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DONKEYT5
Thursday 31st March 2005, 17:07
Right.here goes, time to cause some controversy! :yikes:
Whilst speaking to a reputable volvo specialist, i asked him about the myth that is Police Spec t5's, I wanted to know exactly the spec of the cars they use. I work alongside the police and i have spoken to police mechanincs who claim they dont do anything to them.
So this is what i believed until i was told this yesterday, (please bear in mind, the guy had nothing to gain by telling me porkies, because i already have my t5 ex plod and he seemed spot on with other info and advice he has given me)
He told me that Volvo had a second production line for police cars ordered by various police forces, and obviously they were bought in bulk so were therefore a lot cheaper, but volvo also used a mish-mash of parts for the cars(interiors etc) hence non-matching interiors, they also put the 302mm brake disks on there, but the thing that blew me away was the ecu.....we have all heard the 'police chip' story, well in effect it is true, the ecu's used in all police volvos are the 'r' chip and are marked up as t5......i was sceptical but like i said,it also explains why the police dont know any different too, and believe they are standard.What beneficial gain would he get from lying? This explains 2 weeks ago, i raced a v70 t5 (non plod) on the m60 and i annihilated him and i couldnt understand why, i have only got dump valve and strut brace, everything else is standard! He was really annoyed and didnt even acknowledge me when i let him past. Well, i have probably bored ya now, but dont shoot the messenger, im just relaying information...i found it very interesting, hope u do too!
thanx, Don!
ps has anyone been on a dyno with an ex plod t5, to prove some results????

Murphy
Thursday 31st March 2005, 17:10
I think every force was different. I don't think Volvo did anything from factory, but that is not to say a 3rd party didn't make various mods. Interesting stuff though.

Mrsmopp
Thursday 31st March 2005, 17:13
I take it your mechanic is a volvo specialist and worked for the police? If not how could he possibly know that?

It's all hearsay - if you listen to "reputable people" you will hear a million different versions of police spec cars - some even say that they only used T5R's :slap:

x

DONKEYT5
Thursday 31st March 2005, 17:21
i agree completely, but at the same time, i cant understand why mine completely destroyed the v70 t5 and he was pushin hard! anyway it makes interesting discussion!!!

Mrsmopp
Thursday 31st March 2005, 17:25
I dont mean to sound so negative about it but when you have had the discussion as many times as I have LOL!!

There are a number of reasons why you could have blown the V70 out of the water

He could have an air leak that he has no idea about
He could have any number of mechanical problems going on under his bonnet means he is down on power.
Your driving style makes a big difference too

Or you could just have a good one - some of these cars seem to have an X factor - a completely standard 850 T5 (bar an airfilter) got well over the stock figures on the rollers just last year!

x

DONKEYT5
Thursday 31st March 2005, 17:41
i need to get mine running right and get it on the dyno!! i changed my thermostat and im stillin losing power when i push hard on the go pedal!?

Mrsmopp
Thursday 31st March 2005, 18:02
Have you checked for air leaks hun?

x

Al115
Thursday 31st March 2005, 18:09
I have first-hand evidence that some forces run different ECU software as well. :o


Alastair

DONKEYT5
Thursday 31st March 2005, 18:11
what evidence is that? i need to know!! this is driving me mad!! lol
which forces use what??

DeviantDesign
Thursday 31st March 2005, 18:18
My police spec V70 has a non-standard ECU.

It's the Female Artificial Intelligence ECU (also known as "I've got a headache"). She is a moody bugger who is sometimes very fast and makes me smile, and sometimes just can't be arsed. I have learnt to live with it.

DONKEYT5
Thursday 31st March 2005, 18:19
i have had a mechanic check using some spray stuff, and the engine tickover didnt alter at all, so im still baffled im afraid hun!! :confused:

t5uk
Thursday 31st March 2005, 23:58
Believe me I know the power on Police spec cars is no different; I used to drive a 'firms car' then my own. Uprated HP Police Cars is the stuff of 10yr old boys dreams - it just aint true; brakes were uprated due to weight being carried and the discs warping during pusuits but Engine is bog standard I Promise.

Infact it was the warranty offered by Volvo that made Brit Police buy the vehicles.

splatt
Friday 1st April 2005, 00:58
I have first-hand evidence that some forces run different ECU software as well. :o


Alastair
Everyone is still waiting for this.
:pants:

Goof
Friday 1st April 2005, 01:11
My police spec V70 has a non-standard ECU.

It's the Female Artificial Intelligence ECU (also known as "I've got a headache"). She is a moody bugger who is sometimes very fast and makes me smile, and sometimes just can't be arsed. I have learnt to live with it.
Sounds very familiar! Mine is the same too - some mornings raring to go, others just a bit more sedate ~ probably depends on how I feel that morning too?
And if you ever dare put a passenger in to show them just why you bought an "old farts" car, she just doesn't play ball!
These T5s are canny things...

Wobbly Dave
Friday 1st April 2005, 02:34
Gareth!! me old china!

See one text message is all it takes.

We need a banner - and those in the know, know how deviant you are with them there pixels!!

Apologies for going OT.

Al115
Friday 1st April 2005, 08:22
Everyone is still waiting for this.

Well alright then. :rolleyes2

My own ex-police car has customised ECU software, discovered yesterday when I spent half a day on the rollers and working with a knowedgeable chap with a laptop.

Can't imagine that there can be any stronger evidence than that?


Alastair

Mrsmopp
Friday 1st April 2005, 08:51
My police spec V70 has a non-standard ECU.

It's the Female Artificial Intelligence ECU (also known as "I've got a headache"). She is a moody bugger who is sometimes very fast and makes me smile, and sometimes just can't be arsed. I have learnt to live with it.

YAY :banana: DD is back with us!!! :kiss:

x

monsterdark
Friday 1st April 2005, 09:29
i was at the RR where some of the other guys went last month mines explod auto ME7, i know everyone was saying they didnt run in properly but mine dyno reading was 238bhp, when the book says its only 240, only mod i have is aircone & free flow 2.5 twin exhaust, first time on a RR i went away happy, was listening to all them threads about auto loose up to 40% etc but can people explain my reading theN, will wait till VT get theres up & running & try again might go home sulking then. :crazy:

GUYS: JUST TO REMIND YOU CHAV MY RIDE ON VH1 TONIGHT MIDNIGHT I THINK, LOOKS VERY FUNNY

Mrsmopp
Friday 1st April 2005, 09:49
Gareth!! me old china!

See one text message is all it takes.

We need a banner - and those in the know, know how deviant you are with them there pixels!!

Apologies for going OT.

Dave did you talk him into coming to Avon?

x

DONKEYT5
Friday 1st April 2005, 13:36
Well alright then. :rolleyes2

My own ex-police car has customised ECU software, discovered yesterday when I spent half a day on the rollers and working with a knowedgeable chap with a laptop.

Can't imagine that there can be any stronger evidence than that?


Alastair
and the result???

Al115
Friday 1st April 2005, 13:44
No particular result, because one of the temp sensors was on the blink :mad:

DONKEYT5
Friday 1st April 2005, 14:12
ok, does it run any different with that problem? i am having power loss probs and im tryin to establish what the cause is! just bought a boost gauge and im gonna see if im losing precious boost somewhere
don

Al115
Friday 1st April 2005, 16:49
Yeah it runs pretty poorly - down on power and lumpy at the top end. Having checked the fuelling (which is OK) I'm going to Avon anyway, just to get some practice in!


Alastair

splatt
Friday 1st April 2005, 23:00
Police do a bit of testing, as they are on the road 24/7 they test door hinges/engine oil..etc...perhaps your ECU prog is a test model and was never re set.
What you have to bear in mind is that theese are auctioned without being restored to 'standard' so you may buy with upgraded brakes etc.
As all police traffic cars carry loads of eqt the suspension suffers and is normally upgraded a smidge(stiffened) to account for it, u buy it at auction and get stiffer suspension, u corner/pulll away faster so you think...power..
In all seriousness, You buy an ex police car, it comes with a full history, if it has gone wrong it has been repaired, (at no expense), it has been serviced without fail, and it has been thrashed from new so the engine revs freely...

Whats all the fuss about.?

Do we really think the police have their volvo's chipped at no extra cost on the insurance premium (like we all do) or do they just drive that bit faster/better? :rant:

After_Shock
Friday 1st April 2005, 23:14
As has been said the police make a number of modifications to their cars for the purpose of their jobs, brakes and suspension are the main ones and the police openly admit to using 3.2 V6 Manual Omega's, even though they are not available to the public as they only come with Auto's, the conversions are carried out by a well reputed Vauxhall tuning company.

I have never known police cars have the engine's uprated in anyway to gain performance as they simply buy the correct car for the job, if the fastest of the cars isnt fast enough they call the helicopter, remember these cars even though maintained excellently do have a hard life so need the engines to last as long as standard if not longer so they dont uprate them.

My dad was in the Police and has now retired however most of his mates are still in the force and he took one of them out in my C70 when I had it, the bloke could not believe how fast it was, and he drives an S60 T5 all day. He did offer to have a daft little race jokingly but we thought better of it, I did suggest he could chase me with the blue lights on so it looked real but still a bad idea really!

t-5
Saturday 2nd April 2005, 15:57
i'm only a new member of the forum although i've read it for a while and i keep seeing people talk about ex-plod cars saying that they are serviced regularly and if theres any problems they get all the parts they need regardless of cost.

i'm a serving cop and thats all a load of b***ocks!

plod cars are just about all in really poor condition, they are NEVER serviced on time, theres bits falling off most of them, all the drivers i've met have no respect for the cars, there are supposed to be checks done on the cars before they go out but these are never done.
i know of one occasion where a t5 spent 3 or 4 days running around with only 1 wheel nut in on 1 of the front wheels, and i know of loads of occasions where cars get damaged and used again for weeks and weeks before there repaired.

After_Shock
Saturday 2nd April 2005, 18:44
No idea what force your in but I would suggest you change.

t5uk
Saturday 2nd April 2005, 19:26
Nope,
He is very correct about the servicing etc... It's the same where I am too; cars that should have been written off get put back on the road etc... no good HPI checking for this either as the Police never tick the box on the accident report that would show as a potential loss on the HPI check.
I personally wouldn't touch one with a barge pole but many people are happy.

Al115
Saturday 2nd April 2005, 19:40
This supports what seems to be the general philosophy on buying ex-police Volvos - it's hit and miss. :crazy:

My ex-plod car ran a very respectable time at Avon Park today - they're not all bad! Giles was putting down some good times in his, as well.


Alastair

Tomcat
Saturday 2nd April 2005, 19:52
i'm only a new member of the forum although i've read it for a while and i keep seeing people talk about ex-plod cars saying that they are serviced regularly and if theres any problems they get all the parts they need regardless of cost.

i'm a serving cop and thats all a load of b***ocks!

plod cars are just about all in really poor condition, they are NEVER serviced on time, theres bits falling off most of them, all the drivers i've met have no respect for the cars, there are supposed to be checks done on the cars before they go out but these are never done.
i know of one occasion where a t5 spent 3 or 4 days running around with only 1 wheel nut in on 1 of the front wheels, and i know of loads of occasions where cars get damaged and used again for weeks and weeks before there repaired.


Now I'm upset, I thought that all the forces obeyed the servicing intervals and maintained the cars to the highest standards. That said, I have picked up an awfull lot of really badly mangled police cars recently, so much for carefully driven eh?.

splatt
Saturday 2nd April 2005, 19:55
Like after_shock says, you should change your occupation/location....
Do you really expect people to believe that a traffic cop who deals with crashes all day would quite hapily take a write off out which is unroadworthy???....the one wheel nut thing....excellent...(write off need not be unroadworthy mind, beyond economic repair on a new for old basis is also a write off)
As for the tick box on the accident report...this is not the one that counts.
A specific form is sent to the DVLA (V23) for a write off, it is used by insurers and police alike and is seperate from the accident reports...with national accident recording forms having changed just recently serving police should really know about this.
Imagine the implications on any police force for selling an unroadworthy car (which is illegal unless sold as so)
The write off thing
http://www.abi.org.uk/Public/Consumer/Codes/MotorVehicleSalvage.pdf
hope this helps.
BTW....of course the cars are thrashed about....next time u are in a crash do you want the police to amble down to you ...??? :slap:

After_Shock
Saturday 2nd April 2005, 23:58
To hazard a guess I would say how the cars are looked after would come down to how much money the force will spend on them.

From my dads days in the force the cars naturally got hammered he openly admits to that and blowing a few engines up, taking tyres off rims going round bends too quick etc etc, theirs loads of stories. Anyway when he was in the cars were also maintained to a very good regime as the cars had to last the time, maybes they had more money for this stuff back then I dont know.

In my area they still use some S70 T5's which much be quite old by now and the fact they are still running around means they must have been maintained very well, they even still have a pug 306, how that things starts on a morning I will never know!

t5uk
Sunday 3rd April 2005, 00:15
I am a Police Officer and I personally wouldn't buy an ex Police Car - they aren't that well maintained in my force. I've also crashed some of them and could not believe they were repaired.

t5uk
Sunday 3rd April 2005, 00:21
Like after_shock says, you should change your occupation/location....
Do you really expect people to believe that a traffic cop who deals with crashes all day would quite hapily take a write off out which is unroadworthy???....the one wheel nut thing....excellent...(write off need not be unroadworthy mind, beyond economic repair on a new for old basis is also a write off)
As for the tick box on the accident report...this is not the one that counts.
A specific form is sent to the DVLA (V23) for a write off, it is used by insurers and police alike and is seperate from the accident reports...with national accident recording forms having changed just recently serving police should really know about this.
Imagine the implications on any police force for selling an unroadworthy car (which is illegal unless sold as so)
The write off thing
http://www.abi.org.uk/Public/Consumer/Codes/MotorVehicleSalvage.pdf
hope this helps.
BTW....of course the cars are thrashed about....next time u are in a crash do you want the police to amble down to you ...??? :slap:


Like you said a write off does not mean unroadworthy - beyond economic repair; when you employ mechanics it means a large amount of damage can be repaired - would you want to buy one of these?

With regards to the V23; this is generated by admin who do so from the check box on the accident report - no tick no form.

splatt
Sunday 3rd April 2005, 08:11
How can admin make an assessment on a vehicles condition and then put a V23 in.? (especially without seeing it).
What force r u in?

t5uk
Sunday 3rd April 2005, 16:09
The assesment is not made by admin; the assesment is made by the reporting officer; all the details on the V23 are included in the accident report; admin then complete the V23 from the report if the checkbox on the accident report (Is vehicle likely to be a total loss?) ticked.

t5uk
Sunday 3rd April 2005, 16:12
Read this link:

http://www.car-crime.com/v_23.htm

splatt
Sunday 3rd April 2005, 22:22
so you fill in the v23 on an accident report (basically) and then some admin person fills in a proper V23??

splatt
Sunday 3rd April 2005, 22:23
the link is a bit basic but good for someone who is new to this stuff.

t5uk
Monday 4th April 2005, 10:40
The reason the Police accident report is so complex (around 10 pages for a 2 vehicle RTC) is because the report generates a magnitude of statistics. All the details required for a V23 are included on the report and yes; someone in admin fills out the V23 on our behalf. If we had to do seperate forms for all the seperate departments it would take even longer.

Because the Police do not have an insurance assesor (It's down to the fleet manager) a large number of vehicles that would be written off on Civie Street aren't in Police use. When I say a large number I mean LARGE... most of the Grade 1 vehicles where I work have been involved in what I would consider a serious accident by the time they are sold at auction.

blackrat2
Monday 4th April 2005, 11:07
guys

i too am plod, i have had an R reg, T reg and am now the owner of a W reg phase 2 ex plod car. The R was extremly quick even with 175 thou on the clock , the T was 100 thou and was the slowest thing i have ever driven... as for the W reg this is ex Devon/Cornwall with a new engine 50 thou ago and feels really tight.
It is a lottery, our cars are regularly serviced and looking at the history i got from Devon on my car, this has been really well serviced. I dont think our cars are chipped but that said the first Omegas we got for the Force were really quick but the ones we got afetr that went back on more than one occasion before Vauxhall admitted to doing up the trial cars before we took a contract with them....
Have to say the new six speed cars are great

Wobbly Dave
Monday 4th April 2005, 11:19
:welcome: Blackrat (sounds very 007)

Have you thought of tuning the new one?

blackrat2
Monday 4th April 2005, 20:59
i have to say at this stage yes, i havent made any enqs though...
ref the name couldnt think of anything better at the time, i will get round to changing it sometime

Wobbly Dave
Monday 4th April 2005, 23:16
No the name is fine mate. Pretty cool.

I know some pretty groovy peeps in Bromsgrove who can make your car go really fast by emptying your wallet of any unnecessary cash. It's magic you know. I am talking about HLM Chip Tuning (aka Volvotuning).
RICA is a fab way to go and comparitively cheap for the performance gains.
They have a phase 2 as well which is slowly being turned into a ferrari killer.

t5uk
Tuesday 5th April 2005, 00:03
Blackrat.........met pol traffic?

blackrat2
Tuesday 5th April 2005, 19:40
No mate.... i work Surrey, as i said couldnt think of a name off the cuff despite looking at the site for the last few weeks when i had to give a name thats all i could come up with... to get the plod element in.
Anyway ref getting RIC'D i have read some of the stuff about the full upgrade or just the 280, i am abit tight for money what do you guys suggest?
I have to say the 280 seems to be the one im leaning towards at the moment.

Sp00ky
Friday 8th April 2005, 20:18
something the little lady has picked up on, if, indeed the Police spec are T-5's with a T-5 R ECU... then does this not void your insurance??

Al115
Friday 8th April 2005, 22:49
A good question. An even better question is, if your T5 has a R or other "Police" ECU, and you don't know about it, does it void your insurance???


Alastair

mas
Wednesday 13th April 2005, 19:37
I can only speek for Met and Herts Police cars up to 2000 , cos since then I have had nothing to do with them.

These cars are NOT chipped and do not have non standerd ECUS.

Didnt really want to enter this particular discussion but I know they are not.
The person who mentioned that there may have been some cars on trial with non standerd ECUS may have a point but this wouod have been done without Police knowledge ( or officers evaluating trial cars would have been told) but this would be a rarity if indeed it happened at all.

They do of course have uprated suspension and brakes :smile:

As an aside because it was rather funny I evaluated a Golf VR6 once , part of the bottom end of the car fell out on to the road , at great speed as I was
' evaluating it' !. I think it may have resembled a sump :hilarious

Several others fell apart in other ways as other advanced drivers
'evaluated them' and they were swiftly returned with a

' thanks but no thanks'

Also re the well maintained , that they may be but the reason you see police officers post here that they would not buy an ex plod car is simple.

The method taught by most police driving schools does 'sort of' teach 'respect the car'. BUT the way it is then put in to practice rather more resembles a highly trained thrashing. If someone gave you a 155 mile per hour car and said , you can speed and not get nicked , brake as late as you like
and you wont have to pay for the tires and servicing how much would you respect the car BE HONEST :rally_dri

That's why they are sold off pretty damn quick :borg_ani:

madness
Friday 15th April 2005, 11:35
I would like to add my bit here since i work for a dealer. - The cars are standard police spec from the factory. They do have slightly different spec , but only due to their heavy work load.
The engines ARE completely standard.
We work very closely with our local force and also have contact with volvo special vehicles dept.
the different spec goes no further than a couple of interior changes, the larger of the brake sizes and uprated suspension due to all the items they carry.
This has always been the case, and i am told they are not allowed to modify the cars outside volvo spec, as they have to be approved by the home office.
They rely heavily on the warranty, and if modified this would be void.

Al115
Friday 15th April 2005, 15:05
We can say that most, perhaps nearly all, police cars are built to standard spec. Mine wasn't! And I have it here on my drive to settle any disputes! :troutslap

Don't know how they got Home Office Type Approval though...


Alastair

mailee
Friday 15th April 2005, 18:39
It looks to me as a bystander that the early T5's owned by the police may have had some sort of performance upgrade and indeed been well manitained as far as services go. However given the economic climate of todays cut back policies I would imagine most cars supplied are standard in the respect of performance. Of course forces may be supplied with the latest/fastest standard spec cars to keep up with the new supercars on todays roads but I should imagine that is at the discretion and budget of the various forces around the country and their need for them. Why nowadays would they particularly need a tuned performance car when they can just radio up the Heli and have him pace the offender and road blocks set up? I should imagine most of the decisions of todays police forces as the rest of industry is based upon budget which is much lower than those of yesteryear. I work at a foctory that takes in the Volvo imports before they are destributed throughout the UK so I do have a little knowledge of them, in case you were wondering. Just my few pence worth. :icon_soap

Rooster
Friday 15th April 2005, 19:09
I work at a dealership we get both customers and police cars in to work on and sometimes you seem to just get T5's that standard but seem a dam site quicker than others.

We get a V70 from the police driver training centre in and that is just stupidly fast so i have a feeling thats been play with but from driving them i wouldn't say police cars are played with at all engine wise.

t51995
Saturday 16th April 2005, 21:25
I am a retired police officer and quite interested by the myths I have read on this forum. As far as I am aware, and this obviousy only applies where I worked, the engines on patrol vehicles are not upgraded in any way. Don't forget that police officers are trained to drive well and fast under all conditions, with the maximum concentration and application, so the standard of driving is second to none, although I understand that less time is spent training these days. As for buying an ex police car, I would say it's a lottery unless you can find out a cars history. I have known cars to have new engines fitted, and then the car is auctioned 2 weeks later!
If I purchased one the first thing I would change would be the brakes and tyres, they can really be abused, not only from brakeing and cornering but also from kerbs and pot holes.
As for servicing, I would say it's generally good, most of the drivers know the mechanics and they don't take shortcuts. The best parts are also used.

So if you fancy your chances against a class 1 driver you will need to be pretty good!

G'night all! :B_steerin