake air temp is as low as possible. Obviously having an open cone make a much more pleasing sound, so if you do fit one, just ensure it is shielded as much as possible and has a good supply of cold air from outside the engine bay.

Adding air ducting and cold air feeds will not have any effect of forcing air into the engine, but will ensure the air is as low a temp as possible, which is obviously beneficial, as stated above.

[p fandango]

But i would say when modding it further you would be best with a cone filter, which can have heat sheilds or completly enclosed cones such as the bmc cda, pipercross venom and simota intake systems.
BT was the genuie pig for Pipercross & they gave me both a normal foam cone filter & a Viper kit, & there was no difference between the 2 which is why i've always stuck with open cone filters

[Haizum74]

But you will need a car 1st to make any of this work! lol

Yeh rub it in why dont ya lol

[LiamT4]

You looking for anything specific? what price range you looking?

[claymore]

I have monitored the temp at the airfilter on my car for quite a while, and engine heat soak is just a myth (unless your at a drag strip) within half a mile of driving the temp at the air filter is always down to ambient. the problem on the quarter mile strip is the waiting at the line, so you would get a huge amount of heat soak which you would not be able to overcome before the end of the run.

http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u258/claymore2k/P1659_15-04-10.jpg

[Haizum74]

You looking for anything specific? what price range you looking?

Well I am umming and arring over either a T5 or 850r, it all comes down to funds (as usual). If I can hold on until March I might be able to go for an 850r or something of that ilk or just go for a T5 this year. Really after something that hasnt been modded too much too. Again funds consider choices lol especially as the new missus is expensive to run.

Although I MIGHT go back to the 940.

[endo-t5]

buy the t5 and use the money you saved from not buying the r and tune the t5 and mod it to what you want it's what i'm doing

[gmain1967]

The thing is, as I said before, for a turbocharged application, the effects of any heat soak into the filter will be far reduced, as the air is being compressed by the turbo (heated up) and then flowing through the intercooler (cooled down), so the ambient temps in the engine bay will have limited effect.

In an aspirated engine however, as there is no turbo/intercooler to effect things, the air temperature in the engine bay will dictate the temperature of the air being drawn into the engine if you use a cone filter.

With an aspirated engine I would generally choose an air box for performance reasons. A lot of competition vehicles still retain an air box of some type, or at least a method of ensuring the intake air temp is as low as possible. Obviously having an open cone make a much more pleasing sound, so if you do fit one, just ensure it is shielded as much as possible and has a good supply of cold air from outside the engine bay.

Adding air ducting and cold air feeds will not have any effect of forcing air into the engine, but will ensure the air is as low a temp as possible, which is obviously beneficial, as stated above.

I second massivewangers (at the danger of a euphanism....!)

A cone filter with it's cylindrical shape has a far greater surface area than a panel. More air is better, assuming the afr is correct.

On the turbo cars, the IC has far more impact than any issues related to heat from the engine/exhaust.

Redline magazine just did a feature on fitting an FMIC to a Subaru Impreza STI. The bigger intercooler yielded an extra 15bhp, with no other mods, solely because it was more efficient, and the forced air was cooler/denser.

Much has been written about air feeds, rightly or wrongly. Bottom line is that the best which can be achieved, is an air intake that is mounted at the front of the car, and has the least obstructive path to the filter, and into the turbo. As that air is moving (when the car is being driven at any rate), the air is not being drawn from inside the engine bay, and will be slightly colder because of that.

Other features such as additional engine bay cooling/vents/removing sound deadening from the bonnet etc, will all help matters as well.

Personally, unless you fabricate a custom airbox, then a panel filter will always be limited by the original airfeed. The T5 isn't too bad with a front facing intake, but a T4 as an example, has the feed hidden behind the passenger lights, and through the innerwing - hardly ideal. That said, it is supposed to be OK for power up to "around 300bhp (not my figure).

Personally, I prefer a cone filter every time and it is on the "to do" list for the T5.....! And you do get a pleasing sound from them too - lol

[p fandango]

don't forget Subaru's have a poor design top-mount intercooler as standard, so changing to a FMIC will have more effect as its now in the air flow which is the original idea of an air-air intercooler