Hi I'm new and looking at S60 T5 SE

[MattM]

Hi,

This weekend I'm going to look at a S60 T5 SE as I've fancied one for a while. It's the semi-auto in dark blue. Here are the specs.


VOLVO S60 2.3 T5 SE , 4 Doors, Automatic, Saloon, Petrol, 2002 52 Reg , 89,000 miles, Metallic Blue. CD Multichanger, Climate Control, Computer, Cruise control, Front armrest, Headlight washers, Folding rear seats, Heated screen, Heated seats, Leather seats, Leather upholstery, Lumbar support, Immobiliser, Multi function steering wheel, Navigation system, Power assisted steering, Rear armrest, Side airbags, Telephone, Traction control, [0]Full service history, ABS, Adjustable seats, Adjustable steering column/wheel, Air conditioning, Alloy wheels, CD, Anti theft system, Locking wheel nuts, Metallic paintwork, Remote locking, Full Service History, Foglights, Central locking, Child locks, Driver airbag, Electric windows, Electric mirrors, Colour coding - Body. Very clean example with a full history. Very rare example, Full SE Spec, Automatic / Geartronic and Satelite Navigation. 250 BHP Very Fast Car, £4,250

Anything I should pay special attention to when looking around the car and driving?

Also, what's the 0-60 time on the auto? I can't really find a definitive answer.

Thanks
Matt

[princepugh]

Usual suspects include knocking/ vague steering from worn front suspension parts, ETM problems, including poor idle and stalling; and general wear and tear with age.

Soem feedback re the auro/Geartronic system might be useful too, I know it can be problematic.

[MattM]

Thanks for the quick response.

I have a few questions. How can I tell the suspension is worn? What is ETM problems? Sorry, I'm not the most mechanically minded.

Also, when do the belts need changing on this and how much do they cost?

Matt

[princepugh]

The Phase 2 '60/70' series are known for making clearly felt/heard bumping/ knocking noises from the front suspension due to wear - not sure you'll be able to visually check for wear unless you get the car up on some ramps. Bush bearings and links are often the cause, others may be able to comment on likely costs to correct.

The 'Electronic Throttle Module' fault affected earlier Phase 2s - it's basically a mechanical/electrical part whcih wears out and causes driving problems. Again, you can't really visually inspect very easy but the symptoms may include erratic idle, stalling and quirky power delivery. If possible, find out whether or not the ETM has been replaced - some people on here may be able to check for you if you supply vehicle details?

If the car drives smoothly, pulls strong and don't knock from the front you're off to a good start! :-)

[MattM]

Reg is KG52 AXH if someone can check? Let me know if you need anymore.

What about the belts, when should they be changed and at what cost?

[princepugh]

Not sure of the timings belt interval but at 89k and 7 years you'd be wise to change it if not already done.

[cornclose]

Timing belt I think is 96,000 miles or 10 years, although Rufe may chip in and confirm.

Cost wise I recall it's not a massive job, around the £150 mark all in at an independant specialist.

The ETM issue can be a severe one. It can make the car go into limp mode and be limited to 20mph. A new ETM used to cost big £££, but recently they've dropped in price. You can get a new one fitted at a Volvo dealer with the associated software updates for around £285 all in. I know because I had mine done a few months back.

The ETM is a module just under the inlet manifold at the front of the engine. It usually has a label on the front - white is the old unit, prone to failure at ~100k miles, and a yellow label is a new unit which means it's been replaced.

Front suspension wise, knocks and twangs can be common, but it's all relatively cheap to replace. Again, Rufe can give you prices on the bits, but front droplinks are common for noises, and front wishbone bushes wear and need replacing. Droplinks are a few tens of pounds each I think, and you can get exchange wishbones ready re-bushed with better polymer bushes from a chap on here for around the £100 mark.

All in, the labour to change the front droplinks and wishbones shouldn't extend much beyond £150.

[cornclose]

Oh, and the best course of action for the geartronic gearbox is to have it flushed and oil changed using genuine Volvo transmission oil (which I think will cost close to £100 for the oil alone, again, Rufe with the prices...). Also, getting the TCM software updated can make things much nicer.

You should make sure it changes quickly and smoothly in 'D' and also in manual override, and also make sure there are no whining noises in 1st/2nd.

Also, check the transmission oil level. The dipstick is just at the top of the gearbox if you peer into the engine bay and make sure you look behind hoses etc. The dipstick is usually yellow, but may be dirty so look out for it.

As for the transmission oil, when new it is almost bright red. Most likely on a car with ~89k miles it will be a darkish brown. If its red or dark red, chances are it'll have been changed at some point. However, I don't think it's on the list of service items as the gearbox is supposed to be sealed for life (yeah right). Rufe to the rescue again for confirmation...

[Porcine_Aviator]

Thanks for the quick response.

I have a few questions. How can I tell the suspension is worn? What is ETM problems? Sorry, I'm not the most mechanically minded.

Also, when do the belts need changing on this and how much do they cost?

Matt

Hello and :welcome: The ETM is the Electronic Throttle Module, they can fail with wear and Volvo know about it. In the USA they repair them at no cost to the owner, here they offer you a small and I mean small contribution to the replacement.
The original ETMs were made by Magnetti Marelli (MM) and they failed due to the copper strips being rubbed away by the contacts that ran up and down them.

In my case Volvo said they would replace it with a new one. The company took the old one out and put in a refurbished MM one in, saying it was a new one. I told them that it couldn't be new as MM were no longer in business, so the took it off and fitted a new Bosh one.

So make sure the ETM is not an MM unit, it could be hard to find if you don't know where to look, try and get hold of a picture of the engine so you know what you are looking for. Ask the owner if it has been changed.

Another thing to check is the Mass Air Flow Sensor (MAF), they can get a deposit on the wire that sits in the tube. There are people on eBat selling spray cleaners. Save your money and use WD40 if it gives you problems. Just take it off, it's the tube after the air filter box with the wires going into it. Don't touch the inside, just spray it with WD40 and then put it back together.

A quick way to check your shocks is to push down hard on the corner of the car, if it comes back up and stops it's okay, if it bounces they need looking at.

If you can get underneath, look for oil leaks, turn the steering wheel hard over to the right and then check the brake lines for leaks or cracks, do the same on the other side. Pull up the hand brake and see how far up it comes, if it clicks up a long way it could be excessive wear on the rear hand brake drum. If you can, check the gaiters on the ball joints and look for any signs of wear in the steering rack, put some rubber gloves on before you get under and get hold of the steering rack and see if it moves up and down.

This might sound stupid, but check all the lights work, ask when the cam belt was changed last.

Ask if it has a full service history and ask to see it before you agree to anything.

Look at it's past MOTs and emissions.

Listen to the engine and see if it has knocks down low, or sharp taps at the top both can show signs of wear.

See if it smokes, if it's the first time it has been started on the day you go and look at it, see if you can smell a faint whiff of rotten eggs, if you can then the cat is working.

Right that should keep you going for a while, but I'm sure there are other members who will come up with even more advice. :B_censore

[cornclose]

This is what you're looking for to find the ETM (http://home.comcast.net/~donwillson/tech_info.html).

[MattM]

Wow thanks guys really helpful. Looks like I will have my work cut out. The car is at an independent garage and he said it's got a years MOT, which is reassuring. I'm most concerned about the cambelt being done, this will be my first thing to check. Hopefully I can take it for a nice test drive and see how well the auto gear box works and if there's any untoward noises. It comes with full service history which indicates to me a well looked after car, and at this mileage I wouldn't consider anything less than a full history.

I've read about these being chipped to produce close to 300bhp, how much does this cost and is it recommended on a high mileage car?

Thanks
Matt

[cornclose]

No problems at all having it chipped/remapped at that mileage, providing everything else is A1. I'm up to 97,000 miles now with the RICA 310 map, which I put on the car (in A1 condition of course...) at about 85,000.

Really, these cars with ~100k miles on them should not be considered 'high mileage' at all. Most, if looked after and service properly/regularly are easily capable of 200k+ without issue.

[dave stew]

Oh, and the best course of action for the geartronic gearbox is to have it flushed and oil changed using genuine Volvo transmission oil (which I think will cost close to £100 for the oil alone, again, Rufe with the prices...). Also, getting the TCM software updated can make things much nicer.

You should make sure it changes quickly and smoothly in 'D' and also in manual override, and also make sure there are no whining noises in 1st/2nd.

Also, check the transmission oil level. The dipstick is just at the top of the gearbox if you peer into the engine bay and make sure you look behind hoses etc. The dipstick is usually yellow, but may be dirty so look out for it.

As for the transmission oil, when new it is almost bright red. Most likely on a car with ~89k miles it will be a darkish brown. If its red or dark red, chances are it'll have been changed at some point. However, I don't think it's on the list of service items as the gearbox is supposed to be sealed for life (yeah right). Rufe to the rescue again for confirmation...

Or get a manual...:hidesbehi

[MattM]

No problems at all having it chipped/remapped at that mileage, providing everything else is A1. I'm up to 97,000 miles now with the RICA 310 map, which I put on the car (in A1 condition of course...) at about 85,000.

Really, these cars with ~100k miles on them should not be considered 'high mileage' at all. Most, if looked after and service properly/regularly are easily capable of 200k+ without issue.

How much does one of these remaps cost?

[cornclose]

Or get a manual...:hidesbehi

If you can find one...

[cornclose]

How much does one of these remaps cost?

Depends how you have it delivered to the car. I use a PPC unit which allows me to program the car and remove the map (back to standard) as and when I want. It also allows me to get RICA to tweak the map to my liking (which they are doing as we speak). All in this will cost about £500.

You can get equally good remaps for around the £350 mark from a company called 'Autologic'. A few members on here have had these and speak highly of them.

Another advantage of having a programming device of your own is you can put the map back on when you leave a Volvo dealer after they wipe it and return it to standard. I've had to put it back on mine a few times. If I'd had to book it back into the garage that did it (i.e. if I didn't have the PPC) then it would soon become quite annoying.

[MattM]

So if the ETM is still original could I request the garage have it changed or should I ask for a discount and get it done myself?

[cornclose]

Asking price minus £285 at least...

[dave stew]

If you can find one...

Very true.

[dave stew]

Asking price minus £285 at least...

My understanding with ETMs is that the Magnetti Marelli units are the defective ones and Bosch equipped cars don't tend to suffer as much. My classic V70 T5 had two MM throttle bodies, but my current old tank is on its original Bosch and when I quoted the reg number to Volvo they confirmed that mine was unaffected.

[MattM]

So how do you rate these engines with the semi auto? I haven't been able to find a definitive 0-60 time as most vary between 6.6 and 7.

[cornclose]

Not sure/don't care. With my current remap (and other mods .. hehe) it's quite fast, but never quite fast enough for my liking.

I must get around to timing it at some point. I have the drag-strip software on a laptop in the car...

[MattM]

So with the ETM, I need to make sure it's a yellow label otherwise it needs to be changed to the Bosch?

[WoodyWP]

[QUOTE=cornclose;261816]Timing belt I think is 96,000 miles or 10 years, although Rufe may chip in and confirm.

Yep, it is 96,000 miles as I have just had mine done (well a bit ago) and c£150 should see you right.

The gearbox flush seems to be strange subject as my local indie said not to do it unless you have any issues and theres plenty on here that says either way so not sure what's best.

As someone else said check the lights and all the electrial bits, seats, mirrors, windows and don't forget the heated bits, seats and mirrors.

[cornclose]

Check everything. I guess that goes without saying, but check it. Stereo, CD, SatNav, Phone, etc. Make sure all windows go all the way down and up a number of times, smoothly etc. Make sure central locking locks/unlocks all doors, boot, fuel flap etc.

Usual stuff.

[MattM]

Thanks. Do you think the price is OK going by the ad?

[cornclose]

Looks nice enough, check it against parkers.co.uk etc.

[RobbieH]

Not sure/don't care. With my current remap (and other mods .. hehe) it's quite fast, but never quite fast enough for my liking.

I must get around to timing it at some point. I have the drag-strip software on a laptop in the car...

On a private road of course...........:cop:

[cornclose]

Of course...

[Baj]

I thought the T5s were less than 250BHP.

My rear ARB needed changing at 110k which was about £130.
Some aparently have issues with the door locks which are quite costly.

Check the lights on the dash come on and push the button on the end of the left stalk to make sure it says 0 messages.

Note that the rear view is crap and the car will roll about 2" when you apply the handbrake. Both standard features.

[cornclose]

AFAIK, all phase 2 T5's are 250bhp between 2000 and 2005.

[Baj]

I would just like to add I know of a nice 2.4T for sale in a lovely shade of pearl metallic slate grey.

[MattM]

So I went to see the car yesterday and took it out for a test drive. The engine was very smooth and sounded great, no untoward noises. The car has a full service history, however the seller agreed to do a fresh service and change the belts before I picked it up. It has a years MOT which had no advisories. Pirelli P6000 tires all round with plenty of life left in them, 1 owner from new.

There were a couple bad points, the seller informed me that some of the buttons on the steering wheel didn't work, and that he was ordering in some parts to fix it. The satnav wouldn't turn on/pop up which he suspected was linked to the issue with the steering wheel, again this will be fixed before collection. Lastly the lid over the cup holders had one of it's arms snapped, which again is being replaced.

The condition of the car is very good for it's age, the leather is like new. There's a few scratches on the car but the seller will polish them out before collection.

One thing I noticed about the drive is you don't really get a sense of speed. I floored it in auto and it went fast, and held the revs all the way to the red line, by which time I had to back off because of the speed.

So I will be picking this up on Wednesday and I'll get some more pictures up then. Here's the a photo of it at the seller's.

http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/8628/s60t.png

[cornclose]

Congratulations. Looks like a nice motor. As long as he does all the things you spotted, and the belts aswell, I think you got a bargain.

[MattM]

Thanks, can't wait to pick it up.

[princepugh]

First thing I noticed about the Phase 2 V70 compared to the Phase 1 was just how smooth and effortless things had become - the sense of speed is just completely different.

Different animal when chipped though ;-)

[MattM]

I noticed that on full lock the tires were rubbing or at least it sounded that way. Any ideas?

[cornclose]

Yes. Either the wrong size tyres/wheels are fitted, or more likely, the lock stops attached to the wishbones are worn.

Once you know the tyre sizes etc, you can get a new set of stops from Volvo for around the £20 mark. Dead easy to fit, just two bolts each if I recall...

[MattM]

Quick question. When I turn the car on, the RTI pops up, how do I make it go back down without using the remote? Thanks.

[cornclose]

No definate idea on that one I'm affraid. Mine hasn't got it. However, I do recall a switch somewhere on one of the steering column stalks. Perhaps the left hand side ?

[MattM]

I found it in the satnav menu.

Regarding the power delivery, when does the turbo kick in rpm wise? The 'kick-down' in auto is a strange thing to get used to, seems like a small delay before it drops a gear and powers through the gears.

[cornclose]

Turbo doesn't boost anywhere near soon enough in standard guise, IMO. That's what a remap is for. If I recall, when standard, you don't get any useful boost below about 3500 rpm and it's not fully on song until probably 4500. From what I remember...

All I can say about the auto box (before Dave comes along to poo poo it) is to get used to driving enthusiastically using the manual override (tiptronic). Leave the 'D' mode for crawling in traffic...

[The Flying Moose]

I noticed that on full lock the tires were rubbing or at least it sounded that way. Any ideas?

This was an issue on all SE models as the suspension was lowered fractionally and this caused rubbing, my arches are terrible for it you can see where it has worn if you lock out the wheels. Dont believe there is a fix to be honest or at least volvo told me there wasnt. Just dont quite use full lock lol

[MattM]

Turbo doesn't boost anywhere near soon enough in standard guise, IMO. That's what a remap is for. If I recall, when standard, you don't get any useful boost below about 3500 rpm and it's not fully on song until probably 4500. From what I remember...

All I can say about the auto box (before Dave comes along to poo poo it) is to get used to driving enthusiastically using the manual override (tiptronic). Leave the 'D' mode for crawling in traffic...

I did just that yesterday, the triptronic is a little strange to get used to coming from a manual, any tips for using it? I floored it in 3rd and like you said around 3.5k-4.5k it started to deliver the power. Is this improved with a remap/chip?

[princepugh]

My Phase 2 V70 is manual, however, with a remap the turbo starts to spool around 2000rpm with a noticeable surge at 2500 rpm - a big improvement over standard as you can ride the mid range torque much more.

[cornclose]

Yes, it will be while before you get used to it, but it's the best of both worlds.

It's difficult to quantify the difference between a standard and remapped car. For a start, each remap is different, and in my case, as I've had the map tweaked to suit my tastes, it's probably different to other cars of the same type running the 'same' RICA map.

I start to get boost* at about 2000 rpm, and can easily reach 18 PSI (the most I've every seen on my car, about 1.25 bar) by 2750-3000 rpm. A stock T5 will boost to 10 PSI (0.68 bar), but, as you've seen, not until the 3500-4000 rpm mark.

The net result is that it feels like I'm driving through BLACK TREACLE when I don't have the map on.

* I define Boost as a positive pressure in the manifold. i.e. when I get a figure above 0. Therefore in no-boost conditions the pressure in the manifold is obviously negative, but even then the turbo is spooling and providing some pressure to offset the vacuum.

[princepugh]

Yes, I probably should have avoided using the term 'spool' as the boost threshold is likely less than 2k but similar to Cornclose, on mine you start to see and feel +ve pressure at around the 2k rpm mark.

[MattM]

How can I be sure my engine is out putting all 250bhp? Thanks.