How much is my car worth?

[MattM]

It's 2002 '52' S60 T5 SE Geartronic. 95k miles, Full Service History (can't prove it though so it will have to go down as part). Cambelt done recently, 3 months Tax, 9 months MOT.

http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/786/img0982.png

Thanks

[cornclose]

You flogging it already ?

[MattM]

Thinking about it. I really can't get on with this gearbox. It's doing all sorts of strange things which I'm sure if I explained to the volvo dealership they would think I was mad.

[Murphy]

With a faulty box, not a lot. Nice spec though. :)

[MattM]

I think most people would be fine with the box, most wouldn't even know there was any issues. My missus drives it and thinks I'm making them up, but I notice them more when I'm driving long distance on the motorway. How much would it fetch forgetting about any niggles from the gear box?

[Jaseb77]

approx £2K I would have thought (IMHO)

[MattM]

approx £2K I would have thought (IMHO)

Really? I paid £4k for it 4 months ago..

[Murphy]

Glasse's guide

Volvo S60 T5 SE
2.3 Petrol 4-door Saloon
5 Speed Automatic Front Wheel Drive
Year: 2002 52
Mileage: 95,000

Part-exchange Price:
Excellent condition:
£3130
Average condition:
£2820
Below average condition:
£2500

Similar car here for just over £3k http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/2001-VOLVO-S60-T5-AUTO-GEARTRONIC-EXCELLENT-CONDITION_W0QQitemZ300386381560QQcmdZViewItemQQptZ Automobiles_UK?hash=item45f06c6ef8#ht_2707wt_1167

£3500 would be a good start......

[Jaseb77]

Really? I paid £4k for it 4 months ago..

sorry 3K then

just going by another picked up by my mate recently
2002 '52' S60 2.4T SE Man. 70k miles FVSH

£2.5k

[MattM]

If I could get the gear box working as it should then I could live with the car. As it is, driving to work is making me depressed. I need to do a gear box ATF flush but I'm getting no where. Can't find anywhere to buy the stuff cheap enough and there's no guarantee it will fix anything.

Anyone heard of these guys http://www.pwcars.co.uk/ ?

It would be ideal if I could find a specialist who could take a look at the issue. Volvo want £60 to take a look.

[richiemat]

Sent you a PM.

[cornclose]

This (http://forums.t5d5.org/failure-complete-aw55-50adaption-procedure-t10207-pid-117429.html/page__view__findpost__p__117429) was posted recently over on 'the other' forum...

[MattM]

Interesting. Well I had my TCM updated by Volvo when I had the ATF change, but it made no difference. When driving along, if I take my foot off the accelerator and the revs get to around 2k, it goes into what feels like neutral. When I press down again on the accelerator, the revs move up and 2 seconds later the car engages the gear very unsmoothly. I'm no expert, but this all sounds like something electronic?

[cornclose]

Interesting. Well I had my TCM updated by Volvo when I had the ATF change, but it made no difference. When driving along, if I take my foot off the accelerator and the revs get to around 2k, it goes into what feels like neutral. When I press down again on the accelerator, the revs move up and 2 seconds later the car engages the gear very unsmoothly. I'm no expert, but this all sounds like something electronic?


I think that's the thrust of the thread I linked to. If you do a software update, it's likely that the adaptation procedure needs to be done again if there are problems with the gear changes. If the adaptations are not done, maybe the issues won't go away ?

[MattM]

Are you saying that with a software update, if the adaption process isn't done, it essentially still uses the old gear changes?

I've got the car booked into the Volvo specialist I linked above to get them to look at it. I will mention that I had the TCM updated.


The AW 55-50 automatic transmission used in certain MY 00 S/V 70's and all MY 01 S/V40, C70, vehicles incorporate adaptive functions. If a software download is performed, the transmission or TCM are replaced, or the vehicle is new, an adaptation procedure may need to be performed. Complaints of harsh gear engagement and harsh upshifts/downshifts are indications that the adaptation procedure may not have been completed.*

Christ! You're right, this could explain it.

[cornclose]

Then of course it's always possible that if the gearbox oil has in the past (before you owned it) been replaced with something other than the recommended Volvo gearbox oil it could very well be shagged.

I keep reading about how anything other than the recommended oil will bugger these boxes.

I quote some reliable source :-

Note: The friction properties of this transmission fluid are different
from other fluids due to the large amount of converter clutch slip.
Failure to use the correct fluid will cause transmission damage
and codes.

In that case, effectively using Saab/GM or any other manufacturer fluid will potentially stuff your transmission.... Even though they use the common gearbox, but with completely differing control methods/modules -

I should also add for those who will doubt that information, that this information didn't come from Vadis or a Volvo source.

[MattM]

Well I recently found out that in 2007 the solenoid in the gear box was replaced at a price of £1,000, not sure exactly what this means, but maybe this is linked?

I wonder if it's worth speaking to Phil Whitaker about the adaptive process.

[richiemat]

Well I recently found out thatin 2007 the solenoid in the gear box was replaced at a price of £1,000, not sure exactly what this means, but maybe this is linked?

I wonder if it's worth speaking to Phil Whitaker about the adaptive process.

Good to see you are booked in somewhere

From what it appears then the box has been off once before, did it state on the receipt which Fluid was used in 2007?

[MattM]

Good to see you are booked in somewhere

From what it appears then the box has been off once before, did it state on the receipt which Fluid was used in 2007?

Not sure, it was done by the previous owner and it's on the Volvo records. I wonder if they can give me more information if I ask?

[cornclose]

From what I've read only Volvo level equipment can put the gearbox into adaptive-learn mode. So that means either Volvo dealers who know their stuff or a select few independants who have VADIS, who also know there stuff (one immediately springs to mind...).

I hear MRG Volvo in Chippenham are excellent and I can also personally recommend TMS Volvo in Hinckley. I can't remember where you are though, but my guess is somewhere down South if Phil Whittaker is an option for you...

[richiemat]

Not sure, it was done by the previous owner and it's on the Volvo records. I wonder if they can give me more information if I ask?

If it was done by a dealer then it would/should only be the recommended fluid

[MattM]

I'm in Milton Keynes, and work in Slough a few days a week. According to Phil Whittaker's website they have access to VADIS. I'm just wondering whether I should speak to them about my recent TCM update and if they know about the adaptive procedure.

[MattM]

Right spoke to Volvo here who did the TCM update, and turns out they didn't do the Adaptive Procedure. They don't seem to have a clue about the adaptive procedure, and seem to think it's used in fault finding? They have agreed to read my fault codes for free so they are doing that tomorrow. I'll see what that brings up then speak to the specialists here in Slough about doing the adaptive procedure.

[cornclose]

To my mind, if VADIS says it should be done after a software update - it should've been done! They should now do it for free... They obviously don't know as much as they ought to!

[MattM]

Indeed. I've spoken to the specialist I'm booked in with on Thursday about this procedure and they seem to think when the TCM is updated it relearns automatically. It's always in an adaptive mode. Does anyone know about this procedure lol? I also got a quote for a ATF flush £210 all in.

Thing is, I want this adaptive procedure done, and by someone who knows why it's done and how it's done. Otherwise I could be chasing a ghost.

[MattM]

I'm not so sure it's required when you update the TCM.


Performing the adaptive learn procedure is necessary whenever the transmission is rebuilt or replaced, the valve body is replaced or the TCM is replaced.

[cornclose]

I'm not so sure it's required when you update the TCM.

Not sure either, but it might be the starting point.

[MattM]

I think the plan of action is to take the car in to Phil Whitakers and show them what the problem is, and see what they suggest to fix it. I have the car booked in tomorrow with Volvo in Milton Keynes to have my codes pulled, but that's as much as I'm willing to let them do. Never know, it may turn up something else.

[MattM]

Volvo took a look this morning for free and here are the findings.

- TCM is up to date.
- Gearbox oil is at the correct level and condition is fine.
- The guy taking it for a drive couldn't find anything wrong with it.

I'm starting to think I'm imagining this problem to be worse than it is. When I drive I tend to watch the revs a lot to spot anything strange - maybe this isn't a good idea on an auto gearbox. I decided to drive the car home and not pay attention to the revs, and just drive it. It felt fine if I'm honest. I'll keep an eye on it but I don't really want to pay out £200~ to have the ATF flushed if it's not really necessary.

[richiemat]

Volvo took a look this morning for free and here are the findings.

- TCM is up to date.
- Gearbox oil is at the correct level and condition is fine.
- The guy taking it for a drive couldn't find anything wrong with it.

I'm starting to think I'm imagining this problem to be worse than it is. When I drive I tend to watch the revs a lot to spot anything strange - maybe this isn't a good idea on an auto gearbox. I decided to drive the car home and not pay attention to the revs, and just drive it. It felt fine if I'm honest. I'll keep an eye on it but I don't really want to pay out £200~ to have the ATF flushed if it's not really necessary.

Might still be worth a second opinion, even if only to quash your concerns.

Sounds positive though.

[princepugh]

At the risk of sounding like a bitter and twisted pessimist and potentially offending any dealers on the forum, isn't the standard line from Volvo to ignore any customer reported problems which don't log a code and report as 'no fault found'? lol

Seriously though, you're doing the right thing by getting a second opinion - half the battle will be to ensure the technician involved understands the symptom and can preferably experience it.

Hope you make some progress, would be a shame to have to sell it on..

[MattM]

I'm going to take someone from Phil Whitaker out for a drive and highlight what I believe to be the issues. It's the only way really. Around town the car drives quite normally, but it's on the motorway or cruising when it becomes an issue.