Turbo experts help/advice/opinions required! (please! lol!)

[pangster]

As most of you know - we had a rolling road day today at Dastek in Dalgety Bay. I've had a sneaky suspicion for sometime that my car wasn't making the power it should be.. (i want to get this ironed out before even looking at tuning it! lol!).

I fitted a boost gauge a little while ago and have noticed that it only boosts to around 8 or 9 psi - which seemed quite low to me? - i put this down to possibly being the bosot guage maybe not being accurate (as it was quite a cheap one) - but my print out shows that the boost reading is quite accurate - here's my plots:

http://www.paullynch.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/c70dyno1.jpg

http://www.paullynch.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/c70dyno2.jpg

my figures were 209 bhp (fly) and 226 lb.ft of torque which are pretty low - it's stock bar the exhaust and panel filter.. so with this in mind - what is the likely culprit?:

Faulty BCS
Faulty CBV
Worn/tired turbo
Wastegate actuator

or any other suggestions? lol?? - FWIW Yossers V70 T5 is stock (bar panel filter) and was hitting 12 psi - so i'm guessing its a boost related issue???

any help or suggestions would be good??

[PNuT]

if its holding its boost then my first thought would be actuator.....

[pangster]

if its holding its boost then my first thought would be actuator.....

does the boost plot look ok to you (apart from level)? - i'm still not too clued up on turbo's! lol!..

[PNuT]

looks ok to me, but im no boost expert either!!! the graph looks like *boost-bcs/ecu takes control-increases in the later rpms.... + its as high as it was at the end compaired to the start...

i still say actuator :)

[pangster]

looks ok to me, but im no boost expert either!!! the graph looks like *boost-bcs/ecu takes control-increases in the later rpms.... + its as high as it was at the end compaired to the start...

i still say actuator :)

is there a way of testing the actuator??

[PNuT]

is there a way of testing the actuator??

yes, you have to attach a pump with a gauge to the actuator & see at what PSI it opens & adjust if necessary...

[pangster]

yes, you have to attach a pump with a gauge to the actuator & see at what PSI it opens & adjust if necessary...

that sounds a bit too technical for me! lol!.. what should it open at (out of curiosity?)

[PNuT]

Engine Adjustment pressure:

B5204T 12.5 kPa
B5204T2 12.5 kPa
B5204T3 15 kPa
B5204T3 18 kPa
B5204T4 12.5 kPa
B5204T5 12.5 kPa
B5234T 12.5 kPa
B5234T2 30 kPa
B5234T3 30 kPa
B5234T4 12.5 kPa
B5234T4 R-line 28 kPa
B5234T5 12.5 kPa
B5234T6 30 kPa
B5234T7 12.5 kPa
B5234T8 30 kPa
B5244T2 30 kPa
B5244T3 12.5 kPa
B5254T 12.5 kPa

[pangster]

Engine Adjustment pressure:

B5204T 12.5 kPa
B5204T2 12.5 kPa
B5204T3 15 kPa
B5204T3 18 kPa
B5204T4 12.5 kPa
B5204T5 12.5 kPa
B5234T 12.5 kPa
B5234T2 30 kPa
B5234T3 30 kPa
B5234T4 12.5 kPa
B5234T4 R-line 28 kPa
B5234T5 12.5 kPa
B5234T6 30 kPa
B5234T7 12.5 kPa
B5234T8 30 kPa
B5244T2 30 kPa
B5244T3 12.5 kPa
B5254T 12.5 kPa

there's 2 for my engine code! lol! .. but roughly converted its around 2.5 psi?..

[PNuT]

its around that, its figures posted by bobcat on the VOC, i have no idea why there are 2 different pressures for your code! maybe one is 4.4 & one is me7 although i would expect a different code!! rufe maybe the person to ask ;)

[pangster]

its around that, its figures posted by bobcat on the VOC, i have no idea why there are 2 different pressures for your code! maybe one is 4.4 & one is me7 although i would expect a different code!! rufe maybe the person to ask ;)

lol! - thanks for that mate!!

[Yosser]

Is your engine not a B5234T3??

I can't quite remember all this but B= petrol, 5= 5 cylinders, 23= 2.3L, 4= 4 valves per cylinder, T= turbo, 3=?? :)

[pangster]

Is your engine not a B5234T3??

I can't quite remember all this but B= petrol, 5= 5 cylinders, 23= 2.3L, 4= 4 valver per cylinder, T= turbo, 3=?? :)

let me check on VADIS.. .

[pangster]

let me check on VADIS.. .

yep - well spotted! lol!.. it is a B5234T3 which means that it should be 30 kPa which is 4.35 psi..

[Yosser]

Ok, I don't have a scanner at home so I can't post up my graphs for comparison, but the shape of my boost graph looks to be *roughly* the same as yours.

At 3000rpm you show 8psi, I show 5.5 ??
at 3500 you're at about 8psi, I'm at 7 or 8.5 (different runs)
at 4000 you = 7.5, I = just under 9
at 5000 you = 8, I = 10.5
you peak around 5250 at just under 9, I peak around 5400 at just over 12

I think what I'm trying to say is, if you added 1 - 2 psi on your graph it wouldn't look much different to mine.

FWIW when I was chatting to the dyno operator he reckoned (from 1st hand experience) that plugging the drain hole in the intercooler is worth about 1psi.

I have no idea how the difference in boost would alter the power, and I also have no idea if thefact mine is an auto makes any difference??

[pangster]

Ok, I don't have a scanner at home so I can't post up my graphs for comparison, but the shape of my boost graph looks to be *roughly* the same as yours.

At 3000rpm you show 8psi, I show 5.5 ??
at 3500 you're at about 8psi, I'm at 7 or 8.5 (different runs)
at 4000 you = 7.5, I = just under 9
at 5000 you = 8, I = 10.5
you peak around 5250 at just under 9, I peak around 5400 at just over 12

I think what I'm trying to say is, if you added 1 - 2 psi on your graph it wouldn't look much different to mine.

FWIW when I was chatting to the dyno operator he reckoned (from 1st hand experience) that plugging the drain hole in the intercooler is worth about 1psi.

I have no idea how the difference in boost would alter the power, and I also have no idea if thefact mine is an auto makes any difference??

thanks yosser.. my car's fine.. drives ok and isn't exatly slow - but it's just annoying me know that i think there's something wrong! lol!..

i know what you mean about your boost curve as i compared it with mine.. but mine seems to stop short at 8 psi whilst yours keeps climbing - (see i told you i'd be happy with yours!! lol!)

i think i'll redo all my vacuum hoses, change the BCS (now that i know where it is! :rotfl:), check the CBV and then take it to get the waste gate actuator checked/adjusted if necessary (this should rule out anything else!? lol!)..

[Yosser]

As you know, I replaced the BCS only because I broke the one on the car. From memory, it was £40 ish from Murray Volvo in Sighthill - I'm sure Rufe will be able to sort you out.

The other option, and one I might have taken if the part was available at the time, is to buy one from IPD:

http://www.ipdusa.com/Volvo-S70V70-1998-2000/Performance/Heavy-Duty-Turbo-Control-Valve/p-128-372-4131/

..although I'm not entirely clear on what the performance improvement is (or the shipping cost).

They do rave about these on Volvospeed and Swedespeed. But maybe thats just 'cause they're all ravers :)

[pangster]

As you know, I replaced the BCS only because I broke the one on the car. From memory, it was £40 ish from Murray Volvo in Sighthill - I'm sure Rufe will be able to sort you out.

The other option, and one I might have taken if the part was available at the time, is to buy one from IPD:

http://www.ipdusa.com/Volvo-S70V70-1998-2000/Performance/Heavy-Duty-Turbo-Control-Valve/p-128-372-4131/

..although I'm not entirely clear on what the performance improvement is (or the shipping cost).

They do rave about these on Volvospeed and Swedespeed. But maybe thats just 'cause they're all ravers :)

PMSL!! - i'll look into it! - thanks Yosser! :smile:

[wegal]

Pangster, how did it compare to other stack cars that day, the reason i ask is that the air temp is very high, looks like a lovely warm day, its possible that the boost is down cos of the ambient air temp and therefore air density The turbo cant pressurise what isnt there. Maybe on a more average day ( 12 / 13 degrees) you would be boosting more PSI. there maybe a slight risk of trying to fix what aint broke and if you up the boost on a hot day then the boost will be even higher on a cold day which may end up in knocking and the ecu retarding the boost anyway. Just a thought.

Looking at the graphs they all look ok to me. You are running 345nm torque peak mine is an 06 me7 engine with a remap and im only running 450nm torque peak. I think all in all that everything is probably ok, the boost is coming in at the right time and holding, the BHP is good, AFR looks ok. Its not the map of an engine with a fault it looks more like the map of an engine in good condition thats got miles on it.

Just my 2 pennys worth, im not sure that there is anything wrong with it other than running a dyno on a very hot day. The ofsets on the dyno are not silly so i think thats the lack of boost and therefore perhaps a small drop in power, how much where you hoping for as a matter of interest ?

[pangster]

Pangster, how did it compare to other stack cars that day, the reason i ask is that the air temp is very high, looks like a lovely warm day, its possible that the boost is down cos of the ambient air temp and therefore air density The turbo cant pressurise what isnt there. Maybe on a more average day ( 12 / 13 degrees) you would be boosting more PSI. there maybe a slight risk of trying to fix what aint broke and if you up the boost on a hot day then the boost will be even higher on a cold day which may end up in knocking and the ecu retarding the boost anyway. Just a thought.

Looking at the graphs they all look ok to me. You are running 345nm torque peak mine is an 06 me7 engine with a remap and im only running 450nm torque peak. I think all in all that everything is probably ok, the boost is coming in at the right time and holding, the BHP is good, AFR looks ok. Its not the map of an engine with a fault it looks more like the map of an engine in good condition thats got miles on it.

Just my 2 pennys worth, im not sure that there is anything wrong with it other than running a dyno on a very hot day. The ofsets on the dyno are not silly so i think thats the lack of boost and therefore perhaps a small drop in power, how much where you hoping for as a matter of interest ?

thanks for the reply Wegal - the others seemed more or less bang on for the money:

1. Lugy, Lucas Brown, Saab 9000 2.3FPT standard, 211BHP 257ft/lbs
2. neil105,Neil Bob,astra gte turbo, no lambda, N/A ECU, 213 bhp, 217ft/lbs (smokin' hot)
3. Melv, Martin Lawson, Mk3 Astra SuperSport 133BHP, 137ft/lbs
4. Ivan22hoe - Ivan Power - Vectra Estate GSno 128BHP, 123ft/lbs
5. Gordy - 9000 Aero Maptun Stage 5+ 322BHP, 354ft/lbs (Mayor of Powertown)
6. StuF - 9-5 2.0LPT Hirsch Stage 1 209bhp, 236ft/lbs
7. Microcat36 - Saab 9000 V6 Auto, 214BHP (run in 4th gear and rev limiter not reached, some 800RPM short)
8. Dob 850R 237BHP,253ft/lbs
9. Tim V70D5 191BHP, 358ft/lbs (Torque Daddy, smog monster)
10. Colin S60T5 258BHP, 306ft/lbs
11. Roadrunner S60R 319BHP, 317ft/lbs
12. Pangster C70T5 209BHP,226ft/lbs
13. John Mitsubishi Gallant VR-4 241BHP, 255ft/lbs (fuel cut off reached early so boost drastically cut to compensate, "I coulda' been a contender").
14. Yosser V70T5 246BHP, 237ft/lbs
15. Edgey99 S60 242BHP, 248ft/lbs
16. Dream3r S60T5 246BHP, 244ft/lbs
17. JaseB C70T5 246BHP, 294ft/lbs

i'll check what the ambient temps were on their plots..

I wasn't sure what to expect r.e. bhp though - since i've had the boost gauge installed its never hit more than 9 PSI.. my cars done 106k and Yossers V70 T5 has done 130k and it got more or less what i thought i would have got from a stock car.. although his manages to hit 12 PSI no problem! lol!..

[wegal]

Hey mate, yeah it does look a bit down on BHP compared to Yosser, but look at the torque, there is nothing in it between yours and his. Torque is what matters not bhp, bhp is just a function of torque and revs ( IIRC ). Anyway if you want 12psi then why not get a MBC and a accurate boost gauge ? Might be cheaper than chasing a fault that may not be there, its possible that your car has never run 12 psi.

Are you sure you dont have a boost leak some where ?