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T-5ones
Tuesday 3rd October 2006, 23:16
Been to the stealers and had codes read and recall issues sorted. Was recommended to have the throttle body cleaned and software updated for the ETM.:shifty:

I have had a brief check up on the issue and (I think) volvo will pay for the software update after they have cleaned the throttle body, twice, under the extended warranty. But this is for cars under 100K - Arse! Was quoted about £100 for the job.

So to cut a long story short... Anyone taken the etm off and cleaned it themselves? If so, how easy a job is it to get to?

Vikingxl
Wednesday 4th October 2006, 08:08
I know wobbly was taking a look at one a while back if thats any help

dreadly
Wednesday 4th October 2006, 12:43
I cleaned one with a can of carb cleaner spray, but it shagged up!

I'm no mechanic!

Wobbly Dave
Wednesday 4th October 2006, 12:49
cleaning them will not make any difference as it is the potentiometers at either end that go wrong. Cleaning the butterfly valve will not make any difference IMHO

T-5ones
Wednesday 4th October 2006, 13:02
I value your honest opinion Dave. Do you think getting the software update will help the running or is it just a less sensitive warning setting?

As i get fed a big loads of bullpoo from the stealers, I never know when anything is the truth. (Very much my personal opinion. There are very good volvo agents out there. I just wished I lived near one of them!!) IF it were going to help I'd get the work done/do it myself.

Dreadly, I had read about the over agressive solvents problems, so you are not the only one. It is these very reasons that I'm being so causious.

Wobbly Dave
Wednesday 4th October 2006, 15:38
I dont know what is involved in this software update? all I know is what I saw when I dissected a broken one. Possibly the update will make the pots less sensitive but ultimately it is a physical design flaw that is the single point of failure.

dreadly
Wednesday 4th October 2006, 15:44
Dreadly, I had read about the over agressive solvents problems, so you are not the only one. It is these very reasons that I'm being so causious.

Actually, I think I used Brake cleaner! - But I thought it would be the same as cleaning the hotwire Air Mass Meter on my old 760, it wasn't!

It made the 760 run a lot sweeter though.

rgracin
Wednesday 4th October 2006, 16:17
It's worth a try. My car was suffering from a hunting idle, and flat spots during acceleration. New ETM I thought, but before shelling out for one, I took my existing one off and cleaned it.

There was loads of gunk in it, and as the butterfly is slightly open in its 'home' position, I'm geussing this is for the idle. With all the gunk around it, the gap for the air is smaller which means it could not reach the correct idle speed. It would almost stall, and the 'brain' would sense this and compensate bouncing the revs up to around 1500, it would then drop down to almost stalling and so it would go on.

The cleaning meant that it could idle correctly.

It contradicts Wobbly's opinion, but it definately worked, and has been fine for the last 15k miles!!

T-5ones
Wednesday 4th October 2006, 17:06
Thanks for all the input.

It is a tiny problem and hardly noticable at the moment and may not even be the ETM which is at fault. I am servicing and getting the car up to A1 spec. This is just one of the wee things that are being investigated.

Tim

dreadly
Wednesday 4th October 2006, 17:29
Thanks for all the input.

It is a tiny problem and hardly noticable at the moment and may not even be the ETM which is at fault. I am servicing and getting the car up to A1 spec. This is just one of the wee things that are being investigated.

Tim

My car started hunting at idle and got hard to start on cold days, a software update and a new set of sparky plugs cured all.

Blewis
Saturday 7th October 2006, 09:23
Whooaa there boy.

Don't pay for the upgrade/cleaning!

Ive been meaning to post about mine. I've just had (a week ago) it done.

As part of the "unofficial recall...." It went into the garage for the ETM clean and software upgrade. Booked as a 2 hour job, and apparently it is 2 hours...

It's FREE, I had the confirmation from Volvo after I tore a strip off them. My Local Stealer (Harratts ...) told me I was talking bo**ocks etc etc etc... But then again they are the same stealer's who have just changed a clutch on another volvo I know of and <cough> forgot to bolt the engine back in :jaw:

As part of the upgrade they HAVE to do the ETM clean and PCV clean (as I understand it)

My car is a P2 and had 128k on it when the upgrade was done, and the difference is quite frankly amazing! i'll fully admit I had a scrap on my hands, but mainly due to the lack of information from my local stealer and volvo's lack of prompt assistance.

However, I can FULLY recommend John Morris Motors (Volvo Dealer) in Grimsby - (01472) 200888 who were the ones who did my upgrade, the service is exceptional, they are friendly and helpful to boot. They are 100 miles from me, and i'll now travel to my parents just to use them ;)

Unfortunately as part of the work they did, they took the high pressure line from the PAS pump and on re-asembley shagged the O Ring... which a week later led to a bad leak which ended up with a nice tow on a yellow aa wagon BUT most importantly the Dealer has been incredibly helpful in resolving the issue to my satisfaction (and trust me thats hard!) S*it happens, but they've done themselves proud on that one with their attitude!

I've also got a copy of the 39page! Tech Bulletin for the upgrade which I <cough> obtained from someone (and not the dealer) and I also have an email from Volvo Customer Services UK (Below).. PM me if you are interested but the email from Volvo is below ;)

Reply from Veronica confirming the original email is correct


Thank you for your e-mail below. The same applies to you as to the
customer to whom I sent my original e-mail. Should you be experiencing
difficulties with your car such as the warning messages of 'check
engine' or 'ETS' or even experience uneven engine idling before the
upgrade is available, please do take your car to your local Volvo
Authorised dealer who can diagnose if the symptoms are related to the
ETS. It is possible that other issues may exhibit similar
characteristics but in any event the car should be taken to an
Authorised Volvo dealer or repair centre to ensure correct diagnosis.

We are in the process of rolling out the upgraded software and it may or
may not be available for your car. Your dealer has access to details of
vehicles that do have the upgraded software currently available. You do
not say which dealer you have taken your car to or to whom it was you
spoke. If you are able to give us this information we can bring your
disappointment to their attention and ask them to address it with you.

We will keep your details on record and if appropriate we will inform
you as soon as the software is available for your specific car.

Veronica Knight
Customer Relations Consultant



Thank you for your e-mail below. The unit does not meet emission laws in
the USA and therefore under their laws they have offered an extended
warranty on the part. The part meets our emission laws and we have no
intention at the moment to launch any similar action here in the UK.
Should we do so you would be informed.

If you are experiencing difficulties with your car, whatever they may
be, we would always recommend that you take your car to your local Volvo
Authorised dealership for investigation, diagnosis and repair. Any
accident arising after you have noticed a problem and not had repairs
carried out would be your responsibility. Your local Volvo Authorised
dealer can diagnose if the symptoms are related to the ETS. It is
possible that other issues may exhibit similar characteristics but in
any event the car should be taken to an Authorised Volvo dealer or
repair centre to ensure correct diagnosis.

Volvo do not consider the issue to be safety related and like many other
manufacturers, will only use 'limp mode' under very specific conditions
to prevent damage to the car and more importantly to allow the driver to
stay in control of their vehicle but with reduced acceleration and top
speed. Limp mode is designed so that the car does not come to a sudden
halt and can still be driven to a position of safety. (There are varying
levels of limp, depending on driving style some drivers will notice
little difference, whilst others may detect a slight performance
reduction. Only in certain scenarios is Mechanical Limp Mode activated
which restricts the speed of the car.)

As your car is one of those that may be potentially affected by the
issue raised on Watchdog in February 2006 Volvo Car UK Limited would
like to arrange for your car to be upgraded with new software to improve
the performance of the ETS. The new software is going to improve the
operation of the ETS, however, if the ETM is faulty it will not cure it
as this is an electrical component and as with any component it may
fail. Your dealer is best placed to determine what is going to be
necessary to repair your car once they have had an opportunity to
inspect it.

We are in the process of rolling out the updated software and your
dealer will be able to tell you whether it is currently available for
your car or not. If not we will be in contact nearer the time to arrange
a convenient time for the software to be installed free of charge. At
the same time as the software upgrade we will take the opportunity to
clean the throttle body and check the engine crankcase ventilation
system of your Volvo. All of the this work will be carried out free of
charge by your Volvo dealer.

Experience to date shows that some cars submitted for this work have
been suffering from other faults or failures within the engine
management system. It is therefore important that your Volvo Dealer
checks your car for any Diagnostic Codes prior to commencing work for
the software upgrade. Any such additional work would not be covered by
our goodwill gesture.

As with all components the ETS can be subject to failure. As the ETS is
not subject to a recall in the UK we would view any failures on a
goodwill basis dependent age, mileage, denied usage and loyalty to the
dealership network as demonstrated by a full Volvo dealership serving
history. If the diagnosis is that there is a problem with the ETS (it is
possible that other issues may exhibit similar characteristics) there
are several measures that the dealer can perform to resolve the issue
they can clean & refit the ETM; they can replace it with a new one;
apply the ETS software upgrade when it becomes available.

Your dealer will be able to contact us to discuss your case at which
time we will be better able to determine whether we have a
responsibility to assist with any costs involved and if so, to what
degree.

Veronica Knight
Customer Relations Consultant

T-5ones
Saturday 7th October 2006, 11:54
Oh mate, you are a feckin star!!!!!!!

Yes pleeeeeeeease can I have any info you got on the issue and maybe a few tips on how to go about the issue the correct way as you have been through it just recently.

I have been trying to read up on it but read that as mine is over 100K it wouldnt apply.

I'm so glad that you have a fantastic volvo dealer fairly locally. I knew there were some out there!

One question... If they have accepted liability of the fault, if the etm fails at some point in the future, will they replace it free of charge as well?

Many, many thanks.

Tim

Blewis
Saturday 7th October 2006, 12:55
You have mail & PM :deal: :B_steerin

blackwolf t5
Saturday 7th October 2006, 14:11
What year T5's is this applicable to?

adriancole
Saturday 7th October 2006, 14:59
What year T5's is this applicable to?

1998-2002

Blewis
Saturday 7th October 2006, 17:08
What year T5's is this applicable to?

According to The TechNet Note:



NO: 25-149-A
DATE: 04-03-06

REFERENCE:
VIDA SMB 25-23 TNN 25-149-B TNN 25-149-C TNN 25-149-D
TNN 25-149-E TNN 37-22 SB 37-0015

MODEL/YEAR:
C70 1999-2002
S70 1999-2000
S60 2001 all engine variants, 2002 non-turbo only.
V70 1999-2001 all engine variants, 2002 non-turbo only.
V70XC, 1999-2000
XC70 2001
S80 1999-2001

blackwolf t5
Saturday 7th October 2006, 17:36
How can I tell if this or any other recall issues have or have not been dealt with on my car? Late 2001 V70 T5 SE Geartronic.

T-5ones
Saturday 7th October 2006, 23:18
How can I tell if this or any other recall issues have or have not been dealt with on my car? Late 2001 V70 T5 SE Geartronic

I took mine in to the stealers for the abs light to be turned off, see previous thread, and codes to be checked/read. They did all that was asked but wouldnt let the car out untill the radiator fan was changed as it was subject to a recall. I guess they know when its plugged in. No charge just took an hour longer than expected.

T-5ones
Sunday 8th October 2006, 19:38
Oh, jees! What a can of worms this faulty ETM business is.

try reading up here for starters... http://www.vexedvolvo.org/

Dont give in and dont pay for software seems to be a good start when etm issues arise.


"It (volvo) also plans to introduce a software upgrade from April 2006 onwards, which will reduce the likelihood of issues with the ETM. Volvo says it will make this available, at no charge, to customers with affected cars who contact their customer relations department."

adriancole
Sunday 8th October 2006, 20:00
my etm started to fail, they cleaned it up, put new software in and within a week the ets light started to come on......luck of the draw.......in all honesty it does depend on how much wear there is on the potentioemeter thingy to start with before the cleaning and software.....they all fail in the end, just differs when.....

Blewis
Sunday 8th October 2006, 20:23
But unfortunately so many people in the UK are unaware of their rights under consumer law so will quite happily bend over for the shafting that is liable to come from the dealer for the replacement ETM. I don't care what people say about should/shouldn't fail, the simple fact is that for a major component to have such a fault which shows up regularly and for volvo to have redesigned them and they already knew about the failure as per vexed volvo.. tut tut.

I'm quite happy to abuse them via the county courts over the issue. I've been reliably informed that they will roll over rather than fight

a - It's cheaper
b - they don't want a "precedent" as such, much the same as the banks about the charges they make which are unlawful.

nurvware
Monday 9th October 2006, 20:45
It's worth a try. My car was suffering from a hunting idle, and flat spots during acceleration. New ETM I thought, but before shelling out for one, I took my existing one off and cleaned it.

There was loads of gunk in it, and as the butterfly is slightly open in its 'home' position, I'm geussing this is for the idle. With all the gunk around it, the gap for the air is smaller which means it could not reach the correct idle speed. It would almost stall, and the 'brain' would sense this and compensate bouncing the revs up to around 1500, it would then drop down to almost stalling and so it would go on.

The cleaning meant that it could idle correctly.

It contradicts Wobbly's opinion, but it definately worked, and has been fine for the last 15k miles!!


Any pictures of what i need to clean as i too have eratic idle, servicesed yesterday with new plugs but still a bit lumpy.

Thanks.

nez
Tuesday 10th October 2006, 14:04
Will this upgrade affect the RICA ECU upgrade?
If I call the local dealer do they have a list of cars upgraded, mine seems to be ok but it would be nice to know if it has been done already.

T-5ones
Tuesday 10th October 2006, 16:24
Will this upgrade affect the RICA ECU upgrade?
Dont think so, although a real pain if it does get wiped I think you can get RICA re installed FOC.


If I call the local dealer do they have a list of cars upgraded, mine seems to be ok but it would be nice to know if it has been done already.
Not sure, but I recon, if it aint broke dont worry about it...yet :worried:

nez
Wednesday 11th October 2006, 10:47
"if it ain't broke don't worry about it"

What I live by.

jim
Saturday 14th October 2006, 09:18
Basic precis which I'm sure someone will correct where its wrong.

There is a problem with the ETM failing in later model cars. Approx 1999-2002.

One aspect of this is the pcv getting clogged and dumping oil throug the intake system on to the ETM and the fact it generaly gets covered in crap.

There is another problem with early ETM's that they wore physically and failed at about 30-60k.

The early models I think had a white ETM sticker and are the ones where wear means they require replacement as cleaning won't solve the problem. All cars that have already had a replacement should have a yellow sticker, these have better internal parts and cleaning should work.


Volvo produced 2 fixes for this;

1. Revised ETM

The change from white to yellow sticker. This gives a more robust etm and failures requiring replacement of these are a lot less down to approx 10-15%. These do however still require cleaning.

2. Revised software for ETM:

Due to one of the problems being the softwares sensitivity to small fluctuations in signals when dirt even a relatively small amount builds up fault signals can be sent. As Volvo use a sophisticated EMS this was another area problems started to show up. Various signals meant the EMS started compensating for perceived faults and would start effecting boost control, throttle position etc etc. All of these lead to some form of performance loss. Not all show the codes on the car to diagnose why there is a problem.

To counter this Vovlo released a software update which basicaly desensitises the ETM signals, this smooths them and allows a greater tolerance and better reliability.

A large number of people who have had this done report better performance, smooth changing on auto's etc. If you have an auto the other issue this addressed was the removal of the neutral shift when you come to a stop. This improves transmission life.

One issue with the software update is it resets to default a whole host of settings including some in the ECU re etm returns. If your car is "chipped" this then reverses that. Unless your "chipped" software is then updated and reloaded it will not work. If it is not updated everytime you reload it it will overwrite the ETM sofware and vice versa. I think TME, Upsolute, RICA and a couple of others were all looking at this in US and coming up with a solution that allowed the ETM update and kept the performance.

In uk volvo were still rushing around telling everyone there were no problems and they were just unlucky the etm failed.

In US there is a recall for all original ETM's, the software update and in some cases cleaning. Over here it is v. quiet on this.

Love to know from UK tuners if there software is compatible with the update and if anyone has either had it done or been offered it.

I spent ?500 fixing this a couple of years ago and its due to crap Volvo design, poor spec parts that contained small parts that wear well before their expected life. It s a volvo rip off. Love to know what the current position is espcially as we now have a load more P2 owners.

Be aware you don't want to be overtaking a line of lorries on a dual carriageway at 70-80mph with cars accelerating behind you and go into limp home mode and be limited to 30mph and relying on everyone behind you to slow down!
________
Free Burger King Gift Cards (http://bestfreegiftcard.com/burger-king-gift-cards/)

T-5ones
Wednesday 18th October 2006, 17:28
The word from Volvo is: As of 6.10.06 Volvo cars will pay for the cleaning and software update of the ETM at the main stealers, on "affected" cars on "their list."

It smells a bit of bull poo to me!

Basically if you have poor running issues and the codes confirm, the worst you can do is ask politely for the work to be done free of charge, if it isnt offered. The issue is this Magneti Marelli ETM which is a piss poor design and if it has to be replaced, is going to be replaced with another similar part:cuckoo: .

Volvo customer services are having a bad time at the moment due to many issues including volume of correspondence and "administration issues" so they are taking ages to reply.

I tried to be Mr nice but it got a bit messy in the end:cussing: . The crunch was that I had the car in before 6.10.06, so they were going to charge me for the work. The stealer wants to put things right now and has booked the car in to have the work done.

Thanks to all the folks for the inside tech info regarding the issue:deal:. You know who you are.:)

Updated 15.11.06

Volvo UK confirmed the software update batch was released and available for my car on the 15th Sept'06. So this business of the software not being available for my car by the dealer was utter crap.

Volvo uk still took 23 days to respond to my last e-mail.

I'm glad some people have good local dealers and are not having an problems.

gjb71
Wednesday 15th November 2006, 16:52
just to let u know that not all main stealers try and pull the wool over ur eyes. booked my 2001 t5 93k on the clock into stratstone oldham for a diagnostics following uneven idle, they confirmed my fears that the codes were showing etm probs and advised a new unit which would cost fitted £630 or the possible clean up costing around £100.

when discussing options with the service guy i let him know that i had already done a bit of research and was aware of reliability issues with this part, he advised that he would contact volvo and that i contact volvo re the possible cleaning and re-programmin which i have just done.

customer service tel 0845 756 4636

spoke to a very nice man darren who within 2 mins and no arguing told me to contact stratstone book the car in and they would authorise the clean up job.
so its booked in for fri and all for freeeeeeeee.

will let u know if it sorts the probs out.

T-5ones
Wednesday 15th November 2006, 21:54
Glad all is going well. Hopefully not only the idle problems will be sorted on yours but it will go a hell of a lot better once its done.

adriancole
Thursday 3rd July 2008, 17:57
Volvo now replace the ETM for £200 when it starts to go...am now on my third.....

HSS786
Thursday 3rd July 2008, 18:19
just to let u know that not all main stealers try and pull the wool over ur eyes. booked my 2001 t5 93k on the clock into stratstone oldham for a diagnostics following uneven idle, they confirmed my fears that the codes were showing etm probs and advised a new unit which would cost fitted £630 or the possible clean up costing around £100.

when discussing options with the service guy i let him know that i had already done a bit of research and was aware of reliability issues with this part, he advised that he would contact volvo and that i contact volvo re the possible cleaning and re-programmin which i have just done.

customer service tel 0845 756 4636

spoke to a very nice man darren who within 2 mins and no arguing told me to contact stratstone book the car in and they would authorise the clean up job.
so its booked in for fri and all for freeeeeeeee.

will let u know if it sorts the probs out.

Hello there my ETM was replaced by Volvo Sturgess Leicester, very friendly people, well the ETM failed a month back following symptoms of uneven idling, i thought it was the MAF as the car was driving fine but it was very sluggish, drove the car with the MAF unplugged for about 2 weeks the car was very responsive and drove as it should.

This prompted me to change the MAF so i replaced, within 2 days of replacing the MAF the car felt the same sluggish way as it was before, after a few more days the ETM failed, the car went into limp home mode, with the uneven idling, booked into volvo for an ETM clean/inspection this was free.

After inspecting the ETM the mechanic came with the conclusion that the ETM was jammed and that it was time fora new replacment ETM, Volvo told me that the ETM costed out £600- £500 but Volvo would pay 20% and the Dealer another 20% so the cost came down to £250.

After the ETM was replaced the car was very smooth, responsive with no flat spots etc, it even improved my MPG as I gettin 14-15 MPG, I now get about 17 MPG

Thanks

screwloose
Monday 1st September 2008, 18:34
Mine was playing up slightly, had the FOC software & clean in November last

since then it has been worse, sometimes it just cuts out, sometimes cuts out whilst i am turning a corner ( scary ) , or parking

kangarooing down the road till yea get past 2000rpm, its a joke. once past 2k its all good, PITA

was told a month or 2 ago it would be £280 at Warrington ( Rybrooks ), found them very unfriendly to say the least. especially when i told them it had gone worse since they cleaned it and put the software patches in.

anyone doing this cheaper in Warrington & surrounding areas, i am self employed and due to the current trend in building trades, i am skint..lol

BigShrek
Wednesday 3rd September 2008, 20:26
i was heading home the other day and the car stalled at the lights, i re started it the ets light came on and it wouldn't rev about 3,000 and stalled again. I left it for about 5mins and started it, but it was bouncing the idle almost trying to stall and it was a nightmare trying to get back home (not knowing the fault) it was struggling to accelerate, turbo was making a hell of a noise too..

contacted volvo, they said it might be the ETM and would clean it for free.... I' just hoping it is.
Does it sound like it is?

Rufe
Wednesday 3rd September 2008, 21:52
yes, it certainly sounds like it mate.

BigShrek
Thursday 4th September 2008, 04:34
cheers, fingers crossed :)

cornclose
Thursday 4th September 2008, 07:29
Exactly the same symptoms I had. Exactly...

[Edit] I should add that the ETM Clean and Software Update solved the problem for me - although not without a side effect, which is that the throttle response was 'dampened' somewhat compared to before the update. This was very noticable when first driving the car after the update was done - but I'm used to it now.

I certainly did have to re-learn how to drive it though, it was that different.

Laserowl
Saturday 8th November 2008, 20:19
Hi Blewis

Pease send us the details m8, still got the S80 T6 1998 with 125K on it. Just starting to get a rough idle. Runs mainly on LPG but Do use it on Petrol now and then.

I know it hasn't had the update or clean, but been the T6, while its not broke I dont mess. Cost me much wonga already.....

Cheers

Wayne