t5 keeping turbo but adding a supercharger

[woking rob]

has any1 thought about doing this? coz i think it shouldnt b that hard
850 t5 without aircon so u got somewhere to mount it some custom pipe work good remap a a better ecu = loads of boost no lag would it b this easy?

o and a good rebuild ha ha

[p fandango]

i did think about it some time again & even planned out the pipework & how it would go, i was going to use a supercharger off the new Mini Cooper S but the the price of secondhand ones shot up for some reason. You can even buy the adaptor plate for the superchargers so they can be plumbed in using normal pipes instead of the chambers which they use on the BMW engines

[woking rob]

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BMW-Mini-Cooper-S-Eaton-M45-Supercharger-Upgrade_W0QQitemZ150398316483QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK _CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item2304702fc 3 there is a mini one but i was thinking somthing a bit smaller like this g60 one http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/VW-G60-Corrado-supercharger-from-a-1992-model_W0QQitemZ160387470560QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_C arsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item2557d694e0 but an upgrad to this but that sort of size

will it work?

[linkin582]

you can pick one up fairly cheep off a vw corrado g60. they are only a 1.8 so it should drop off as the turbo kicks in !!!! or of a polo g40 parts are cheep enough and easy to get thou a vw dealer !!!

[p fandango]

the G60 one is knackered, the case is holed. What turbo you thinking of running with it? I get no lag off my 19t so tbh i wouldn't bother inless your going really big, in which case you've got to start looking at way to divert the air once the turbo pressure builds so the supercharger is strangling the air for the turbo

[Volvostorm]

The supercharger I've been looking at for my Sierra 24v is a Rotrex, it's about the size of an alternator. bit less bulky than the mini cooper one

http://www.rotrexsuperchargers.co.uk/c30.htm

[woking rob]

im not at the mo just thinking about if it would work
and i no i was just showing u the shape charger i was thinking about
i could get a coustom mount made
if i put a stage2 g60 charger (good for 250bhp on its own) on my standard t5
put the boost pipes into the turbo boost pipes with a bigger alloy intercooler green injectors and a good remap and full 3"exaust no cat would this work?

[p fandango]

The supercharger I've been looking at for my Sierra 24v is a Rotrex, it's about the size of an alternator. bit less bulky than the mini cooper one

http://www.rotrexsuperchargers.co.uk/c30.htm
have a look at the Suzuki Hayabusa conversion Rotrex do, they've got a video of one pushing 310bhp@wheel lol

[p fandango]

im not at the mo just thinking about if it would work
and i no i was just showing u the shape charger i was thinking about
i could get a coustom mount made
if i put a stage2 g60 charger (good for 250bhp on its own) on my standard t5
put the boost pipes into the turbo boost pipes with a bigger alloy intercooler green injectors and a good remap and full 3"exaust no cat would this work?
i can't see why not, as i say my concern would be the supercharger sufficating the air for the turbo. Which as the G60 is going to at the top of its flow at 250bhp will start to be an issue. Say personally i don't think its worth the effort developing for the little amount of lag you get

[p fandango]

my bro did have a hybrid turbo/supercharger unit he was going to fit on his F*rd 100e company van. It was quite a small unit so wouldn't of ran much power but was like a small turbo in a cylinder, had the normal turbo pipework but had a pulley on the end of the shaft. I assume internally it was on a freewheeling system so once the exhaust gases had built up enough the inner turbine rotated free from the pulley so the turbo bit took over

http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/4762/archive6.jpg

[linkin582]

it would be a hell of a lot of work thou ! why not look at twin turbo system little feeding big .i think one of the new bmw's run this set up.im sure someone will lets know what it is on !!!

[woking rob]

i just wanna do somthing diffrent and have ago at making somthing

[p fandango]

it would be a hell of a lot of work thou ! why not look at twin turbo system little feeding big .i think one of the new bmw's run this set up.im sure someone will lets know what it is on !!!
thats quite an old idea, not sure what other cars have used it in the past

or how about running 2 big turbo's, don't worry about space (i might of just found why i'm cutting my spare wheel well out of BT lol)
http://images.paultan.org/uploads/2007/02/bmw_m5_twin_turbo_7.jpg

[linkin582]

it was on the new 3 series oil burner !the theory is the same thou .if you want
something diffrent how about a small block.lol

[p fandango]

if you want something diffrent how about a small block.lol
seen it done on a wide arched Volvo 700 at Avon, it was slower than the T-5's lol

[woking rob]

i was gonna put a 305 small block in my old mk2 feaista but my uncle has got 1 in a mazda pick up and his cousin has laods of projects like a old nash a chev bellair with a 7.2 twin turbo and a lil fiat what he is gonna put a v12 masarti engine in lol

[linkin582]

is he putting the v12 in the fiat or the fiat in the v12 !!!

[woking rob]

v12 in the fiat,

[Al115]

seen it done on a wide arched Volvo 700 at Avon, it was slower than the T-5's lol

I was there that day as well... those guys got more and more upset as the day wore on!!!

Good project though.

[claymore]

thers no way the mini sc would work, it's only good for about 220bhp, then it would actually start restricting the flow, much better to use one off a jaguar xjr, I was going to do something similar to my fiat marea, but there just wasn't enough room for the turbo. I have looked at puting a supercharger on the t5, but I dont think there would be enough room without some majour surgery.

[smithy]

seen it done on a wide arched Volvo 700 at Avon, it was slower than the T-5's lol

its the gearbox that made that slow and i think it was only a standard 302 cp motors own it

[850 2.5 10v]

How much extra is a S/C actually worth?

[timbo_1975]

If you consider for instance the VAG Twincharger 1.4, which would be what you are creating. These are plumbed airfilter > turbo compressor > SC > intercooler > engine.

They use a diverter valve which short-circuits the SC as the turbo takes over- which it will do so much earlier on than if it was on it's own- due to the engine seeing positive boost (i.e. greater airflow) as a result of the SC. The notable point here is you dont need a HOOOGE SC as you are bypassing it by about 2-2500rpm.

The other essential component is the magnetic clutch on the SC drive pulley which the ECU disengages at idle, and when the diverter valve is fully err diverting, as you dont need to be spinning the SC at this point.

Throw in a fairly powerful ECU, and some cunning software, and the transition is seamless.

On the other hand Detroit have long favoured running the SC at all times. As long as you use a fixed displacement SC, then boost out = 2x boost in. It works, but this is a much less efficient way of doing things.

[woking rob]

ok iv got a clam type sc off of a mec kompressor im not gonna start fitting it till after jan but gonna size it up and get the the plate made for the bottom so it goes to pipe,
the pipe going into the charger will need to b bigger than the 1 coming out right? and i dont think my charger will start tailling off till about 6k so im gonna just get them to run together and im gonna have to get a better ecu to rum the clutch for the sc or is there a way round this (maybe get it maped to idel running boost?)

[p fandango]

thers no way the mini sc would work, it's only good for about 220bhp, then it would actually start restricting the flow, much better to use one off a jaguar xjr, I was going to do something similar to my fiat marea, but there just wasn't enough room for the turbo. I have looked at puting a supercharger on the t5, but I dont think there would be enough room without some majour surgery.
not sure if the engine would like it or not, but having a Y-piece to the turbo inlet which bypasses the SC would remove the restriction. The turbo will always take air from the easiest route, which would be the pressured air from idle, then once the turbo comes onto boost it will automatically take it from the direct pipe to the filter because as you say it will be freer flowing

[p fandango]

ok iv got a clam type sc off of a mec kompressor im not gonna start fitting it till after jan but gonna size it up and get the the plate made for the bottom so it goes to pipe,
the pipe going into the charger will need to b bigger than the 1 coming out right? and i dont think my charger will start tailling off till about 6k so im gonna just get them to run together and im gonna have to get a better ecu to rum the clutch for the sc or is there a way round this (maybe get it maped to idel running boost?)
when the SC starts tailing off will depend on the drive ratio off the belt & how much boost its making

i would go for the Turbo Tuner ECU, you can get it mapped locally on any rolling road to whatever the engine needs

[claymore]

I used a dastek on mine, I think it would work well on this aplication as well.
Which model SC have you got,?It would need to be at least an eaton M60

[timbo_1975]

A largeish blower would be a good idea on paper, but (if I understand correctly) the OP wants to use the turbo for top end power ?? Thus you dont need a massive SC, as this is going to be stationary after about 3000rpm?

A big blower is going to take alot of power to turn it, just at low revs where you are looking for torque, so i'd go for a smallish one like off the mini, perhaps gear it up a touch, then cut it out as the turbo takes over. Given that big torque bends rods in the T5 motor with consumate ease at low revs, the SC will not need to be too vicious!

[woking rob]

i just want loads of boost no lag and to b diffrent so wot i can work out is the charger needs to b big enough and have enough drive to hold boost till the turbo runs out aswell so it dont make the turbo struggle

am i right in thinking if the charger does 20psi and the charger puts out 20psi the inlet will have about 40psi?

[claymore]

i just want loads of boost no lag and to b diffrent so wot i can work out is the charger needs to b big enough and have enough drive to hold boost till the turbo runs out aswell so it dont make the turbo struggle

am i right in thinking if the charger does 20psi and the charger puts out 20psi the inlet will have about 40psi?

No, I think it will still be 20psi, when I put an eaon m45 on my Fiat, even with it over reving, it only managed 16psi.

[timbo_1975]

With all due respect, unless the engine is properly built, you'll grenade it with "lots of boost".

Have a read of turbo compounding and the like, will help you understand how turbo's react and need to be sized when running an additional means of applying boost- your stock turbo will be too small for best gains when used with a SC.

You are kinda correct in saying that if a turbo supplies x boost to the SC, then the SC will output x + y boost, but depends on several factors!

However, as i've said, continuing to drive and flow through the SC after the turbo has spooled will waste alot of energy and be counter productive.

40psi? bloody hell! LOL

[Alan M]

A new company in Sweden is offering both petrol and diesel compound charging setups. They have been using high pressure rail setups though so fueling is controlled very carefully due to the pressures at which they run. I haven't seen or read about any low rail pressure setups running a diverter type SC bypass/turbo system (apart from the VW TSI systems) but it would make interesting reading should someone be able to provide any links for me to read online. Why go to the effort in the first place on such a car as ours when tried and tested routes have been established with larger turbos and a well built/setup engine and accompanying mods!?

[woking rob]

i just wanna play around with it to tell u the truth, the car dont owe me anything i have been given a mec sc so i just wanna see if i can get it working and if i can i will put loads of money into it with a bigger turbo an get the charger matched up to the turbo and then a full engine rebuild big ports and valves and head and if need b itbs if fueling is a problem and if it blows up i i aint down

[claymore]

i just wanna play around with it to tell u the truth, the car dont owe me anything i have been given a mec sc so i just wanna see if i can get it working and if i can i will put loads of money into it with a bigger turbo an get the charger matched up to the turbo and then a full engine rebuild big ports and valves and head and if need b itbs if fueling is a problem and if it blows up i i aint down

good for you. thats exactly how I thought about supercharging the fiat. loads of people saying it couldnt be done etc, but I did it all for less than £400.

[woking rob]

yeah anything is possible if u wanna spend the time on it
im getting the s/c today i think so i will post befor it goes to my mate to mate pipes connect to it up some pic's so u can see the size of it see wot u think

[woking rob]

ok i dont think it will fit its a bit to big BUT i have an idea
does any1 no how hard it would b to put my engine in a e30 bmw? as i think i would have enough room as the engine will b the other way

[thebadger]

t5 keeping turbo but adding a suppercharger

Is this not something you find in a chip shop round my way?

£2.80 for a supper near me, so quite a good suppercharger! :rolleyes:

[Porcine_Aviator]

I was there that day as well... those guys got more and more upset as the day wore on!!!

Good project though.

But at least they tried and it gave you a laugh as the clubs T5s went down the strip and made the modded cars look silly.

I still have a laugh about how the commentator had a dig at Justin for not driving a Volvo :)

[Al115]

I couldn't agree more! :)

[leet5r]

how are you going to put the power down to the road.

[thebadger]

Blu-tac & hairspray on the tyres!

[p fandango]

soak the tyres overnight in lighter fluid, used to work on our Scalextric cars anyway lol

[Tomcat]

Is this not something you find in a chip shop round my way?

£2.80 for a supper near me, so quite a good suppercharger! :rolleyes:

Title fixed.....Lol.