What next...? How to make a great R even better.

[Flatout Phil]

So I have had the manual R a year, and really, really pleased with it. It has the Rica, the K&N panel, the Jetex 2.5 cat-back, 302mm discs, IPD front and rear, RIP on the brink of fitting, Forge DV etc and increasingly sorted out with 94k on the clock and she looks sensational. So the question is, what next? I like the car as a road runner, but would like to beef her up a bit. Is this the point of movement into engine strengthening, a 19T and a three inch exhaust? Or some serious cylinder head work. It gets expensive from here on in - but informed thoughts very welcomed.
I had a good chat with Smithy who opines that going much over 300 bhp is a route of diminishing returns in terms of performance. Maybe I need to leave well alone. If you have ideas, let me know.

Phil.

[Crazy_C]

Stuff all that stuff, just add a skull gear knob and a foot print gas pedal!!! :D

[JelT5]

I think Smithy's right Phil, and it's true for most cars- more hp over a certain point starts to cost big bucks and reliability starts to become questionable...
plus, consider putting loads more power through a FWD car- it's going to be difficult to put it down on the tarmac; Russ has found that with The Peril- things break more easily. I think around the 300-330ish mark is about it, unless you have a load of cash you're prepared to throw at what will rapidly become a bottomless pit!

What you have to ask yourself is what do you want to use the car for?

My goal is to build a T5 that is my daily driver and can run a 13sec 1/4; that's not easy with our cars, because they're not that quick off a dig...they're fwd volvos! I could have bought that sort of performance off the shelf: a 90s M3, an Evo, Sti Scooby etc will run 13s all day long as standard and cost cost a lot less (possibly/ probably) than buying a load of performance parts for what is essentially a family car...(sorry guys, but it's true, despite the BTCC heritage).
Mine will never be the quickest car, but I enjoy it and that's what it's all about really: fun :) T5s, Rs and T5Rs are great cars but have their limitations.
I won't be going any further with mine, the 18T, d/pipe, 3" exhaust and map to suit will get me where I want to be...when its finally all working properly and in unison lol

Just my opinion, for what it's worth mate: if you want a really fast car, buy a really fast car in the first place!

No offence intended to anybody about our Volvos!

[Flatout Phil]

I think Smithy's right Phil, and it's true for most cars- more hp over a certain point starts to cost big bucks and reliability starts to become questionable...
plus, consider putting loads more power through a FWD car- it's going to be difficult to put it down on the tarmac; Russ has found that with The Peril- things break more easily. I think around the 300-330ish mark is about it, unless you have a load of cash you're prepared to throw at what will rapidly become a bottomless pit!

What you have to ask yourself is what do you want to use the car for?

My goal is to build a T5 that is my daily driver and can run a 13sec 1/4; that's not easy with our cars, because they're not that quick off a dig...they're fwd volvos! I could have bought that sort of performance off the shelf: a 90s M3, an Evo, Sti Scooby etc will run 13s all day long as standard and cost cost a lot less (possibly/ probably) than buying a load of performance parts for what is essentially a family car...(sorry guys, but it's true, despite the BTCC heritage).
Mine will never be the quickest car, but I enjoy it and that's what it's all about really: fun :) T5s, Rs and T5Rs are great cars but have their limitations.
I won't be going any further with mine, the 18T, d/pipe, 3" exhaust and map to suit will get me where I want to be...when its finally all working properly and in unison lol

Just my opinion, for what it's worth mate: if you want a really fast car, buy a really fast car in the first place!

No offence intended to anybody about our Volvos!

I think this is a really useful perspective. Of course you are right about the family car thing - exactly why I have it. I'm not sure I want to go too mad on modifications, but it sounds as if the last easy steps are to go for the 18/19T and a 3 inch pipe (with another remap and perhaps an injector upgrade (although I have not a clue what injectors are on there). I know this sounds like a noob question, but is it just the colour of the housing?
My concern is about over-powering the engine - I have only put a hole through one engine in my time, but that was enough (although very spectacular). Obviously the wear rate is already increased, but the stress levels have been too. I want to keep any power increases within a safe tolerance limit for the rods - which I expect are the weakest components in the set-up.
Philosphically, I am concerned that I am arriving at a point where the car is substantially complete - and that feels like I might be heading for boredom. In a way it is a life-metaphor, we thrive on looking forward to becoming better in some way or another. And without that, tedium sets in. Perhaps I need to focus on the quarter mile, it gives a challenge of sorts - which I need.

The thing this county needs is a drag strip. I suppose there is North Weald in Essex, but there is, as far as I know, nothing of the sort in Kent. I know it sounds a bit wet, but slogging up to the Midlands is plain tedious with the M25/M1 to endure.

Keep the thougts and ideas coming though.

[p fandango]

yeh the injectors are denoted by the colour of the plastic body

if your thinking of changing the turbo i would also look at putting a better exhaust manifold on at the same time, either ME7 or S60R if the budget can stretch. From fitting the 19t onto BT i found the lag was alot worse than i was expecting, until i fitted the 76mm RIP kit & 960 throttle body so would look at them at the same time. When first using it i was that disappointed i was contemplating going back to a 15g, now with the extra's it spools up possibly even quicker but the boost just keeps coming until the redline

[Flatout Phil]

Stuff all that stuff, just add a skull gear knob and a foot print gas pedal!!! :D

I admit it would be good to have a better knob. Nyuk nyuk.

How about a chain steering wheel? It is 14 carat gold-plated.

[Flatout Phil]

yeh the injectors are denoted by the colour of the plastic body

if your thinking of changing the turbo i would also look at putting a better exhaust manifold on at the same time, either ME7 or S60R if the budget can stretch. From fitting the 19t onto BT i found the lag was alot worse than i was expecting, until i fitted the 76mm RIP kit & 960 throttle body so would look at them at the same time. When first using it i was that disappointed i was contemplating going back to a 15g, now with the extra's it spools up possibly even quicker but the boost just keeps coming until the redline

I hope you are going to write a manual on all this one day soon Duane. Thanks for this.

[p fandango]

How about a chain steering wheel? It is 14 carat gold-plated.
& probably worth more than the car lol, not convinced it'll add much BHP either tbh mate

[p fandango]

I hope you are going to write a manual on all this one day soon Duane. Thanks for this.
i'm bore everyone too much lol, feel free to PM me if theirs anything you want to know mate

edit, bit more info to bore you lol

Orange 315cc
White 350cc
Blue 395cc
Green 465cc

[JelT5]

I think this is a really useful perspective. Of course you are right about the family car thing - exactly why I have it. I'm not sure I want to go too mad on modifications, but it sounds as if the last easy steps are to go for the 18/19T and a 3 inch pipe (with another remap and perhaps an injector upgrade (although I have not a clue what injectors are on there). I know this sounds like a noob question, but is it just the colour of the housing?

Thanks Phil, I try my best mate.
I'm running the standard orange injectors which work just fine with the custom map. If I melt a piston then the oranges weren't correct! However the AFRs are actually a bit rich where the car should be making peak power- as you know it's currently under boost investigation!
I would assume you have white injectors with the 16T- they may well prove to be enough for any upgrades you plan.


My concern is about over-powering the engine - I have only put a hole through one engine in my time, but that was enough (although very spectacular). Obviously the wear rate is already increased, but the stress levels have been too. I want to keep any power increases within a safe tolerance limit for the rods - which I expect are the weakest components in the set-up.

So long as the map doesn't give too much torque low down the rods should be ok mate.


Philosphically, I am concerned that I am arriving at a point where the car is substantially complete - and that feels like I might be heading for boredom. In a way it is a life-metaphor, we thrive on looking forward to becoming better in some way or another. And without that, tedium sets in. Perhaps I need to focus on the quarter mile, it gives a challenge of sorts - which I need.
The thing this county needs is a drag strip. I suppose there is North Weald in Essex, but there is, as far as I know, nothing of the sort in Kent. I know it sounds a bit wet, but slogging up to the Midlands is plain tedious with the M25/M1 to endure.

I know what you mean. When it's done, just enjoy it for what it is- you've got plenty of spare wheels and tyres for track days and Brands isn't too far away from you :)
If you don't fancy the M25, just pop over the channel (lol) and come to Bitburg some time- mini holiday mate. It's a great weekend of drag racing for minimal outlay. I usually average 30+ runs over the weekend not counting the bracket racing on Sunday afternoon, which is a serious challenge in itself.
The Ring is only just up the road too :D

Happy days

[JelT5]

i'm bore everyone too much lol, feel free to PM me if theirs anything you want to know mate

edit, bit more info to bore you lol

Orange 315cc
White 350cc
Blue 395cc
Green 465cc

Not boring mate; you're a font of knowledge with T5s and have helped me out with all sorts of stuff no end. BTW my 76mm ebay DIY RIP kit arrived yesterday and will be going on tomorrow :D
Hopefully that'll sort the boost problem.

[danny-R]

Thanks Phil, I try my best mate.
I'm running the standard orange injectors which work just fine with the custom map.

So you got them bits fitted jel? have you had it rolling roaded just out of interest?

[danny-R]

:ashamed: phil, Next you should sell it to me

[JelT5]

So you got them bits fitted jel? have you had it rolling roaded just out of interest?

I have mate...it was a bit disappointing tbh; not your fault though!
Only making 270hp/424Nm @ 3500rpm when it should really be making a lot more at around 5000rpm.
There's a boost problem in a couple of places namely just after 3500rpm and 4200rpm, which I'm investigating at the mo. Not sure what's causing it. Not the BCS/actuator/turbo; so could be intercooler system or HT leads/ coil.

It'll get sorted. Dyno sheet is here:
post #205 (http://www.vpcuk.org/forums/showthread.php?p=317797#post317797)

I used my JT 3" exhaust in the end as the zorst you sent was 2.5" going to 2". Not a prob, swapped it over for the 3" JT :D

[danny-R]

That power is very similar to what mine made, if you pm me your email i can show the printout, Bit of a shame really i was dying for 300bhp.
Hope you get it sorted mate,

[danny-R]

I used my JT 3" exhaust in the end as the zorst you sent was 2.5" going to 2". Not a prob, swapped it over for the 3" JT :D


Really? I paid for a 2 and half inch system from turbo back, I never even thought to check it, looks like i'v been had (again lol) like the me7 manifold which i later found out was no different lol.
I still have receipt here saying 2and half inch, I will pm you and Give Phil his thread back.

[p fandango]

Not boring mate; you're a font of knowledge with T5s and have helped me out with all sorts of stuff no end. BTW my 76mm ebay DIY RIP kit arrived yesterday and will be going on tomorrow :D
Hopefully that'll sort the boost problem.
lol cheers mate. One question tho mate, what you doing messing about on here when you've got bits to fit (get your arse out there & get it fitted TODAY lol). Keep us posted how it goes & if it sorts your problem out, fingers crossed it will mate

[Flatout Phil]

:ashamed: phil, Next you should sell it to me

Oh what sweet sorrow parting from the beast would be.

[JelT5]

lol cheers mate. One question tho mate, what you doing messing about on here when you've got bits to fit (get your arse out there & get it fitted TODAY lol). Keep us posted how it goes & if it sorts your problem out, fingers crossed it will mate

Going to do it this avo guv, promise ;)
had to wait for garage space as I refuse to work on the street (oooer fnaarr) nowadays mate especially as it's just topped 35C in the shade...a trifle warm!

[p fandango]

Going to do it this avo guv, promise ;)
had to wait for garage space as I refuse to work on the street (oooer fnaarr) nowadays mate especially as it's just topped 35C in the shade...a trifle warm!
good glad to hear it mate, i can't wait to see what to get your opinion on the difference. Your still running the standard throttle body aren't you?

it is a bit warm, i'm off with a cold at the minute so not daring to do much at all

[JelT5]

good glad to hear it mate, i can't wait to see what to get your opinion on the difference. Your still running the standard throttle body aren't you?

Still std TB on at the mo

i'm off with a cold at the minute so not daring to do much at all

other than lie in the sun? ;)

[p fandango]

other than lie in the sun? ;)
lol i wish, i'm boiling enough as it is. Just had a cold shower, all the windows open, fan on full & i'm still warm. I'm quite happy lying here with the netbook watching repeats on Dave lol

[smithy]

Oh what sweet sorrow parting from the beast would be.

if you want to go more on your car mate then here is a selection of ideas but put the rip kit on first you will see a big difference .s60r manifold/later 16t/3in downpipe/100 cell racecat.or 18/19t ,/s60r manifold/3in downpipe for 19t /100 cell racecat/custom remap on ether of these specs .i would up your injectors to me7 blues cheap and easy to get.a 960 tb will help spool up lower down the turbo range.anything from 280 to 300 whp with a custom map on these specs but i would not go anymore unless you want to spend bucks mate hope this helps .

[walter leever]

another thing you could opt for is a bigger intercooler,but you have to adjust your software too(don't know if it's possible with a rica remap.)

gr,walter

[S70T5Chris]

You could sell it and buy THIS (http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/1812702.htm) one

It belongs to a friend of mine, and has had some serious money thrown at it in the last six months, sounds like everything your after and more.

[LiamT4]

Similar thoughts that i have with my s70. Do i just do some more little mods i.e RIP kit, 960 TB, then the suspension and headlights or then do i carry on and get new turbo, injectors, manifold, full exhaust and the rest. Baring in mind i need my car daily so it must stay relible. Difficult, i keep changing my mind. lol

[Flatout Phil]

Similar thoughts that i have with my s70. Do i just do some more little mods i.e RIP kit, 960 TB, then the suspension and headlights or then do i carry on and get new turbo, injectors, manifold, full exhaust and the rest. Baring in mind i need my car daily so it must stay relible. Difficult, i keep changing my mind. lol

It isn't a bad idea to be honest. Price a tad high but a smashing looking twin of mine.

[smithy]

It isn't a bad idea to be honest. Price a tad high but a smashing looking twin of mine.

i would keep yours and just mildly mod your one mate

[siamblue]

Custom IC and WI, works well together.


Gary