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markt4
Saturday 16th April 2005, 14:43
me again :dunce: yous will be getting sick of me :B_blite: ,my problem now is a pipe has split!!its the one where the d/v goes into , it has a t peice on it and the bit that has split goes down towards the back of the engine , the jubilee clip has split it , does any1 know what this pipe is called or the parts number for it , as ill renew the whole section where the d/v has been added , also this happened when i was doing abot 50mph, and couldnt stop straight away , i patched it up best i could, still a major hole init, but when i started the car up again there was black smoke comming out of exhaust , will this mean anything? i drove home slowly but you can here it sucking air and it kept cutting out.any1 know the price of this pipe also , better still any1 got one for sale by any slim chance???
thanks
mark

Ross9
Saturday 16th April 2005, 18:21
Hard to take a guess at what pipe it is, but its definately not the same one the DV is in on jacqs T4.

If it goes down towards the back of the engine, it sounds like the DV has been put in the pipe coming off of the turbo, ie between the turbo's outlet and the intercooler. Black smoke is unburnt fuel, nothing to worry about, most likely caused by the split in this pipe as your losing air, same thing happened to my own car when it used to blow the IC to throttle body hose off. You lose boost pressure but the fuel for the compressed air is still being added, so as it splits the mix goes rich and you get the black smoke, its not good for your cat though, will kill it quickly, though drivign slowly and under little load should keep the mix ok as your not on boost anyway.

This could also be the source of your initial problems with the car, if it was starting to split a bit and was leaking boost from here rather then the DV as you were thinking.

If it was me, I would get this pipe replaced and leave it whole. Then put the DV in the large U shaped pipe at the front of the engine, joining the throttle body to the outlet from the intercooler. If you still feel the dump valve is a problem on your car as well as this split pipe, the Forge DV from Kalmar Union comes all made up with a U bend pipe already, so you just fit the whole thing in place of the U bend pipe on there.

So in short, if you want to replace the pipe thats split, AND the dv, buy the Kalmar Union one, and get the new turbo outlet pipe from the dealer, fit both of this and you should be sorted, however, it could be there is nothing wrong with your dump valve an it was this split starting to form that caused the problem in the first place, so replacing that pipe, and then cutting the DV into the front U shaped pipe would be a cheaper option, however, IIRC, the pipe at the back is of a notable smaller diameter than the U shaped one at the front.

Also, the cutting out will be caused by this split, you are probabyl getting vaccuum issues or bad fuel air mix due to losing air through the split, it's blowing air through the split rather than sucking it.

NB- for the purposes of this post I have assumed the pipe you are talking about is the one coming off of the compressor housing of the turbo, comes straight up from teh back of the engine as you described, so have based my comments on this assumption.

Ross

I couldnt comment on the part number, but a dealer will be able to source the part for you by looking at the engine.

markt4
Sunday 17th April 2005, 07:57
cheers ross ill get the pipe from the dealers on monday and take it from there

siamblue
Sunday 17th April 2005, 12:43
Mark,SOunds like all you need is a 1 metre of 3mm or 5mm depending on size of silicone hose,That's what i use on mine.

Ross9
Monday 18th April 2005, 00:18
3 or 5mm silicone hose?

Best I can gether from his post, it is not the pipe that controls the DV that is split, its the one the DV is situated in, which from his description sounds like the pipe coming up from the turbo at the back of the engine, a very stran place to put the DV to be honest, but thats what it sounds like from his description.

Ideally a picture would help, but if I have understood correctly, I cant see how any 3 or 5mm silicon hose will help???

Ross

siamblue
Monday 18th April 2005, 00:26
If it has a t piece on it going to the back of the engine,then i assumed it was a vac hose,Maybe its the I/C to Turbo hose.
Pics would identify it for sure.

Ross9
Monday 18th April 2005, 00:56
Yeah I thought that was what you were thinking. You could be right, as you say a pic would help identify exactly what it is thats split.

Ross

markt4
Monday 18th April 2005, 09:10
hope these are clear enough...is the last pic where the d/v should go

markt4
Monday 18th April 2005, 09:16
pic 2 is where the pipe goes into at back of engine

Ross9
Monday 18th April 2005, 11:03
Ok, pics have helped to clarify the situation

It is as I had thought, the DV has been put in the turbo to IC pipe, IMO, not the best idea in the world in my opinion, due to complexity and nuisance more than anything else.

Anyway, not to worry. The DV you have is the same one Jacq has, only it has not come with a kit to fit it to the other location I mentioned.

So, first things first.

Get down to Volvo, get a new hose for the rear of the engine, that bit of where it goes into the back of the engine, isn't the engine, thats the compressor housing of your turbo, the compressed air comes out of there. Take care not to drop anything in there while you have it uncovered, the tiniest piece of metal could do damage. Fit that and leave it as it was always meant to be :)

Thats the pipe taken care of, but now you have no DV.

Now, ideally you would want to t-piece that DV into the IC to inlet hose, however, due to the shape of it, it may prove a pain and again lead to split hoses caused by badly angled jubilee clips, so if it was me, I would buy the Kalmar Union kit purely because it comes with the DV already in the pipe. In pic 4 the U bend hose I am talking about is shown, the Kalmar Union kit will come with a hose that shape, with a DV in, simply swap the pipes over and connect the blue silicon hose (with a lot of it cut off as it will be much closer to the nipple) to the DV.

Finally, also in the kit will be a small blanking plate with 3 holes, check that the original DV has indeed been removed and blanked off already, it should have been, but going by the position of the DV, you best not assume anything lol. However, there does not appear to be a vaccuum line coming from the inlet and going towards where the original standard DV is located, worth checking anyway.

Now, in pic 2 where the hole is that the pipe went on to, this is your turbo, as regards looking at the picture on a screen, if you go up and to the right a tad, ie 1 o'clock if the hole was the centre of a watch, you see 2 pipes kind of crossing, just above the hole in the pic, under here is where the standard DV would have been, there should now be a metal plate there instead, if there is still a sort of small cylinder there, with a spot for a vaccuum hose to go on, then you want to unbolt the 3 bolts holding it on, and fit the blanking plate that came with the DV kit I mentioned before. This can be very fiddly depending on what tools you have at your disposal, oh, and do it when the engine is cool or you will burn your hands on the turbo, dont laugh, we were in a rush to go to a show down in London with Jacqs and I had to refit her Forge DV (it was off for warrranty work..naughty lol) with no time to wait for it to cool down, few toasted arm hairs lol.

Sorry it was a long post, just trying to give as much detail as possible, it's too easy to assume someone will know what your on about, hope this helps

Ross

markt4
Monday 18th April 2005, 11:50
cheers ross just checked it (ill get some photos shortly to make sure) but there look like there is no blanking plate there , if its the bit where the hole is on pic 2 to the right side underneath hole lol ffs it has a nib on it where it looks like a small hose could fit on to it any how ill take some pics orderd pipe from mill volvo today wont be in till tomorrow and emailed don , hopefully this is it and by friday ill have a very fit t4 :sinner:

Ross9
Monday 18th April 2005, 18:48
Hi Mark, yeah that lot should sort you out.

To aid in your diagnosis heres some pics of how it is on Jacqs T4.

Firstly, Volvo will get you the pipe, and it will look like this when its on.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/Ross9/CompressorOutletPipe.jpg

Heres a couple of pics trying to show you where you should find the blanking plate, or if it isnt fitted, the original DV. Not the best of pics to show it as I said it is fiddly to get to, especially with a ratchet or spanner to actually fit the plate lol, so I had to pull the pipes out the way with one hand and take the pic with the other lol

Blanking plate is the shiny bit next to my hand, hope the engine corner in the pic lets you guage the location of it.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/Ross9/BlankingPlate2.jpg

and heres a different angle, only just showing the edge of the plate, with the aforementioned pipe coming off of the turbo as a reference point.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/Ross9/BlankingPlate1.jpg

and finally, heres what the Kalmar Union DV kit looks like when its in place

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/Ross9/KalmarUnionDVKit.jpg

Hope these are also of aid to clarify the blanking plate issue.

PS-Jacq is ashamed and apologises for the dirty engine bay, salty roads in Scotland over winter and the bay hasnt been cleaned since the gritters stopped rolling this year lol

Ross

markt4
Monday 18th April 2005, 18:52
well took that part off , hope this needed to come off as it took an hour lol :cussing: pipes pulled out everywhere lol


if that did need to come off , and a blanking plate fitted , a ripped hose which will be replaced tommorow , and ive sent my check off to don for new d/v this is gonna be like a new car i hope (power wise)
i cant wait!!!! so with all that that was wrong with it , how much would that of effected the motor??

Ross9
Monday 18th April 2005, 19:38
It seems that part of your problem is that your mechanic appears to be a small child... :slap:

Seriously though, Yeah thats the standard DV you have removed, where that came off of is where you want to fit the blanking plate that comes with Don's kit.

Ripped hose would have been leaking boost, wont have helped performance if it had a small tear for a while before tearing.

Standard DV still in place, although not attatched to a vaccuum hose, would most likely also have been leaking a bit of boost, depending on spring strenght etc.

So, when you have replaced the ripped pipe, fitted the new DV and kit etc, you should be getting proper boost and no vaccuum issues etc, and the car, fingers crossed should be a much different animal.

When you get round to having a boost guage fitted it should be reading 13psi (0.9 bar) as standard, and the car will give you a smile at that :)

Keep us updated as to how you get on.

Ross

markt4
Friday 22nd April 2005, 10:40
wow all done and it feels greeeaaattt!!! its like a new car , power is unbelivible , its also sorted the cutting out at junctions :bounce:the only bad thing is (but it aint a problem as am happy as larry lol) tried my old d/v on new pipe and theres nothing wrong with it so its in the for sale section if any 1 intrested all i can say is a big thanks to u all for your help , and ill buy u all beer whos going to loch lomand , but im afraid all u t5 guys n gals r gonna get a lashing on the way up (motorway) off the t4 lol, im that confident

markt4
Friday 22nd April 2005, 12:05
pic of new d/v on

siamblue
Friday 22nd April 2005, 12:22
That's a whole lot better place for the D/V,
Glad you sorted it eventually.

Ross9
Friday 22nd April 2005, 23:19
Smashing mate, I look forward to seeing it at the Loch Lomond meet :) , glad its all sorted, goes much better when its getting all its boost eh ;)

Ross