help urgently please

[850 Turbo Hearse]

so, the cars not running properly, if at all, all of a sudden. and I due to go to the ring in three days.

the missus went out in the rain this avo- and boy has it been raining here, so Im figuring thats definitley a factor- and Ive just jumped in the car and the idle is all over the place, revving up and down and when I rev it its as lumpy as hell. maybe its a misfire? I dont know- having never experienced on, I cant tell you whether what its doing feels like that.

anyway, since the last thing that was changed was the ecu, I thought id switch that back and see if that made any difference, and by switching it back things did improve slightly.

however, its still rough as ****, so Im assuming that something has gotten damp in it (though everything looks dry under the bonnet) that the uprated ecu is placing bigger demands on, causing the rough running/ idle fluctuation to be worse. The wife says she didnt drive through any rivers or anything, but it is awful wet out there, so it must be playing a part, as I had no problems whatsoever on friday when it was dry.

but what could it be? HT leads? something else? what? if for instance it is the HT leads, could it be that they were a bit ****ty, and the rain has made them worse? or is that unlikely? They dont look wet, theres no water on the engine bay now (though its been a few hours since she was out, so i suppose the heat from the bay could have dried off the water).

again, the car ran just fine on friday, apart from of course the ongoing lack of 1bar of boost problem which is making me moody.

anyway, anyone got any ideas? Im really reluctant to head off to the ring in a car that may be on the way out, but it wont look well for me if I cancel at this late juncture. Id appreciate any thoughts anyone has.

Thanks in advance,
Nervy.

[Tomcat]

What year is it?, if it's pre 96 and you have the dianostics module under the bonnet then use that to pull the fault codes from the system. If the car's gotten wet then its usuall the electrical stuff like the HT leads that play a part in poor running. You could try a liberal application of WD40 to get shut of any damp on them, although this will only be a short term fix, if the leads are knackered then it'll happen again next time they get wet. I would also look at the coil as well.

[irf]

lumpy pretty much means a misfire i would imagine.

a couple of things. try disconnecting the AFM. if it makes a difference it could be that.

have the car running with the bonnet up. with some insulates pliers or something, pull up an HT lead one at a time. if the car runs worse, it's good, if there's no change in the running then it's either the HT lead or spark plug.

other then that i'd check the hose that is on the left wall of the inlet manifold. could either be off or the elbows perished.

[850 Turbo Hearse]

What year is it?, if it's pre 96 and you have the dianostics module under the bonnet then use that to pull the fault codes from the system. If the car's gotten wet then its usuall the electrical stuff like the HT leads that play a part in poor running. You could try a liberal application of WD40 to get shut of any damp on them, although this will only be a short term fix, if the leads are knackered then it'll happen again next time they get wet. I would also look at the coil as well.

thanks TC.

its a 96. do I still have the code reader? if so, where is it, and how do i work it/ crack the codes?

if it is the leads, how come it wast running rough before? and why is it running worse with the old standard ecu on?

[850 Turbo Hearse]

lumpy pretty much means a misfire i would imagine.

a couple of things. try disconnecting the AFM. if it makes a difference it could be that.

have the car running with the bonnet up. with some insulates pliers or something, pull up an HT lead one at a time. if the car runs worse, it's good, if there's no change in the running then it's either the HT lead or spark plug.

other then that i'd check the hose that is on the left wall of the inlet manifold. could either be off or the elbows perished.

ok, Ill go try those things now. thanks Irf.

which hose do you mean? Got a pic or a diagram? Am getting a little sick of examining hoses on this car :(

[850 Turbo Hearse]

ok, first things first, when I unplug the maf sensor, the car dies. what does that mean?

[dooby]

Hiya,

can't think of too much to add, but if it's been really wet maybe some moisture in the air made it through the air filter and to the MAF as has been suggested?

One other thing which can cause a bad idle is the idle air control valve I think. This is found under the throttle body plastic cover and has an electrical connector and 2x 1" hoses coming in to it on opposite sides.

It's recommended to clean it out with carb cleaner every so often, so the 'valve' inside is free moving and 'floppy', with no oily black gunk in there. Can't think why that might have got worse in wet weather though. It's unlikely damp air would have an effect having been through a hot turbo and an intercooler but maybe a boost leak becoming a vacuum leak and drawing in damp air between the top of the intercooler and the idle air control valve?

Stainesy had a recent post showing a huge tear in one of the hoses and I think the hose where the rubber smaller diameter hose comes out is also a favourite for splitting. Careful checking of those parts as you inspect the IAC valve worth a go?

Cheers, Pete

[irf]

not the best pic and you have to love my skillz:crazy: but have a look in this area.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v304/irf200/volvo%20related/Enginebay.jpg

it's on the left hand wall of the inlet manifold

[850 Turbo Hearse]

Stainesy had a recent post showing a huge tear in one of the hoses and I think the hose where the rubber smaller diameter hose comes out is also a favourite for splitting. Careful checking of those parts as you inspect the IAC valve worth a go?

Cheers, Pete


so. many. hoses. hate. hoses.

got a diagram or pic of the one you mean? sorry to be a pest folks.

[850 Turbo Hearse]

not the best pic and you have to love my skillz:crazy: but have a look in this area.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v304/irf200/volvo%20related/Enginebay.jpg

it's on the left hand wall of the inlet manifold

thanks Irf, they are indeed good skills :)

do you mean that exact hose that the arrows pointing to?

[irf]

good point pete, have a look at the pipe that goes into the throttle as well. they like to split underneath where you cant actually see it.

i had a new one and after one track day at marham had a look and it was on the verge of splitting!

[850 Turbo Hearse]

good point pete, have a look at the pipe that goes into the throttle as well. they like to split underneath where you cant actually see it.

i had a new one and after one track day at marham had a look and it was on the verge of splitting!

wheres that? theres so many bloody hoses on this cursed car!

[850 Turbo Hearse]

anyone got any thoughts on what the car dieing totally when I unplug the maf means?

[irf]

thanks Irf, they are indeed good skills :)

do you mean that exact hose that the arrows pointing to?

no mate, the black hose is one of your water pipes.

this again is a crap pic because it's the wrong side but follow where no. 2 would go.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v304/irf200/volvo%20related/intakemanifolddiagram.jpg

[irf]

this hose is where stainseys split(the bigger black one)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v304/irf200/volvo%20related/DSC00661.jpg

sorry, i don't know what it means if you disconnect the afm and the car dies. sure someone does though.

[850 Turbo Hearse]

im sorry to be thick irf, but Im not getting what you mean at all. If it helps at all, im thinking about handing back my engineering qualifications.

[stephenevans99]

Have you tried removing the dizzy cap and making sure there's no moisture inside?

[850 Turbo Hearse]

this hose is where stainseys split(the bigger black one)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v304/irf200/volvo%20related/DSC00661.jpg

sorry, i don't know what it means if you disconnect the afm and the car dies. sure someone does though.


that hose is fine.

[irf]

nervy, the pic with the red arrow is just pointing to the general area.pull that pipe up and have a poke around. the silver thing with what looks like 5 silver pipes is your inlet manifold. have a look all around that for lovely vacuum pipes and see that they're all in good nick.

tbh though, for it to run really crap like that, if it is a boost leak it would have to be a fairly obvious one.

i'm too far away from you to have a look which is probably a blessing in disguise but hopefully someone a bit closer may be able to help.

[850 Turbo Hearse]

have the dizzy off now, and it looks fine and dry andspark plugs are three weeks old.

[850 Turbo Hearse]

contacts inside dizzy cap are black and ****ty tho, whilst this cant be helping, would it cause it to suddenly go mad?

[850 Turbo Hearse]

ok, cleaning, and wd40'ing the dizzy etc has done nothing. its still all over the place.

[PNuT]

ok, cleaning, and wd40'ing the dizzy etc has done nothing. its still all over the place.

wd40? whats the idea of that?

[PNuT]

just read the whole thread... change the leads/cap & rotor arm..... they will all cause the problem you describe....

with regards to an air lead.... is you engine management light working & lit?

unplugging your maf whilst running will cut out the engine..... thats normal!

does it run smoothly if you unplug & then start?

[850 Turbo Hearse]

wd40? whats the idea of that?


everyone alwasy says to spray the inside of the diz with wd when its been raining in case its damp.

[850 Turbo Hearse]

just read the whole thread... change the leads/cap & rotor arm..... they will all cause the problem you describe....

what the fluctuating revs, and the attempts to stall out after revving? why has it gone this way all of a sudden though? and will new volvo leads be ok, or do I really want new fancy ones?


with regards to an air lead.... is you engine management light working & lit?

got no dash lights on.


unplugging your maf whilst running will cut out the engine..... thats normal!

excellent, thats something.


does it run smoothly if you unplug & then start?

no, it goes back to running **** again, sadly. that mean anything?

[PNuT]

everyone alwasy says to spray the inside of the diz with wd when its been raining in case its damp.

is that so it seals in the damp?

i find drying something that is damp helps! if its actually damp ;)

lubricant may have an adverse effect anyway & direct the spark were it doesnt wanna be!

you really need to replace those items! they may have been on the car since new as they aint service items.....

[PNuT]

what the fluctuating revs, and the attempts to stall out after revving? why has it gone this way all of a sudden though? and will new volvo leads be ok, or do I really want new fancy ones?



got no dash lights on.



excellent, thats something.



no, it goes back to running **** again, sadly. that mean anything?

volvo will be fine, the bourgicord(sp) on pfv are the same as volvo but half the price ;)

if you unplug the maf when its running ruff & it runs fine it points to the maf.... if it still runs ruff it points elsewere

were in the country are you?

[850 Turbo Hearse]

is that so it seals in the damp?

i find drying something that is damp helps! if its actually damp ;)

lubricant may have an adverse effect anyway & direct the spark were it doesnt wanna be!

you really need to replace those items! they may have been on the car since new as they aint service items.....

well, I used it to clean rather than lunbricate anyway, Ive never understood the logic of it either. Anyway, when I put it back on, it was dry. And it hasnt helped.

Why would my presumably long standing coked and ****ty cap and rotor suddenly cause the car to go rubbish?

[850 Turbo Hearse]

volvo will be fine, the bourgicord(sp) on pfv are the same as volvo but half the price ;)

so, buy from PFV?



were in the country are you?

norfolk, near norwich, but dont hold that against me.

[PNuT]

well, I used it to clean rather than lunbricate anyway, Ive never understood the logic of it either. Anyway, when I put it back on, it was dry. And it hasnt helped.

Why would my presumably long standing coked and ****ty cap and rotor suddenly cause the car to go rubbish?

because you just asked them to do something extra! plus the weather has changed!

my air con compressor went tits up the other day! no reason or warning! things like this happen!

[PNuT]

so, buy from PFV?



norfolk, near norwich, but dont hold that against me.

fairly close to me then.... if you get desperate we can have a little meet & i can check your car over.... i have most of the spares that were working fine on my car when i was looking for a boost leak....

[850 Turbo Hearse]

because you just asked them to do something extra! plus the weather has changed!

my air con compressor went tits up the other day! no reason or warning! things like this happen!

Ok, Ill change them out tomorow.

Where abouts are you? Itd be ace to find that boost leak!

[PNuT]

Ok, Ill change them out tomorow.

Where abouts are you? Itd be ace to find that boost leak!


near mildenhall suffolk

[850 Turbo Hearse]

excellent stuff. thats good to know.

are you confident this is the leads etc? can I stop thinking about it? please?

as for the boost leak/ lack of boost- if you could see your way to crawling over the car, thatd be excellent. Happy to pay for your time and stuff.

[PNuT]

excellent stuff. thats good to know.

are you confident this is the leads etc? no one can be 100% sure, but before you look any further you need to know the ignition system is tip top

[850 Turbo Hearse]

ok, thanks Pnut- Ill go get some leads etc this morning and go from there.

Thanks for all your time and advice folks, Ill keep you posted.

[850 Turbo Hearse]

well, the ht leads, diz cap and new rotor havent done anything. whats the next most logical port of call?

[c70Portree]

mite not be the same but i fitted a k&n to my t5 and it was running really crap too!!! up and down in the revs and when i reved it was really lumpy!!!! so i disconnected my airflow metre and now the car runs s**t hot!!! and sounds nice too!! so just a stab in the dark but try diconnecting your airflow metre. i still have mine disconnected and have no problems atall. hope you sort your prob.


Regards


Iain

[850 Turbo Hearse]

when i disconnect the maf it stalls out. im told its supposed to do that.

[c70Portree]

hmm thats strange i didnt know that but my 99' c70 didnt do that, maybe theres a big leak in your air box and putting too much air to the engine, or ur maf is ££££ed and thinks its getting too much air?+

[PNuT]

you need to unplug the maf without the engine running, then start the car & see how it runs with it disconected

[850 Turbo Hearse]

just to bring you up to speed- for Im sure its weighing as heavy on your minds as much as it is mine. Took it to a volvo 'expert' yesterday to see if he can diagnose the problem.

weve/ checked/ replaced/ elminiated:

* throttle position sensor (replaced)

* injectors (replaced)

* maf (replaced)

* ecu (used a stock one, problem still existed)

* earth straps

* spark is really strong

* dizzy cap

* rotor arm

* HT leads

* wd40'd all electrical connectors

* read the fault codes (its just reading rich fuelling, nothing else)

and we still have had no joy, whatsoever. Im really low on time now, so if anyone has any other thoughts as to what it could be, please do let me know.

failing that, Im going to torch the ****ing thing.

thanks for all your thoughts as always folks, it's much appreciated.

[PNuT]

the rich fueling issue, did it come up as a code?

does it run ok from cold? what position on the temp gauge does the engine temp get to?

whats it boosting too & does it hold boost?

[850 Turbo Hearse]

yep, 231 I think- it was the one that related to rich fuelling anyway.

it runs a bit better from cold, but only by virtur of the fact that it gets worse as it gets hot. its still **** when cold.

the temp guage is getting to halfway as normal.

its hardly boosting at all, only slightly into positive boost and feels WAY down on power, it may be ok at really tall revs but im reluctant to thrash it.

I have it at an 'expert' in norwich at the mo, whos going to look some more tomorrow.

[PNuT]

its heading towards a large airleak, the bottom hose from the intercooler as it leaves the intercooler is one that sometimes gets missed ;) or the intercooler itself can split!!

[850 Turbo Hearse]

god, more bloody hoses? ok, I'll get my 'expert' to check it.

thanks chum :)

[850 Turbo Hearse]

its looking like it might be bad fuel- does this sound plausible?

[Tomcat]

It's.....possible, there was duff fuel supplied by one of the large supermarkets last year, have you filled up anywhere different latley?.

[850 Turbo Hearse]

shell. anyone ever persued them for damages?

[Tomcat]

Can't say, I know that the supermarket that supplied the duff fuel had to pay out compensation as it was all over the press at the time. The problem you'll have is prooving that's where the defective fuel came from, if that's what it is.

[850 Turbo Hearse]

we have the reciept. thats the only proof though isnt it?

[Dangerous Dave]

Reading through all these posts, no one except PNut has actually asked if you've checked all your intake hoses. And thats exactly what I was thinking.

You say the wife went out in it? and you've just had an ecu upgrade? maybe when she went out in it, it blew a pipe open somewhere?

Best check all the intake hoses for leaks/splits as any air intake after the MAF would ££££ up the running.

[850 Turbo Hearse]

Reading through all these posts, no one except PNut has actually asked if you've checked all your intake hoses. And thats exactly what I was thinking.

You say the wife went out in it? and you've just had an ecu upgrade? maybe when she went out in it, it blew a pipe open somewhere?

Best check all the intake hoses for leaks/splits as any air intake after the MAF would ££££ up the running.

that makes sense I know, but Im absolutley buggered if I can find any hoses off or split anywhere. I almost wish I could.

[Dangerous Dave]

It makes all the more sense if she had a bit of a heavy right foot at the time.

Did the problem start when she was out, or after?

[Alan M]

I'd say your thermostat needs changing. It's an easy job to do. The car may appear to be getting to temp normally but it may not be operating as it should and holding the car in a cold start situation causing it to run rich . Getting the live data read on your fuel trims would help out as it may give a pointer as to the fault.

[850 Turbo Hearse]

where is the therm on an 850?

[PNuT]

I'd say your thermostat needs changing. It's an easy job to do. The car may appear to be getting to temp normally but it may not be operating as it should and holding the car in a cold start situation causing it to run rich . Getting the live data read on your fuel trims would help out as it may give a pointer as to the fault.

wouldnt cut boost to almost zero tho..... + it should run ok when cold....

have you checked the turbo is spinning?

i still suspect a major airleak, one of the 3 large pipes! or the intercooler has split...

[chrisRSVR]

sorry i feel kind of cheeky butting in on this thread, BUT my 1999 v70 t5 has the exact same thing with the revs, goes from 400-1500 when sat at lights and stopped etc, and the mention of an air leak got me thinking! a so called turbo expert put a bleed valve on the hose from my dump valve so as to apparently manualy adjust the boost, and i can hear air escaping when i put my foot down, could this cause the rough tick over?

[Dangerous Dave]

probably as there is unmetered air entering the system, and the ecu doesn't know its there.

[PNuT]

probably as there is unmetered air entering the system, and the ecu doesn't know its there.

& metered air leaving the system under boost that the ecu is fueling for, hence running rich

[850 Turbo Hearse]

just a quick note to say that the car is now fixed and running better than ever- Im not sure if we can say at this point whether it was definitivley fuel or not as a lot of parts have been changed, but it's running now and that's all that matters. I'll worry about what it was more when and if I make it back from ze 'ring alive :)

Thanks so much to all of you that gave your time and thoughts- it's much appreciated. :thumbsup:

[Dangerous Dave]

Glad to hear it's sorted mate, have fun!

[850 Turbo Hearse]

just to prove we made it!

http://images.mw-sportfoto.de/galerie/photopath/2008/touri/20081018/20081018touri0536.jpg

thanks again for all your help folks, much appreciated :)

[cameron]

The smiles on yer faces says it all mate :D

Glad you got sorted out

Lee

[850 Turbo Hearse]

we were 4 up at that point too! I'll bet we had way more fun than anyone else this weekend.