wont start, headscratcher!!

[pigfight]

hi folks,
my 1996 manual 850r suddenly cut out on me last wk, checked all obvious stuff but still wouldnt start (turns over real healthy but wont fire up) so had to get towed to a local (volvo trained) mechanic.
so far he's changed/checked: plugs, leads, dizzy, rotor arm, coil pack, cam sensor, crank shaft sensor all to no avail, theirs definately fuel going through cus you can feel the pressure of it in the rail pipe when the ignition is turned on. he's also ran the diagnostics several times with no codes showing, so he suggested it could be the ecu, so today i managed to borrow one from a friends (working) 1996 manual 850r and still wont fire up.
so the car is still sat at the garage waiting for the mechanic to do some more digging.
would any of you guys have any clue what the problem could be? or at least what to check next? as just the labour time adding up is gonna kill me!!
as always, all replies and help very gratefully recieved.
cheers.
ps fuel and ignition relays are both just a few mnths old.

[nobananas]

Check under the radiator top panel, there is a relay on the right hand side, the wiring going into this relay often rots and when it does it kills the spark by (amongst other things) killing the feed to the cam sensor but the coil still has power and the pump still runs. Has left me stranded on holiday scratching my head for a couple of days that one !

[pigfight]

thanks nobananas,
i'l call him 1st thing to let him know, fingers crossed it really is that simple.
kind regards.

[RT MECHANICS]

As NB says check the relay but the best thing to do is see if fuel is actually getting to the spark plugs (the relay mentioned is the fuel injector pulse relay i have seen two cars over the years fail with wiring)

The most common fail i have seen in recent years on the 850 is the fuel pump.

If you have a good spark and fuel on the plugs it should go..

Good luck

[pigfight]

thanks rt, will also check on that 1st thing.
really appreciate the input guys, thankyou.

[t5 stealth]

as rt says,check to see if fuel is actualy getting to the rail,there is a tyre valve on the rail,just push the valve inset to see if pressure is great as fuel will spurt out under pressure,if it just drips then you got no fuel getting up to engine,
poss pump relay,or pump......but as rt says....if its got spark/fuel it should go lol.
also another thought to check...the key is coded,if thats not picking up a signal it will stop car starting...
have you tried the spare key ?

[pigfight]

thanks t5, the car only came with 1 key when i bought it unfortunately!
hopefully, the fault lies with what you guys have already mentioned.
is there a way of testing the key signal without having to go to a 'main stealer'?

[Alan M]

It could be a faulty ignition barrell also. Try wiggling the keys in the ignition on starting to see if that casues anything to happen. The barrell problem does usually show up some dash lights when it is on its way out.

[pigfight]

cheers alan, im almost certain its fine, but will defo mention to the mechanic, thankyou.

[orse]

Just an avenue to check but i have heard of the car not starting if the earth from the coil is not earthing properly.The one that bolts to the inner wing.If this is lengthened by 6 inches it can bolt straight to the negative of the battery for a definate good earth.Just an xtra option hope this helps

[simonulf]

Hi . . I had what sounds like exactly the same problem and although we thought fuel was coming through if it s not the right pressure the car won t start . . a new fuel pump sorted the problem after hours of heart-ache ! Good luck.

[pigfight]

well, after exhausting every avenue and all ok, ie: all sensors and fuses, good earth all round, sparks, leads, coil pack, dizzy, rotor, injectors, fuel pump, fuel filter etc etc!!! ive bit the bullet and booked it in with volvo on tuesday for two new keys and programming....£200!!!! FFS!!!! but cant see what else i can do now after nearly 6 wks off the road. at least i know the ecu is good as i plugged it into a friends car today and it fired first time.
fingers crossed it sorts it and i can post some good news on tuesday.

[JelT5]

Blimey! 6 weeks and not sorted- sounds like it's turned into a bloody expensive problem as well. Feel for you mate.
Hope the key programming works out well.

[RT MECHANICS]

well, after exhausting every avenue and all ok, ie: all sensors and fuses, good earth all round, sparks, leads, coil pack, dizzy, rotor, injectors, fuel pump, fuel filter etc etc!!! ive bit the bullet and booked it in with volvo on tuesday for two new keys and programming....£200!!!! FFS!!!! but cant see what else i can do now after nearly 6 wks off the road. at least i know the ecu is good as i plugged it into a friends car today and it fired first time.
fingers crossed it sorts it and i can post some good news on tuesday.

Oh dear sorry its still not sorted :( did you check that fuel is actually getting to the spark plugs ?

Also if you turn the ignition on does the CIS valve (under the throttle body cover hum ) ???

Russ

[pigfight]

hi russ
yes and yes, had everything scrutinised by 2 (volvo specialist) mechanics and an auto electrician, plus had it plugged into various diagnostics several times!!
fingers crossed...... its the keys.... oh, how im praying its the keys ha ha.
if it still fails, then frankly, im completely stumped, and £200!!! out of pocket.
ah well, will know one way or another by tuesday afternoon.
god only knows how these volvo parts staff sleep at night!!

[pigfight]

hi all,
well, after my car being at the main steal.... i mean dealers since tuesday!! they phoned me this afternoon to inform me that they are non the wiser either!!!
(theres £200 i'll never see again!)
the only direction they can point me in is that "its probably electrical"! and theres no way i can afford there £90 an hr labour to test and strip it all with no guarantee that its the problem.
im thinking i may have to cut my losses and look for something else, id love to get another 850r manual and transfer all the good stuff off mine, but the only ones available are all hundreds of miles away down south.
ahh well, got some serious thinking to do.
thanks to all of you for helping/advising/looking etc.
cheers guys.

[smithy]

hi all,
well, after my car being at the main steal.... i mean dealers since tuesday!! they phoned me this afternoon to inform me that they are non the wiser either!!!
(theres £200 i'll never see again!)
the only direction they can point me in is that "its probably electrical"! and theres no way i can afford there £90 an hr labour to test and strip it all with no guarantee that its the problem.
im thinking i may have to cut my losses and look for something else, id love to get another 850r manual and transfer all the good stuff off mine, but the only ones available are all hundreds of miles away down south.
ahh well, got some serious thinking to do.
thanks to all of you for helping/advising/looking etc.
cheers guys.

were are you based mate

[pigfight]

hi smithy,
im in north staffs in the week and cheshire most weekends.

[Bob France]

This might sound daft but do our volvos' have a cut off valve.My truck does,and so does the wifes' fiesta,it would normally cut off if you have a clonk so I'm told, but, being electronic, could that be a place to look?

[smithy]

yes thats the on the front of the car its a fuel relay that stops working in an even of a crash mate but they do play up.where is the car based mate

[pigfight]

its in stoke at the mo, trying to sort getting it towed!!....again!!!
why you after knowing smithy if you dont mind me asking?

[Jamest5r]

Me and Smithy went through something similar with my car after an engine swop, went through EVERYTHING like you have for 2 weeks and just by luck in the end it turned out to be the plastic connector to the crank sensor......but not on the sensor side, i had to cut the plug off the loom side and change that, so no matter how many new crank sensor that were tried they would never work because it was the connecter on the loom side, worth a try after what you've been through.

[pigfight]

thats gotta be worth looking into, thanks james.

[pigfight]

just as an after thought though, surely that would have been checked!
2 mechanics, an auto sparky, and volvo themselves..... or am i being naive?

[smithy]

reason why i asked if you were close i would of come over and had a look for you mate thats all

[pigfight]

thats a really nice gesture smithy, and greatly appreciated.
thankyou. (im guessing your no where near though?)

[RT MECHANICS]

Any luck ??

[pigfight]

unfortunately russ......no!!
after the car being off the road for 2 mnths, and then volvo (holdcrofts in hanley, stoke on trent) kindly!! charging me £200.00 for a pair of keys that dont work (i will go out of my way NOT to use them in future, with my father, brother, brother-in-law all owning volvos, we must have spent a fortune in there over the years...it wont happen again), ive decided to cut my losses, and i refuse/cant afford to spend on it any more.
my dilema was, do i keep spending with no guarantee of a successfull outcome? (and then, if it still fails, not being able to afford anything else) or go for an awsome looking 97 manual fwd v70r with (almost) full service history... which i have done, and its fantastic.
so my plan is now to salvage all the best bits (mods) off the 854r and transfer them to the v70r, break it and offer the parts on the forums.
i appreciate your input, and everyone elses though russ,
thankyou