AWD - Pro's and cons?

[Mr Sheen]

Been looking at a few cars with AWD, and I know next to sweet f.a. about it.

Is it a good setup or does it have some major (read costly) problems?

[Paul-V70RSaffron]

Think about if you really need AWD? if you dont avoid them as they are costly to fix, and it's usually not 'if' it brakes it's when! they weigh more also than the FWD cars, so slower off the mark.

[Dangerous Dave]

Unless its wet........



Anyway, AWD is like a PC, needs a lot of attention, always something wrong and always needs fixing.

T5 FWD is like an Apple Mac, nice and simple for those who don't want the hassle.

I've got an AWD, but I love it to bits, and I'm prepared to fix it whenever (and have done) and there's not many around these days. I bought mine because I always wanted one, its different to everything else

[MARKY70RRR]

ive got an awd and i love mine too,ok much heavier but miles better grip,had mine in 2wd form for a day(not long but long enough),grip was no where near as good as 4wd,as for probs,had a bearing go on prop shaft but after a chat with people in the know (rufe-tonyt5)hey presto,not so expensive after all,good luck.i bought my car not knowin jack just liked the car and that was that

[v70rade]

There always seems to be a lot of "bad press" given to the AWD system on the P1 cars, but from my perspective the system is worth every penny. You’re never aware of how effective the system is until you drive a FWD car in the wet!!! My AWD system cost me £860 for a complete overhaul of the transfer box and a check of viscous coupling / prop etc. this was 12 months ago and the first outlay on the AWD system in 30k miles of ownership. (Car now has 119k on the clock)

I could go on all day about my experiences and feelings about the AWD system, but the bottom line is: -

It is a mechanical system and as such will wear out / fail at some point. But from my experience the benefits faaaaaarrr exceed the occasional expense!!!

[muscas]

After 6 years of ownership the AWD system is bullet proof, I have got into the habit of swopping the tyres ever 5K miles to retain the 2mm rule, but in practice 2mm is a big difference and does not pose a problem.

I have had two T5's, brilliant cars BUT crap handling when compared to an AWD equiped car.

AWD's are quite often given a bad rep by those that have never had one!

A 1999/2000 V70R is quicker than a T5 and benefits from the improved handling, I suggest that is the one you should aim for.

Good luck with your decision.

[v70rade]

Totally agree with Patrick, AWD all the way!!!

[Paul-V70RSaffron]

some good points made, but if your like me and dont want to throw money at it, get a FWD manual, steer clear from AWD auto boxes another 'weak link'!

also tyres on AWD's pain in the ass, making sure they are all even tread etc, then you bin them prematurley and buy Four new ones!! cha ching!...whereas I just put the fronts on the back and vice versa, job done!

also fwd cars in the wet are absolutley fine(with good tyres) unless driven balls to the wall, but remember these have a LSD so unless your car/throttle control sucks, you will be fine,

I have owned a phase 2 flash Green V70R manual, great car,but VERY high maintenance!
AWD came in handy when it snowed, but that happend once in all the time I owned it, and was not in the habbit to take it out in bad weather anyway, WAY to many crap drivers on the road!!

but you will be hard pressed to find a good examples of a FWD manual V70R,
the AWD/Autos are common.

[Yosser]

but remember these have a LSD

Only the 'R' variants AFAIK.

[tigmac]

I love mine to bits...
picked it up cheap with 160k on the clock, then spent about 600 getting it 'driveable' and MOT'd (fr. wishbones, brakes, serviing etc etc) and now 10k miles later we've 'bonded' :-)
Yes, I do have other cars (Merc 190 AMG and a Celica GT4 Carlos Sainz) but Barry The Blue Brick is my 'daily' and he gets some real welly..together with regular oil/ filter changes!
The AWD has yet to show up problems (you watch, now I've mentioned it..!!) but I'll be spending some money on him soon: 1st up...BETTER BRAKES!
Wouldn't be without it now...

[mexybhouy]

Can only agree with the positive comments above, love mine!!!!

[Paul-V70RSaffron]

Only the 'R' variants AFAIK.
True, completley slipped my mind Mr Sheen was not talking about an R but any AWD, too use to posting on V70R.com lol

[jez.w]

[QUOTE=tigmac;265247]
Yes, I do have other cars (Merc 190 AMG and a Celica GT4 Carlos Sainz)
QUOTE]

I have a ST185CS also!!

[muscas]

[QUOTE=tigmac;265247]
Yes, I do have other cars (Merc 190 AMG and a Celica GT4 Carlos Sainz)
QUOTE]

I have a ST185CS also!!

Freaky, I sold my Carlos Sainz about 2 years ago, terrrific car, number 2606

Pics here:http://s214.photobucket.com/albums/cc286/muscas/Toyota%20Celica%20GT4%20Carlos%20Sainz/

[tigmac]

wow...that's so cool!
carlos is having a rebuild at the mo..roll on next spring ;-)

Anyway..yeah, get AWD anyday, problems or no problems :-)

[Wibren V70R]

Well i'd have to respond to this thread as a former AWD owner :D

Firstly, AWD is a great system if it works. Yes, in the rain it feels perfect, no questions about that. But you never know what happend to the AWD system with the previous owners. It is commenly known that there musn't be a larger tread difference between the front and rear tires of 2mm. This because then you don't destroy the viscous coupling of the AWD, due to overheating.

Also in 2001, volvo in the USA send out a service bulletin to the dealers about this issue. In this bulletin it also says to drive on identical tires of brand, size, construction (radial), tread pattern, load-, speed-, traction-, temperature-, and treadwear rating.

When i bought my V70R AWD i did al of the above, and still 2 years later my prop shaft was broken. And i have been really carefull on the tires. I changed the tires between front and rear every 5000 miles, always made sure that the tread difference was within the 2mm.

After the conclusion that the propshaft was broken i made a decision for myself not to spend money on the AWD system. Mostly because you don't know what's gonna get broken next. For instance, the prices are high here in Holland; propshaft is a €1000,- angle gear is €800,- and the viscous coupling is over €1500,-. So, all in all it is a lot of money if you have to replace all of it, and one day you have to.

Secondly, the reason why AWD cars behave so good on the road has nothing to do with the AWD system. The main reason is that it has a better rear axle than the FWD versions. The multilink rear axle of the AWD, which is a modified version of the 960 (normal springs and shocks instead of leaf springs) is just superb. And it is fully independant and it feels a lot better then the deltalink rear axle of a FWD 850/X70 etc.

I am currently driving with a M56 + Quaife setup, and i believe this is the best setup available today. You still get an awfull lot of grip, but none of the drawbacks of the AWD system. You get a lifetime warranty of the Quaife differential, so that is a big plus point.

But, as long if it works like it should, stick with it. Just remember that it is costly to repair anything on the AWD system.

Just my 2 cents :D

[jez.w]

[quote=jez.w;265394]

Freaky, I sold my Carlos Sainz about 2 years ago, terrrific car, number 2606

Pics here:http://s214.photobucket.com/albums/cc286/muscas/Toyota%20Celica%20GT4%20Carlos%20Sainz/


Mines No#2659 grey, i have had it 5 years or so, it was completely standard when i got it. Its now had full engine rebuild and new hybrid turbo, gearbox overhaul, ozzy decat pipe, full mongoose exhaust, tein coil overs, performance clutch, polly bushed suspension etc etc. Mechanically its just about there, i have had a few problems with the charge cooler (error 54) but its seems ok at the moment.The body needs sorting as its a bit scruffy now, i have brand new front wings for it and it needs a full respray, the front is stone chipped badly too. It did 180000miles on its original engine so it done well. Its also been a very reliable car. I will try a post a picture if your interested.

[LeeT5]

Mr Sheen...If you want an AWD R then get one. There are pro's and con's to owning an AWD R over a FWD R but having had a fwd T5 and now my AWD R, rest assured, there's no way i'm going back to a fwd car.

I knew nothing about the AWD system on my car and i have had her over 3 years now. The only thing to go wrong, so far, was a dry bearing on the propshaft. It didn't break and i fixed it myself, for FREE!! Easy to do aswell. Infact if you follow this link: http://www.vpcuk.org/forums/showthread.php?t=21654 I show you how to do it:biggrin:

Anyway, why does everyone just think that AWD is only good in the snow? Actually it's brilliant in all weather conditions but it really shines above the rest when it's damp, wet, ice, slush, snow, frost, wet leaves etc etc etc.

Of course there is more to go wrong on an AWD car, but generally speaking they don't go wrong. You just need to make sure you adhere to the tyre tread depth rule and try to keep tyre makes the same. Also make sure you change ALL the oils when they are meant to be changed and every year make sure you check your levels and top up if needed. ie, rear diff, transfer box etc, gearbox etc.

As for ppl saying autos are the worst?? What a load of rubbish. As long as you carry out the tranny flush at regular intervals then you won't have problems. Make sure your top engine mount is serviceable too as this majorly affects engine/gearbox movement and driveability of the car.

Overall i have had no problems. My car has done over 120k now and drives better than it did when i first got her nearly 4 years ago.

The bottom line...AWD will always be superior to FWD in ALL conditions!

[gazjacko]

AWD is a completely different drive to the std front wheel drive. In damp or wet conditions it is much more composed and with larger power ones 250bhp+ I'm not so sure it's slower off the line either. My old 850R was blisteringly quick on a cross country run on a road I knew well, My V70 is as fast on ANY road I'm confronted with even if I've never been there before. As for the tyre issue, yes you should rotate them (no smart answers I know they always rotate!! I'm talking front to back or clockwise!!!) but my 850 could kill off a pair of fronts in 7k!!! so I'd be on a whole set every 14k (I was on first name terms with the tyre dealer!!!!) the V70 seems much kinder to them as a whole. Auto box - I've just had a fluid change and it's smooth as ever.
to sum up I love it and wouldn't go back to 2wd in a hurry

[LeeT5]

AWD is a completely different drive to the std front wheel drive. In damp or wet conditions it is much more composed and with larger power ones 250bhp+ I'm not so sure it's slower off the line either. My old 850R was blisteringly quick on a cross country run on a road I knew well, My V70 is as fast on ANY road I'm confronted with even if I've never been there before. As for the tyre issue, yes you should rotate them (no smart answers I know they always rotate!! I'm talking front to back or clockwise!!!) but my 850 could kill off a pair of fronts in 7k!!! so I'd be on a whole set every 14k (I was on first name terms with the tyre dealer!!!!) the V70 seems much kinder to them as a whole. Auto box - I've just had a fluid change and it's smooth as ever.
to sum up I love it and wouldn't go back to 2wd in a hurry

I agree Jacko. When i had my T5 i used to be replacing the front tyres every 10k...

Now the tyre wear is even and a slow process. Happy days. Less trips to Elite for new tyres.

[tigmac]

:B_thumb:
yes, yes and yes!!!...they're a real giggle; A to B it's a quick as anything really, but the best thing for me is how such a big car seems to 'shrink' around you when you start slinging it about..
I play with the body roll, try to keep the motor spinning in the 'meaty' bit and avoid having to jam the brakes on hard wherever possible :) but it's just so much damn fun to drive!
Mechanical issues? We'll see soon enough, I'm sure: I have abused it a bit (who doesn't like the noise these things make when you gas it away from the line and the tyres are scrabbling for grip?? ) so my wallet prolly deserves a good spanking..
I'm really looking forward to getting Carlos back on the road, really I am...but the Volvo gets 'used' and used well..ours is a proper workhorse and round sunny(!) Oxfordshire it sure works well enough!

[muscas]

I agree Jacko. When i had my T5 i used to be replacing the front tyres every 10k...

Now the tyre wear is even and a slow process. Happy days. Less trips to Elite for new tyres.

Its a good point about the tyres, I have covered 80K+ miles in my R-AWD and am on number 10th tyre, i.e. I have gone through 10 tyres, and the current 4 (included in the quoted 10) are all at 6mm, so all in all it consumes less tyres than a T5, so it works out cheaper on tyres than a T5!!

[muscas]

[quote=muscas;265470]


Mines No#2659 grey, i have had it 5 years or so, it was completely standard when i got it. Its now had full engine rebuild and new hybrid turbo, gearbox overhaul, ozzy decat pipe, full mongoose exhaust, tein coil overs, performance clutch, polly bushed suspension etc etc. Mechanically its just about there, i have had a few problems with the charge cooler (error 54) but its seems ok at the moment.The body needs sorting as its a bit scruffy now, i have brand new front wings for it and it needs a full respray, the front is stone chipped badly too. It did 180000miles on its original engine so it done well. Its also been a very reliable car. I will try a post a picture if your interested.

Yes please!, please post up the pictures of your Carlos Sainz, I would very much like to see them. I will always have a soft spot for a CS. It was one of those cars I always wanted. I sold a Mitsubilshi 3000GT 4WD/4WS to buy the CS, and the CS was way way better.

[Dangerous Dave]

Its a good point about the tyres, I have covered 80K+ miles in my R-AWD and am on number 10th tyre, i.e. I have gone through 10 tyres, and the current 4 (included in the quoted 10) are all at 6mm, so all in all it consumes less tyres than a T5, so it works out cheaper on tyres than a T5!!

I have to replace mine every year. I usually get them done around this time of year, just before winter sets in. I'm looking at Vredestein Quatracs at the moment as the ones I've got on now were cheap, and are terrible.

And don't worry Tig, it'll soon hit you LOL, in fact, its probably a good idea to get the connecting sleeve replaced now (£80), as otherwise it wears the gearbox output shaft out like mine did, then its a new gearbox (£200)

[tigmac]

I'll add that to my list ;-)
and I'll get some pics of my Carlos up too...pretty good spec so far :-)

[Mr Sheen]

Thanks for the replies. I knew nothing about AWD and just wanted some opinions from people who have owned and driven them.

Now all I need to do is find a car!