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View Full Version : D5 + Tune/Chip = Problems ?



T5R+
Saturday 30th August 2008, 11:10
Before chipping/tuning wanted to try and understand some of the potential issues we have experienced.

Decided to buy a 2.4/D5 either 2006/7 with Geartronic.

So if you have either experienced or know of problems that occur after chipping, could you please share, so that at least I am forewarned.

PLEASE not a dealer bashing thread but more mechanical failure.

Thanks

agr
Saturday 30th August 2008, 21:34
I owned a D5 on a 53 plate and had it remapped from 163bhp to 210bhp rica. The result was a remarkable one, the torque was through the roof (i think it was around 475mn) while the mpg went up from 35mpg to 45mpg with still a heavy right foot, motorway driving was coming out at 55+. Down sides were as i had a heavy right foot the tyre wear was scary, and also due to my driving style the turbo was on the way out fast!! These things as we all know happen to any car's componants when pushed hard so if treated with respect having it remapped is a great thing to do. It should also remain invisable to any Volvo services so won't effect the warranty if there is still one.

tingy
Saturday 30th August 2008, 22:44
It should also remain invisable to any Volvo services so won't effect the warranty if there is still one.

I would be VERY suspect of that

S60-MBS
Saturday 30th August 2008, 22:54
Defo not invisible to the techs at Volvo..they will not its there

T5R+
Sunday 31st August 2008, 09:27
I would be VERY suspect of that

There seems to be a difference of opinion on whether the Volvo technicians can "spot" upgrades


those that think there are many buckets of code and they may fall across an upgrade by accident
those that think that Volvo spot it as soon as plugging in their diagnostics software


my only real concern is that car will be under warranty, so any mishaps (i.e massive/expensive failures) will be blamed on the non-Volvo upgrade.

The "chipper" agrees to reinstall his upgrade for the duration of my ownership, as and when and if Volvo overwrite it.

Other than intercoolers - any other common failures that I need to be cautious of?

tingy
Sunday 31st August 2008, 10:09
There seems to be a difference of opinion on whether the Volvo technicians can "spot" upgrades


those that think there are many buckets of code and they may fall across an upgrade by accident
those that think that Volvo spot it as soon as plugging in their diagnostics software


my only real concern is that car will be under warranty, so any mishaps (i.e massive/expensive failures) will be blamed on the non-Volvo upgrade.

The "chipper" agrees to reinstall his upgrade for the duration of my ownership, as and when and if Volvo overwrite it.

Other than intercoolers - any other common failures that I need to be cautious of?

if they plug their software in an run the car they will see it as all the engine settings will be differant from what they are expecting to see imo

also i have an 06 D5 (still under warrenty) why not do what im doing and wait till it runs out before getting the re-map as that would negate all your problems in that reguard

surely volvo cant overwrite it without your permission that would be like changing the wheels on your car without your permission

also have a look at MTE's remap for the D5 as from the sounds of it, it will leave the rica standing

and dont buy a 2.4d buy the D5

v70torslanda
Sunday 31st August 2008, 10:14
I was put off the idea of a chip, remap or add-on box by the experiences of a colleague with an '03 S60 D5 manual. I only have vague details but here goes -

After the software upload the car threw 'loads of fault codes' along with at least one 'engine service required' and 'emissions service required' messages at regular intervals. Detectable black smoke on acceleration, reluctance to start and a loss of flexibility ie the capability to pootle in traffic in one gear. All these are purely subjective and I would be lying if I said I knew which remap he had. He was friends with the man who carried out the 'upgrade' and for what its worth I believe it was someone in the Preston area.

The kicker was that the 'tuner' was either very reluctant to remove the software or simply couldn't return the vehicle to standard. He traded the car in and stated later that he wished he had never had the thing chipped in the first place.

Just like Jeremy Clarkson doing 'some checks' on the Bugatti before lowering the rear spoiler choose your tuner 'carefully'. It is not unreasonable to ask to speak to any customers who have had the work carried out. FWIW APR claim that their software is undetectable at a dealer level and I can believe that as most technicians would never get so deeply involved as to end up reading great long lines of machine code, they'd simply condemn the ECU and move on.

My gut reaction is still 'Don't'. If you want it that fast then go buy a 530d Sport, they come with 260bhp as standard. If you want a Volvo then get a Volvo but don't try to turn it into something else and then compplain that it doesn't perform like a Volvo any more. . .

</enough already>

J

T5R+
Sunday 31st August 2008, 10:40
You are correct about the 5 Series...........

My shortlist is V70/E-Class 320CDI Saloon/530 or 535D Tourer.

With 2007 V70 2.4D's at £12.5K the Germans do not seem value for money.

Would prefer a D5 but both the 2.4D and D5 tune to exactly the same output - thus why pay the extra for the D5 if definitely chipping it.

Justin
Sunday 31st August 2008, 10:58
if they plug their software in an run the car they will see it as all the engine settings will be differant from what they are expecting to see imo

also i have an 06 D5 (still under warrenty) why not do what im doing and wait till it runs out before getting the re-map as that would negate all your problems in that reguard

surely volvo cant overwrite it without your permission that would be like changing the wheels on your car without your permission

also have a look at MTE's remap for the D5 as from the sounds of it, it will leave the rica standing

and dont buy a 2.4d buy the D5

I don't think that unless they really look a tech would spot a remap, they don't get your car in with the first intention of checking if its tuned. Perhaps on test drive it would be apparent. I'm not saying it can't be spotted as it can, but its if they would notice it or not.

The MTE remap that (correct me if I'm wrong) doesn't exist as yet?
Also why the agenda with Rica, how would it compare to BSR, or DTS Ltd ?

All sounds a bit sour to me.

agr
Sunday 31st August 2008, 12:14
I don't think that unless they really look a tech would spot a remap, they don't get your car in with the first intention of checking if its tuned. Perhaps on test drive it would be apparent. I'm not saying it can't be spotted as it can, but its if they would notice it or not.

The MTE remap that (correct me if I'm wrong) doesn't exist as yet?
Also why the agenda with Rica, how would it compare to BSR, or DTS Ltd ?

All sounds a bit sour to me.

I agree, i had the car serviced by Volvo with the promise from the tuner that if Volvo had to flash the software and the remap erased they'd retune it f.o.c. and it came back unoticed. I can't speak for any one else but that was my experience. As for black smoke, starting problems etc i had none of those, again this is only my experience. I also agree that if you really want a powerful desiel nothing touches the 535d, but the problem of affording one is another matter!! I had the car for about 15 months and had a blast in it, but more kids meant an upgrade in size and thinking seriously of remapping that one too, will need advice on where to go soon.

tingy
Sunday 31st August 2008, 12:23
Would prefer a D5 but both the 2.4D and D5 tune to exactly the same output - thus why pay the extra for the D5 if definitely chipping it.


they most certainly do not tune to the same output



The MTE remap that (correct me if I'm wrong) doesn't exist as yet?
Also why the agenda with Rica, how would it compare to BSR, or DTS Ltd ?

All sounds a bit sour to me.


http://forums.t5d5.org/index.php?showtopic=3926

also

http://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showthread.php?t=57022&highlight=mte+d5

you stand corrected sir :P

Justin
Sunday 31st August 2008, 13:23
Thanks for the update, Indeed i do on one part.

Doesn't answer the other questions though, I would imagine its a good product, its taken them long enough, however better than Rica or others???? No one has driven one yet so lets not jump the gun ey ;)

Justin
Monday 1st September 2008, 19:08
FYI T5R+

Here is a breakdown of the top 4 tuners (IMO) in no particular order.

D5 Euro 3 (2001-2005) - VIN code 79
Standard = 163 hp / 340 Nm
RICA = 198 hp / 435 Nm (Normal Tune)
RICA = 210 hp / 475 Nm (Sports Tune, can’t confirm the figures)
BSR = 197 hp / 470 Nm
HEICO = 190 hp / 390 Nm
MTE = 195 hp / 420 Nm

2.4D Euro 4 (2006 onwards) – VIN code 69
Standard = 163 hp / 340 Nm
RICA = 226 hp / 460 Nm (Normal Tune) Don’t know if special sports tune is available.
BSR = 220 hp / 455 Nm
HEICIO = 210 hp / 460 Nm
MTE = 225hp / 480 Nm (Not available for the new S80/V70 II)

D5 Euro 4 (2006 onwards) – VIN code 71
Standard = 185 hp / 400 Nm
RICA = 226 hp / 460 Nm (Normal Tune) Don’t know if special sports tune is available.
BSR = 220 hp / 455 Nm
HEICIO = 210 hp / 460 Nm
MTE = 225hp / 480 Nm (Not available for the new S80/V70 II)

Simple fact is that the Euro 4 2006 onwards 2.4D and D5 re exactly the same engine, with software being the only difference. The old D5 and the new 2.4D are NOT the same engines, even though they produce the same power and torque in standard form, ie 163 hp / 340 Nm. This is what causes the confusion and is the reason why many people think the new 2.4D is just a rebadged old D5, it’s not!

I'm not exactly sure how MTE will leave any of the other tuners standing, by the looks of it they will be similar (suprise suprise) but with different characteristics.

To answer one of your first questions, I would definately buy the 2.4D as it will tune to the same power as the D5 but cost less. It is the same engine after all.

Old common failures were injectors and weak intercooler seals, however i have no idea if these have been rectified on the newer models. Perhaps a tech may be able to help you on that.

Hope that helps

Justin
Monday 1st September 2008, 21:07
they most certainly do not tune to the same output


you stand corrected sir :P

As do you ;)

tingy
Monday 1st September 2008, 21:35
As do you ;)

ooooooooou get the feeling sum1 doesnt like to be proved wrong

we are talking about phase 2 cars her arnt we (being the phase 2 section)

Justin
Monday 1st September 2008, 21:50
Lol, nothing of the sort, was just returning the favour ;)

Yes they are phase 2 cars, they didnt make any phase one D5's mate.

tingy
Tuesday 2nd September 2008, 06:51
ooooooooou get the feeling sum1 doesnt like to be proved wrong

we are talking about phase 2 cars her arnt we (being the phase 2 section)

o dear reasons one and two NOT to post when youve been in the pub since half 12

as for the phase 2 thing if any1 know wtf i was talking about or going with that can they please let me know cuz i dont remember much after 5pm yesterday least of all wtf thats on about

now whats a good hangover cure

Justin
Tuesday 2nd September 2008, 08:19
Lol :)

gtiteen
Tuesday 2nd September 2008, 09:43
You are correct about the 5 Series...........
My shortlist is V70/E-Class 320CDI Saloon/530 or 535D Tourer.

535d + DMS remap = 344bhp and 506lb ft :jaw:

T5R+
Tuesday 2nd September 2008, 18:43
FYI T5R+

To answer one of your first questions, I would definately buy the 2.4D as it will tune to the same power as the D5 but cost less. It is the same engine after all.

Excellent - unsurprisingly, you get it!

Additionally, thanks for listing the tuners and their power claims with respect to the different engine configurations - many others will also benefit from this summary AND it saved me undertaking the task.

MileMuncher
Friday 12th December 2008, 15:54
FYI T5R+

Here is a breakdown of the top 4 tuners (IMO) in no particular order.

D5 Euro 3 (2001-2005) - VIN code 79

[
RICA = 210 hp / 475 Nm (Sports Tune, can’t confirm the figures)


Where do i get myself one of these? RICA to me means nothing, is it the acual company 'RICA' who carry out the remap or do you have to go to indepentant RICA dealers?

Thanks for any advice - cheers

hamish
Friday 12th December 2008, 17:08
they most certainly do not tune to the same output




http://forums.t5d5.org/index.php?showtopic=3926

also

http://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showthread.php?t=57022&highlight=mte+d5

you stand corrected sir :P

They most certainly DO. I tuned a brand new 2.4D yesterday. It produced 160 standard with 303 Nm of torque. It tuned with OSCARLI software to an impressive 223 bhp and 449 Nm of torque.
It is the old 163 Euro 3 D5 that only tune to few HP short of 200. This has a different control, pump and turbo to the new car with the same output.
Incidentaly since we have been using Oscarli for our diesel tunes (well over a year now) we have had zero problems with either dead cars after tuning (checksumm error) ,excessive smoke (too much fuel), or drivetrain vibration (too much torque for Dual Mass Flywheel). In other words NON of the problems we had when tuning with RICA.
With regards tuning cars that are still in warranty......I wouldn't worry to much. I tune cars for franchised dealers and I have even tuned cars for Volvo UK in the last year!



Regards,
Hamish.

T5R+
Friday 12th December 2008, 17:30
Hamish

Hear what you say. Many franchised dealers have their cars "upgraded" - wonder how many take customers out for a test drive in them without telling them that the car is a "little special".

Whoever, if a franchised dealers cars gives issues, it is cheaper and easier for them to resolve, than private individuals. I am already totally p*ssed off with the Generation 3 D5 fuel economy, without POTENTIALLY incurring a headache whilst within warranty. Given the number of franchised dealers closing, any excuse to wriggle out of warranties will follow.

PW asked my permission to read the codes in my car for the Oscarli chip in readiness. I may still go down this route even whilst within warranty.

Hearing positive things about you - keep it up. :smile:

gazbak1
Friday 12th December 2008, 18:00
a chipped in warranty Volvo does void warranty i was told this by Volvo!

also just to add to the common failures of the 2.4/D5 of the late type. they have a plastic inlet manifold and inside the manifold are throttle butterfly's and the link arm for this will fail but is replaced under warranty with a uprated part.

hope this helps some people out

Gazbak1

Engineer
Friday 12th December 2008, 22:00
http://forums.t5d5.org/index.php?s=&showtopic=3414&view=findpost&p=62494