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View Full Version : V40 no start, has spark, has fuel...!!!



Al115
Tuesday 22nd September 2009, 17:39
My parents report that their 1999 2.0T V40 has died!

I haven't got to it yet, but the recovery guy reports fuel pressure at the rail, and also spark at the coils (and he's had all of the plugs out as well) - and it cranks and cranks but won't run. Fluids normal...

Sounds really odd to me. I'll get to the car tonight, but any ideas??? :)

Justin
Tuesday 22nd September 2009, 19:55
Immobiliser it sounds like, i've heard of a few that have had a strop and caused those symptoms.

HTH :)

Al115
Tuesday 22nd September 2009, 20:07
AGH that'd be a pain.

Just got home so going out to look!!!

daveforber
Tuesday 22nd September 2009, 20:19
That or fuel pressure regulator. Give it a touch of gas after it's been cranking for about 20 seconds and see if it wants to start. A good ol' stink of fuel and I reckon that'd be the issue.

Johnny5
Tuesday 22nd September 2009, 21:41
Take a can of "start ya b**tard" with ya..... lol (Easy start) ;)

Al115
Tuesday 22nd September 2009, 22:38
Right. Had a good old session troubleshooting tonight. Still not working though :(

Things I've checked:

Fuel pressure at the rail - there is some. Fuel pressure regulator diaphragm holds vacuum. Fuel pump runs and isn't clogged up (I've had it out of the tank). Fuel filter is new and on the right way. Yes there is fuel in the tank :)
Spark checked under cranking, spark plugs changed, coils swapped round. Crank sensor swapped with another one.
Carb cleaner sprayed into the throttle body and crank... /makes no difference/... not a sausage.
Immobiliser light goes out when the key goes in. Tried both keys.


Really confusing me now. There is fuel (and enough BA BA BOOM carb cleaner to launch it into space...), there is spark under cranking... but it really isn't having it!

What else should I try?...

Justin
Tuesday 22nd September 2009, 22:59
Whip the ecu out and have a look at the board, you never know, it will also reset the system.

Al115
Tuesday 22nd September 2009, 23:03
Thanks mate. I shall do that tomorrow. So much fun to get at, those -40 ECUs with their tamperproof brackets :D

LeeT5
Wednesday 23rd September 2009, 01:09
My parents report that their 1999 2.0T V40 has died!

I haven't got to it yet, but the recovery guy reports fuel pressure at the rail, and also spark at the coils (and he's had all of the plugs out as well) - and it cranks and cranks but won't run. Fluids normal...

Sounds really odd to me. I'll get to the car tonight, but any ideas??? :)

Hi mate. Have you got firstly a 12v live at the injectors and secondly 'Switching'?? Use a multimeter on Hz or a 'Noid' light to test. You can have a good spark and fuel but without the above you got no chance. Did the car 'cut out, non start' or just 'non start' (ie on the driveway)?

LeeT5
Wednesday 23rd September 2009, 01:15
Immobiliser it sounds like, i've heard of a few that have had a strop and caused those symptoms.

HTH :)

I do believe if the immobilisor is faulty then you won't get fuel.

Also, just because you have fuel in the rail, doesn't mean you have fuel out the injectors. You need to check the 'Amp draw' on the fuel pump fuse with an amp clamp. Expect to see 12v and between 3-6 amps either on prime or crank. If it's less, then the fuel pump is open circuit or they have run out of fuel - (faulty gauge). If it's more then the fuel pump is seized.

LeeT5
Wednesday 23rd September 2009, 01:19
Whip the ecu out and have a look at the board, you never know, it will also reset the system.

Last resort!!! Start with the simple stuff.

Alastair...have you checked ALL the fuses??

LeeT5
Wednesday 23rd September 2009, 01:26
...oh yeah, one more thing. Stop using carb cleaner and easy start. One tiny burst is all you need believe me. If it doesn't start then it 'aint gonna! If you keep using it you will cause serious damage to the valve seats and pistons. Not only that, make sure if you do use it that you bypass the MASS meter. Ie, disconnect the intake and squirt the stuff in 'post' MASS meter. If you don't and the car backfires...(very common) then you will blow your MASS meter to smithereens. Don't say i didn't warn you!

;)

Al115
Wednesday 23rd September 2009, 08:51
Lee - thanks VERY much for all the advice. Really appreciated.

The car didn't cut out, it drove to Tescos normally, was parked up, and then refused to restart an hour later.

I have visually checked fuel in the tank so I know the gauge is not faulty.

Carb cleaner was going in directly to the throttle body so but yes I was probably using too much!

I have some noid lights so will plug them in and see if the injectors are doing their stuff. Also will check all fuses and fuel pump draw.

Again thanks for taking the time to post up your advice... :)

Al115
Wednesday 23rd September 2009, 09:53
Had a few mins for some very quick checks this morning...


All important fuses look fine (engine fuse in the passenger compartment, main fuses under the bonnet).
Noid light pulses on Injector #1 when engine cranked.
ECU disconnected - no change to car cranking - and left for a few hours...


Haven't been able to check fuel pump current yet.

Tomcat
Wednesday 23rd September 2009, 10:01
If all else fails Al, then a can of petrol and a box of matches usually fixes everything....:firedevil

When you say you've got a spark at the plugs, is it a good spark or just a spark???.. (not trying to teach you how to suck eggs, but if it's not enough of a spark it won't help). Is it cranking fast enough?, is it possible to check the fault codes?..

Al115
Wednesday 23rd September 2009, 11:48
Hi mate. It's cranking plenty fast and we keep the battery topped up overnight while we are messing with the car. The spark doesn't look award-winning, but it's definitely there on each coil pair. I'd have thought that if one coil was failing then we'd still get two cylinders working (as the 40s have two coils and two slave leads - wasted spark) - it'd be odd for both coils to fail at the same time. As it is we get no cylinders firing at all! Oddness.

Al115
Wednesday 23rd September 2009, 12:02
Plugged the ECU back in and no joy - so "resetting" didn't help. Shame.

However I've noticed another odd thing that might be a useful clue...

The engine temp as reported by the infocentre is behaving strangely. Sometimes when I turn on the ignition, it runs up from 40 to STOP and flashes red. Then, other times, it's perfectly normal and just displays "COLD" as it should. If I disconnect the sensor, the engine cooling fan runs all the time (normal). Thing is, I swapped the sensor out for one off my old T4 about a month ago, as the previous sensor was also behaving oddly (readings ran very high, and then I got the DTC code about CTS circuit high or something). So maybe the fault was not with the sensor at all, and I didn't manage to fix it...

I can't read the codes as my code reader is in my other car (bah) but now I'm thinking that the fault might lie with the coolant temp sensor wiring, or with the ECU? As far as I know there's nothing else in the equation (apart from the dreaded infocentre, and I doubt that would stop the car running if it failed).

This is doing my chewy!!!!

:D :D :D

Mrs_PA
Wednesday 23rd September 2009, 12:12
Blocked air filter?

Lack of air at the spark would stop it firing.

Air Mass Meter?

Al115
Wednesday 23rd September 2009, 12:26
Thanks for the suggestions. AFAIK even a failed MAF shouldn't stop it running... and I've had the intake hose off at the throttle body and that doesn't help either! :(

Mrs_PA
Wednesday 23rd September 2009, 12:38
I know you kept the battery topped up, but have you checked what it is putting out? (I know, I'm clutching at straws).

BTW, a failed MAF stopped the dreaded Christine running, although it had different symptoms - it fired but wouldn't stay running, but I just thought it was worth a shout as it's easy to remove.

Al115
Wednesday 23rd September 2009, 12:54
Thanks mate. I have had a meter on the battery both when static and when cranking and it looks pretty normal. I've also tried jumping the car from another when cranking just in case... makes no difference :(

MAF... I think I might have a spare somewhere... but it would have thrown a fault code I think.

Confused, me!

Mrs_PA
Wednesday 23rd September 2009, 13:36
MAF... I think I might have a spare somewhere... but it would have thrown a fault code I think.



It doesn't always throw a fault. Just remove it. It won't run well without one, but if it fires up, you know where to look.

If everything else is OK, I would suspect a sensor or sensor connections somewhere.

Johnny5
Wednesday 23rd September 2009, 20:22
hiya. How are u checking for a spark? Im my past experience if the spark doesnt look bright blue when tested out of the cylinder then it can dissapear totally when under compression! Also if u have a faulty engine temp sensor ur ecu could think that the engine is hot and therefore not inject enuf fuel! P.s are the plugs wet with unburnt fuel after cranking?

Johnny5
Wednesday 23rd September 2009, 20:25
also try unplugging the temp sensor, the ecu should then revirt to a "base" value for eng temp. Alowing u to start the engine

Al115
Wednesday 23rd September 2009, 21:14
hiya. How are u checking for a spark? Im my past experience if the spark doesnt look bright blue when tested out of the cylinder then it can dissapear totally when under compression! Also if u have a faulty engine temp sensor ur ecu could think that the engine is hot and therefore not inject enuf fuel! P.s are the plugs wet with unburnt fuel after cranking?

Going for the amateur method of laying the plug on the top of the engine and cranking :)

Sparks don't look super-strong it has to be said, but I can't believe that both coils have suddenly reached end-of-life... though I'd really like to borrow a couple to test :D

Plugs aren't wet with fuel after cranking.

Al115
Wednesday 23rd September 2009, 21:14
also try unplugging the temp sensor, the ecu should then revirt to a "base" value for eng temp. Alowing u to start the engine

No start :( :( :( worth a try though, anything is at this point! Cheers.

nellysv70
Wednesday 23rd September 2009, 21:36
if all else fails put a match to it lol i would say its the ecu but im no machanic it could also be your immob might be deactivating the light but not the system

Al115
Wednesday 23rd September 2009, 21:38
It has crossed my mind... the "gallon and a match" approach...! :D

Johnny5
Wednesday 23rd September 2009, 21:41
If the plugs are not wet with fuel (also smell the exhaust) then its not injecting enough fuel..... Did you say that you had pushed in the end of the shrader valve on the fuel rail? to check if theres fuel pressure? also just a thought thats outside the box.... Could the cambelt have jumped a tooth or 2? Maybe worth popping the cover off and checking the belt!
J5

Johnny5
Wednesday 23rd September 2009, 21:42
if all else fails put a match to it lol i would say its the ecu but im no machanic it could also be your immob might be deactivating the light but not the system

Hey nelly.... Brighton here 2 m8y!

Johnny5
Wednesday 23rd September 2009, 21:45
Hey nelly.... Brighton here 2 m8y!

Im sure ive seen ur (GAWJUS) motor near here..... If you hail from the eastern side of brighton then i defo have! And im sure i gave ya a blast of me pipework ;) the last time i saw you, we will have to have a meetup, cos i think u live pretty close to me! lol

Al115
Wednesday 23rd September 2009, 21:58
You need to check the 'Amp draw' on the fuel pump fuse with an amp clamp. Expect to see 12v and between 3-6 amps either on prime or crank. If it's less, then the fuel pump is open circuit or they have run out of fuel - (faulty gauge). If it's more then the fuel pump is seized.

Peaks at 8A when the ignition switch is turned to position 2, then a steady 6.5 to 6.8 while priming. Does this tell us anything useful?... :)

Al115
Wednesday 23rd September 2009, 22:08
If the plugs are not wet with fuel (also smell the exhaust) then its not injecting enough fuel..... Did you say that you had pushed in the end of the shrader valve on the fuel rail? to check if theres fuel pressure? also just a thought thats outside the box.... Could the cambelt have jumped a tooth or 2? Maybe worth popping the cover off and checking the belt!
J5

Yep, I've prodded the Schrader valve and there's definitely a reasonable amount of fuel... I can't tell if it's 3 bar or not, but the easy-start should have ruled that out as a problem.

I even took the cambelt cover off to check for the worst - fortunately it looks fine!!! :)

readview
Thursday 24th September 2009, 09:13
Hi Alistair,there are two problems that can cause this set of symptoms that we have come across,one is what we call"lost compression syndrome",basically the rings stick into the pistons for no good reason and this can occur anytime,it does not seem to matter whether the car is left five minutes or five days,there is no logical pattern.The giveaway is that the engine turns over quicker than normal and sounds like the belt has broken.(you could compression test to be 100%)The cure is a good quality engine flush and wind it over for ages until it starts.You will need a fully charged battery and possibly a booster pack as well as this can take some time.It is important not to touch the gas pedal during winding over.The car will slowly pick up on one cylinder,then two and so on.Dont touch the gas until it is running on all four and then only gently or you will be back to stage one.Change the oil and filter when it's had a good half hours running.We have had this on 850's,960's and the occasional S40.
The other possibility is a devious one and sounds stupid but please trust me it's for real,a duff starter motor.I know the car is cranking fine but we have had quite a few cars where the starter has gone faulty in such a way that under cranking it is drawing too much current and denies the injectors and sometimes the plugs enough juice to do the job.Most common giveaway is a small cough (attempt to fire) just as the key is released after cranking,this is because as the starter is denied juice the motor is still rotating and the proper signal gets through just as the engine stops turning.To prove this problem (or rule it out) tow the car and try to start it in gear.If it starts then replace the starter motor.
hope this helps,Adam.

Al115
Thursday 24th September 2009, 14:32
Thanks VERY much Adam for the suggestions. Some really good ideas there!!!

I think the first scenario is unlikely as the car does not crank like it has a broken belt, but normally. I checked the compressions (cold engine, dry) and they were very low though:

Cylinder - Bar (now) - Bar (last time - Apr 2007)
1 - 8.8 - 14.5
2 - 10.5 - 14.8
3 - 12.5 - 14.5
4 - 9.0 - 14.9


which isn't a great sign I guess.

The starter possibility is another good one, however there is none of the "cough" or "nearly starting when stopping cranking" that you mention. It just stops absolutely dead when you release the key - "deader" than when it used to work, and you cranked it but not enough to start, if you know what I mean.

Still thinking on this one. Hope I haven't missed anything obvious!!!

MrMopp
Thursday 24th September 2009, 14:48
Slipped timing belt and bent valves ?

If the problem was purely low compression then easy start would have got it going !

Al115
Thursday 24th September 2009, 14:53
How could I check that? I checked the belt visually and couldn't see anything amiss...?

LeeT5
Thursday 24th September 2009, 17:49
Hi again. Well this is causing some confusion isn't it?

Firstly m8, rule out ECU. If you have switching (injector pulse) then you have both 12v live and crank signal (rpm) from the crank sensor, via the ECU.

We know you have a spark and we know you got fuel. The amp draw reading you got on prime and crank (earlier post) is normal m8! So that rules out fuel pump.

One thing that does concern me...compression! 130psi is too low m8. I would expect to see 150psi minimum (180 - 240psi wet is normal).

As for the starter motor issue that someone else mentioned...never heard that one before in the 19 years i've been in the trade!

You can test the starter motor very simply without undoing anything m8.

Stick your amp clamp around the earth cable on the battery and crank her over. Once the initial inertia is overcome, the reading should stabilise at between 150 - 250 amps. This is normal for a petrol engine. If you get anything higher then you will need to replace the starter. Before you do this thou, make sure you 'volt drop' the starter circuit to rule out any high resistance ie poor earth connections.

So...you need to figure out the loss of compression before you go any further. Do yourself a favour and check the compression with a squirt of engine oil in each cylinder. This will simulate a lubricated cylinder as constant cranking with the injectors switching will just borewash you engine and cause very low compression. Pull the Fuel pump fuse so no fuel is injected m8, otherwise you will be back to square one. I will PM you my number so you can ring me, otherwise your gonna be here all week waiting for replies.

My guess is the car is simply flooded and has lost compression. If you have a spark, switching and fuel then the car should start and nothing but nothing will stop it. However...a weak spark will cause flood situation in a matter of seconds, as will a faulty coolant temperature sensor. Then couple that with the large amounts of fuel being injected on crank and you will quickly borewash the cylinders and loose compression and make the situation worse.

To overcome a borewash you will need to:

1. Remove fuel pump fuse to prevent further fuel injection.
2. Have a boost pack or fast charger to hand to charge and prevent vehicle battery discharging.
3. Remove plugs, clean and heat up on a heater.
4. Crank engine to expell excess fuel via spark plug ports.
4a. Continue cranking (10 seconds maximum - don't cook the starter) 20 second intervals until engine note audibly changes and sounds normal. This could take a few minutes.
5. Refit (warm or hot plugs) ensuring correct gaps.
6. Connect leads etc.
7. Refit fuel pump fuse and turn ign on (do not crank). Do this 3 times to prime fuel circuit.
8. Crank vehicle (do not touch throttle)

Vehicle should start, if not...stop cranking. Remove fuel pump fuse and crank again. regain compression and replace fuse. Crank again. Hopefully she will start.

Al115
Thursday 24th September 2009, 18:42
You're a legend mate. Thanks so much for typing all that in!!!

I will try tomorrow. :) :) :)

daveforber
Thursday 24th September 2009, 20:11
I just had a thought (that's probably as irrelevant as my first, but no matter, it won't hurt). I had this once on a Citroen diesel (it was before I saw the light). It cranked and cranked and just wouldn't start. Turned out to be the head gasket. Obviously there were earlier symptoms like running hot, but I didn't realise what that was at the time.

The AA chap who popped over reckoned he could test it by removing the radiator cap and cranking. It spat water high into the air (can't remember the reasoning - probably something to do with pistons and water).

Worth a look?

readview
Saturday 26th September 2009, 13:54
Hi,have you managed to get the better of the dead car yet Al ?

CONDYBOY
Sunday 27th September 2009, 02:05
AL? Any joy yet?
If the plugs are dry then surely that points to the injectors?

Nice thread! never heard of rings sticking in the pistons before. But I live and learn.
I had this once on my mates £££££roen and it turned out to be a burnt out diode in the ecu, couldn't get a fault code without the engine running so I bridged the ecu diode with a piece of paperclip, (Yes butchery I know!) took the car to a stealer and got no codes at all. the car was still running when my mate sold it on eight months later.

LeeT5
Sunday 27th September 2009, 22:32
I just had a thought (that's probably as irrelevant as my first, but no matter, it won't hurt). I had this once on a Citroen diesel (it was before I saw the light). It cranked and cranked and just wouldn't start. Turned out to be the head gasket. Obviously there were earlier symptoms like running hot, but I didn't realise what that was at the time.

The AA chap who popped over reckoned he could test it by removing the radiator cap and cranking. It spat water high into the air (can't remember the reasoning - probably something to do with pistons and water).

Worth a look?

That's not a proper test but pretty conclusive. The reason the water spouts out the expansion/header tank is because of pressure coming from the engine cylinders via a leaking headgasket! If your car does this then it's a waste of time carrying out any tests because your headgasket is definately leaking.

LeeT5
Sunday 27th September 2009, 22:35
never heard of rings sticking in the pistons before.

Err that's called a seized engine!! :wink: I don't think Al has this problem otherwise i think he would know.

readview
Monday 28th September 2009, 11:03
I appreciate that this is not a common issue but like yourself i have been in the trade 19 years and this problem does exist as does the starter motor issue that you were unfamiliar with.Sticky rings seem to be most common on 960's but we have had it on 850's and the odd 40 series.The starter one may be hard to believe,it was for us when we first came across it,but thats the thing about our job,no matter how long youv'e been doing it you never stop learning.
Adam.










Err that's called a seized engine!! :wink: I don't think Al has this problem otherwise i think he would know.

Al115
Monday 28th September 2009, 16:21
Thanks to everyone for their time contributing to date...

I haven't had any luck with any of the suggestions above... incredible, eh! Have fitted replacement coils/leads, checked that the engine isn't full of fuel, the rings aren't seized, etc... the lot!

I think I'll have to have a word with Stuart @ SWs and see about taking the car down to him, as I'm reaching the limit of my abilities... bah! :(

Cheers all.

LeeT5
Monday 28th September 2009, 18:39
I appreciate that this is not a common issue but like yourself i have been in the trade 19 years and this problem does exist as does the starter motor issue that you were unfamiliar with.Sticky rings seem to be most common on 960's but we have had it on 850's and the odd 40 series.The starter one may be hard to believe,it was for us when we first came across it,but thats the thing about our job,no matter how long youv'e been doing it you never stop learning.
Adam.

I think you maybe confusing 'sticking rings' with 'sticking hydraulic lifters'??
You cannot possibly have a 'sticking piston ring', else when you crank the engine over it would either unstick (immediately) or fracture! Put simply, if the engine is cranking over then it most definately is NOT 'sticking rings'!

However, sticking hydraulic lifters is another thing all together. Early pre '95 - 5 cylinder engines fitted to all the 850 range suffered with sticking lifters. I know because one of my 850's 2.5 20v engine did just that. It would crank and not start. All that had happened was a couple of the hydraulic lifters had got stuck 'up' (carbon build up) and therefore instantly causing a no compression situation because the valves would just open up when the pressure built up and thus you wouldn't be able to start the car. Only way to resolve it was WOT and crank till she finally built compression as the lifters 'un stuck' themselves.

This problem was rectified on ALL post '95 engines.

Fact - speak to Volvo if you don't believe me.

Ask any sound mechanic/technician and they will all tell you that you cannot have a sticking ring simply because they are recessed into the piston and when it moves up and down so does the rings. If they seize then you would know about it and the engine would be boloxed.

CONDYBOY
Tuesday 29th September 2009, 21:47
Err that's called a seized engine!! :wink: I don't think Al has this problem otherwise i think he would know.

Sorry mate, a siezed engine is the rings sticking to the bore! we're talking about the rings sticking inside the grooves in the piston which would stop them sealing against the bore and cause a loss of pressure, the engine would turn more freely in this case!

LeeT5
Wednesday 30th September 2009, 01:43
Sorry mate, a siezed engine is the rings sticking to the bore! we're talking about the rings sticking inside the grooves in the piston which would stop them sealing against the bore and cause a loss of pressure, the engine would turn more freely in this case!

Whilst i understand exactly what your saying, please explain to me just how this is possible being as the piston rings are under constant 'outwards' tension. They are sprung and therefore need to be compressed in order to slide the piston and rings inside the bore when initially fitting. I cannot see how the rings would suddenly seize and clamp themselves tight around the piston when they are in constant contact and scrapping the bore walls? Indeed it may be possible for the rings to change shape, but the way they are manufactured, even this seems far fetched. Piston rings are designed to cope with extreme heat, even more so than the pistons themselves due to the immense heat and strain they are under due to frictional forces, forces involved on the thrust side of the piston etc. The only time odd things with engines manifest themselves are under extreme conditions. Mainly caused by lack of maintenance or none what so ever!

Are you suggesting that Al's parents car is not maintained? I don't think you are kind sir, so please do tell all how the piston rings seize tight on the pistons and effectively shrink? This would also cause a problem otherwise known in the trade as 'piston slap'. If the rings stop doing their job then the pistons (not being an interference fit) will be free to slap, grind and smash the piston bores to destruction!!

I'm all ears??:parhmph:

LeeT5
Wednesday 30th September 2009, 01:47
Thanks to everyone for their time contributing to date...

I haven't had any luck with any of the suggestions above... incredible, eh! Have fitted replacement coils/leads, checked that the engine isn't full of fuel, the rings aren't seized, etc... the lot!

I think I'll have to have a word with Stuart @ SWs and see about taking the car down to him, as I'm reaching the limit of my abilities... bah! :(

Cheers all.

I will be keen to find out the reason for your woes. Am seeing Stuart myself soon so will find out from the horses mouth! :bud:

readview
Wednesday 30th September 2009, 10:06
We have had the sticking lifters problem plenty of times,it causes a loud tapping noise from the top end as the cam rotates and is best cured by a good engine flush and oil change.We have had it on most models up to '97.
With reference to checking with volvo,i dont feel the need as my principal mechanic was a main agent mastertec and mot tester for 22 years.I joined this thread in an attempt to help someone out of a problem which afaik is the point of the forum,wasn't quite expecting to find myself attracting sarcastic critisism and suggestions that i should consult a "sound mechanic".We have been trading for 19 years and survive on reputation alone,we have a 99.55% feedback rating on the good garage scheme and are on the voc list of recommended independents.Seeing as you are evidently superior in knowledge to myself and maidstone is not far from london might i suggest that you gather your spanners and pop round and fix the problem car.I'll pay the petrol costs.










I think you maybe confusing 'sticking rings' with 'sticking hydraulic lifters'??
You cannot possibly have a 'sticking piston ring', else when you crank the engine over it would either unstick (immediately) or fracture! Put simply, if the engine is cranking over then it most definately is NOT 'sticking rings'!

However, sticking hydraulic lifters is another thing all together. Early pre '95 - 5 cylinder engines fitted to all the 850 range suffered with sticking lifters. I know because one of my 850's 2.5 20v engine did just that. It would crank and not start. All that had happened was a couple of the hydraulic lifters had got stuck 'up' (carbon build up) and therefore instantly causing a no compression situation because the valves would just open up when the pressure built up and thus you wouldn't be able to start the car. Only way to resolve it was WOT and crank till she finally built compression as the lifters 'un stuck' themselves.

This problem was rectified on ALL post '95 engines.

Fact - speak to Volvo if you don't believe me.

Ask any sound mechanic/technician and they will all tell you that you cannot have a sticking ring simply because they are recessed into the piston and when it moves up and down so does the rings. If they seize then you would know about it and the engine would be boloxed.

Al115
Wednesday 30th September 2009, 10:30
Come on guys, I've been really cheered up by all the offers of help and advice, even if the car still isn't working yet :) Please don't let the topic degenerate into a sarcasm competition / slanging match, there's no need for it. Plus I don't want to have to lock my own thread :D

Again, thanks to all for the suggestions and hopefully we'll get it sorted out soon!

readview
Wednesday 30th September 2009, 11:11
No problems here Al,i was only trying to help.Just felt obliged to reply as some of the comments rubbed me up the wrong way.If you discover a faulty bit let me know,i'll most likely have one lying around somewhere.










Come on guys, I've been really cheered up by all the offers of help and advice, even if the car still isn't working yet :) Please don't let the topic degenerate into a sarcasm competition / slanging match, there's no need for it. Plus I don't want to have to lock my own thread :D

Again, thanks to all for the suggestions and hopefully we'll get it sorted out soon!

LeeT5
Wednesday 30th September 2009, 20:32
We have had the sticking lifters problem plenty of times,it causes a loud tapping noise from the top end as the cam rotates and is best cured by a good engine flush and oil change.We have had it on most models up to '97.
With reference to checking with volvo,i dont feel the need as my principal mechanic was a main agent mastertec and mot tester for 22 years.I joined this thread in an attempt to help someone out of a problem which afaik is the point of the forum,wasn't quite expecting to find myself attracting sarcastic critisism and suggestions that i should consult a "sound mechanic".We have been trading for 19 years and survive on reputation alone,we have a 99.55% feedback rating on the good garage scheme and are on the voc list of recommended independents.Seeing as you are evidently superior in knowledge to myself and maidstone is not far from london might i suggest that you gather your spanners and pop round and fix the problem car.I'll pay the petrol costs.

:D How funny that my reply be taken out of context! I was only asking a question, which still hasn't been answered. Alas, i am none the wiser. As with all things, a crystal ball would be great so now i know that your principal mechanic was a master tech for 22 years...Happy days! Excellent, maybe he can answer my question then?

As for rubbing you up the wrong way? well it's how you interpreted my reply! We all know what we know and i certainly am no expert. Everyday we learn something new, i certainly do. I know what i know and if i don't then i hold my hands up.

So, are you or your master tech going to explain or not? I simply want to know how it is possible and exactly what happens and why? I'm sure everyone will agree that if your going to reply to someone and state some thing then you must surely be able to back it up with a reasonable explanation....else, what's the point?

Anyway Al, if you want to lock the thread then that's ok with me but i never intended to offend anyone or rub anyone up the wrong way. ;)

Sorry to trader if you thought i was trying to pick a fight however you seem to have gone on the defensive for some reason and i'm really not sure why?

CONDYBOY
Wednesday 30th September 2009, 21:35
Whilst i understand exactly what your saying, please explain to me just how this is possible being as the piston rings are under constant 'outwards' tension. They are sprung and therefore need to be compressed in order to slide the piston and rings inside the bore when initially fitting. I cannot see how the rings would suddenly seize and clamp themselves tight around the piston when they are in constant contact and scrapping the bore walls? Indeed it may be possible for the rings to change shape, but the way they are manufactured, even this seems far fetched. Piston rings are designed to cope with extreme heat, even more so than the pistons themselves due to the immense heat and strain they are under due to frictional forces, forces involved on the thrust side of the piston etc. The only time odd things with engines manifest themselves are under extreme conditions. Mainly caused by lack of maintenance or none what so ever!

Are you suggesting that Al's parents car is not maintained? I don't think you are kind sir, so please do tell all how the piston rings seize tight on the pistons and effectively shrink? This would also cause a problem otherwise known in the trade as 'piston slap'. If the rings stop doing their job then the pistons (not being an interference fit) will be free to slap, grind and smash the piston bores to destruction!!

I'm all ears??:parhmph:

Okay, this is not a slagging match I am mearly interested, I do not know the maintenance history of the vehicle and I do not make assumptions.
If you would care to read my other post in this thread I have never come across rings sticking into the piston and I have no idea how this would come to be. But if I was to guess I'd say that theoretically as the majority of force on the rings is in a downward direction (as the piston rises causing compression, and as the fuel goes bang forcing the piston down), then the rings may wear slightly unevenly, and after time they may become marginally angled downwards (in relation to the bore), thus taking a convex shape (outer edge lower) and this could force the ring into the groove when the fuel goes bang and the force is placed on an angled surface (instead of the usual flat surface) of the ring. This could then also cause the ring to wedge in its groove as the angled is greater than the straight. But as stated I have never come across this and is merely my own musings.

Any joy Al?

Al115
Thursday 1st October 2009, 08:21
None yet :D but I haven't had a chance to look at the car since I last posted!

Will have another crack on Sunday. JOY....! :)

Al115
Sunday 4th October 2009, 14:17
Coolant Temp Sensor!

Now, I'd already swapped this for a "known good" one off another car and ruled it out... but as sod's law would have it, the replacement one wasn't "good" at all.

When I was going back over the car looking at everything again, I thought I'd double-check the CTS sensor with the multi-meter... was a bit suspicious... replaced it with a 4.7k ohm resistor to simulate "very cold" and hey presto, she runs! A bit oily, but nothing a good blast (once the sensor is replaced) won't fix.

THANKS to everyone for their suggestions and encouragement!!!

Tomcat
Sunday 4th October 2009, 17:26
DOh!!!, at least you found out what it was eh??..

readview
Sunday 4th October 2009, 19:28
Always nice when it's a easy fix!

CONDYBOY
Wednesday 7th October 2009, 10:16
Nice one mate, glad you found it.