Water/meth kit ordered & en-route!!

[Niles]

Got a great deal on a dual nozzle injection kit, flows at 4.2 gallons per hour.
1 nozzle set at 1.1 gph (pre turbo) & 1 @ 3.1gph (for throttle body). Just thought I'd share it with you coz im chuffed. lol

[cameron]

Excuse my stupidity but what does it do :confused:

[Niles]

cools the intake charge by Appx 70f. Works like a mahoooooooosive intercooler.
When you drive in the winter with mist have you ever noticed you car runs smoother & seems much nippier? This thing acts the same all year round. The 'switch' is adjustable from a feed from the vacuum tree, switch is from 2-26 psi, I was going to set mine to kick in at 10psi. It also vastly reduces the chance of fuel 'detonation' & will also allow more boost due to cold air being more dense.
#waits for some clever clogs to come and correct all I've said# lol

[p fandango]

thats another thing i keep threatening to get, have you got any more info on your kit to share

i thought most kits only have the one injector, do you need the 2?

[Tomcat]

Sounds very good but where the hell would you buy methanol anyway?, it's not something you could pick up at the corner shop is it?.

[Wombatbomb]

Kiddy play to get hold of.

http://jennychem.com/store/cat1

£25 for 25 litres or 210L for £150 + VAT.

[Niles]

thats another thing i keep threatening to get, have you got any more info on your kit to share

i thought most kits only have the one injector, do you need the 2?

The kit 'devils own' was from ebay, appx £165 delivered. It comes with 2 nozzles to try to cover all cars. ! nozzle is 3 gph and 1 is 7gph. I needed a 1 & 3gph to do a dual injection. The kit is meant for just 1. I mailed them & asked if it came with a 'T' piece' so I could run 2 nozzles. Very nicely they said they would throw in a dual injection kit for free. Nice people eh? They're in the US so the time difference slows down the communication.....however, when I send a question they reply every time & are very nice.
Flea bay item number...... 170290085710

[p fandango]

ah cheers Nile, i'm sure someone tried to organise a group buy for that kit. Let us know how you get on with it

[JelT5]

Got a great deal on a dual nozzle injection kit, flows at 4.2 gallons per hour.
1 nozzle set at 1.1 gph (pre turbo) & 1 @ 3.1gph (for throttle body). Just thought I'd share it with you coz im chuffed. lol

I would be too- nice one matey!

[cornclose]

On my list of mods-to-do aswell. Been looking at aquamist systems but they do seem expensive for what they are. Also I googled and found a number of DIY systems - quite professional some of them too!

Let us know how it goes.

[Niles]

I'll keep you lot posted & do a 'how to'. Should be interesting. I'm noty expecting any huge power gains, all I'm after is a smoother 'push'. The system says that the car will perform better, and if the time comes for a major turbo uprate the cars ready for it.
I looked at Aquamist & snow systems, I agree that they seem very overpriced for what they are. The company I got it from is Evil Tuning US.

[kwikv70]

have you/does the car need any ecu upgrades for it or is it plug and play.

[Niles]

have you/does the car need any ecu upgrades for it or is it plug and play.

just plug & play mate. No need for a custom remap. The system switches using the vac tree & its stand alone.

[snoop69]

Excuse my stupidity but what does it do :confused:

It gives him a 'woody' lol

[Alan M]

I have a Devils own system yet to be fitted on the car. You can get Methanol from a guy on ebay for £18 +£7 del on 25litres supplied in the drum with no extra charge for the drum as some sellers do. Niles are you going to run a seperate tank or from the washer bottle? I am going to run a seperate 1or2 gallon tank from the boot with a 50/50 mix.

[Niles]

Not sure yet alan, I was chatting to snoop about best place to fit a tank or maybe use the washer bottle. I think a 2 gallon tank it should be. Just where to put it???!!!

[woz]

ah cheers Nile, i'm sure someone tried to organise a group buy for that kit. Let us know how you get on with it

sorry chaps - it was me. i muttered abouta group buy from their agent in Salisbury, but there was not much interest and I am supposed to be looking for work so it did not go anywhere.
Woz

[cornclose]

Not sure yet alan, I was chatting to snoop about best place to fit a tank or maybe use the washer bottle. I think a 2 gallon tank it should be. Just where to put it???!!!

I'll be using the washer bottle when I fit mine, largely because it meets the criteria for distance/head for the high pressure pump etc.

However, I think I will also fit an auxillary tank somewhere else (havn't decided yet, maybe in the boot...) and use this as a header tank to the washer bottle. I'll use the existing low level float switch in the washer bottle to drive a relay which in turn will operate a small pump to transfer fluid from the auxillary tank to the washer bottle, to 'top it up' so to speak. I'll use a cheap screen wash pump for this.

This way, you get more capacity and are less likely to run out of water on longer runs, plus as mentioned it removes any limitations regarding water source location to meet the high pressure pump's requirements...

[850 2.5 10v]

In real world driving I'd be most surprised if for all this effort you get any disernable return...

Your insurance company will also have a fit.

Keep us in the loop anyway.

[Al115]

My insurance was fine with water injection, though I didn't ask about methanol.

[cornclose]

In real world driving I'd be most surprised if for all this effort you get any disernable return...

For a normally aspirated car (such as yours), probably not. But for a turbo charged car, yes, a noticable and very worthwhile difference, particularly when driving on-boost for extended periods, for example when towing.

In these situations, on-boost charge temperatures can be a lot less than off-boost charge temperatures, which results in less ignition advance and no loss of towing performance, especially so in higher ambient temperatures.

[Niles]

Still waiting for Mr Posty to deliver. US tracking says its being processed by customs on thursday morning. Hurry up Mr Customs!!!!!!!

[cornclose]

Mine's ordered now!

[Niles]

mine came yesterday. Very happy. Hopefully to be installed next week. No time to do it until then.
What kit did you get?

[cornclose]

Went for the Aquamist System 1S in the end... Good deal off ebay.

[Wobbly Dave]

I too have been thinking about this in a kind of pro's vs con's - particular as the ME7 car only allows you to have the power it wants (based on all the usual external factors)


Pro:

Realitively cheap
Quite easy to install
Reduces your NOx output
Reduces your intake temps
Con:

Custom map need for the WI or not? (I don't know)
Will it work if you don't map for it
Extra weight from carrying gallons of water/meth - I am sure this is fairly minimal
Risks of corrosion
Biggest issue is - what happens if you run out of water/meth?
I was thinking about starting a thread on this - but this seems an appropriate spot.

[p fandango]

Con:

Custom map need for the WI or not? (I don't know)
from what i've seen no-one has specifly mapped for the WI, the factory sensors just notice the air is cooler & work to that


Will it work if you don't map for it
see above


Extra weight from carrying gallons of water/meth - I am sure this is fairly minimal
the full factory screen wash bottle weighs 5.7kg. Plus if you go for an alloy tank which most do for water injection the weight will be higher


Risks of corrosion
theirs water in the atmosphere anyway, aslong as you leave it to idle (or turn the WI off a while) before shut-off it should flush most of it out of the system anyway


Biggest issue is - what happens if you run out of water/meth?
as above, as its basically working off factory sensors it will read a higher temperature. The only time i can see it being a problem is if you do get a special map made which runs a higher boost level which is over factory safety levels to make the most of the WI. Then it could get too hot running empty. I understand the pump/bottle knows when the water/meth is empty & shuts down the system so it doesn't damage the pump

[cornclose]

What fandango said ^^.

[cornclose]

Where did you get the figure of 5.7kg from ? Is that a phase 2 washer tank ? Been trying to find out how much it holds...

[wegal]

The aquamist system pump WILL NOT RUN DRY. If you run it dry even for a very short time you will kill it. They sell a cut off system seperately to prevent pump damage. The one Niles has ordered the pump can run dry without damage.

If you run out of water then it will make no difference to the car in terms of safety, the sensors will just adjust the fueling to warmer less dense air.

Corrosion is not such an issue. Dont inject before the intercooler as you will seriously reduce the cooling effect of your intercooler. The bigger the temperature difference between the input gasses and the ambiet air the more effective the cooling offered by the intercooler will be. Inject straight after the intercooler to get maximum effect, this gives the water a bit of time to absorb the heat before ending up in the combustion chambers. Corrosion is not an issue as the engine is hot enough to vapourise the water, also you will not be running constant injection. I think its best set at about 3 to 3500 rpm to start injecting. You will be putting in a lot less water than driving on the motorway on a rainy day.

I have read of people injecting before the turbo, which as I understand it helps to keep the turbo temp down as well, but I have also read that the turbo blades can suffer pitting and corrosion as a result.

Yes I have spent a while reading about this as its something I want to do. Il be running a seperate tank when I get round to it as I dont want to spray methanol onto my windscreen, not do I want to inject soap into my engine as that will burn and create nasty sticky deposits.

[cornclose]

I too have been thinking about this in a kind of pro's vs con's - particular as the ME7 car only allows you to have the power it wants (based on all the usual external factors)


Pro:

Realitively cheap
Quite easy to install
Reduces your NOx output
Reduces your intake temps
Con:

Custom map need for the WI or not? (I don't know)
Will it work if you don't map for it
Extra weight from carrying gallons of water/meth - I am sure this is fairly minimal
Risks of corrosion
Biggest issue is - what happens if you run out of water/meth?
I was thinking about starting a thread on this - but this seems an appropriate spot.

A good FAQ is here Wobbly :-

LINKY (http://www.interex.co.uk/faq_printer.html)

[Alan M]

Running 100% methanol can start to damage aluminium heads after a long while in use. Running a mixture of water and methanol should be okay. Once setup you could even run on 95 ron fuel.

[PaulZX]

Not sure yet alan, I was chatting to snoop about best place to fit a tank or maybe use the washer bottle. I think a 2 gallon tank it should be. Just where to put it???!!!

put it where the airbox goes, and get an air filter sat alongside the engine, pointing at the intake hole in the front panel...

http://i30.tinypic.com/213rczk.jpg

[PaulZX]

or, how about frozen pipes? That must make pretty cold intake temp, eh?

Check this out....

http://www.fueltopia.co.uk/profiles/blogs/ice-ice-baby-deis-cry02-c02

[Wobbly Dave]

Running 100% methanol would defeat the object - as I believe the temps in the cylinders would rise again

[p fandango]

Where did you get the figure of 5.7kg from ? Is that a phase 2 washer tank ? Been trying to find out how much it holds...
its an 850 bottle i weighed out of BT mate, factory screen wash bottles are a pain to mount as they are specially made to bolt in the factory position. You'd be better off with a universal tank bolted inside the spare wheel or somewhere out the way like that, don't think theres enough room under the bonnet to mount one

[cornclose]

its an 850 bottle i weighed out of BT mate, factory screen wash bottles are a pain to mount as they are specially made to bolt in the factory position. You'd be better off with a universal tank bolted inside the spare wheel or somewhere out the way like that, don't think theres enough room under the bonnet to mount one

Ah right, ok. I'll be using my screenwash bottle for starters, with the option of adding a second tank as in my previous post (linky) (http://www.vpcuk.org/forums/showpost.php?p=239189&postcount=18).

[Alan M]

Running 100% methanol would defeat the object - as I believe the temps in the cylinders would rise again

The methanol still has very good cooling properties when used exclusively without diluting. My car likes it. But I'll still stick to a mix of water/meth. My system has only been in this week and results so far are impressive. I surprised how much I actually go above 10psi as I seem to be flying through the bottle I have in the boot trying different mixtures. It may just be because its new and I keep seeing what its like higher up the revs and I only have a small tank next to the pump.

[Wobbly Dave]

Where is it best to get the tanks from?

[Alan M]

I have used a heavy duty storage plastic cylindrical type tank/bottle with a large lid which I have drilled to take the feed to the pump from with some very small breather holes so as not to create a vacuum inside it under load. I got mine from work and its about a 2.5 litre item. I am happy to check mine regularly so the size will do me for now untill I start doing trackdays and seeing if I need more.

[cornclose]

Where is it best to get the tanks from?

I'll probably end up making my own out of something - not sure yet, possible something from the home brewing or aquarium systems range might be suitable.

After all, you can get any fittings needed etc to make a professional installation with the correct shape/capacity etc for somewhere in the boot...

[Wobbly Dave]

Having given it much considered opinion (I would like to thank everyone for their input) - I have decided on balance not to proceed with WI.

Instead I am looking to a new source for a new remap.

All will be revealed in the fullness of time.

Maybe I may be marginally quicker - even with my limited talent - on the drag strip

[cornclose]

Received my Aquamist 1S kit, and I'm mighty impressed by the quality of the components and the amount of stuff included in the kit. Will be fitting it hopefully next week...

[cornclose]

Right, got mine all fitted today. REALLY IMPRESSED!! Noticable extra urge and torque when the water kicks in! Wasn't expecting to notice it that much as I fitted it for on-boost towing to keep IAT down and stop power drop-off, but even in normal driving it's noticable.

In the end, after a bit of experimentation, I've now got the 0.7mm jet on, and I've set it to come on at about 8 PSI (boost gauge not fitted yet!, that's tomorrows job...).

I also fitted the low level float right near the bottom of the washer tank (just above the water outlet for the pump). I wasn't going to fit it at first because the V70 already has a low washer fluid warning (which does work, I tested it!) but when I asked Aquamist, they also informed me that the included float switch inhibits the pump as well as lights the LED.


Got the LED's just poking out of the door rubber on the driver's side, looks really neat and unobtrusive. You wouldn't notice them unless you knew they were there.

The only thing I wasn't totally happy with was the hole I drilled/tapped in the charge air pipe. The material this is made of is more rubbery than it is hard, and it wasn't that good once threaded. However, silicone sealant in there to seal it and a big 12mm wide cable tie with a hole drilled in it to hold the jet in sorted that! Jardon has this on his, I believe it was Tim's idea - works well.

Glad I went with the aquamist system - really painless to install, nothing extra to buy really. Happy chap.