ME7 manifold project 'tidy'

[Niles]

Tim & Tony kindly helped me get an ME7 exhaust manifold. Perfect condition other than a bit grubby. Clean it up I thought........Results.......
My 1st go at this type of thingy......

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b91/camelbeanie/2009_0213exmanifold0008.jpg

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b91/camelbeanie/2009_0213exmanifold0006.jpg

Final polish required (it is very smooth but shows the grind marks, not sure I'll bother a s it's going to be carboned up within a few miles anyway)
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b91/camelbeanie/2009_0213exmanifold0007.jpg

[dooby]

Hi Niles,

just out of interest how do you go about cleaning something like that. It does look like new, fresh metal again.

Cheers, Pete

[1996 850 T5]

looks like its been beed blasted?

you can get 2nd hand cabinets for peanuts now,

managed to pick up an old cabinet for £100 last summer, ace bit of kit!

[Dangerous Dave]

I'm after a cabinet to do my brothers mini bits in, missed one the other day for £50 on the bay

[Niles]

yep, a good dunk in a decarboniser cleaner bath then sandblasted, milled out using Snap On milling tools in an air driven drill @ 56,000rpm!!! Hot knife & butter springs to mind.

[Niles]

and now ready for installation.........
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b91/camelbeanie/2009_0213exmanifold0010.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b91/camelbeanie/2009_0213exmanifold0013.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b91/camelbeanie/2009_0213exmanifold0014.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b91/camelbeanie/2009_0213exmanifold0015.jpg

[p fandango]

i'm surprised you haven't milled out the top outlet from the turbo while your at it

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/9154d03783.jpg

[Niles]

to be honest mate I really thought about it & didnt think it was worth it. Still might tho. Go on, nag me!! The exhaust side has had major work removing ridges and imperfections. Super slick in there now.

[AndysR]

Blimey it's that clean I thought it had been sprayed with silver paint!! Top job will look smart, shame its covered by heat shields or aren't you going to bother refitting those?

What is the benefit of fitting an ME7 manifold are they better flowing than the 4.4's?

[dooby]

Hiya Niles,


you sticking with the straight exhaust outlet? I'm going to run a 2nd hand Volvo downpipe and cat off a C70 (I think it was) which mates up to the angle flange until I can get an uprated downpipe with racing cat.

Also, do you have the part number of the exhaust manifold gasket? I ended up with 5 individual ones and yours looks easier :-) Any idea on the price? I think my 5 individual ones were around £14 from memory?

Looking very nice, clearly I need a proper parts washer and bead blasting cabinet!

Cheers, Pete

[1996 850 T5]

It does look good, its a shame there are no decent coatings that will withstand the heat (at reasonable money anyhow...)

I havent paid a great deal of attention to the manifolds I have, but that seems very similar to the normal T5 manifold to me? What are the differences on the ME7?

I was looking at an IPD site the other day and spotted an 'R' manifold, which i presume is meant to perform better?

http://www.ipdusa.com/product.asp?P_ID=1857&CAT_ID=372


I do like that one piece exhaust gasket though (is that the std gasket on the ME7 engines?)
i wish i knew those existed before replacing mine the other week, miles less fiddly!

imho milling out the compressor exit wont aid performance one iota, so wouldnt worry about that at all.

Did you use TC burrs for the porting? Theyre a godsend for cast work, always try and keep them loaded up or theyll go dull quite quickly.


if anyone else would like their manifold cleaning up, just let me know, i could do this for people on an exchange basis if needed?

Regards

Joe

[Niles]

Manifold gasket was recommended by Tim Williams. Its made of 3 thin sheets of stainless steel, should do the job very well!!!!
Part number.... 8699467 £3.75 + VAT. Bargain!!

Im sticking to the straight outlet for the time being. Next jobs are continue tidying the cars body, then move on to more serious suspension & bigger brakes.

[Niles]

yep, the tools where Snap On tungsten carbide bits. (lent to me, not bought PHEW!!!).

[Niles]

Blimey it's that clean I thought it had been sprayed with silver paint!! Top job will look smart, shame its covered by heat shields or aren't you going to bother refitting those?

What is the benefit of fitting an ME7 manifold are they better flowing than the 4.4's?

Thanks, sure it'll go rusty soon, I might refit the heat shield but as my car is right now it hasn't one fitted, i took it off so i could set the actuator up & couldn't be arsed to refit it. lol
The ME7 manifold flows better, porting out & milling stuff helps further. The S60R manifold is the top kiddy tho. Ebay gets 175-225 for an S60R one. The ME7 go's for 50-100.

[AndysR]

Thanks, sure it'll go rusty soon, I might refit the heat shield but as my car is right now it hasn't one fitted, i took it off so i could set the actuator up & couldn't be arsed to refit it. lol
The ME7 manifold flows better, porting out & milling stuff helps further. The S60R manifold is the top kiddy tho. Ebay gets 175-225 for an S60R one. The ME7 go's for 50-100.

Yeah I had noticed that the S60R manifold's go for fair price, didn't realise the ME7 was any different to the earlier version. Very interesting, Thanks :)

[Enigma666]

Tim reckons he can port a late ME7 to flow just as well as the S60R manifold btw, so say £70 for the manifold and about £60 for porting from Tim, bargain :D

[AndysR]

Tim reckons he can port a late ME7 to flow just as well as the S60R manifold btw, so say £70 for the manifold and about £60 for porting from Tim, bargain :D

I take it the amount of porting required doesn't weaken the manifold? :)

Have tests been done on the flow rate of the S60R manifold vs. a ported ME7 manifold? Because that makes for a seriously interesting alternative. :)

[p fandango]

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/56a3acaa2c.jpg
S60R manifold

[Niles]

I take it the amount of porting required doesn't weaken the manifold? :)

Have tests been done on the flow rate of the S60R manifold vs. a ported ME7 manifold? Because that makes for a seriously interesting alternative. :)

I dont know mate.

Has anyone ever seen some kind of comparison flow graphs between standard manifolds, ME7 & S60R?

[1996 850 T5]

after reading this, i had to have a bit of a bash on my spare manifold today (will take some snaps tomorrow) haha

on looking at my manifold now, (off a 96 T5) its slightly different in quite a few ways to your ME7 version

niles, when porting yours, did you mistake any of the casting lines as cracks, when i first got stuck into the divider area, i paniced as cracks started appearing at the root of each one, once sandblasted if can see its just where it has been cast, phew!


quite a few authors/tuning guru's state that in a turbo application 'flow' isnt the start all and end all of performance, some of the best turbo manifolds are the horrible convoluted 'log' type, but they seem to deliver to goods

if you look, the 'paired' ports on our manifolds, 1&4, and 2&3 are chosen as they fire quite far apart (FO 1,2,4,5,3)

i imagine this will help two-fold, firstly, to stop the port from 'strangling' the exhaust, which would occur if the cylinders fired consequetively (sending 2 cylinders worth of exhaut down the same port), and secondly, it will help provide 2 distinct exhaust pulses.

turbo's seem to love exhaust pulses, thats why tuned length manifolds work so well, and why the dividers exist in our stock manifolds, if these are taken away too much, then the pulse effect will be lessened and it might hinder performance in some areas

with this in mind, i didnt go quite as deep into the collector as you, instead just cut back until the openings were about the same x-section size wise as the rest of the port (about 1" in the centre), hopefully should 'de-choke' the collector area, keeping the gas velocity nice and high, without the pulse waves bombing about down other ports.

having said all that, knowing my luck, it will prob perform worse than std haha

[Niles]

niles, when porting yours, did you mistake any of the casting lines as cracks, when i first got stuck into the divider area, i paniced as cracks started appearing at the root of each one, once sandblasted if can see its just where it has been cast, phew!


No cracks anywhere, casting lines were there but not anymore. I had an old t5 manifold & it was cracked in all 3 of the vanes.

[Engineer]

after reading this, i had to have a bit of a bash on my spare manifold today (will take some snaps tomorrow) haha

on looking at my manifold now, (off a 96 T5) its slightly different in quite a few ways to your ME7 version

niles, when porting yours, did you mistake any of the casting lines as cracks, when i first got stuck into the divider area, i paniced as cracks started appearing at the root of each one, once sandblasted if can see its just where it has been cast, phew!


quite a few authors/tuning guru's state that in a turbo application 'flow' isnt the start all and end all of performance, some of the best turbo manifolds are the horrible convoluted 'log' type, but they seem to deliver to goods

if you look, the 'paired' ports on our manifolds, 1&4, and 2&3 are chosen as they fire quite far apart (FO 1,2,4,5,3)

i imagine this will help two-fold, firstly, to stop the port from 'strangling' the exhaust, which would occur if the cylinders fired consequetively (sending 2 cylinders worth of exhaut down the same port), and secondly, it will help provide 2 distinct exhaust pulses.

turbo's seem to love exhaust pulses, thats why tuned length manifolds work so well, and why the dividers exist in our stock manifolds, if these are taken away too much, then the pulse effect will be lessened and it might hinder performance in some areas

with this in mind, i didnt go quite as deep into the collector as you, instead just cut back until the openings were about the same x-section size wise as the rest of the port (about 1" in the centre), hopefully should 'de-choke' the collector area, keeping the gas velocity nice and high, without the pulse waves bombing about down other ports.

having said all that, knowing my luck, it will prob perform worse than std haha

I know Tim has achieved positive results with the ME7 manifold and your post is also relevant regarding the firing order on our 5 cylinder engines which makes me wonder about the S60R manifold.

[Niles]

Saturday evening preparation for swappies on Sunday......

Turbo vac pipes removed.
Turbo to intercooler pipe removed.
Fresh air inlet removed.
Oil feed removed.
Water feed removed.
Heat shields removed.
2 Top turbo to manifold bolts/nuts removed.
Gallons of WD40 sploshed everywhere. lol

HT lead unplugged.
Injector wiring unplugged.


(got bored with TV while Mrs Niles shifted Miss Niles bedrooms. Bit chilly outside but wrapped up toasty)

[1996 850 T5]

If you have a long extension for your socket set, i find the most knuckle freindly way for undoing the downpipe nuts is by removing the osf wheel and attacking them from afar

Have fun!

[Loadsamiles]

I know Tim has achieved positive results with the ME7 manifold and your post is also relevant regarding the firing order on our 5 cylinder engines which makes me wonder about the S60R manifold.

It's made a few people wonder.

The prices of the R manifold are high simply because it's off an "R", but is it really any better.

[Dangerous Dave]

SHHHHHHHHH!

We don't want everyone to know it might be better, the price will go up.

[Niles]

OK, job done, installed & road tested. I'm not going to give my car a thrash until I feel all's settled down. Took me 5 hours,all the way along I took my time & cleaned all the pipes , nuts etc etc, some time also to let some studs soak in WD40 so I could remove the nuts off them.
After a test drive the car is more responsive & with a little boost it's obviously smoother & less aggressive but definitely feels very powerful. Also, the exhaust note has dropped & now sounds very meaty.
Here's a piccy of the bits in place followed by some pix of the turbo & manifold I removed. Turbos very grubby but no play in the shaft & only a teeny bit of smoke. Still can push 20PSI!!!!! The manifold has a bad crack in all 3 vanes!!! Go job I changed it eh?

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b91/camelbeanie/2009_0215exmanifold0004.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b91/camelbeanie/2009_0215exmanifold0003.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b91/camelbeanie/2009_0215exmanifold0002.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b91/camelbeanie/2009_0215exmanifold0001.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b91/camelbeanie/2009_0215exmanifold0001-1.jpg

[1996 850 T5]

congratulations!

Was that a 15G you had been running 20psi on?

[Niles]

15g with Rica 304 map & the actuator wound up. worked very well. Could have pulled an elephant up a cliff!

[Dangerous Dave]

my vanes had cracks in them too

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s101/bomb192uk/volvopics/DSC03406.jpg

[Niles]

Seems like the 850 standard manifold is weak, All the 1's I've seen are cracked mate.

[Dangerous Dave]

Had a go at a spare manifold I acquired, I bought a carbide burr bit off ebay for £7 and it is bloody fantastic, just eats the metal!

So I opened it up a little
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s101/bomb192uk/volvopics/DSC03406.jpg
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s101/bomb192uk/volvopics/13052009048.jpg

I haven't gone in as deep as Niles did with his manifold, and the cracks are visible. The top port is clearly bigger.

What you guys think?

[t5 pete]

Have you got a link to which burr bit you got

[Dangerous Dave]

Yeah, here it is

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&item=140317249164