Gearbox vs. driveshaft vs. wheel bearing noise

[daveforber]

What's the difference in the symptoms?

I've just had a shed load of work done on my 480 (gearbox oil, n/s/f wheel bearing, check o/s/f driveshaft & CV joint plus cam belt & general fluids). All parts genuine Volvo from Rufe.

Anyway, the guy who did the work reckons the gearbox is sounding noisier now the fluid has been changed. Having driven it, I reckon it's the wheel bearing he's changed.

It grinds (for want of a better description) loudly - audible within the car - with windows closed. There's no discernible noise when stationary, and it gets louder proportional to speed. Gear change is smooth, and the volume/pitch does not alter when the gear is changed (i.e. it's the same volume/pitch at 20mph whether in 1st, 2nd or 3rd).

Doesn't seem to ease off turning round a corner though.

I reckon he's forgotten to grease the bearing myself, but apparently they come pre-greased?

Any ideas?

[nobananas]

Bearings on the front will be sealed units so will already be greased. Wheel bearings tend to get noisier when turning corners so louder when turning left could mean it's an O/S bearing as the weight transfers over to that side and vice-versa when turning right (not always the case though, some noises 'travel' and do strange things !). Gearbox bearing noises come in a variety of different types . A noise that rises with road speed and may lessen or disappear when lifting off and get noisy again when decelerating through the gears is usually worn diff bearings but a whine that's only noticeable in certain gears or is audible when the vehicle is at idle, in neutral with the clutch engaged that then disappears when the clutch is depressed is likely to be input or main-shaft bearings. I often jack up the front of a vehicle, support it on stands then run it up in gear to try and pinpoint the noise but be very careful if you do this. I think I'm right in saying that your 480 has a Renault JC5 in it which does suffer from diff bearings. I changed my Laguna box last Christmas when it started to get noisy (at 240,000 miles !) and swapped an equally noisy second hand box into it bought off ebay !. The good news is that they can carry on like this for thousands of miles !

[daveforber]

Well, I know the engine is Renault-sourced & Volvo modified, so I suspect the same could be true of the gearbox.

The noise remains whether or not the clutch is in, whether or not it's put in neutral and regardless of gear and it's silent (inside the car anyway) when stationary or at less than, say, 5mph.

If you reckon, as the mechanic does, that it sounds like gearbox bearings (which makes me rather regret having the fluid changed).

I assume I'd be able to rule out a wheel bearing issue if I jack the front and turn the wheels? Assuming it's nice and smooth, we're deffo looking at gearbox I suppose.

[nobananas]

Unlikely you will feel or hear any noise from the bearing turning it by hand. What I did with my Laguna to identify the diff noise in my second gearbox was to jack up one wheel (handbrake on, lots of space around) then run it up in gear whilst listening inside the car and outside. I then did the same with the other side. The noise was the same regardless of which side was jacked up (indeed it was worse all round as the diff was working harder) which convinced me that it was the diff at fault and not a wheel bearing. On the Laguna there is also a driveshaft support bearing which is worth checking and the N/S drive shaft inner boot has a bearing where the drive shaft passes through (the boot stays still) which again is worth a listen, your's may be the same set-up.

[orse]

Just another thought if you are getting what sounds like a wheel bearing noise it is possible it could be a tyre that has gone mishaped causing it.If you jack each corner up and run your hands round the entire tyre should be no lumps/bumps on the tread all even as such.Worth a check as will be cheaper than a gearbox i would think.

[daveforber]

I'm now 90% certain it's the bearing, specifically that it hasn't been fitted properly.

I jacked up the front of the car and rotated both left and right wheels. I then 'shook' them. The left side, which is the one that was replaced, definitely knocks and has plenty of play. I thought that the wheel wasn't actually attached properly, but the bolts are in firmly ... so presumably something that attaches the hub (if that's what it's called) to the shaft (presumably the bearing?) isn't properly secure.

Needless to say it's going back.

[nobananas]

I'm now 90% certain it's the bearing, specifically that it hasn't been fitted properly.

I jacked up the front of the car and rotated both left and right wheels. I then 'shook' them. The left side, which is the one that was replaced, definitely knocks and has plenty of play. I thought that the wheel wasn't actually attached properly, but the bolts are in firmly ... so presumably something that attaches the hub (if that's what it's called) to the shaft (presumably the bearing?) isn't properly secure.

Needless to say it's going back.

There shouldn't be any play at all in a front bearing. Sounds as if the center nut that pulls the driveshaft through the bearing and locks it all together hasn't been tightened fully.

[nobananas]

Just another thought if you are getting what sounds like a wheel bearing noise it is possible it could be a tyre that has gone mishaped causing it.If you jack each corner up and run your hands round the entire tyre should be no lumps/bumps on the tread all even as such.Worth a check as will be cheaper than a gearbox i would think.

Damn true. One of my colleagues had a front wheel bearing noise on his own car. He replaced the suspect bearing, but the noise persisted, so he did the other, still noisy. It was as you say that one of the front tires had gone out of shape. The tires tread blocks had started to lift on the inner edge creating the exact same hum as a worn bearing. We have since noticed that a lot of this particular make of tyre seem to do this, we don't fit that make anymore !

[daveforber]

I took it back ... somewhere else as it felt dangerous to drive.

Their verdict?

Brand new bearing @ £50 is destroyed. Free play on said bearing meant calliper affected = no braking on that side. Drive shaft has been drilled. Receptionist used the words "lethal" and "butchers". First time I've *ever* had a car come back worse than it was when it went in.

In fairness the receptionist was rather more damning than the mechanic, who was being understandably cautious in dishing out the blame and wants to do more investigation before giving an official opinion. Essentially he thinks the bearing was actually fitted OK, but doesn't understand why the drive shaft was drilled, calling it 'inexplicable' (I can't think why anyone would do that either).

Obviously I intend to recover the money for labour, the bearing and the drive shaft (assuming the evidence is that he butchered it), however in the meantime I have a decision to make about the car.

I could fix it, but that's going to cost me a bearing, a drive shaft and probably one on the other side, which was an MOT advisory. That's going to be upwards of £600 given the cost of new drive shafts, and I don't highly rate the chances of recovering all of that. If I could recover all consequential damage, that's probably what I'd do.

I could sell it at a massive loss. I'd be interested in what it's worth now - a 1995 white turbo with 9 month's MOT, but I expect it isn't worth much given the current problems.

The sensible option would be to break the car. But it's a 1995 car in reasonably good condition bar a couple of scuffs and chips, and I didn't buy it to break it - I bought it to drive it. For fun, which it was until this week.

I'm not going to name the garage (which is a mobile guy in Winterbourne, Bristol) publicly as this could go to court. Suffice it to say I'm rather angry that my car, which was fine, is now broken and technically beyond economic repair.

[nobananas]

Hi Dave, sorry to hear of the grief you've been through, gives all garages a bad name. I don't understand why the driveshaft was 'drilled'. Did you get to see it and if so whereabouts was it drilled ?

[daveforber]

I'm going to have a look on Monday - it's in bits at the local garage. Will have a good ol' chat with their mechanic, look at the bits and decide on the way forward (for the 480, that is). I want to fix it but 2x driveshafts (one was an advisory on the last MOT but has now split, presumably separately from the debacle above) is rather a lot, even from Rufe. The turbo shafts are difficult to come by used too - most on eBay are n/a and they have different part numbers for some reason.

Will take and post the obligatory sad pics.