Loud tapping noise in my new T5 !!!!

[chrjen]

Just bought my wife a 1998 c70 2,3t5.

We have had 5 850 T5R and 850R´s so my knowledge about these cars and their "problems" are known to me - -including Hydraulic tappets making noise.
This is what has happened:
I got the car home by truck - and test drove it, driving very careful because of the slippery weather.
After 5 min drive, the tapping noise started, and continued...
The noise is following the rpm. and tapping like the hyd. tappets - just MUCH MUCH louder!!!! It is in the to of the engine and it scares me.

See and listen to this video:
http://s443.photobucket.com/albums/qq158/chrjen/?action=view&current=c70lyd.flv

The car is an absolute minter in untouched original state with a FSH by volvo.

Any ideas are much appriciated.

Kindest Chris

[Vikingxl]

Cant offer any advice but it doesnt sound too hot

[chrjen]

????

[Tomcat]

Silly question but have you checked the oil?, is the oil pressure light coming on?.

You don't say what you where doing when this started to happen, it does sound like it's top end(maybe a stuck lifter)..

[chrjen]

I changed the oil and filter, and drove for 30 min to make it hot and flowing. No changes what so ever.

No lights what so ever.

[bigg1115]

im new to volvo's my self, but i had a corsa gsi with a 2.0 redtop conversion fitted and it turned out to be the oil pressure relief valve which i took out and replaced with a nylon one
this is just a guess though but it sounds the same as what mine used to do
but as i said its just a guess

also i had a saab 9-5 turbo which done the same started tapping turned out to be the wrong grade of oil as it only done it when hot, when it was cold it was mint
changed the oil and it was mint

hope this helps

good look

george

[Tomcat]

I changed the oil and filter, and drove for 30 min to make it hot and flowing. No changes what so ever.

No lights what so ever.

Mmmm what grade of oil and what sort of filter did you use?.

[chrjen]

Genuine volvo filter and 5/40 oil. We have -5 Celcius at the moment here in Denmark.

[Tomcat]

Strange, unless the car hasn't been service for a while and the 5/40's cleaned out some of the crap in the engine and some has gotten stuck in one of the lifters.

[SKIDMARKS]

Def sounds like a lifter damaged. stuck.

[LeeT5]

I am 100% certain that your problem (after listening to vid) is a solid hydraulic lifter. Early T5's and 5 pot engines suffered with this problem.

Before you do anything i would run some engine flush through your engine and maybe it will unclog the offending lifters. If that doesn't work then...
Best advice i can give you would be to whip the head off and replace ALL the lifters. Do it before you damage one of the cam shafts.

Good luck.

[volvoturboman]

Hows it driving? Is it missing as well or just the noise. The reason I ask is because I had what would normally be a usual problem and simple problem turned out very hard to pin point. Mines was missing like it was running out of fuel and sounded exactly like that. A Volvo tec and 4 hours later it turned out to be a dodgy ignition lead believe it or not. Changed lead all leads and its been running like a clock since. It wasn't even considered because of the knocking. We thought it was the big end, so what should have been simple and straight forward turned out a nightmare all because of a noise exactly like that.

Good luck anyway. The other guys could also be right cause I did hear lifters being mentioned when mines started to tap.

[LeeT5]

Hows it driving? Is it missing as well or just the noise. The reason I ask is because I had what would normally be a usual problem and simple problem turned out very hard to pin point. Mines was missing like it was running out of fuel and sounded exactly like that. A Volvo tec and 4 hours later it turned out to be a dodgy ignition lead believe it or not. Changed lead all leads and its been running like a clock since. It wasn't even considered because of the knocking. We thought it was the big end, so what should have been simple and straight forward turned out a nightmare all because of a noise exactly like that.

Good luck anyway. The other guys could also be right cause I did hear lifters being mentioned when mines started to tap.

Nice idea but that is most definitely a metallic sound of valve gear.

[volvoturboman]

Nice idea but that is most definitely a metallic sound of valve gear.

I'd say your more than likely right, I'm probably throwing out some false hope. But I was really really luckywhen that happened me and I'm not usually lucky so I'm sure there are some lucky people out there. I'd say the chances are on the lifters though after listening again.

[chrjen]

The car drives perfect - if i turn up the volume there is nothing telling me that there is anything wrong.

[HADI]

bit off topic but i owned a 2.0 16v ford probe a few years back and it made a similar noise but only after driving for a few miles, stayed till the engine was cold again, when it did appear reving would not get rid or anything, turned out to be a common fault in the mazda oil pump used to draw in air and air lock causing the noise, mazda dealer diagnosed in a couple of minutes and pump was replaced and noise gone, just shows the vast array of faults that can cause these things, strangley enough when i showed a ford mechanic the problem with the engine all his years experience and hard toil at college came up with this lengthy diagnosis " TAPPETS MEGA BUCKS"

[LeeT5]

The car drives perfect - if i turn up the volume there is nothing telling me that there is anything wrong.

There won't be. The 'Hydraulic lifter' NOT 'Tappet', is still moving but it has just gone hard and probably doesn't rotate anymore either. The tapping noise is the cam lobe smashing into the top of the lifter and there being no 'give' cos it is solid.

For the record, you won't really need to diagnose which one...just replace them all. They are about £18 each and there are 20 of them. You do the maths!

[volvoturboman]

Damn thats expensive

[chrjen]

Merry Christmas everyone...

Here is an update on my cars loud tapping noise.

The head was removed and had the lifters, valves and valvegear renewed - so the head is basically new. The oilpan was taken of to inspect main bearings etc. and everything there looked like new.

No changes what so ever.......still £££££££g loud!

So two hours ago, we put on a oil preassure gauge, and the pressure as such was fine - warm at 33 psi at idle and 74 psi at 4000 rpm....but at idle the pressure was unstable - +/- 5-7 psi.

My question is, is that enough to indicate, that the oilpump is drawing air in together with the oil - ie. Oil pump O-ring faulty ?????????

I think it does, but I would like to have some second opinions, before it split the pan again

[Liddo]

Take a listen to this, it does sound like yours a little

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doA9jPdH5qc

This was my S70 engine, after i bent a rod due to overboost, due to a broken elbow joint on the turbo control something or other. Mine used to stutter every now and then when i got it remapped, i didnt realise it was the ECU trying to let me know there was a problem, and i kept my foot HARD down and bent a rod :(

£950 later, it was all fixed :(

[Chopster]

That's deffo a hydraulic tappet with an oil starvation problem, I can understand why everyone has said just throw a set of lifters in and it should sort it (I'd have said exactly the same) but as you've gone down that road and it's now exactly the same you have to find out why the lifters aren't getting the oil they need.
I gather the only time they shut up (for a short time) is just after you've changed the oil?

I'd personally be in a bit of a dilemma whether or not it's worth picking up a known good second hand head (you'll easily get one for £150) and just throwing that on, or you can go down the hope this'll sort it route... ie whip the cams and lifters back out and blast an air line down all the oil ways would be one of the first things I'd have to try.

[SKIDMARKS]

Agree with chopster, did you inspect the old lifters for wear ? If someone has flushed, it may have dislodged some **** that is still present. Some may agree that it's ok to disturb the crap inside but it's only one piece is all it takes.

[glmotors]

worked on these t5 engines for many years in my workshops. Normally tappets noisy after being stood unused for some time. I would try an engine flush and drain oil when nice and hot. Try 0/40 Mobil oil. If no improvement wynns hydraulic valve treatment, have had good success on k series rovers with it. Dont be afraid and take it for a good hard thrash. if no improvement you will need to replace all tappets as lengthy strip down so no point in changing a few as you wont know which is the noisy ones.

[RT MECHANICS]

Merry Christmas everyone...

Here is an update on my cars loud tapping noise.

The head was removed and had the lifters, valves and valvegear renewed - so the head is basically new. The oilpan was taken of to inspect main bearings etc. and everything there looked like new.

No changes what so ever.......still £££££££g loud!

So two hours ago, we put on a oil preassure gauge, and the pressure as such was fine - warm at 33 psi at idle and 74 psi at 4000 rpm....but at idle the pressure was unstable - +/- 5-7 psi.

My question is, is that enough to indicate, that the oilpump is drawing air in together with the oil - ie. Oil pump O-ring faulty ?????????

I think it does, but I would like to have some second opinions, before it split the pan again

Sorry to say it does sound like a bent rod to me when the oil pan was off did you inspect the conrod webs to see it they are in contact with the crank as this is how it can show i doubt its lifters but one question to ask is are they brand new lifters ?????????

Russ

[chrjen]

Yes, the lifters are all brand new. The whole heads internals are brand new parts.
The work has been carried out by a very skilled volvo mechanic - but he has NEVER heard this sound before.

Russ have you ever changed these o ring bacause of variable oil pressure ??

Look and listedn to the following, which is an american t5 which was 100% cured with the oil pump o-ring fix. I think it sounds VERY similar to mine:
http://s195.photobucket.com/albums/z113/pelicanflyt/?action=view&current=MVI_3813.mp4

[RT MECHANICS]

Yes, the lifters are all brand new. The whole heads internals are brand new parts.
The work has been carried out by a very skilled volvo mechanic - but he has NEVER heard this sound before.

Russ have you ever changed these o ring bacause of variable oil pressure ??

Look and listedn to the following, which is an american t5 which was 100% cured with the oil pump o-ring fix. I think it sounds VERY similar to mine:
http://s195.photobucket.com/albums/z113/pelicanflyt/?action=view&current=MVI_3813.mp4

Hi Chrjen

Nice to know you have used new parts at least you can hopefully discount them being the problem what i would do next is do a leak down test (its easy to do i am sure your mech has the kit) as this will tell you for sure if a lifter is stuck or not.

The O ring failure has been seen before (did your mech use new o rings if he had the oil pan off ?? also do double check your conrod/crank bearings for wear if the oil pressure is to low.

I did once have a t5 in with a similar noise and the volvo dealer had told the guy it was lifters (Only ever seen two cars with worn out lifters) i took of the sump to look at the conrod bearings and one of the shells was cracked in half !!!!!!!!!!!!

The noise on the above vid sounds different to yours but they can do on a vid !! yours sounds more of a thumping sound and like its missing an cylinder..

Did he check the webs on the crank for damage ??

Russ

[Chopster]

I'll leave RT to help you out with this one as he's the Volvo specialist but out of curiosity did the noise go away for a short time after an oil change?

[chrjen]

My mechanic has been doing 5-cyl. volvo's since 1992 - so his knowledge about these engines is massive, but he has never hear of the o ring problems. He says that the sound is following the rpm of the engine / cams.
No he didn't use new o rings, as he has never heard of this problem before.
Leak down has been done - no leaks at all.
Crank bearing / shells looked like new as well.
I know vids do make the sounds differ, but I think this vid sounds EXACTLY as mine does...
Unfortunately I live in Denmark, so Russ is not an option to me, But living in a high car tax country, the expertise on these t5 engine is not that high.

[RT MECHANICS]

My mechanic has been doing 5-cyl. volvo's since 1992 - so his knowledge about these engines is massive, but he has never hear of the o ring problems. He says that the sound is following the rpm of the engine / cams.
No he didn't use new o rings, as he has never heard of this problem before.
Leak down has been done - no leaks at all.
Crank bearing / shells looked like new as well.
I know vids do make the sounds differ, but I think this vid sounds EXACTLY as mine does...
Unfortunately I live in Denmark, so Russ is not an option to me, But living in a high car tax country, the expertise on these t5 engine is not that high.

Hi The o ring problem is mainly on the P2 cars for some reason if he did not use new seals i would replace them straight away (this will not sure the noise though but while he is there check closely the crank webs i still think its a bent rod is the car standard ???

I am sure you guy can solve it

Russ

[chrjen]

Hi Russ.

Funny thing is, that here in europe, the o ring problem is pretty uncommon, but in the US it is very common. I have found most info about it "over there". The vids of the silver v70 above was 100% cured by the o ring fix.

Yes my car is 100% standard - actually the only turbo volvo i have ever had which isn't modified....

[SAMXPJ]

As the noise continues at higher revs than idle when the oil pressure is 33psi rising to 74psi at 4000rpm I would think it is not an oil pump problem. It is years since a stripped a t5 engine but is there an external oil pressure feed pipe to the cam shafts that could possible be blocked ?