Air cleaner-Intake

[chris21340]

Dear all,

I have to admit this is an area that I have little knowledge of before I start. The question is this. If I want to improve the airflow over the standard T5 aircleaner box which is the best way to go. I am dubious of these cone filter jobs stuck in the engine bay as surely they are pulling warm air into the engine. Am I correct in understanding that the cooler/denser the air the better for performance? Any advice or suggestions appreciated.

My car is a S60 T5 2001 with MTE remap.

Regards

Chris

[p fandango]

you are correct sir, the colder the air the better. As for improving a P2 intake tbh i've never really looked under the bonnet (D5 so why bother lol) but i wouldn't be put of so easily by cone filters. Yes on paper they will suck in warm air but once on the move its soon replaced by the cold moving air, i've lost count of the different systems i've had on the 850 T-5 & open cone has proved to be the fastest on the 1/4mile

[MC_Bob]

The standard design is often the best.. Sealed panel filter drawing from behind the grill. Perfect.

[chris21340]

At this point I agree. Although I see most people squeezing more performance seem to bin the standard set up?

[MC_Bob]

Maybe for sound?

Im relatively new to T5s, but Im just going by experience of my previous cars too. Im not one for changing the induction that Volvo designed. It might be flawed, it might not, I dont know.

Theres plenty of theory that can be thrown either or, just take everything with a pinch of salt. There plenty of B/S marketing too!

[LiamT4]

Personally, i think that the normal airbox with a panel filter is fine for lighlty modded cars, and you only really need to change it when you are getting into serious power. I did have an enclosed induction kit on my t4, but mainly for the noise!

[p fandango]

At this point I agree. Although I see most people squeezing more performance seem to bin the standard set up?
the standard intake pipe can easily be improved, as i say i've not looked at the P2 system but on 850's the bend before the turbo is quite bad, & the corrugated section does nothing to help the flow because of the added turbulence. Fitting a good design inline canistor filter can help reduce bends & reduce the times the air has to change direction if you don't want to go with a cone

[chris21340]

Thanks, looking for some ideas. Just spent a small mortgage doing the suspension, brake calipers and wheels. Air intake is next on my list. Then a 3 inch system with free flow cat. Finally MTE stage II remap from Don.

Chris

[LiamT4]

Thanks, looking for some ideas. Just spent a small mortgage doing the suspension, brake calipers and wheels. Air intake is next on my list. Then a 3 inch system with free flow cat. Finally MTE stage II remap from Don.

Chris

Sounds good. Any pics of your car?

[chris21340]

Will post some up shortly. Currently awaiting wheels! Which I hope will arrive tomorrow.
So far;
MTE remap.
IPD updated roll bars front and rear.
poly bushed front wish bones.
IPD rear drop links.
IPD turbo control valve.
19 inch 235 x 35 wheels with Continental Sport Contact 5's.
Ultra Racing engine strut brace.
Ultra racing braces front lower and rear upper and lower.
R front calipers.
IMIV iPod adapter.

Refitting my injectors today after Jim cleaned and checked them over.

Regards

chris.

[Chriscurzon]

A 3" tip would be a good way to go if you wanted more air flow i made mine my self made a massive diffrance the the air flow.

looks like this

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh110/chriscurzon/For%20Sale/DSCF1345.jpg


http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh110/chriscurzon/Volvo/DSCF1243.jpg

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh110/chriscurzon/Volvo/DSCF1245.jpg

[Wobbly Dave]

needs adequate sheilding to be effective.

I personally don't think the standard airbox is restrictive. Used in conjuction with a free flow panel filter (take your pick from ITG, K&N, PiperX).

I put the ITG short ram air in and it made no difference to the inlet manifold temp. I just like the noise.

[thebadger]

A 3" tip would be a good way to go if you wanted more air flow i made mine my self made a massive diffrance the the air flow.

Looks ace! I'd fancy making that as a project. Could you be so kind as to give me the diameters of the hose on each end?

Also, what did you do with the IAT sensor? I assume that's the big hole in the pipe. Did you have trouble getting the smaller hose fittings? (where did you source them & how did they describe them, they always pick an obscure description!)

Cheers for any info you can part with! :)

[Chriscurzon]

Looks ace! I'd fancy making that as a project. Could you be so kind as to give me the diameters of the hose on each end?

Also, what did you do with the IAT sensor? I assume that's the big hole in the pipe. Did you have trouble getting the smaller hose fittings? (where did you source them & how did they describe them, they always pick an obscure description!)

Cheers for any info you can part with! :)


I cant remember off top of my head as iv sold the tip and car now but ill see if i can find the info or receipt for you.

the big hole is for sensor i just drilled the hole in pipe then used dermal to make it wider till i could fit a grommet in there and just silicone it in make sure it was tight in.

The take of for the 2 hoses i got from merlin these are them

http://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/SAMCO-HOSE-&-KITS-Self-Sealing-Take-Off's/c16_2661/index.html

I was easy to do i did it all in couple of hours making it up and fitting it.

[thebadger]

Cheers dude, that's pretty much the stuff I'm needing.

I have a spare MAF somewhere, so I should be able to guage one end of the hose!

I'll need to look into what other wonders I could include! I wonder if you could fit a duck call.... :P

[chris21340]

Some Pics for Liam. Not sure about the wheels but they are at least well clear of the calipers and I dont need spacers any more. Have I just inadvertantly 'pimped' my ride?

Pic 1 is me having the injectors off for cleaning.
Pic 2 just shows the Ultra Racing bars fitted beneath.
Pic 3 'Have I just pimped my car???'
Pic 4 R calipers and discs also shows my Eibach springs and Bilstien B8 shockers.
Pic 5 Rear IPD uprated roll bar.
Pic 6 My car holding the driveway up.
Pic 7 Still really not sure about these wheels?

[mike 850]

what i always wanted to know is how a few degrees increase going through the filter (induction kit) effects the fact the turbo temperature effect. as in the temp is going to be drastically increased when it comes out the turbo so is an open filter really going to loose performance? just a question

[p fandango]

what i always wanted to know is how a few degrees increase going through the filter (induction kit) effects the fact the turbo temperature effect. as in the temp is going to be drastically increased when it comes out the turbo so is an open filter really going to loose performance? just a question
nope, as i say it certainly didn't affect my 1/4mile times & that was after being sat in the fire-up lane so the engine bay would of collected more heat. Once on the move the heat is soon dispelled & with a well placed cone enabled to suck in fresh colder air again. Even the standard airbox has the inlet next to the radiator which is going to give off alot of heat when sat at lights etc so no difference

i've fitted 2 temperature displays on BT so i can measure air temperatures, one is at the filter the other at the throttle body. Be interesting to see how much hotter the air is thats passed thru the turbo compared to the original air coming into the filter

[LiamT4]

what i always wanted to know is how a few degrees increase going through the filter (induction kit) effects the fact the turbo temperature effect. as in the temp is going to be drastically increased when it comes out the turbo so is an open filter really going to loose performance? just a question

Its more to do with the fact that cold air is denser than hot air (more o2), so you want the coldest air possible coming into the airfilter. Thats why on a cold day, cars (especially turbos)tend to feel a bit quicker than on a hot day. But, from my experience, i'v never actually noticed a difference between an open filter and an inclosed 1 and as pedro has said, once on the move its getting in cooler air anyway.

[Plodmonkey]

ive just put a piper cross panel filter in and left it at that am thinking of getting handy with the drill so it will give it the throaty sound and running a cold air feed pipe from the front of the car to were the holes are so i still get cold air but don't no if this will effect performance in anyway

[rocket ronny]

A 3" tip would be a good way to go if you wanted more air flow i made mine my self made a massive diffrance the the air flow.

looks like this

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh110/chriscurzon/For%20Sale/DSCF1345.jpg


http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh110/chriscurzon/Volvo/DSCF1243.jpg

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh110/chriscurzon/Volvo/DSCF1245.jpg

total waste of time, your bettter of with the standard system drawing ambient air rather than that using hot under bonnet air 2/10

[SKIDMARKS]

I bought the TIP from Chris but still not got to fitting it yet.
As for cold dense air my little black toy can scare the c**p outa me if taken out on a misty winters day, it is without filters, just a scoop straight into the carbs but high power in a light car you really notice the difference.

[p fandango]

total waste of time, your bettter of with the standard system drawing ambient air rather than that using hot under bonnet air 2/10
have you actually tried any of this? because as i said i have & the standard system is easily improved, & as said my best 1/4mile time was with an open cone

[MC_Bob]

have you actually tried any of this? because as i said i have & the standard system is easily improved, & as said my best 1/4mile time was with an open cone

I beat my 1/4 mile by half a second, because there was a tail wind on that day, doesnt mean much dude..

[p fandango]

I beat my 1/4 mile by half a second, because there was a tail wind on that day, doesnt mean much dude..
i agree its the same as everything & there will always be uncontrollable variances that will affect results, but i'm not talking of just over the one run here

[MC_Bob]

Im not either :)

[p fandango]

Im not either :)
i wasn't questioning what you said lol

[LiamT4]

Although the standard airbox will get in cooler air, an open cone filter will be getting in much more air, and when the car is moving it'll be getting in cooler air anyway. I think we all know how it should work in theory, but its not always that simple. From my experience with my bros s14 and a friends t4, changing to a cone filter made a noticeble (positive) difference. So it would seem that (in those cars at least), the theory was wrong.

[claymore]

I'v been monitoring the air temp at my cone filter, and within a mile of driving the air temp is down to ambient temp.

[p fandango]

I'v been monitoring the air temp at my cone filter, and within a mile of driving the air temp is down to ambient temp.
be interesting to measure temps inside the stand airbox, with the inlet being so close to the radiator. I wouldn't be surprised if when sat still (ie traffic lights) the air inside the airbox because of the inlet being so close to the radiator is not much better than that inside the engine bay anyway

[thebadger]

Indeed, a good channel of fresh air will sort it in a few seconds.

Cones will always get more air in to the pipe. Bigger pipe is a good idea too!

I'm wondering how much larger you could make the MAF housing without fudging its reading?

Sadly the turbo intake is not as big. :(

[MC_Bob]

The turbo doesnt flow enough air to warrant it.. Why would a cone flow more!? I think the panel filter is being misunderstood..

[p fandango]

Indeed, a good channel of fresh air will sort it in a few seconds.

Cones will always get more air in to the pipe. Bigger pipe is a good idea too!

I'm wondering how much larger you could make the MAF housing without fudging its reading?

Sadly the turbo intake is not as big. :(
the ecu needs quite a bit of the adaption before it will run with a 3" MAF on BT, with a fresh ecu it takes 4 or 5 attempts before the car will run & idle

i assume it throws a fault code as well, but i've took the bulb out (not interested as it can't lower the boost) so can't tell

[LiamT4]

On the standard airbox the amount of air coming in is limited by the size of the cold air feed, a cone filter does not have this limiting factor.

[MC_Bob]

On the standard airbox the amount of air coming in is limited by the size of the cold air feed, a cone filter does not have this limiting factor.

What I mean is.. How do you know it needs that size inlet? The turbo intake is only 2.25" iirc..

[thebadger]

Well you only need to breath through your nose, but if you're running or making any serious effort you'll be needing your mouth too.

Restrictions of your air pipe is the same in a car, it may need more air to suck. Any restriction will limit the performance over time.

Get some tape over your mouth & go for a jog. Let us know how you get on after 10mins..... ;)

[MC_Bob]

Last time I checked the turbo only had one inlet :lol: I see what you mean, any gain is a gain, but its all theory. Im not a biologist so cant explain that!


I think Volvo designed it properly, that is all, I dont have concrete evidence, just an opinion.

Having a 3" inlet before a 2.25" inlet under vacuum..

[LiamT4]

Last time I checked the turbo only had one inlet :lol: I see what you mean, any gain is a gain, but its all theory. Im not a biologist so cant explain that!


I think Volvo designed it properly, that is all, I dont have concrete evidence, just an opinion.

Having a 3" inlet before a 2.25" inlet under vacuum..

I too think that the original design is fine for standard and lightly modded cars, but when you start to do a lot more (as p fandango has) then the standard airbox will be too restrictive.

[p fandango]

What I mean is.. How do you know it needs that size inlet? The turbo intake is only 2.25" iirc..
i totally understand what you mean, but as an example when i uprated my RIP kit from 55mm to 76mm according to that theory it shouldn't of made a difference as it still had the 55mm restriction on the IC ports as well as on the turbo, but believe me the difference was amazing (i did fit a 960 throttle body as well, but again that shouldn't of changed anything because the air still had to go thru the same restrictions beforehand)

[p fandango]

it is without filters, just a scoop straight into the carbs but high power in a light car you really notice the difference.
i'm still thinking of running BT with no filter, i'm re-doing the intake again so see how it ends up lol

[JelT5]

have you actually tried any of this? because as i said i have & the standard system is easily improved, & as said my best 1/4mile time was with an open cone

My best 1/4 in the V70 was run with no filter/ airbox at all!

On the same day with BSR optiflow filter I did about 8-10 runs all around the 14.7/14.8 mark (mainly the latter)
With no filter a 14.63...wtf?!

This was in an auto so can't say my shifting miraculously improved and also, the weather didn't turn cooler etc. It was around 28C- so pretty damned hot and not the best ambient temps for a turbo'd car.

I'd be happy to hear any theories as to why the performance of a £120+ filter set up didn't do so well compared to running no filter at all on the drag strip. Cone filters IMO just sound better lol
Sorry Ped, I've yet to be convinced that any performance gains can be had other than on a very highly modded car.

Cut a hole in the bonnet and feed cold air straight in- best and cheapest solution by using a mini grinder!

:D :D :D :D :D

Think we had this discussion before I got involved with three pedals mate lol

[p fandango]

My best 1/4 in the V70 was run with no filter/ airbox at all!

On the same day with BSR optiflow filter I did about 8-10 runs all around the 14.7/14.8 mark (mainly the latter)
With no filter a 14.63...wtf?!

This was in an auto so can't say my shifting miraculously improved and also, the weather didn't turn cooler etc. It was around 28C- so pretty damned hot and not the best ambient temps for a turbo'd car.

I'd be happy to hear any theories as to why the performance of a £120+ filter set up didn't do so well compared to running no filter at all on the drag strip. Cone filters IMO just sound better lol
even the best/most expensive filter is going to be a restriction as it has to block particles to do its job


sorry Ped, I've yet to be convinced that any performance gains can be had other than on a very highly modded car.
if its going to help on a modified car its going to help on a standard car, yes it may not be as noticable but it will be an improvement


Cut a hole in the bonnet and feed cold air straight in- best and cheapest solution by using a mini grinder!

:D :D :D :D :D
just wait & see mate lol


Think we had this discussion before I got involved with three pedals mate lol
probably, but i've been to sleep since then lol

[LiamT4]

No matter how good the filter (be it panel/cone/enclosed) its always going to have some restriction as it has to go through a filter. Having no filter/airbox is going to be the least restrictive but also has the possibilty of something getting through and damaging something.

[thebadger]

The air intake pipe is a bit like the hose pipe argument.

The hose can be smaller, but that will increase the resistance through pressure.

The hose can be bigger, but the required pressure loss may reduce the flow.

Think of what happens when too much pressure goes out a hose pipe, versus too little through the same hose.

The turbo intake may only be 2.25" but the pressure/vacum produced is channeled trough that size of intake to improve the efficiency.

I don't doubt that Volvo would have made the system "inneficcient" however, there are always "lowest bidder" parts in every machine.

The fact that the hose onto the turbo is plastic has never given me huge confidence. The turbo gets very hot & I don't know of many plastics that don't either rot, go brittle or worse still, melt! I doubt that the hose will, but it probably will go brittle in time.

[Vikingxl]

Donkeyt5 had a 4" inlet in the front bumper and a 4" hose all the way through to the airbox not sure what he gained in the end though

[thebadger]

Dunno about that when it's only 3" on the Maf. I'd rather uprate the wole air intake back to the turbo. But that may be tricky.

I'm not sure about increasing the size of the Maf housing either.

Elevate (previously known as Evolve) do bonnet vents for the 60/70/80 series. (not a scoop, just a vent for the shoulder on the bonnet)

[p fandango]

Dunno about that when it's only 3" on the Maf. I'd rather uprate the wole air intake back to the turbo. But that may be tricky.
its not that bad, you can get all the required joints off the shelf in silicone, feed the PCV to a catch tank & you only need an inlet for the BCS then (on 850's anyway)


I'm not sure about increasing the size of the Maf housing either.
the ecu's on overly happy about it & needs some of its map adaption before it'll run, but does get used to it eventually


Elevate (previously known as Evolve) do bonnet vents for the 60/70/80 series. (not a scoop, just a vent for the shoulder on the bonnet)
i'm looking at using a 3" NACA vent

http://www.carbonmods.co.uk/images/products/medium/naca-50.jpg

[thebadger]

Sorry Pedro, I was refering to P2 bonnet vents, didn't mean to leave BT out.

http://www.elevatecars.com/elevate-v70-3rd-generation/exterior-styling/elevate-v70-hood-grille

I wouldn't reccomend the one on the drivers side unless you have real fears of overheating.